help, ill goldfish

[Leon]

Hi everyone,
I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
sudden sick? Thanks.

Leon

[Donald K]

Leon wrote:

> Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
> sudden sick?

Do a 50% water change with treated, temperature matched water and see if
that perks 'em up.

Not everything that makes the water go icky gets tested for...

-Donald
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Leon]

Donald K > wrote in message >...
> Leon wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
> > sudden sick?
>
> Do a 50% water change with treated, temperature matched water and see if
> that perks 'em up.
>
> Not everything that makes the water go icky gets tested for...
>
> -Donald

Thanks for the reply Donald. I did two 30% water changes after I saw
them sick and they are still unresponsive at the bottom. I want to
feed them but they won't come up for anything, very frustrating.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Lack of oxygen? 10 gallons is really to small for 3 goldfish.
You should be looking to upgrade that to at least 30 gallons.
They could be suffering internal problems. What is their pooh like
is it white and stringy?

What is your maintenance regime? How often and how much water do
you normally replace? Do you use a water conditioner too?

[[email protected]]

continue to do 50% water changes, add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. cloudy eyes
is not fungus, it is a thickened slime coat due to toxic water conditions. adding
that stuff just made the water more toxic.
you got gravel? read about gravel and how to clean and/or remove the gravel here
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#essentials
Ingrid
(Leon) wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
>They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
>so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
>tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
>eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
>of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
>cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
>come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
>small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
>called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
>and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
>store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
>think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
>to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
>tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
>they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
>sudden sick? Thanks.
>
>Leon



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Leon]

Thanks for the replies geezer and doc solo.

The fish pooh was white and stringy right before they became ill. I
had never seen that before and thought I had worms in my tank. I
didn't notice any pooh afterwards because they weren't eating. I
usually do 25-30% water changes every 2 weeks with a siphon. I do
have gravel at the bottom of the tank. 30 gallons of tank for only 7
inches worth of fish (3+2+2) seems like a bit much. This is my first
tank so I would've never bought a 30 gal. tank on my first try. I
need to learn the ropes (obviously) before I step up to the big
leagues. I haven't been checking my water (PH, ammonia, nitrates) as
often as I should, but that will change after this incident. I am
using a water conditioner (the kind that takes out the chlorine in the
water) when I add water during a water change. Should I be using a
conditioner in addition to the one above? I added some sea salt and
some pills (anti-fungal and antibiotic). Something must have worked
because this morning they came up for food. They seem to be doing
better now (at least they're eating), still a little cloudiness around
the eyes though. I gave them the anti-fungal pill b/c I was told
cloudy eyes are a fungus. Is this incorrect? If so, please let me
know. Thanks.

Leon


wrote in message >...
> continue to do 50% water changes, add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. cloudy eyes
> is not fungus, it is a thickened slime coat due to toxic water conditions. adding
> that stuff just made the water more toxic.
> you got gravel? read about gravel and how to clean and/or remove the gravel here
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#essentials
> Ingrid
> (Leon) wrote:
> >Hi everyone,
> >I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
> >They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
> >so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
> >tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
> >eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
> >of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
> >cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
> >come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
> >small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
> >called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
> >and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
> >store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
> >think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
> >to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
> >tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
> >they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
> >sudden sick? Thanks.
> >
> >Leon
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

dont use sea salt, that is for marine fish. use plain water softener crystal rock
salt or kosher salt with no additives.
white and stringy isnt good poop. (well the page looks down) but it means
overfeeding and/or bacteria.
water is changed as often and as much as needed to keep nitrate levels at or below 20
ppm.
quit adding the medications. they foul the water and are doing nothing since you
havent actually diagnosed a problem. lots and lots of fresh water for the next 2
weeks and they will come around. Ingrid

(Leon) wrote:

>Thanks for the replies geezer and doc solo.

>The fish pooh was white and stringy right before they became ill. I
>had never seen that before and thought I had worms in my tank. I
>didn't notice any pooh afterwards because they weren't eating. I
>usually do 25-30% water changes every 2 weeks with a siphon. I do
>have gravel at the bottom of the tank. 30 gallons of tank for only 7
>inches worth of fish (3+2+2) seems like a bit much. This is my first
>tank so I would've never bought a 30 gal. tank on my first try. I
>need to learn the ropes (obviously) before I step up to the big
>leagues. I haven't been checking my water (PH, ammonia, nitrates) as
>often as I should, but that will change after this incident. I am
>using a water conditioner (the kind that takes out the chlorine in the
>water) when I add water during a water change. Should I be using a
>conditioner in addition to the one above? I added some sea salt and
>some pills (anti-fungal and antibiotic). Something must have worked
>because this morning they came up for food. They seem to be doing
>better now (at least they're eating), still a little cloudiness around
>the eyes though. I gave them the anti-fungal pill b/c I was told
>cloudy eyes are a fungus. Is this incorrect? If so, please let me
>know. Thanks.
>
>Leon
>
>
wrote in message >...
>> continue to do 50% water changes, add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. cloudy eyes
>> is not fungus, it is a thickened slime coat due to toxic water conditions. adding
>> that stuff just made the water more toxic.
>> you got gravel? read about gravel and how to clean and/or remove the gravel here
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#essentials
>> Ingrid
>> (Leon) wrote:
>> >Hi everyone,
>> >I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
>> >They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
>> >so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
>> >tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
>> >eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
>> >of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
>> >cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
>> >come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
>> >small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
>> >called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
>> >and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
>> >store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
>> >think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
>> >to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
>> >tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
>> >they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
>> >sudden sick? Thanks.
>> >
>> >Leon
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

wrote:
>
> dont use sea salt, that is for marine fish. use plain water softener crystal rock
> salt or kosher salt with no additives.
> white and stringy isnt good poop. (well the page looks down) but it means
> overfeeding and/or bacteria.
> water is changed as often and as much as needed to keep nitrate levels at or below 20
> ppm.
> quit adding the medications. they foul the water and are doing nothing since you
> havent actually diagnosed a problem. lots and lots of fresh water for the next 2
> weeks and they will come around. Ingrid

I concur with Ingrid, but you've definitely got to do something about your
stocking
levels, or your fish definitely won't make it.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Leon,

Look carefully if you are buying a Kosher salt to make
sure the brand you are getting does have the bad drying
agent, yellow prussiate of soda. For some reason it
is still being used in some Kosher salts.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------

wrote:

> dont use sea salt, that is for marine fish. use plain water softener crystal rock
> salt or kosher salt with no additives.
> white and stringy isnt good poop. (well the page looks down) but it means
> overfeeding and/or bacteria.
> water is changed as often and as much as needed to keep nitrate levels at or below 20
> ppm.
> quit adding the medications. they foul the water and are doing nothing since you
> havent actually diagnosed a problem. lots and lots of fresh water for the next 2
> weeks and they will come around. Ingrid
>
> (Leon) wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks for the replies geezer and doc solo.
>
>
>>The fish pooh was white and stringy right before they became ill. I
>>had never seen that before and thought I had worms in my tank. I
>>didn't notice any pooh afterwards because they weren't eating. I
>>usually do 25-30% water changes every 2 weeks with a siphon. I do
>>have gravel at the bottom of the tank. 30 gallons of tank for only 7
>>inches worth of fish (3+2+2) seems like a bit much. This is my first
>>tank so I would've never bought a 30 gal. tank on my first try. I
>>need to learn the ropes (obviously) before I step up to the big
>>leagues. I haven't been checking my water (PH, ammonia, nitrates) as
>>often as I should, but that will change after this incident. I am
>>using a water conditioner (the kind that takes out the chlorine in the
>>water) when I add water during a water change. Should I be using a
>>conditioner in addition to the one above? I added some sea salt and
>>some pills (anti-fungal and antibiotic). Something must have worked
>>because this morning they came up for food. They seem to be doing
>>better now (at least they're eating), still a little cloudiness around
>>the eyes though. I gave them the anti-fungal pill b/c I was told
>>cloudy eyes are a fungus. Is this incorrect? If so, please let me
>>know. Thanks.
>>
>>Leon
>>
>>
wrote in message >...
>>
>>>continue to do 50% water changes, add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. cloudy eyes
>>>is not fungus, it is a thickened slime coat due to toxic water conditions. adding
>>>that stuff just made the water more toxic.
>>>you got gravel? read about gravel and how to clean and/or remove the gravel here
>>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm
>>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#essentials
>>>Ingrid
(Leon) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi everyone,
>>>>I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
>>>>They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
>>>>so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
>>>>tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
>>>>eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
>>>>of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
>>>>cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
>>>>come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
>>>>small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
>>>>called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
>>>>and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
>>>>store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
>>>>think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
>>>>to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
>>>>tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
>>>>they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
>>>>sudden sick? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>Leon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>>www.drsolo.com
>>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Leon]

Thanks for the advice. At their pace, I don't know if they would've
made it 2 weeks since they weren't eating at all. They've since
perked up and are now eating like they used to. Don't know about the
salt. It just says it's Aquarium Salt and that it's made from
evaporated sea water. All seems to be well now so I'm going to put
the filter back in and start shopping for a new algae eater and a
bigger tank.


"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message >...
> Leon,
>
> Look carefully if you are buying a Kosher salt to make
> sure the brand you are getting does have the bad drying
> agent, yellow prussiate of soda. For some reason it
> is still being used in some Kosher salts.
>
> Tom L.L.
> --------------------------------------------
>
> wrote:
>
> > dont use sea salt, that is for marine fish. use plain water softener crystal rock
> > salt or kosher salt with no additives.
> > white and stringy isnt good poop. (well the page looks down) but it means
> > overfeeding and/or bacteria.
> > water is changed as often and as much as needed to keep nitrate levels at or below 20
> > ppm.
> > quit adding the medications. they foul the water and are doing nothing since you
> > havent actually diagnosed a problem. lots and lots of fresh water for the next 2
> > weeks and they will come around. Ingrid
> >
> > (Leon) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Thanks for the replies geezer and doc solo.
> >
> >
> >>The fish pooh was white and stringy right before they became ill. I
> >>had never seen that before and thought I had worms in my tank. I
> >>didn't notice any pooh afterwards because they weren't eating. I
> >>usually do 25-30% water changes every 2 weeks with a siphon. I do
> >>have gravel at the bottom of the tank. 30 gallons of tank for only 7
> >>inches worth of fish (3+2+2) seems like a bit much. This is my first
> >>tank so I would've never bought a 30 gal. tank on my first try. I
> >>need to learn the ropes (obviously) before I step up to the big
> >>leagues. I haven't been checking my water (PH, ammonia, nitrates) as
> >>often as I should, but that will change after this incident. I am
> >>using a water conditioner (the kind that takes out the chlorine in the
> >>water) when I add water during a water change. Should I be using a
> >>conditioner in addition to the one above? I added some sea salt and
> >>some pills (anti-fungal and antibiotic). Something must have worked
> >>because this morning they came up for food. They seem to be doing
> >>better now (at least they're eating), still a little cloudiness around
> >>the eyes though. I gave them the anti-fungal pill b/c I was told
> >>cloudy eyes are a fungus. Is this incorrect? If so, please let me
> >>know. Thanks.
> >>
> >>Leon
> >>
> >>
> wrote in message >...
> >>
> >>>continue to do 50% water changes, add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. cloudy eyes
> >>>is not fungus, it is a thickened slime coat due to toxic water conditions. adding
> >>>that stuff just made the water more toxic.
> >>>you got gravel? read about gravel and how to clean and/or remove the gravel here
> >>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care.htm
> >>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care1.htm#essentials
> >>>Ingrid
> (Leon) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi everyone,
> >>>>I currently have 2 goldfish and 1 fantail in a ten gallon tank.
> >>>>They've been in the tank for about 5 months. Everything's been fine
> >>>>so far until yesterday. Now all three just sit on the bottom of the
> >>>>tank behind an ornament, one gf has his dorsal fin folded and cloudy
> >>>>eyes. Other than that, none of the 3 are showing any physical signs
> >>>>of illness, such as ick. I bought an anti-fungal tablet for the
> >>>>cloudy eyes of that one gf, but the other two confuse me. All 3 don't
> >>>>come up for food anymore and sit on the gravel bed all day. I had one
> >>>>small algae eater (not a pleco, but the other one, forgot what he's
> >>>>called) and I found him backstroking this morning. I tested the water
> >>>>and the PH (6.8), ammonia, and nitrates are all in the safe zone (pet
> >>>>store tested it for me). I could raise the PH a little, but I didn't
> >>>>think 6.8 was that dangerous. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes
> >>>>to owning a tank, but I'm learning/trying. I also realize I'm at the
> >>>>tank size limit for the goldfish, but a new tank will come after
> >>>>they're well. Does anyone have any ideas on why my fish are all of
> >>>>sudden sick? Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>>Leon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> >>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> >>>www.drsolo.com
> >>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> >>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> >>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Leon wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice. At their pace, I don't know if they would've
> made it 2 weeks since they weren't eating at all. They've since
> perked up and are now eating like they used to. Don't know about the
> salt. It just says it's Aquarium Salt and that it's made from
> evaporated sea water. All seems to be well now so I'm going to put
> the filter back in and start shopping for a new algae eater and a
> bigger tank.

Good luck - stay away from common Pl*cos though. Bristlenose/Bushynose plecos
are fine
though.