View Full Version : Goldfish PH
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 04:54 AM
I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the PH
was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the tap
is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred PH
for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
water change midweek to bring this down again.
Geezer From The Freezer
July 19th 04, 09:45 AM
Bill Stock wrote:
>
> I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the PH
> was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the tap
> is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred PH
> for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
> the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>
> The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
> surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
> water change midweek to bring this down again.
Bill,
How often do you do maintenance to your tank such as changing some water and how
much?
Do you have gravel? If so do you vaccuum it? PH crash can be caused by rotting
material
such as plants, food or even dead fish.
Geezer From The Freezer
July 19th 04, 11:38 AM
Bill Stock wrote:
>
> I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the PH
> was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the tap
> is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred PH
> for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
> the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>
> The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
> surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
> water change midweek to bring this down again.
Bill,
How often do you do maintenance to your tank such as changing some water and how
much?
Do you have gravel? If so do you vaccuum it? PH crash can be caused by rotting
material such as plants, food or even dead fish.
Mick Manford
July 19th 04, 12:44 PM
The high nitrates might have contributed to your problem.
Aim for 7.5. Anything between 7 and 8.5 is generally ok. The main
thing is to try to get PH stable rather than moving around.
You could use some bicarbonate of soda to buffer things temporarily
while you look for something more permenant. Tufa rock is another
possibility.
The cause of the crash is that your biobugs use carbonate while
dealing with Ammonia and nitrite turning it into nitrate.
Eventually the water becomes depleted of carbonates and you get a very
rapid ph drop. Aside from buffering you should look at your water
change regime and either change more water or more often.
Nitrates builing up and PH crash is a sign to me of too little water
changing.
You may now have weakened your fish opening them up to various
nasties. Keep an eye on them and be prepared to treat if something
secondary pops up. Wouldn't hurt to have some medicated food on
standby
"Bill Stock" > wrote in message rs.com>...
> I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the PH
> was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the tap
> is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred PH
> for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
> the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>
> The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
> surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
> water change midweek to bring this down again.
if you got gravel, that is the source of rotting organics that are acidic. dissolved
CO2 wont drop pH past 6.5.
you got adequate buffer, something is pushing the pH lower.
no, coral is not recommended for Goldfish tanks. get organic dolomitic limestone.
but in this case you need to do a complete cleaning of the gravel. see here for how
to clean it out
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#GRAVEL
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#REMOVING
Ingrid
"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
>clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the PH
>was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the tap
>is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred PH
>for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
>the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>
>The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
>surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
>disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
>water change midweek to bring this down again.
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 03:26 PM
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Bill Stock wrote:
> >
> > I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> > clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh,
the PH
> > was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the
tap
> > is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the
preferred PH
> > for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add
to
> > the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
> >
> > The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of
a
> > surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> > disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing
another
> > water change midweek to bring this down again.
>
> Bill,
>
> How often do you do maintenance to your tank such as changing some water
and how
> much?
> Do you have gravel? If so do you vaccuum it? PH crash can be caused by
rotting
> material such as plants, food or even dead fish.
I do a 30%+ water change every week to 10 days. Powerfilter gets cleaned and
reflossed every two weeks. Gravel gets Python'd every water change. Although
there are some weeks the gravel still looks dirty after a change, this week
it looked very good.
The last of my Water Hyancinths went south when I reduced the light to keep
the temps down. I suspect this is the source of the Nitrate rise. I will
have some Hornwort in there soon to help with the Nitrates.
Geezer From The Freezer
July 19th 04, 03:28 PM
Bill,
When you say you clean the filter every 2 weeks. How do you clean it?
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 03:32 PM
"Mick Manford" > wrote in message
...
> The high nitrates might have contributed to your problem.
>
> Aim for 7.5. Anything between 7 and 8.5 is generally ok. The main
> thing is to try to get PH stable rather than moving around.
>
> You could use some bicarbonate of soda to buffer things temporarily
> while you look for something more permenant. Tufa rock is another
> possibility.
Any idea how much per day for a 55 gal? I don't want to shock the boys.
>
> The cause of the crash is that your biobugs use carbonate while
> dealing with Ammonia and nitrite turning it into nitrate.
>
> Eventually the water becomes depleted of carbonates and you get a very
> rapid ph drop. Aside from buffering you should look at your water
> change regime and either change more water or more often.
I do a 35%+ change every week to 10 days. Power Filter cleaned and flossed
avery two weeks. PreFilters cleaned every week as well. Gravel vacuumed
every week.
>
> Nitrates builing up and PH crash is a sign to me of too little water
> changing.
>
I think the demise of my Water Hyancinths brought this on.
> You may now have weakened your fish opening them up to various
> nasties. Keep an eye on them and be prepared to treat if something
> secondary pops up. Wouldn't hurt to have some medicated food on
> standby
>
>
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
rs.com>...
> > I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> > clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh,
the PH
> > was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the
tap
> > is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the
preferred PH
> > for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add
to
> > the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
> >
> > The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of
a
> > surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> > disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing
another
> > water change midweek to bring this down again.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 03:45 PM
> wrote in message
...
> if you got gravel, that is the source of rotting organics that are acidic.
dissolved
> CO2 wont drop pH past 6.5.
> you got adequate buffer, something is pushing the pH lower.
> no, coral is not recommended for Goldfish tanks. get organic dolomitic
limestone.
> but in this case you need to do a complete cleaning of the gravel. see
here for how
> to clean it out
I've been considering emptying the gravel to give it a thorough wash. I also
wanted to inspect under the RUGF plates.
I was considering using a media bag full of crushed coral/dolomite so the GF
can't eat it. I'll have to use some baking soda for now to stabilze things.
I hope I haven't lost all my good bacteria.
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#GRAVEL
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#REMOVING
> Ingrid
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote:
> >I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> >clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the
PH
> >was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the
tap
> >is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred
PH
> >for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
> >the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
> >
> >The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
> >surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> >disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
> >water change midweek to bring this down again.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.
Tom L. La Bron
July 19th 04, 04:20 PM
Bill,
How deep is the gravel over your RUGF plates, it should
be at least 2 inches in depth over the plates.
Tom L.L.
---------------------------------------
Bill Stock wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>if you got gravel, that is the source of rotting organics that are acidic.
>
> dissolved
>
>>CO2 wont drop pH past 6.5.
>>you got adequate buffer, something is pushing the pH lower.
>>no, coral is not recommended for Goldfish tanks. get organic dolomitic
>
> limestone.
>
>>but in this case you need to do a complete cleaning of the gravel. see
>
> here for how
>
>>to clean it out
>
>
> I've been considering emptying the gravel to give it a thorough wash. I also
> wanted to inspect under the RUGF plates.
>
> I was considering using a media bag full of crushed coral/dolomite so the GF
> can't eat it. I'll have to use some baking soda for now to stabilze things.
> I hope I haven't lost all my good bacteria.
>
>
>
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#GRAVEL
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#REMOVING
>>Ingrid
>>
>>"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>>
>>>I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
>>>clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the
>
> PH
>
>>>was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the
>
> tap
>
>>>is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred
>
> PH
>
>>>for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
>>>the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>>>
>>>The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
>>>surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
>>>disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
>>>water change midweek to bring this down again.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 04:49 PM
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Bill,
>
> When you say you clean the filter every 2 weeks. How do you clean it?
The filter as an AC500, with one large sponge, some filter floss (Walmart
stuffing) and usually a bag of Activated carbon.
I change the floss every two weeks, although it's never really that dirty.
The carbon and the sponge get swished in a bucket of aquarium water.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 04:51 PM
"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Bill,
>
> How deep is the gravel over your RUGF plates, it should
> be at least 2 inches in depth over the plates.
>
> Tom L.L.
> ---------------------------------------
Gravel is about 3" in the back and 2" in the front. Although it occaionsally
looks like a moonscape, between my cleaning and the GF digging.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 05:00 PM
"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
.rogers.com...
> I went to do my weekly water change and I thought the tank looked pretty
> clean. So I decided to test the water and save myself some work. Woh, the
PH
> was in the basement (5.5-) and KH was non existent! The water out of the
tap
> is 7.5 PH with a KH of 140. So what caused the drop? What's the preferred
PH
> for these guys 7.5? I guess I'll have to find a suitable buffer to add to
> the gravel. I gather crushed coral is the preferred buffer.
>
> The Nitrates were also too high, somewhere around 80+, which is less of a
> surprise as I noticed an Algae increase last week. I'm currently
> disinfecting some new plants to solve this problem. I'll be doing another
> water change midweek to bring this down again.
OK, I put 1/2 tsp of Baking Soda in the tank (55 G). The PH went from ~5.5
to ~6.5, it's really hard to tell with these test strips. The KH went from
nothing to about 300! GF still seem OK, tried to eat the test strip before
I could pull it out.
I'd like to go to 7.5 eventually, how long should I wait before bumping up
the PH again? I think I'll go with a 1/4 tsp this time. Once I get the
numbers up I will add a permanent buffer.
I think I'll pull half the gravel out and give it a wash.
yes. good bacteria die off when pH drops. sorry. Ingrid
"Bill Stock" > wrote:
I'll have to use some baking soda for now to stabilze things.
>I hope I haven't lost all my good bacteria.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
rule of thumb is up to 7.0 not big problem. above only 0.2 units per day.
down to 7.0 likewise not big problem, below only 0.2 units per day.
dont pull out the gravel with the fish in the tank.
Ingrid
"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>OK, I put 1/2 tsp of Baking Soda in the tank (55 G). The PH went from ~5.5
>to ~6.5, it's really hard to tell with these test strips. The KH went from
>nothing to about 300! GF still seem OK, tried to eat the test strip before
>I could pull it out.
>
>I'd like to go to 7.5 eventually, how long should I wait before bumping up
>the PH again? I think I'll go with a 1/4 tsp this time. Once I get the
>numbers up I will add a permanent buffer.
>
>I think I'll pull half the gravel out and give it a wash.
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 09:02 PM
Ingrid,
I wanted to ask you what you're using for dolomitic limestone? Got a brand
name or a source? Is this just organic lawn lime?
> wrote in message
...
> yes. good bacteria die off when pH drops. sorry. Ingrid
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote:
> I'll have to use some baking soda for now to stabilze things.
> >I hope I haven't lost all my good bacteria.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.
Bill Stock
July 19th 04, 10:45 PM
> wrote in message
...
> rule of thumb is up to 7.0 not big problem. above only 0.2 units per day.
> down to 7.0 likewise not big problem, below only 0.2 units per day.
> dont pull out the gravel with the fish in the tank.
> Ingrid
I see. Problem is these damn test strips increment by .5 and even that's a
challenge to read.
Too late for the gravel. I netted half out and washed it in declorinated
water, then did the other half. It really did not look very dirty. Mostly
black water, which is the colour or the gravel and or activated carbon.
I also did a small water change and Nitrates are around 40 now. PH somewhere
between 6.5 - 7.
I found the "natural" Dolomitic Limestone at the nursery down the road, so
I'll add that once I bump the PH up a bit more. I think I'll test this stuff
in a cup before I add a media bag to the tank. How fast will this stuff
leach out anyway? If I put it in a tank at 7.5, will the PH jump to 8.2 very
quickly?
Thanks for the help.
> "Bill Stock" > wrote:
> >OK, I put 1/2 tsp of Baking Soda in the tank (55 G). The PH went from
~5.5
> >to ~6.5, it's really hard to tell with these test strips. The KH went
from
> >nothing to about 300! GF still seem OK, tried to eat the test strip
before
> >I could pull it out.
> >
> >I'd like to go to 7.5 eventually, how long should I wait before bumping
up
> >the PH again? I think I'll go with a 1/4 tsp this time. Once I get the
> >numbers up I will add a permanent buffer.
> >
> >I think I'll pull half the gravel out and give it a wash.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.
Geezer From The Freezer
July 20th 04, 09:29 AM
Bill Stock wrote:
>
> "Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > When you say you clean the filter every 2 weeks. How do you clean it?
>
> The filter as an AC500, with one large sponge, some filter floss (Walmart
> stuffing) and usually a bag of Activated carbon.
>
> I change the floss every two weeks, although it's never really that dirty.
> The carbon and the sponge get swished in a bucket of aquarium water.
Ok, if it ain't dirty don't clean it. Only clean the filter when the flow slows
down.
I bought mine from Jo Ann Burke. Now I bought the liquid calcium from her since
walmart quit stocking the dolomitic limestone down in alabama. however, garden
stores usually have dolomitic limestone and it is check by putting a handful into a
gallon of water, mix and leave it over night, mix and check pH. the "right stuff"
doesnt take the pH over 8. dolomite isnt the right stuff, slaked lime is deadly.
Ingrid
"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>I wanted to ask you what you're using for dolomitic limestone? Got a brand
>name or a source? Is this just organic lawn lime?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
do some more big water changes and get the nitrates down below 20 ppm.
definitely test everything out before using. Jo Ann would put the limestone into the
tank at each water change cause she has pH 5.6 water or so. but you can just leave
this in the tank ... in a bare bottom tank it sorta looks like beach sand.
BTW, the right stuff looks a little off white with darker bits in it.
the pH shouldnt jump up quickly and should NOT go higher than pH 8 or so. Ingrid
"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>I also did a small water change and Nitrates are around 40 now. PH somewhere
>between 6.5 - 7.
>
>I found the "natural" Dolomitic Limestone at the nursery down the road, so
>I'll add that once I bump the PH up a bit more. I think I'll test this stuff
>in a cup before I add a media bag to the tank. How fast will this stuff
>leach out anyway? If I put it in a tank at 7.5, will the PH jump to 8.2 very
>quickly?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
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