Can fish have brain damage???

[Magic menagerie]

It's been a bad week for our beloved goldfish, Goldie... Goldie is our oldest
of our 3 left (we started with 6 almost 2 years ago). All was fine with it
until last Thursday, when it started to swim in spirals. A day later, it was
just laying on the bottom and kind of flopping around... It didn't look
good... Then it had an unfortunate event which had it out of the tank for
almost an hour. We thought it was dead, but when we went to wrap it up for
burial, it moved again! OMG! So, I got it in a "sick bucket" right away with
the air stone and it started breathing again. It's nearly darkened gills went
cherry red again, and it started moving more, but still floppy. We had to
leave town for almost two days, but put some food in the bucket. When we came
back, it was swimming normally, so I put it back in the tank. BUT, it doesn't
seem right.... It's eyes don't seem to look at you like the other two fish.
It seems kinda dopey when it moves... When I put food in before, Goldie was
always knocking the others out of the way to eat. Now it just kinda swims a
bit or just bumps against the side and then settles down. Not interested in
food... Can fish suffer from brain damage? Did the time out of the water do
serious eye damage and now it's blind? WHY was it swimming in spirals in the
first place? This is too odd.... The tank levels are pretty good...
nitrates/'trites at 0, little ammonia, ph at 6.8.... Last year we had bad
levels, but due to Queen Ingrid's advise, I now have pothos and philodendrons
suction cupped near the top of the water and they do fine at cleaning the
water, and the fish don't go food binging on them....

I wish there was something we could do for our fishy. Any happy advise for us,
or are Goldie's day numbered?

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Fish can suffer from brain damage yes. It's most likely something else
though. What size tank do you have and how many fish, how often
do you replace the water. Do you have a bubbler and a filter.
How often do you do filter maintenance, and how?
Nitrates at 0? Surely a crash has occured. PH 6.8 - okayish, but I'd try
and slowly raise it to 7-8. What is the temp.

[Magic menagerie]

HI!
The tank is a 50-55 gal, there are 3 six inch goldfish in there. I did a 40%
change last Monday (a coincidental 3 days before the trubs began). I got the
muck siphoned out, and scubbed the sides, bottom and toys of their light layer
of green and brown algae(?)
I usually do 30-40% change every two-ish weeks. (it's a hassle toting buckets
of water around). Have a penguin filter with two charcoal filters. Alternate
rinsing filters of muck weekly (one filter a week to avoid losing too many
"good bios"). Have a 10" bubble stick and an air stone in the tank. Have
pothos ivy and philodendrons suction cupped near the top. They have been there
a few months. (The fish like to swim in and around up there looking for the
hidden food) The bottom doesn't have gravel anymore. It was removed last year.
(I've read enough of Ingrid to know better!) Bottom has some marbles and
creek rocks for decoration. I gently move the rocks and siphon vacuum the muck
out from behind them without stirring it up in the tank. The fishies like to
move the marbles around for fun, and while they are rooting around for lost
food. For other fun, they also have a couple of 2"-3" PVC tubes they like to
swim through...
When I had the levels tested on Friday last, Nitrates/'trites were both at 0,
ph at 6.8, ammonia was low , or as the guy at the LFS said "a bit high for
freshwater, but for goldfish it was fine". Such scientific accuracy... I
think I got a "1" for levels out of him though... The temp is at 72. They
seems to like it. In the summer when it gets much warmer in there, they aren't
too happy... This morning while the other fish go crazy for food, Goldie is
just kinda hanging around... It reminds me of dopey Dory from Nemo... "just
keep swimming". Still seems kinda clueless to what's going on... The other
fish just kinda bump it around while they are swimming... They have no
courtesy at all... Blackfin likes to go under Goldie and bump it from
underneath. Is it trying to be helpful, or just rude? Treasure has some black
streaks on some of its fins, so I may do a mini water change today. There's
some muck behind the rocks again that needs removal... I just feel awful
about Goldie being out of water for almost an hour.... Wish there was
something I could do for it to be well again...

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Black streaks on fins could be ammonia burns that are healing. Get ammonia
to 0 (also get your own test-kits if you can).

Goldie being nudged? hmm sounds like your goldie could be egg bound possibly.
Can you get hold of any medicated food - its possible that might help.
Try salting the tank (aquarium salt only). 1 table spoon per 3-5 gallons or
so, dissolve then add. See if goldie perks up after a few hours.

Anyone else got any suggestions?

[Magic menagerie]

I think it may just be Blackfin... It likes nudging Treasure too... Goldie is
still not eating - not even her fave shrimpies... Just kinda saunters around
in little circles... Can it be so brain damaged it doesn't know to eat
anymore?

I'll do another partial change on the tank. It's cheaper to have the LFS do
the testing. The kits are a bit pricy and they are only a mile away.... If
Goldie doesn't perk up in another dayish, I'll put it back in the bucket and
try to get it to eat... Thanks so far for your help!

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Magic menagerie wrote:
>
> I think it may just be Blackfin... It likes nudging Treasure too... Goldie is
> still not eating - not even her fave shrimpies... Just kinda saunters around
> in little circles... Can it be so brain damaged it doesn't know to eat
> anymore?
>
> I'll do another partial change on the tank. It's cheaper to have the LFS do
> the testing. The kits are a bit pricy and they are only a mile away.... If
> Goldie doesn't perk up in another dayish, I'll put it back in the bucket and
> try to get it to eat... Thanks so far for your help!

What colour is fishies pooh? Also do you have gravel? When fish are ill they
sometimes don't eat. If swallowed a piece of gravel, won't eat also.

[Magic menagerie]

Took the gravel out last year. The other fishies' excrement is normal and
short. Goldie doesn't have any (that I've seen) as since nothing is going in,
nothing comes out.... Did a 30% change again yesterday... Will check the
levels later today....

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Magic menagerie wrote:
>
> Took the gravel out last year. The other fishies' excrement is normal and
> short. Goldie doesn't have any (that I've seen) as since nothing is going in,
> nothing comes out.... Did a 30% change again yesterday... Will check the
> levels later today....

does the ill fish open its mouth at all??

[Magic menagerie]

Yes, it does open its mouth. The gills are pumping too... Just seems to swim
around in a daze though... The others target for the food when fed, but Goldie
"just keeps on swimming" like Dorie from Nemo... (that song is sticking in my
mind) Doesn't notice the food at all...

[Geezer From The Freezer]

try hand feeding

Magic menagerie wrote:
>
> Yes, it does open its mouth. The gills are pumping too... Just seems to swim
> around in a daze though... The others target for the food when fed, but Goldie
> "just keeps on swimming" like Dorie from Nemo... (that song is sticking in my
> mind) Doesn't notice the food at all...

[Magic menagerie]

I've noticed that while Goldie's mouth moves, only one of its gills seems to
open fully. Maybe the lack of air gave it a stroke? I'll take it out of the
tank and hand feed it from the "sick bucket" tomorrow. It's much easier to do
from the bucket than chase it around a 50 gal tank, and I'll know if anything
goes in or out of it....

[MattO]

"Magic menagerie" > wrote in message
...
> I've noticed that while Goldie's mouth moves, only one of its gills seems
to
> open fully. Maybe the lack of air gave it a stroke? I'll take it out of
the
> tank and hand feed it from the "sick bucket" tomorrow. It's much easier
to do
> from the bucket than chase it around a 50 gal tank, and I'll know if
anything
> goes in or out of it....

Loss of motor function to one side of the body (hemiperisis) following a
stroke presents most severely in the extremities (e.g. foot & hand are
weaker than thigh & shoulder in the case of humans). Motor function closest
to body core is typically less affected. In a GF I'd expect fins to be more
severely affected than gills.. Is Goldie's fin movement reduced on affected
side?
~ Matt

[Magic menagerie]

No, other than it's left gill being almost non moving, it seems ok. Fins move
fine. It's in the bucket again with an airstone and tunnel piece. I tried to
get it to eat, but it just spits it out again. Doesn't seem to notice it's
fave shrimpies. I tried to see what was causing the gill cover to "stick", but
can't figure it out. I tried to gently move it, and it seems kinda ok, but then
just closes up again. It was too easy to grab it out of the tank. It's too
passive, and doesn't give much of a struggle... Something is seriously wrong,
I just can't pinpoint it....

[Magic menagerie]

It's been in the sick bucket for almost a day now. I had to change it to a
fresher atmosphere as the bucket from last night was pretty rank by this
morning! WHEW! Still not eating but now it's isolated, can now notice
excrement. Long thin and white. Just proves it's not eating... Ignored the
shrimpies treat from last night. Tried to get it to eat peas or shrimp, but
just clamps up... Stubborn fish... Just swims past food... Left gill still
almost clamped shut (minimal movement)... Don't know why... That's why I was
thinking a stroke? Still too docile and easy to catch, doesn't put up much of
a struggle at all - not like before all of this... Wish I knew how to make it
better.... Makes me crazy...

[[email protected]]

fresh water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons, no additives, dissolve first, add
slowly. change the water more often if there is detectable ammonia in the bucket.
long thin white poops are bacterial maybe eggs mixed in. Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:
>It's been in the sick bucket for almost a day now. I had to change it to a
>fresher atmosphere as the bucket from last night was pretty rank by this
>morning! WHEW! Still not eating but now it's isolated, can now notice
>excrement. Long thin and white. Just proves it's not eating... Ignored the
>shrimpies treat from last night. Tried to get it to eat peas or shrimp, but
>just clamps up... Stubborn fish... Just swims past food... Left gill still
>almost clamped shut (minimal movement)... Don't know why... That's why I was
>thinking a stroke? Still too docile and easy to catch, doesn't put up much of
>a struggle at all - not like before all of this... Wish I knew how to make it
>better.... Makes me crazy...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Why is the gill almost clamped shut? Can I use rock salt (like for ice cream)?
I don't think it has any iodine in it...

[[email protected]]

no idea.
yes, rock salt is best.


(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>Why is the gill almost clamped shut? Can I use rock salt (like for ice cream)?
> I don't think it has any iodine in it...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Goldie is still in the bucket and still not eating... Excrement is long, long,
long (about 3-6") and still white, as expected when you aren't eating...

"You can put a fish in water, but you can't make it eat...."

Got a box of "Dr. Wellfish's Salt". A fancy name for evaporated sea salt...
Goldie feels pretty slimey. Left gill is still clamped. The other one only
works, sad to say, due to an accident that happed over a year ago. Before I
learned from Ingrid NOT to use a net to move fish, I did and it kinda, ahem,
did some right gill damage and tore the outer rim of the cover off... I have
since learned, and only use my hands, or a big cup to scoop them up.

Why does learning have to come with so much guilt for mistakes?

Anyway, should I try epsom salt in the bucket?

[[email protected]]

forget the sea salts... not a good idea. long and white suggest bacterial infection.
keep kanamycin or such in the water. fresh water and a bit of regular salt is all
that can be done right now, altho temp fish with chopped human grade shrimp. Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>Goldie is still in the bucket and still not eating... Excrement is long, long,
>long (about 3-6") and still white, as expected when you aren't eating...
>
>"You can put a fish in water, but you can't make it eat...."
>
>Got a box of "Dr. Wellfish's Salt". A fancy name for evaporated sea salt...
>Goldie feels pretty slimey. Left gill is still clamped. The other one only
>works, sad to say, due to an accident that happed over a year ago. Before I
>learned from Ingrid NOT to use a net to move fish, I did and it kinda, ahem,
>did some right gill damage and tore the outer rim of the cover off... I have
>since learned, and only use my hands, or a big cup to scoop them up.
>
> Why does learning have to come with so much guilt for mistakes?
>
>Anyway, should I try epsom salt in the bucket?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Okie dokes. WIll see if our LFS has the kanamycin. I do have Maracyn and
Maracyn-II, but they didn't seem to work for last year's problems. How about
now? Or, aren't they your faves?

Ususally Goldie scarfs down the baby brine shrimp, but I'll see if I can get
some "people shrimp"... Also, maybe if I get the rock salt, it'll be a hint
for hubby to make some ice cream... ; )


Should I put Goldie back with the other two? If it were me, I know I'd be sick
of swimming in circles in a bucket for days... Also, Treasure, who's in the
tank, has some white bumps on it's tail and fins... Guess it's time for
another water change there... WHY is it this always happens when the temps
start getting warmer?

" Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for
all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make."

- yes, this may be true, but there will be a lot of happy people and fishies
waiting in the hereafter to cheer you in! And, we're all forever grateful for
you in the here-now!....

[Magic menagerie]

The LFS says the kanamycin (or K-mycin) needs to be mixed with food... If
Goldie isn't eating, then how will this help? Or, should I just toss it in the
water anyway?

[[email protected]]

it is a water treatment and I been told one of the few that is absorbed across the
skin. Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>The LFS says the kanamycin (or K-mycin) needs to be mixed with food... If
>Goldie isn't eating, then how will this help? Or, should I just toss it in the
>water anyway?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

The joys of goldfish... I put Goldie back with the others a couple of days
ago, after doing a 25% water change in the tank. They all swam around together
and it seemed like old times until feeding time. The other two ate, and Goldie
didn't. Still having long white excrement. Then the next day, Goldie was a
loner again, and yesterday, it was just kinda a floating kinda dazed in the
middle of the tank. Didn't look good... Got the old sick bucket again and
plopped Goldie back in it. It swam oddly for a few hours, kinda flopping
around and not really being able to control its balance. Put in a Maracyn-II
tablet (for internal bacteria infections), which I have on hand, a teasppon of
aquarium salt and a 1/4 tsp of epsom salt. A few hours later, it was
improving, and able to control balance, but not eating... Such a stubborn
fish... I wonder what is going on in the tank that's causing the troubles...
I'll have levels tested today...

[Magic menagerie]

Could the plants be causing the trubs? I have the pothos and philodendrons in
there, but they've been there for several months and haven't been a problem
before...

fishy photos:
http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/g3fish.jpg
http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/g6fish.jpg
http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/gtfish.jpg
http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/gtfish2.jpg

[[email protected]]

call Jo Ann. 1-251-649-4790

(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>Could the plants be causing the trubs? I have the pothos and philodendrons in
>there, but they've been there for several months and haven't been a problem
>before...
>
>fishy photos:
>http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/g3fish.jpg
>http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/g6fish.jpg
>http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/gtfish.jpg
>http://members.aol.com/magicmenagerie/gtfish2.jpg



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Something fishy is going on.... The other day, before Goldie went back to the
sick bucket, The LFS guy said the levels were fine... Today, I had levels
tested (same LFS, different guy), and he used litmus strips and said the levels
are:

(2-3 fish/50-55 gal tank)
ammonia 6.0 (OUCH!) (it was 1.0)
nitrate 80 (was 0)
Nitrite 0
ph, less than 6.2 (was 6.8)
alk. 0
hardness 75

Needless to say, now EVERYONE is out of the tank while I clean it and
stabilize. I took out about half the water, cleaned the bigger rocks, rinsed
the ickies out of the filter and walls/floor, added CYCLE and some fishy plant
food for the pothos and philodendron. It's probably due for a new carbon
filter ayway...Will have levels tested again tomorrow...

Now for more questions:
1)We have a sensometer on the side that is supposed to detect ammonia levels.
I know it works, but WHY did it not alert when the levels are this high?

2)We also have a tropical tank (10 gal, 2 tiger barbs) in the same room, and
it's water hardness was at **200**!? The water all comes out of the same
faucet, so did the age of the water and such change the hardness?

I'll call when I have enough pin money. I'm afraid she'll chew me out over
some unintentional abouse/neglect on my part...

[[email protected]]

you are adding fertilizers to this tank?????
I am afraid she is the only one can untangle this. suck it up.
Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:
some fishy plant
>food for the pothos and philodendron.
>I'll call when I have enough pin money. I'm afraid she'll chew me out over
>some unintentional abouse/neglect on my part...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Every now and then I add some plant fertilizer. It's a 0.15-0-0 for aquatic
plants. It has a tiny bit of chilateted (sp?) iron in it. The LFS says the
plants suck it out of the water and need more...

[Magic menagerie]

I called Jo Ann. She sounds like a pretty fun person in her own way... : )
She said Goldie is seemingly more sensitive to the toxic levels in the tank -
than the ammonia sensor inside the tank. She said when fish swim in the "death
spiral", it's due to high toxicity. This would also explain why it was doing
better once I got it out of the tank. She said it can take a couple of weeks
to clear it out of Goldie's system, which is probably why it's still pretty
docile to hold... So I have a busy task ahead of me, emptying the tank, getting
extra charcoal, and basically cleaning a messy goldfish house... It looked
nice... It just went bad very fast....Will keep you posted...

[Yorkshire Pudding]

On 04 May 2004 00:45:16 GMT, (Magic menagerie)
wrote:

>It's been a bad week for our beloved goldfish, Goldie... Goldie is our oldest
>of our 3 left (we started with 6 almost 2 years ago). All was fine with it
>until last Thursday, when it started to swim in spirals. A day later, it was
>just laying on the bottom and kind of flopping around... It didn't look
>good... Then it had an unfortunate event which had it out of the tank for
>almost an hour. We thought it was dead, but when we went to wrap it up for
>burial, it moved again! OMG! So, I got it in a "sick bucket" right away with
>the air stone and it started breathing again. It's nearly darkened gills went
>cherry red again, and it started moving more, but still floppy. We had to
>leave town for almost two days, but put some food in the bucket. When we came
>back, it was swimming normally, so I put it back in the tank. BUT, it doesn't
>seem right.... It's eyes don't seem to look at you like the other two fish.
>It seems kinda dopey when it moves... When I put food in before, Goldie was
>always knocking the others out of the way to eat. Now it just kinda swims a
>bit or just bumps against the side and then settles down. Not interested in
>food... Can fish suffer from brain damage? Did the time out of the water do
>serious eye damage and now it's blind? WHY was it swimming in spirals in the
>first place? This is too odd.... The tank levels are pretty good...
>nitrates/'trites at 0, little ammonia, ph at 6.8.... Last year we had bad
>levels, but due to Queen Ingrid's advise, I now have pothos and philodendrons
>suction cupped near the top of the water and they do fine at cleaning the
>water, and the fish don't go food binging on them....
>
>I wish there was something we could do for our fishy. Any happy advise for us,
>or are Goldie's day numbered?


Having read the follow ups to the original post WTF hasn't anybody
suggested putting this poor fish out of it's misery instead of
subjecting it to the experimental suggestions that have ensued.
Please, please, please end this fishes misery now. It's obviously not
feeding correctly and has other difficulties. I don't think it's a
case of "Can fish have brain damage?", more like a case of "Can the
posters have brain damage?"

YP

[Donald K]

Yorkshire Pudding <> wrote:

> I don't think it's a
> case of "Can fish have brain damage?", more like a case of "Can the
> posters have brain damage?"

Frequently, although I still follow our old dorm rule...

"No Pink Floyd before midnight."

-D
--
"Ahhhhh, ahh-ahh, ahhhhhhh-a-haaaaa"

[Magic menagerie]

Jo Ann said I needed a second filter. She said goldfish need 3 gallons per
inch. I have 3-6" fish so this is about the most our 50-55 gallon tank can
handle. Can't afford another filter, but have emptied the tank about 1/3 to
1/2 and the ammonia levels are slowly coming down. Also got some ammo-carb
chips to reduce the ammonia. Took out the live plants as the ammonia was
killing them off.

Goldie still gets changed from buckets daily. Seems to help. Its eyes aren't
bugging out anymore and are starting to recess nicely. It's also starting to
eat again and actually comes to get the food. Jo Ann said to only feed them at
night and not several times a day. She said overfeeding leads to over ammonia.
(but they looked hungry!)

So, I am hoping to get the tank livable again soon as we are going on vacation
for a week and there won't be anyone to change Goldie from bucket to bucket
every day... It's looking better today. Tank sting is down from the 6.0 of
two days ago (HOW did it get that high so fast?) to 2.0 yesterday, to 1.0
today. I'm guessing the daily changes are helping as are the ammo-carbon
chips... I have the filter stuffed with them...

Looks like there may be hope to keep all three fishies.. : )

[Magic menagerie]

Thanks to Ingrid and Jo Ann, miracles CAN happen! Goldie is about well enough
to join the others. It's eating well, and swimming well too. Seems it's more
sensitive to the tank's ammonia than the others and it got toxic shock. I've
been working my backend off every day for about a month getting the tank
pristine again and nursing Goldie back to health.

"Yorkshire Pudding":
Try explaining to your little boy that you have to kill his beloved fish just
because it is sick... Then they wonder that if they get sick, you may kill them
off too... Thank goodness yours wasn't the only advise on these boards...
Your comments truly have proven your point of "Can the posters have brain
damage"...

[[email protected]]

GF always act and look like they are starving. If you cant get the tank "online"
then consider getting a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub and put the fish in there. but
remember, while on vacation you dont feed the fish and the water will be healthier
for it. Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>Jo Ann said I needed a second filter. She said goldfish need 3 gallons per
>inch. I have 3-6" fish so this is about the most our 50-55 gallon tank can
>handle. Can't afford another filter, but have emptied the tank about 1/3 to
>1/2 and the ammonia levels are slowly coming down. Also got some ammo-carb
>chips to reduce the ammonia. Took out the live plants as the ammonia was
>killing them off.
>
>Goldie still gets changed from buckets daily. Seems to help. Its eyes aren't
>bugging out anymore and are starting to recess nicely. It's also starting to
>eat again and actually comes to get the food. Jo Ann said to only feed them at
>night and not several times a day. She said overfeeding leads to over ammonia.
>(but they looked hungry!)
>
>So, I am hoping to get the tank livable again soon as we are going on vacation
>for a week and there won't be anyone to change Goldie from bucket to bucket
>every day... It's looking better today. Tank sting is down from the 6.0 of
>two days ago (HOW did it get that high so fast?) to 2.0 yesterday, to 1.0
>today. I'm guessing the daily changes are helping as are the ammo-carbon
>chips... I have the filter stuffed with them...
>
>Looks like there may be hope to keep all three fishies.. : )



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Magic menagerie]

Can the fish live for over a week-ish with no food??? We would be gone from
June 2-12th. I was thinking of one of those battery operated fish feeders.
They kinda look like a pencil sharpener. I can't use the compressed tablets,
as the ones that say "good for up to 14 days" only last about 3...

The ammonia levels are coming down nicely. But the LFS said the salt level was
through the roof. This may be due to the Epsom salts I put in per Jo Ann. It
DID help the fish though and Treasure doesn't have any healing marks anymore.
I'm guessing it's time to get it out though...

While my hubby is away today, (when the cat's away, the fish can play) I am
going to purge the tank. It will probably take less time to cycle new water
than it would the try and correct bad water...

Even though the little "porkinhogs" scarf down food, they obviously don't
don't need all of us to feed them... ; )

The plants. I took the plants out. Do you think that once the ammonia started
to go up, it was killing the plants and they too started to add ammonia,
causing a death spiral in the tank? It seems once I got the plants out the
levels came down faster. It could have also been the constant water changes
too... This delicate balance is a harder science than it seems...

[Yorkshire Pudding]

On 21 May 2004 12:03:54 GMT, (Magic menagerie)
wrote:

>Thanks to Ingrid and Jo Ann, miracles CAN happen! Goldie is about well enough
>to join the others. It's eating well, and swimming well too. Seems it's more
>sensitive to the tank's ammonia than the others and it got toxic shock. I've
>been working my backend off every day for about a month getting the tank
>pristine again and nursing Goldie back to health.
>
> "Yorkshire Pudding":
>Try explaining to your little boy that you have to kill his beloved fish just
>because it is sick... Then they wonder that if they get sick, you may kill them
>off too... Thank goodness yours wasn't the only advise on these boards...
>Your comments truly have proven your point of "Can the posters have brain
>damage"...

Ever heard of "White lies"? or "Fish Heaven" ? I for one, when I was a
child, never thought my parents would kill me if I was ill after
they'd had to have one of our dogs put to sleep, I was told the reason
for their decision and saw sense. I hate to see any creature suffer
and sincerley hope that that Goldie makes a full recovery, I also
apologise for any offence my post may have caused to you.

Regards

YP

[[email protected]]

no problem at all for a couple weeks. forget the battery operated feeders, or worse,
the tablets. they foul the water and people come back to dead fish.
a hungry GF is a healthy GF. seriously, the fish will do fine with no food. water
will be in better shape.
I remember somebody else saying they thought their plants had made the ammonia spike.
yeah, it could be plant breaking down... no real idea. I sure wouldnt think plants
could "turn" on ya, but looks like they did. Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:

>Can the fish live for over a week-ish with no food??? We would be gone from
>June 2-12th. I was thinking of one of those battery operated fish feeders.
>They kinda look like a pencil sharpener. I can't use the compressed tablets,
>as the ones that say "good for up to 14 days" only last about 3...
>
>The ammonia levels are coming down nicely. But the LFS said the salt level was
>through the roof. This may be due to the Epsom salts I put in per Jo Ann. It
>DID help the fish though and Treasure doesn't have any healing marks anymore.
>I'm guessing it's time to get it out though...
>
> While my hubby is away today, (when the cat's away, the fish can play) I am
>going to purge the tank. It will probably take less time to cycle new water
>than it would the try and correct bad water...
>
>Even though the little "porkinhogs" scarf down food, they obviously don't
>don't need all of us to feed them... ; )
>
>The plants. I took the plants out. Do you think that once the ammonia started
>to go up, it was killing the plants and they too started to add ammonia,
>causing a death spiral in the tank? It seems once I got the plants out the
>levels came down faster. It could have also been the constant water changes
>too... This delicate balance is a harder science than it seems...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Dark Phoenix]

"Magic menagerie" > wrote in message
...
>
> The plants. I took the plants out. Do you think that once the ammonia
started
> to go up, it was killing the plants and they too started to add ammonia,
> causing a death spiral in the tank? It seems once I got the plants out
the
> levels came down faster. It could have also been the constant water
changes
> too... This delicate balance is a harder science than it seems...

Yes, too much ammonia can kill plants. It 'burns' them, turning them brown.
And as they rot, they release all their stored nitrogen. At least, I'm
assuming that water plants act the same as terrestrial ones.


--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

Error. Install universe and reboot.

[Magic menagerie]

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!

Life for the fishies is looking a little better.

Yesderday, I purged the tank and took out about 80% of the water. Left enough
in so all the base rocks and plastic plants were still covered so as not to
lose too many of the possible biobugs living there. Got the live plants rinsed
off, and reloaded the tank. In the Emperor 280 filter, took one of the filters
out (it was getting old) and replaced it with a stuffed stocking with carbon,
and another one with ammo-carb chips... Let it set for a few hours and had the
levels tested at the LFS. Water is very clear, and all was fine. Put all the
fishies back in. Treasure and Blackfin are enjoying it and Goldie is still
cautious, but eating... Today, tested ammo levels, still looking good, Goldie
still cautious. It's looking better though and bug-eyes are back to normal.

Still going to keep an eye on it though. I'm feeding them less, and they seem
to notice as they are really going for the pothos ivy and sucking the bejeebers
out of it... Can't win. Either I overfeed them and the tank ammo-spikes, or I
don't and they try to herbicide my plants... They make you crazy... I'll be
watching the tank daily to see if it starts to cycle due to the amount of water
I took out... Thanks again everyone!

[[email protected]]

yeah, algae grows on submerged part of plants and the itty bitty critter GF like to
eat is around the algae so the fish are "cleaning" the plants.
Ingrid

(Magic menagerie) wrote:
they are really going for the pothos ivy and sucking the bejeebers
>out of it... Can't win.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.