Water problems?

[Devin]

I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of things
to try.

I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media tray in
the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every week.
I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
(bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9 gallons of
the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat with
airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to water.
Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some polished
river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1 live
plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up. Hood
tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30 at
night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.

Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia 0(Zero)ppm;
Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.

5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last year),
one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches overall.

Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I think
I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water. Plants
and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of the
white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).

Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running, and
a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past week
and a half and readings stay as listed above.

Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets in
the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the time.
When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for an
hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck in
her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it and
removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides
the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
veining, or any other problems.

I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the tank
and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work here.
In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on the
water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
earlier.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Devin

[[email protected]]

dump the charcoal. use polyester batting and dont replace, just rinse out in treated
water.
what ARE your salt levels?
get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be leaching bleach
or ???
dont ever break down the tank and clean that thoroughly unless you got dying fish.
the walls have considerable biobug activity.
where were the fish while the tank was going thru this?
what is your alkalinity?
dont use coppersafe.
I would try 50% water changes for 3 days in a row and see if everyone is booking.
dont feed for 1 day and then only very small amounts of high quality food. see how
they are acting after 24 hours. report back. Ingrid

"Devin" > wrote:
>I have a 40 gallon tank.
Emperor 280 filter
charcoal cartridge
extra media tray filled with floss
24" bubblebar
change 6-9 gallons of the water every week
1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to water.
polished river rocks
4 small silk 1 large silk plant,1 live plant.
1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.
>
Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia 0(Zero)ppm;
>Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart).
>5 goldfish in tank, 2 small (only an inch long, hatched last year),
>one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches overall.
>
>Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I think
>I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
>total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
>with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water. Plants
>and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
>several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
>Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
>with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of the
>white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).
>
>Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running, and
>a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
>Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past week
>and a half and readings stay as listed above.
>
>Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets in
>the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
>When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
>first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the time.
>When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for an
>hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
>last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck in
>her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it and
>removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides
>the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
>veining, or any other problems.
>
>I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
>showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the tank
>and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
>should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work here.
>In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
>medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on the
>water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
>earlier.
>Devin
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MartinOsirus]

"get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be leaching
"
- I find this is one of the biggest problems with goldfish tanks. Far better
off to have an empty tank - no gravel - no plastic plants etc - gives fish more
swimming room and allows for better water quality

[Kodiak]

All that bleaching and stripdown cleaning.
Then your main fish is OK for a day or two, then he starts showing signs.
Sounds like your tank is cycling, I know yur tests are showing ok,
but draining, scrubbing, bleaching, hot water, etc, that's no good unless
you have a serious parasite or other problem. After doing this, you really
should
see an Ammo/Nitrite spike after 10/20 days. If your tests aren't registering
something
is wrong with the test kits, or the method used.

How many days did you wait after the main bleaching/cleaning and before you
reintroduced fish?

As Ingrid said, 30-50% water changes every other day
(aged, dechlorinated, temperature matched), if there's anything bad in the
tank, it should clear up (get diluted) in a week or so. Salt will help your
fish with the Nitrite spike.

....Kodiak


"Devin" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
> everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of
things
> to try.
>
> I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
> cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media tray
in
> the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every week.
> I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
> (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9 gallons
of
> the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat with
> airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to
water.
> Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some polished
> river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1 live
> plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
Hood
> tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30 at
> night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.
>
> Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia
0(Zero)ppm;
> Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
> Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.
>
> 5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last
year),
> one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
overall.
>
> Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
think
> I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
> total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
> with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
Plants
> and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
> several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
> Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
> with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of
the
> white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).
>
> Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running,
and
> a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
> Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past
week
> and a half and readings stay as listed above.
>
> Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets
in
> the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
> When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
> first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the time.
> When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for
an
> hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
> last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck
in
> her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it and
> removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
Besides
> the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
> veining, or any other problems.
>
> I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
> showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
tank
> and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
> should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
here.
> In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
> medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on
the
> water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
> earlier.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Devin
>
>

[Devin]

The items that were cleaned with bleached were soaked in fresh water and
rinsed over a dozen times and re-introduced after a week.

It is not cycling, the test kits work as I've detected problems in the last
month with a 6 gallon tank I had set up for a week or so. It showed the
Nitrite and Ammonia spike just fine and then the nitrates when they kicked
in.

I use an Emperor filter with the bio-wheel. There have always been enough
bio bugs that stay in that thing that I never have cycling problems. I keep
monitoring the levels, but the tank never cycles.

"Kodiak" > wrote in message
...
> All that bleaching and stripdown cleaning.
> Then your main fish is OK for a day or two, then he starts showing signs.
> Sounds like your tank is cycling, I know yur tests are showing ok,
> but draining, scrubbing, bleaching, hot water, etc, that's no good unless
> you have a serious parasite or other problem. After doing this, you really
> should
> see an Ammo/Nitrite spike after 10/20 days. If your tests aren't
registering
> something
> is wrong with the test kits, or the method used.
>
> How many days did you wait after the main bleaching/cleaning and before
you
> reintroduced fish?
>
> As Ingrid said, 30-50% water changes every other day
> (aged, dechlorinated, temperature matched), if there's anything bad in the
> tank, it should clear up (get diluted) in a week or so. Salt will help
your
> fish with the Nitrite spike.
>
> ...Kodiak
>
>
> "Devin" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
> > everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of
> things
> > to try.
> >
> > I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
> > cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media
tray
> in
> > the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every
week.
> > I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
> > (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9
gallons
> of
> > the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat
with
> > airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to
> water.
> > Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some polished
> > river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1
live
> > plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
> Hood
> > tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30
at
> > night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.
> >
> > Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia
> 0(Zero)ppm;
> > Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
> > Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.
> >
> > 5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last
> year),
> > one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
> overall.
> >
> > Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
> think
> > I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
> > total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the
tank
> > with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
> Plants
> > and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed
over
> > several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air
dried.
> > Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
> > with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of
> the
> > white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).
> >
> > Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running,
> and
> > a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
> > Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past
> week
> > and a half and readings stay as listed above.
> >
> > Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He
gets
> in
> > the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
> > When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
> > first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
time.
> > When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for
> an
> > hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish
die
> > last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck
> in
> > her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
and
> > removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
> Besides
> > the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
> > veining, or any other problems.
> >
> > I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
> > showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
> tank
> > and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that
I
> > should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
> here.
> > In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
> > medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on
> the
> > water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
> > earlier.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> > Devin
> >
> >
>
>

[Devin]

Will do. I'll do a 50% change today, take out the plants and other items.
I think the rocks should be fine as I don't bleach clean them (I was in
error on the first post), they're smooth river stones from the pet store, so
I only have to wipe them down with a paper towel and rinse to get rid of
alage growth.

Fish were in two other small tanks I have during the cleaning, two 10 gallon
tanks that I let set for 2 days with bubbler prior. All water was tested
prior to moving them over.

Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I've read
everything from 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons up to 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons
and none of them seem to agree (salt packages, websites, books and
magazines). So, I split the difference. Levels should be exactly that, as
I top off the tank with fresh water before removing water with waterchange,
and then I replace with aged water with the 1.5 tablespoons per 10 gallons.

Why no charcoal? Just curious.

NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings, it
becomes pretty stained.

Thanks for all of the advice, as usual.

Devin

> wrote in message
...
> dump the charcoal. use polyester batting and dont replace, just rinse out
in treated
> water.
> what ARE your salt levels?
> get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be
leaching bleach
> or ???
> dont ever break down the tank and clean that thoroughly unless you got
dying fish.
> the walls have considerable biobug activity.
> where were the fish while the tank was going thru this?
> what is your alkalinity?
> dont use coppersafe.
> I would try 50% water changes for 3 days in a row and see if everyone is
booking.
> dont feed for 1 day and then only very small amounts of high quality food.
see how
> they are acting after 24 hours. report back. Ingrid
>
> "Devin" > wrote:
> >I have a 40 gallon tank.
> Emperor 280 filter
> charcoal cartridge
> extra media tray filled with floss
> 24" bubblebar
> change 6-9 gallons of the water every week
> 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to water.
> polished river rocks
> 4 small silk 1 large silk plant,1 live plant.
> 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
> temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.
> >
> Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia 0(Zero)ppm;
> >Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart).
> >5 goldfish in tank, 2 small (only an inch long, hatched last year),
> >one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
overall.
> >
> >Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
think
> >I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
> >total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
> >with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
Plants
> >and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
> >several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
> >Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
> >with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of
the
> >white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).
> >
> >Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running,
and
> >a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
> >Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past
week
> >and a half and readings stay as listed above.
> >
> >Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets
in
> >the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
> >When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
> >first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
time.
> >When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for
an
> >hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
> >last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck
in
> >her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
and
> >removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
Besides
> >the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
> >veining, or any other problems.
> >
> >I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
> >showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
tank
> >and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
> >should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
here.
> >In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
> >medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on
the
> >water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
> >earlier.
> >Devin
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MartinOsirus]

defintely replace the batting - you want clean batting in there! - how ofter -
just depends. some every 2 weeks; some monthly; some with each water change -
depends on tank size and bioload.

[GiveMeABMW]

defintely replace the batting - you want clean batting in there! - how ofter -
just depends. some every 2 weeks; some monthly; some with each water change -
depends on tank size and bioload.
>>>

I read somewhere that it takes a month for the good bugs to build up on your
filter material. So...I suppose logic follows that you should replace the
batting at most once per month.

[[email protected]]

there is no one salt level that is perfect, anything up to 0.1% is fine (1 tablespoon
per 5 gallons).... but it is best to slowly move up to that salt level and 1 teaspoon
is fine when a person doesnt KNOW what the natural salt level is in their water!
people often have salt levels of 0.05% naturally, so adding less is better.
salt tests are very important to prevent "salt creep" which is the accumulation of
salts to higher and higher levels in the tank. example:
10 gallon tank, 2 gallons water evaporate but salt doesnt
remove water leaving 5 gallons behind, add 5 gallons + salt for 5 gallons.
that is salt creep. no salt should be added for the evaporated salt. not to mention
natural salt levels will creep faster. it is even more likely to occur with small
water changes. without a tester good idea to do big water changes once in a while
and add no salt at all.

charcoal is just useless after a couple days in a tank with GF because GF produce so
much wastes. it just isnt needed.

Batting loaded with biobugs looks brownish. you are throwing the colonies away just
when they are forming up nicely. only toss batting when it begins to cut down on the
water flow. and then only 1/2 and put in new to cycle before tossing it all.

what is your alkalinity?



"Devin" > wrote:
>Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
>Why no charcoal? Just curious.
>NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings, it
>becomes pretty stained.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Devin]

That all makes sense.

I actually do one of my water changes every month with no salt just for the
reasons you stated. I've thought of picking up a salinity meter, but
they're really expensive (even on eBay) and I just can't fit it into the
budget until I get back to work.

It sounds to me like what I should do is get another of the "media
containers" for my Emperor filter and just keep two of them in there, both
with batting. That way if I have to throw out one of them due to being
clogged, the other one will still have been in there for several weeks.
I'll order it from them this week.

I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit for
it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in there)
to replace the silk ones I removed.

FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and the
Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and rinsed
before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.

Devin

> wrote in message
...
> there is no one salt level that is perfect, anything up to 0.1% is fine (1
tablespoon
> per 5 gallons).... but it is best to slowly move up to that salt level and
1 teaspoon
> is fine when a person doesnt KNOW what the natural salt level is in their
water!
> people often have salt levels of 0.05% naturally, so adding less is
better.
> salt tests are very important to prevent "salt creep" which is the
accumulation of
> salts to higher and higher levels in the tank. example:
> 10 gallon tank, 2 gallons water evaporate but salt doesnt
> remove water leaving 5 gallons behind, add 5 gallons + salt for 5 gallons.
> that is salt creep. no salt should be added for the evaporated salt. not
to mention
> natural salt levels will creep faster. it is even more likely to occur
with small
> water changes. without a tester good idea to do big water changes once in
a while
> and add no salt at all.
>
> charcoal is just useless after a couple days in a tank with GF because GF
produce so
> much wastes. it just isnt needed.
>
> Batting loaded with biobugs looks brownish. you are throwing the colonies
away just
> when they are forming up nicely. only toss batting when it begins to cut
down on the
> water flow. and then only 1/2 and put in new to cycle before tossing it
all.
>
> what is your alkalinity?
>
>
>
> "Devin" > wrote:
> >Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
> >Why no charcoal? Just curious.
> >NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings,
it
> >becomes pretty stained.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

pond salt test kit by aquarium pharmaceuticals.
alkalinity is measure of buffering and ability to resist swings in pH ... big swings
will harm GF.
put a pinch of the food in a glass of tank water and check for ammonia. some food
release it directly into the tank (good for fishless cycling tho)
if you can see GF poop, you are overfeeding. also, rinse filters once a week whether
they need it or not to get excess food/poop out which is just sitting there rotting
and fouling the tank.
it is not recommended to feed live or dried or frozen type foods to indoor tank fish.
however, somebody did a test found zapping food for 30 seconds in microwave killed
the cooties. Ingrid

"Devin" > wrote:
I've thought of picking up a salinity meter,
>I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit for
>it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in there)
>to replace the silk ones I removed.
>FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and the
>Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
>At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and rinsed
>before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.
>Devin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Devin]

I grabbed a strip test kit earlier today. It tested the following:

PH 7.2
Alkalinity (KH) 80 ppm
Total Hardness (GH) 75
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

I must have been overfeeding by your definition, I can see waste at times in
there. I had a hard time deciding how much to feed them, as a lot of places
say "as much as they will eat in 2 minutes". Well, my fish are swimming
piggies and would eat a 5 pound roast in 2 minutes! I'm cutting them back.
I'll also cut down the frozen food and try zapping it as well. They won't
be happy with that, though, they love that stuff.

I also got a new bubble bar today and will replace that tonight, to make
sure it doesn't have anything in it.

I guess the bio-wheel in the Emperor's doesn't keep enough bio-bugs in it?

Devin

> wrote in message
...
> pond salt test kit by aquarium pharmaceuticals.
> alkalinity is measure of buffering and ability to resist swings in pH ...
big swings
> will harm GF.
> put a pinch of the food in a glass of tank water and check for ammonia.
some food
> release it directly into the tank (good for fishless cycling tho)
> if you can see GF poop, you are overfeeding. also, rinse filters once a
week whether
> they need it or not to get excess food/poop out which is just sitting
there rotting
> and fouling the tank.
> it is not recommended to feed live or dried or frozen type foods to indoor
tank fish.
> however, somebody did a test found zapping food for 30 seconds in
microwave killed
> the cooties. Ingrid
>
> "Devin" > wrote:
> I've thought of picking up a salinity meter,
> >I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit
for
> >it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in
there)
> >to replace the silk ones I removed.
> >FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and
the
> >Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
> >At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and
rinsed
> >before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.
> >Devin
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[T]

Would a de-chlorinantor work to neutralize the bleach/chlorine?? I think it
would work to remove any of the bleach that might have been remaining.. As
far as tearing a tank apart. I resist, due to the microbes that their bio
filtration job. The only thing I bleach out from my tanks is my corals (
these are in the Mbuna tank's ). I use the typical "sponge" reconmended by
the filter manufacter, but only toss them once the sponge is so plugged I
can not rinse them any more... And yes, they get a weekly or bi weekly
rinsing. In my * on the goldie rubber maid * AQ 300 I have yet to toss the
sponge from starting a tank 3 monthes back, even though, it is full of tiny
snails..I wonder if my loaches would like to hang in the filter for a
while... Sounds like you have been fortunant not to ever notice the tank
cycling, sometimes can happen so quickly you never notice..

Happy Fish Keeping..

Tim
"Devin" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> The items that were cleaned with bleached were soaked in fresh water and
> rinsed over a dozen times and re-introduced after a week.
>
> It is not cycling, the test kits work as I've detected problems in the
last
> month with a 6 gallon tank I had set up for a week or so. It showed the
> Nitrite and Ammonia spike just fine and then the nitrates when they kicked
> in.
>
> I use an Emperor filter with the bio-wheel. There have always been enough
> bio bugs that stay in that thing that I never have cycling problems. I
keep
> monitoring the levels, but the tank never cycles.
>
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> ...
> > All that bleaching and stripdown cleaning.
> > Then your main fish is OK for a day or two, then he starts showing
signs.
> > Sounds like your tank is cycling, I know yur tests are showing ok,
> > but draining, scrubbing, bleaching, hot water, etc, that's no good
unless
> > you have a serious parasite or other problem. After doing this, you
really
> > should
> > see an Ammo/Nitrite spike after 10/20 days. If your tests aren't
> registering
> > something
> > is wrong with the test kits, or the method used.
> >
> > How many days did you wait after the main bleaching/cleaning and before
> you
> > reintroduced fish?
> >
> > As Ingrid said, 30-50% water changes every other day
> > (aged, dechlorinated, temperature matched), if there's anything bad in
the
> > tank, it should clear up (get diluted) in a week or so. Salt will help
> your
> > fish with the Nitrite spike.
> >
> > ...Kodiak
> >
> >
> > "Devin" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
> > > everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of
> > things
> > > to try.
> > >
> > > I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
> > > cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media
> tray
> > in
> > > the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every
> week.
> > > I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
> > > (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9
> gallons
> > of
> > > the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat
> with
> > > airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to
> > water.
> > > Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some
polished
> > > river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1
> live
> > > plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
> > Hood
> > > tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30
> at
> > > night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.
> > >
> > > Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia
> > 0(Zero)ppm;
> > > Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
> > > Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.
> > >
> > > 5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last
> > year),
> > > one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
> > overall.
> > >
> > > Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
> > think
> > > I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since
last
> > > total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the
> tank
> > > with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
> > Plants
> > > and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed
> over
> > > several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air
> dried.
> > > Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is
done
> > > with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one
of
> > the
> > > white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).
> > >
> > > Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar
running,
> > and
> > > a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
> > > Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over
past
> > week
> > > and a half and readings stay as listed above.
> > >
> > > Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He
> gets
> > in
> > > the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the
bottom.
> > > When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on
he
> > > first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
> time.
> > > When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages
for
> > an
> > > hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish
> die
> > > last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea
stuck
> > in
> > > her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
> and
> > > removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
> > Besides
> > > the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries,
fin
> > > veining, or any other problems.
> > >
> > > I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
> > > showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
> > tank
> > > and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing
that
> I
> > > should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
> > here.
> > > In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding
CopperSafe
> > > medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests
on
> > the
> > > water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I
listed
> > > earlier.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any suggestions.
> > >
> > > Devin
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

the 2 minute recommendation is fine for single tailed fish, altho the food goes in
and comes out pretty fast without all getting digested and then it just fouls the
water. but for fancies overfeeding is deadly.
correct, biowheels are good for trops, but GF are soooo dirty. Ingrid

"Devin" > wrote:
>I must have been overfeeding by your definition, I can see waste at times in
>there. I had a hard time deciding how much to feed them, as a lot of places
>say "as much as they will eat in 2 minutes". Well, my fish are swimming
>piggies and would eat a 5 pound roast in 2 minutes! I'm cutting them back.
>I'll also cut down the frozen food and try zapping it as well. They won't
>be happy with that, though, they love that stuff.
>I guess the bio-wheel in the Emperor's doesn't keep enough bio-bugs in it?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Devin]

Thank you to all for the advice. My fat boy Charlie has perked up and is
back to his old self (there's a photo of him on this page
http://www.devinjpoore.com/photo.html , big orange and white fish on the
bottom row of photos).

Now I have to figure out what was causing the problems in the water. I've
cut out the frozen shrimp and blood worms for the last week, and will give
it to them only occasionaly from now on, being sure to microwave it first.
I'm pretty sure I was overfeeding, and having problems with the bio filter,
so now I know better. I'm also keeping out the silk plants as I have found
some water plants they will not eat.

thanks again,

Devin