Starting with Goldfish Bowl

[Harry Johnson]

I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
heaters.
Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?

Harry

[[email protected]]

GF are high maintenance companions. A cat is waaaaay less work.
GF are not cold water fish. Ingrid

Harry Johnson > wrote:

> I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
>Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
>aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
>heaters.
> Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
>unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
>fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
> Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
>some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
>
>Harry



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MattO]

"Harry Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
> Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
> aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
> heaters.
> Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
> unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
> fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
> Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
> some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
>
> Harry

Hi Harry,
Our first GF was a gift, in a bowl - 5 years ago... it died within a few
months.
Next GF perished too. We didn't know why.
We asked LFS, upgraded to a 3 gal tank with filter (Eclipse system 3) & a
got 2 new goldfish.
These lasted longer but died too.
More fish - more death... ugly slow deaths...
Then we found this newsgroup & studied up, learned about the cycle, started
testing for ammonia, etc...
But small 3G tank was not tenable - unstable temp & chemistry.
We killed several more fish in the 3 gal tank....

Mortified by all that, and on advise of this group (thanks iNgrid) we got a
20G tank, heater, airwands, power filter, etc...
That was better, but we still killed some fish... floaters, dropsy, swim
bladder issues...
Have since become believers in 10G/GF rule, and bare-bottom tank...
Have schlepped many buckets... goldfish are not easy to keep

Some people make the GF bowl thing work, but not in my experience!
If keeping GF, for a sure thing start w/20gal tank and 2 fish max (they
start small but get big fast)
- fuggetabout small GF tank or bowl
If small you need, I suggest you start with some danios or mollies or
guppies...
~ MattO

[Kodiak]

Harry,
I think a Betta Splendins would be perfect for you.
They are tough fish, they can breath air straight from the
surface (labarytnth) and they are very beautiful and intelligent.
You can only keep one by itelf in your bowl. I think he would do
very well in a 2gallon bowl, as long as you age your water in a bucket
for a few days, and change the water twice a week, you should do great.
From waht you describe,spare yourself the grief, stay away from Goldfish
in Goldfish bowls.
....Kodiak


"MattO" > wrote in message
news:M77ac.32610$w54.231474@attbi_s01...
>
> "Harry Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
> > Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
> > aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
> > heaters.
> > Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
> > unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
> > fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
> > Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
> > some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
> >
> > Harry
>
> Hi Harry,
> Our first GF was a gift, in a bowl - 5 years ago... it died within a few
> months.
> Next GF perished too. We didn't know why.
> We asked LFS, upgraded to a 3 gal tank with filter (Eclipse system 3) & a
> got 2 new goldfish.
> These lasted longer but died too.
> More fish - more death... ugly slow deaths...
> Then we found this newsgroup & studied up, learned about the cycle,
started
> testing for ammonia, etc...
> But small 3G tank was not tenable - unstable temp & chemistry.
> We killed several more fish in the 3 gal tank....
>
> Mortified by all that, and on advise of this group (thanks iNgrid) we got
a
> 20G tank, heater, airwands, power filter, etc...
> That was better, but we still killed some fish... floaters, dropsy, swim
> bladder issues...
> Have since become believers in 10G/GF rule, and bare-bottom tank...
> Have schlepped many buckets... goldfish are not easy to keep
>
> Some people make the GF bowl thing work, but not in my experience!
> If keeping GF, for a sure thing start w/20gal tank and 2 fish max (they
> start small but get big fast)
> - fuggetabout small GF tank or bowl
> If small you need, I suggest you start with some danios or mollies or
> guppies...
> ~ MattO
>
>

[Dan M]

Harry... the people in this newsgroup will tell you all kinds of things,
I dont say they are wrong, but they are on the freaky side...

10gallon / GF .... This rule didnt apply to mine, and it lived
more than 8 years in a bowl with 1 complete waterchange / week.

(that was before internet was even here - mid 80's).

I now have 6 GF's on a 10 gallon, its true, they are young. But they are
doing
fine. As soon as they will grow big I will move them to a bigger tank, but
they are ok now as it is. They are happy and dont have any problems. They
came
sick from the pet store, and they fully recovered.

So there you go, another side of the story.





"MattO" > wrote in message
news:M77ac.32610$w54.231474@attbi_s01...
>
> "Harry Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
> > Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
> > aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
> > heaters.
> > Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
> > unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
> > fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
> > Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
> > some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
> >
> > Harry
>
> Hi Harry,
> Our first GF was a gift, in a bowl - 5 years ago... it died within a few
> months.
> Next GF perished too. We didn't know why.
> We asked LFS, upgraded to a 3 gal tank with filter (Eclipse system 3) & a
> got 2 new goldfish.
> These lasted longer but died too.
> More fish - more death... ugly slow deaths...
> Then we found this newsgroup & studied up, learned about the cycle,
started
> testing for ammonia, etc...
> But small 3G tank was not tenable - unstable temp & chemistry.
> We killed several more fish in the 3 gal tank....
>
> Mortified by all that, and on advise of this group (thanks iNgrid) we got
a
> 20G tank, heater, airwands, power filter, etc...
> That was better, but we still killed some fish... floaters, dropsy, swim
> bladder issues...
> Have since become believers in 10G/GF rule, and bare-bottom tank...
> Have schlepped many buckets... goldfish are not easy to keep
>
> Some people make the GF bowl thing work, but not in my experience!
> If keeping GF, for a sure thing start w/20gal tank and 2 fish max (they
> start small but get big fast)
> - fuggetabout small GF tank or bowl
> If small you need, I suggest you start with some danios or mollies or
> guppies...
> ~ MattO
>
>

[MattO]

Hi Dan & Harry
Freaky indeed! nee religious I've heard it said re: 10 gal/GF "rule" ;-)
So much water for such tiny creatures - nonsense?
But I have no reason to exaggerate or persuade others one way or the other,
and no particular allegiances to the alleged "myths & beliefs of the group".
With just 1 tank and 2 big, healthy goldfish, I only speak from my own
experience on the matter. A sample of one.
If I sound like the group, that's because they saved my butt (& my fish)

I know that what Dan says is true - small tanks/bowls work in some cases.
Myself, I have 2 friend who have managed small volumes for years.
1 has a 2 gal bowl, the other a 10G tank, both w/ multiple GF, both going
strong over several years
Both of them think I'm nuts with my 20G tank, filters, test kits, bi-weekly
water changes, etc...
With no mind of their chemistry or temp, infrequent water changes, etc,
they've made it work.
Other friends have had experiences similar to mine, and have benefited from
my advice... go figure

I don't know why it works for some & not for others (me), but it does...
maybe its my tapwater, maybe I overfed... but I didn't have success in small
volumes of water.

And I did not enjoy the learning curve - & hope to spare others the same
grief

Yes, *perhaps* GF can be kept in a small bowl - but for a "sure thing"''....
big volume is the key

Since my early, harsh "education" entering the hobby I've been watching the
posts of newbies on this group for 5 years -
check the google newsgroup archives - lots of examples -
newbies regularly post horror stories similar to my experience. Most that
post here are either just learning or are regulars that almost unanimously
recommend newbies err on the side of caution. At least at first, till they
get a healthy community going.

We all want the same thing - happy fish! And I'm sure there's more than 1
way to get there,
but given Harry's special circumstances, the frequent water changes that I
have found necessary with my GF seemed like too much hassle.
Harry, I still suggest an easier starter fish.

~ MattO

Dan M" > wrote in message news:40691590$1_2@aeinews....
> Harry... the people in this newsgroup will tell you all kinds of things,
> I dont say they are wrong, but they are on the freaky side...
>
> 10gallon / GF .... This rule didnt apply to mine, and it lived
> more than 8 years in a bowl with 1 complete waterchange / week.
>
> (that was before internet was even here - mid 80's).
>
> I now have 6 GF's on a 10 gallon, its true, they are young. But they are
> doing
> fine. As soon as they will grow big I will move them to a bigger tank, but
> they are ok now as it is. They are happy and dont have any problems. They
> came
> sick from the pet store, and they fully recovered.
>
> So there you go, another side of the story.
>
>
>
>
>
> "MattO" > wrote in message
> news:M77ac.32610$w54.231474@attbi_s01...
> >
> > "Harry Johnson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
> > > Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
> > > aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
> > > heaters.
> > > Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
> > > unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
> > > fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
> > > Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
> > > some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
> > >
> > > Harry
> >
> > Hi Harry,
> > Our first GF was a gift, in a bowl - 5 years ago... it died within a few
> > months.
> > Next GF perished too. We didn't know why.
> > We asked LFS, upgraded to a 3 gal tank with filter (Eclipse system 3) &
a
> > got 2 new goldfish.
> > These lasted longer but died too.
> > More fish - more death... ugly slow deaths...
> > Then we found this newsgroup & studied up, learned about the cycle,
> started
> > testing for ammonia, etc...
> > But small 3G tank was not tenable - unstable temp & chemistry.
> > We killed several more fish in the 3 gal tank....
> >
> > Mortified by all that, and on advise of this group (thanks iNgrid) we
got
> a
> > 20G tank, heater, airwands, power filter, etc...
> > That was better, but we still killed some fish... floaters, dropsy, swim
> > bladder issues...
> > Have since become believers in 10G/GF rule, and bare-bottom tank...
> > Have schlepped many buckets... goldfish are not easy to keep
> >
> > Some people make the GF bowl thing work, but not in my experience!
> > If keeping GF, for a sure thing start w/20gal tank and 2 fish max (they
> > start small but get big fast)
> > - fuggetabout small GF tank or bowl
> > If small you need, I suggest you start with some danios or mollies or
> > guppies...
> > ~ MattO
> >
> >
>
>

[Geezer From Freezer]

To be blunt, goldfish that survive in bowls live horrible lives. Lack of oxygen,
no room
to swim, swinging temperatures, poor water quality. Imagine living in a cupboard
for the
rest of your life and having someone feed you through a hole in the door - same
scenario
with a bowl and a goldfish.

10Gallons per goldfish minimum.

Like Ingrid has said (and I have told people this in the past too), Cats (and
dogs) are far
easier to keep.

[Harry Johnson]

"Dan M" > wrote:

>Harry... the people in this newsgroup will tell you all kinds of things,
>I dont say they are wrong, but they are on the freaky side...
>
>10gallon / GF .... This rule didnt apply to mine, and it lived
>more than 8 years in a bowl with 1 complete waterchange / week.
>
>(that was before internet was even here - mid 80's).
>
>I now have 6 GF's on a 10 gallon, its true, they are young. But they are
>doing
>fine. As soon as they will grow big I will move them to a bigger tank, but
>they are ok now as it is. They are happy and dont have any problems. They
>came
>sick from the pet store, and they fully recovered.
>
>So there you go, another side of the story.
>
>
>
>
>
>"MattO" > wrote in message
>news:M77ac.32610$w54.231474@attbi_s01...
>>
>> "Harry Johnson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I'm interested in starting in aquatics in a VERY small way.
>> > Everything I've bought and read on the subject talks about all the
>> > aquarium setups I need to buy, with everything from filters to
>> > heaters.
>> > Whatever happened to just a good old goldfish bowl? Is that
>> > unheard of anymore? I'm disabled and hoping to start with a coldwater
>> > fish with a minimum of maintenance as well as expense.
>> > Am I out of line in hoping to get a basic goldfish bowl with
>> > some goldfish to keep me company during the long nights?
>> >
>> > Harry
>>
>> Hi Harry,
>> Our first GF was a gift, in a bowl - 5 years ago... it died within a few
>> months.
>> Next GF perished too. We didn't know why.
>> We asked LFS, upgraded to a 3 gal tank with filter (Eclipse system 3) & a
>> got 2 new goldfish.
>> These lasted longer but died too.
>> More fish - more death... ugly slow deaths...
>> Then we found this newsgroup & studied up, learned about the cycle,
>started
>> testing for ammonia, etc...
>> But small 3G tank was not tenable - unstable temp & chemistry.
>> We killed several more fish in the 3 gal tank....
>>
>> Mortified by all that, and on advise of this group (thanks iNgrid) we got
>a
>> 20G tank, heater, airwands, power filter, etc...
>> That was better, but we still killed some fish... floaters, dropsy, swim
>> bladder issues...
>> Have since become believers in 10G/GF rule, and bare-bottom tank...
>> Have schlepped many buckets... goldfish are not easy to keep
>>
>> Some people make the GF bowl thing work, but not in my experience!
>> If keeping GF, for a sure thing start w/20gal tank and 2 fish max (they
>> start small but get big fast)
>> - fuggetabout small GF tank or bowl
>> If small you need, I suggest you start with some danios or mollies or
>> guppies...

MattO,

Thanks for the response. Actually I've gotten a great deal of
help over e-mail from people who have seen my post. Enough to convince
me that down the line I might be happier staying with fish but a
different species.
On the whole, I've gotten tons of help, which is what I was
looking for!

Harry

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth Harry Johnson > on Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:26:07
-0500,

As you'll have read, goldfish aren't a good choice for small setups or
bowls. There are some fish which are suited for small tanks, though! I
would strongly recommend that you consider not a bowl but a small
self-contained, easy-to-maintain aquarium (I have in mind an Eclipse 2
or 3 gallon) and a betta or a paradise fish. They're pretty, they're
personable, and they will thrive in smaller tanks.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[MattO]

"Elizabeth Naime" > wrote in message
...
> Quoth Harry Johnson > on Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:26:07
> -0500,
>
> As you'll have read, goldfish aren't a good choice for small setups or
> bowls. There are some fish which are suited for small tanks, though! I
> would strongly recommend that you consider not a bowl but a small
> self-contained, easy-to-maintain aquarium (I have in mind an Eclipse 2
> or 3 gallon) and a betta or a paradise fish. They're pretty, they're
> personable, and they will thrive in smaller tanks.

> no spork.

Right!
I Second Elizabeth's Rx,
While the Marineland Eclipse system 3 was a dungeon for 2 GF it would be a
palace for a lone Betta!
but get a heater & a thermometer- Betta hates temp fluctuations.
~ MattO

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth "MattO" > on Wed, 31 Mar 2004
08:06:57 GMT,

>While the Marineland Eclipse system 3 was a dungeon for 2 GF it would be a
>palace for a lone Betta!

Yeah, I seriously considered boycotting Marineland for putting pictures
of goldfish on that thing. However, I have way too many Emperor filters,
they work great for me, and changing filtration systems on 10 tanks is
more than I can afford to do in a huff.

>but get a heater & a thermometer- Betta hates temp fluctuations.

Paradise fish probably don't like temperature fluctuations, either, but
they do well in cooler temperatures than Betta. This makes them a good
choice for controlled-room-temperature tanks (and even bowls, but most
bowls are just way too small).

Also, I have read elsewhere that the Eclipse systems are somewhat
self-heating from the lights and filter motor. So if I ever get mine set
up (a 'desk fish' is my planned self-reward for IF I ever get this desk
cleared off), I plan to run it empty for a few days with a thermometer
in it and find out.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[MattO]

"Elizabeth Naime" > wrote in message
...
> Quoth "MattO" > on Wed, 31 Mar 2004
> 08:06:57 GMT,
>
> >While the Marineland Eclipse system 3 was a dungeon for 2 GF it would be
a
> >palace for a lone Betta!
>
> Yeah, I seriously considered boycotting Marineland for putting pictures
> of goldfish on that thing. However, I have way too many Emperor filters,
> they work great for me, and changing filtration systems on 10 tanks is
> more than I can afford to do in a huff.
>
> >but get a heater & a thermometer- Betta hates temp fluctuations.
>
> Paradise fish probably don't like temperature fluctuations, either, but
> they do well in cooler temperatures than Betta. This makes them a good
> choice for controlled-room-temperature tanks (and even bowls, but most
> bowls are just way too small).
>
> Also, I have read elsewhere that the Eclipse systems are somewhat
> self-heating from the lights and filter motor. So if I ever get mine set
> up (a 'desk fish' is my planned self-reward for IF I ever get this desk
> cleared off), I plan to run it empty for a few days with a thermometer
> in it and find out.
>
The light acts as a as heater it is true - after light goes off at night
temp drops...
so when you run your temp test, compare first AM reading after all-night
lights-off vs. PM reading after all-day lights-on
if temp swing is > 4-5 deg. F (I think it will be) - I still recommend a
small heater (15-25W)
~ MattO