Veiltail tail problem

[Jan Sacharuk]

A couple weeks back things got really busy at work, and I let the
water quality in the tank slip. The ammonia and nitrites stayed at
zero, but nitrates elevated to over 80ppm, and alkalinity and pH
dropped.

We noticed that the veiltails were having issues with their tails. The
little one had a section of his tail that appears folded over and sort
of 'pasted' shut. It has small blood vessel streaks in it. As well,
both fish have slightly white tips to their tails now. The tips look
kind of cottony, but it doesn't appear to be a growth; the white tips
look like the tail has been abraded, or perhaps scabbed or
something. From the images of finrot that we've seen, this doesn't
appear to be it.

The fish are in otherwise good health. They eat well, are active (when
people come to talk to them. These fish seem to crave attention. When
nobody is around, they'll just slowly drift around and nibble at
plants). They have no growths or damage anywhere on their many bodies,
and their anal ports aren't red or anything. Their poop appears to be
fine, too.

The damage to the tails doesn't seem to have gotten any worse. Once we
noticed that the fish might be in danger, we went to 20% - 30% water changes
once every 2 days. The water quality is spot on right now, but I'm
still doing 20% water changes every 2 - 3 days for another 5 or 6 days
just to be sure.

Oh, one other thing: the bigger one seems a little skittish. Come
feeding time, he'll rush back behind a rock, swim out, eat a few
sinking pellets or sinking flakes, then rush back behind the rock for
a bit. Once food has stopped being added to the tank, he'll come out
and graze from the gravel. I recalled that acidosis can cause fish to
become more jumpy, but he doesn't have any other symptoms, and at this
point the water is too clean for acidosis.

Any advice? I've looked through all the possible afflictions, and I
can't seem to find one that matches. Did I maybe catch a case of
finrot early and just beat it back by improving the water conditions?

JS

--
========================= ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no spoon."

[Happy'Cam'per]

The high Nitrates will 'burn' their fins, your correction of the water
parameters have slowed it down, their fins will heal. I recommend another
water change just to be sure Nitartes are very low.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Jan Sacharuk" > wrote in message
...
> A couple weeks back things got really busy at work, and I let the
> water quality in the tank slip. The ammonia and nitrites stayed at
> zero, but nitrates elevated to over 80ppm, and alkalinity and pH
> dropped.
>
> We noticed that the veiltails were having issues with their tails. The
> little one had a section of his tail that appears folded over and sort
> of 'pasted' shut. It has small blood vessel streaks in it. As well,
> both fish have slightly white tips to their tails now. The tips look
> kind of cottony, but it doesn't appear to be a growth; the white tips
> look like the tail has been abraded, or perhaps scabbed or
> something. From the images of finrot that we've seen, this doesn't
> appear to be it.
>
> The fish are in otherwise good health. They eat well, are active (when
> people come to talk to them. These fish seem to crave attention. When
> nobody is around, they'll just slowly drift around and nibble at
> plants). They have no growths or damage anywhere on their many bodies,
> and their anal ports aren't red or anything. Their poop appears to be
> fine, too.
>
> The damage to the tails doesn't seem to have gotten any worse. Once we
> noticed that the fish might be in danger, we went to 20% - 30% water
changes
> once every 2 days. The water quality is spot on right now, but I'm
> still doing 20% water changes every 2 - 3 days for another 5 or 6 days
> just to be sure.
>
> Oh, one other thing: the bigger one seems a little skittish. Come
> feeding time, he'll rush back behind a rock, swim out, eat a few
> sinking pellets or sinking flakes, then rush back behind the rock for
> a bit. Once food has stopped being added to the tank, he'll come out
> and graze from the gravel. I recalled that acidosis can cause fish to
> become more jumpy, but he doesn't have any other symptoms, and at this
> point the water is too clean for acidosis.
>
> Any advice? I've looked through all the possible afflictions, and I
> can't seem to find one that matches. Did I maybe catch a case of
> finrot early and just beat it back by improving the water conditions?
>
> JS
>
> --
> ========================= ========================
> Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
> Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> "There is no spoon."

[[email protected]]

do you have a little salt in the water?

Jan Sacharuk > wrote:

>A couple weeks back things got really busy at work, and I let the
>water quality in the tank slip. The ammonia and nitrites stayed at
>zero, but nitrates elevated to over 80ppm, and alkalinity and pH
>dropped.
>
>We noticed that the veiltails were having issues with their tails. The
>little one had a section of his tail that appears folded over and sort
>of 'pasted' shut. It has small blood vessel streaks in it. As well,
>both fish have slightly white tips to their tails now. The tips look
>kind of cottony, but it doesn't appear to be a growth; the white tips
>look like the tail has been abraded, or perhaps scabbed or
>something. From the images of finrot that we've seen, this doesn't
>appear to be it.
>
>The fish are in otherwise good health. They eat well, are active (when
>people come to talk to them. These fish seem to crave attention. When
>nobody is around, they'll just slowly drift around and nibble at
>plants). They have no growths or damage anywhere on their many bodies,
>and their anal ports aren't red or anything. Their poop appears to be
>fine, too.
>
>The damage to the tails doesn't seem to have gotten any worse. Once we
>noticed that the fish might be in danger, we went to 20% - 30% water changes
>once every 2 days. The water quality is spot on right now, but I'm
>still doing 20% water changes every 2 - 3 days for another 5 or 6 days
>just to be sure.
>
>Oh, one other thing: the bigger one seems a little skittish. Come
>feeding time, he'll rush back behind a rock, swim out, eat a few
>sinking pellets or sinking flakes, then rush back behind the rock for
>a bit. Once food has stopped being added to the tank, he'll come out
>and graze from the gravel. I recalled that acidosis can cause fish to
>become more jumpy, but he doesn't have any other symptoms, and at this
>point the water is too clean for acidosis.
>
>Any advice? I've looked through all the possible afflictions, and I
>can't seem to find one that matches. Did I maybe catch a case of
>finrot early and just beat it back by improving the water conditions?
>
>JS



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Jan Sacharuk]

In article >, wrote:
> do you have a little salt in the water?

No, I never got into the habit of adding salts to the water, mainly
because I didn't know what I was doing with them. I figured I should
leave well enough alone until something indicated to me that I should
change my ways. Should I be adding salts to the water?

Jan

--
========================= ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And I descend from grace, in arms of undertow.
I will take my place, in the great below.
- "The Great Below", NIN

[Jan Sacharuk]

In article >, Happy'Cam'per wrote:
>
> The high Nitrates will 'burn' their fins, your correction of the water
> parameters have slowed it down, their fins will heal. I recommend another
> water change just to be sure Nitartes are very low.

That's interesting.

When I rescued these fish (the other owners moved away, and the fish
were left behind in a house that some friends bought) the nitrates
were over 300ppm (at least, it was beyond the measuring abilities of
any of the test kits that I bought) and I didn't see anything like
this on them. I'll keep trying to get the nitrates down more though;
no harm in that.

Thanks,

Jan

--
========================= ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And I descend from grace, in arms of undertow.
I will take my place, in the great below.
- "The Great Below", NIN

[[email protected]]

add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons, no additives, dissolve first, add slowly.
this is minimal just in case your water has significant salt levels already. Ingrid

Jan Sacharuk > wrote:

>In article >, wrote:
>> do you have a little salt in the water?
>
>No, I never got into the habit of adding salts to the water, mainly
>because I didn't know what I was doing with them. I figured I should
>leave well enough alone until something indicated to me that I should
>change my ways. Should I be adding salts to the water?
>
>Jan



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

sometimes fish can stand slowly increasing levels of wastes... OTOH, they may be
sensitized to it now. but ragged fins is almost always water quality problem.
Ingrid

Jan Sacharuk > wrote:

>In article >, Happy'Cam'per wrote:
>>
>> The high Nitrates will 'burn' their fins, your correction of the water
>> parameters have slowed it down, their fins will heal. I recommend another
>> water change just to be sure Nitartes are very low.
>
>That's interesting.
>
>When I rescued these fish (the other owners moved away, and the fish
>were left behind in a house that some friends bought) the nitrates
>were over 300ppm (at least, it was beyond the measuring abilities of
>any of the test kits that I bought) and I didn't see anything like
>this on them. I'll keep trying to get the nitrates down more though;
>no harm in that.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jan



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Jan,

You had the right instincts about the salt. Leave the
salt out of the water. It doesn't help that much in
light concentrations and it never goes away unless you
do massive water changes with taking water out of the
tank and replacing it. Concentrate on good water
quality. Nitrates are really not all that serious,
although some fish seem to more effected by its
presence than others. The pH crashing is a much more
serious problem that nitrates would ever be. I take it
that you don't have a good plant growth in your tank.
You may want to consider putting some philodendron in
your tank and let it grow around the tank with its
roots in the water. The philly will assist in keeping
the nitrates at a low level in the tank.

HTH

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------

Jan Sacharuk wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
>
>>do you have a little salt in the water?
>
>
> No, I never got into the habit of adding salts to the water, mainly
> because I didn't know what I was doing with them. I figured I should
> leave well enough alone until something indicated to me that I should
> change my ways. Should I be adding salts to the water?
>
> Jan
>

[Jan Sacharuk]

> presence than others. The pH crashing is a much more
> serious problem that nitrates would ever be. I take it
> that you don't have a good plant growth in your tank.
> You may want to consider putting some philodendron in
> your tank and let it grow around the tank with its
> roots in the water. The philly will assist in keeping
> the nitrates at a low level in the tank.

Actually, that tank has FANTASTIC plant groth. I have some hornwort
and a fairly large hygrophila in there. I think part of the problem
may have been some odd algal buildups on some of the plant leaves and
ornaments. When we took out the ornament and cleaned it, the algal mat
was slimy and kind of looked like it may have been dead or rotting
somehow (I'm no botanist or biologist, so I have no idea what was
going on, really).

I think getting rid of a lot of that 'weird' algae (did I mention that
it was black, not green?) may have helped the tank out.

Thanks,

Jan

--
========================= ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Black Dahlia: Program-Icebreaker-Killer-1MU-Cost 10-Power 5
"She broke my heart - but at least she showed it to me first."