Re: Will bamboo penetrate pond linders?

[jskirwin]

Found your site via google.
Just a word from someone in the USA about the subject.

I am in the process of adding a pond with EPDM liner in an area with
bamboo - for the full on Japanese effect. I dug the hole over a year
ago (lost job long story) then finally bought the liner two weeks ago.
Lined the hole with sand and heavy landscape fabric. Placed the liner,
filled it then let it set for a week to settle. Saturday morning all
was well. Tuesday evening found a 4 inch long bamboo spike through the
liner.

For a year I had not seen any bamboo roots. 3 days later I find the
spike. Remember that it had gone through an inch of sand and 2 layers
of landscape fabric.

I am truly humbled.
--
jskirwin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk

[Gary Rich]

BenignVanilla wrote:
> "jskirwin" > wrote in message
> s.com...
>
>>Found your site via google.
>>Just a word from someone in the USA about the subject.
>>
>>I am in the process of adding a pond with EPDM liner in an area with
>>bamboo - for the full on Japanese effect. I dug the hole over a year
>>ago (lost job long story) then finally bought the liner two weeks ago.
>>Lined the hole with sand and heavy landscape fabric. Placed the liner,
>>filled it then let it set for a week to settle. Saturday morning all
>>was well. Tuesday evening found a 4 inch long bamboo spike through the
>>liner.
>>
>>For a year I had not seen any bamboo roots. 3 days later I find the
>>spike. Remember that it had gone through an inch of sand and 2 layers
>>of landscape fabric.
>
>
> I have seen experts install 10 guage ridge plastic bolted together with
> double sets of steel bolts, buried 4 feet deep...and they still caveat that
> it may not keep the bamboo contained. 45mil EPDM doesn't stand a chance.
>
> BV.

It actualy punched a *hole* in in the EPDM? That's very unusual. The
roots will certainly go through the sand and the fabric, and will find
any crack or seam in the EPDM, but 40 mil EPDM is the standard rhizome
barrier that's used by bamboo growers:

http://www.bamboo.org/GeneralInfoPages/ControllingBamboo.html

And you are in the UK? I'm surprised that even an aggressive runner
would be that invasive in a temperate climate. What kind of bamboo is it?

garyr

[zookeeper]

jskirwin wrote:
> I am in the process of adding a pond with EPDM liner in an area with
> bamboo - for the full on Japanese effect. I dug the hole over a year
> ago (lost job long story) then finally bought the liner two weeks ago.
> Lined the hole with sand and heavy landscape fabric. Placed the liner,
> filled it then let it set for a week to settle. Saturday morning all
> was well. Tuesday evening found a 4 inch long bamboo spike through the
> liner
>

To contain our bamboo in narrow space along a fence, we
dug a trench 12 feet long, 2 feet wide, 2 feet deep. We
bought sheet metal and formed a long oval to line the
trench. It is 3 inches taller than the trench to
prevent the bamboo from "jumping" out of the trench;
we stacked rocks on either side to hide the sheet metal
flange. The ends of the sheet metal lining were
overlapped 12 inches, riveted and sealed with pure
silicon caulking. We planted two black bamboo clumps,
which have produced gradually taller canes each year
and have finally begun to spread around in the trench
to fill in between the two clumps. We have not had any
runners jump or go beneath the liner since it was
constructed about 4-5 years ago.

There are a number of commercial products available to
line a planting hole, but they were too expensive for
our project. The sheet metal was relatively inexpensive
as was the riveter and silicon caulk.
--
Kathy B, zookeeper
3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies
Oregon, Zone 6

[Critical Popperian]

> I have seen experts install 10 guage ridge plastic bolted together with
> double sets of steel bolts, buried 4 feet deep...and they still caveat that
> it may not keep the bamboo contained. 45mil EPDM doesn't stand a chance.

Yeah, but I've always heard it grows over the edges of the container
when it most commonly escapes. Are you saying it went *through* the
plastic?

[BenignVanilla]

"Critical Popperian" > wrote in message
om...
> > I have seen experts install 10 guage ridge plastic bolted together with
> > double sets of steel bolts, buried 4 feet deep...and they still caveat
that
> > it may not keep the bamboo contained. 45mil EPDM doesn't stand a chance.
>
> Yeah, but I've always heard it grows over the edges of the container
> when it most commonly escapes. Are you saying it went *through* the
> plastic?

No. I was referring to it's ability to hop over the edge when you are not
looking.

BV.

[Chris Herring]

"zookeeper" > wrote in message
...
> jskirwin wrote:
> > I am in the process of adding a pond with EPDM liner in an area with
> > bamboo - for the full on Japanese effect. I dug the hole over a year
> > ago (lost job long story) then finally bought the liner two weeks ago.
> > Lined the hole with sand and heavy landscape fabric. Placed the liner,
> > filled it then let it set for a week to settle. Saturday morning all
> > was well. Tuesday evening found a 4 inch long bamboo spike through the
> > liner
> >
>
> To contain our bamboo in narrow space along a fence, we
> dug a trench 12 feet long, 2 feet wide, 2 feet deep. We
> bought sheet metal and formed a long oval to line the
> trench. It is 3 inches taller than the trench to
> prevent the bamboo from "jumping" out of the trench;
> we stacked rocks on either side to hide the sheet metal
> flange. The ends of the sheet metal lining were
> overlapped 12 inches, riveted and sealed with pure
> silicon caulking. We planted two black bamboo clumps,
> which have produced gradually taller canes each year
> and have finally begun to spread around in the trench
> to fill in between the two clumps. We have not had any
> runners jump or go beneath the liner since it was
> constructed about 4-5 years ago.
>
> There are a number of commercial products available to
> line a planting hole, but they were too expensive for
> our project. The sheet metal was relatively inexpensive
> as was the riveter and silicon caulk.

Sorry, I am diverting off-topic here..

This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to plant bamboo next to a
fence, and I have been wondering about the best way to contain it. Did you
consider the possibility that the sheet metal might rust away? If I
understand you correctly, you essentially made an in-ground "planter" for
the bamboo.. sides and bottom of the trench are sheet metal. What about
drainage (apparently not a problem as your bamboo seems happy)?

One of my big concerns is that there is a large oak tree near the fence. I
don't want to disturb the roots of the oak by digging a trench.. now I am
wondering about building a planter above ground, and lining it with perhaps
sheet metal..

Chris

[john rutz]

Chris Herring wrote:
> "zookeeper" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>jskirwin wrote:
>>
>
>
> Sorry, I am diverting off-topic here..
>
> This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to plant bamboo next to a
> fence, and I have been wondering about the best way to contain it. Did you
> consider the possibility that the sheet metal might rust away? If I
> understand you correctly, you essentially made an in-ground "planter" for
> the bamboo.. sides and bottom of the trench are sheet metal. What about
> drainage (apparently not a problem as your bamboo seems happy)?
>
> One of my big concerns is that there is a large oak tree near the fence. I
> don't want to disturb the roots of the oak by digging a trench.. now I am
> wondering about building a planter above ground, and lining it with perhaps
> sheet metal..
>
> Chris
>
>


-- if worried about metal bariers rusting away check w a plastics
retailer/wholesaler for heavy flexible PVC sheet





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

[Gary Rich]

Chris Herring wrote:
> "zookeeper" > wrote in message
> ...
> Sorry, I am diverting off-topic here..
>
> This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to plant bamboo next to a
> fence, and I have been wondering about the best way to contain it. Did you
> consider the possibility that the sheet metal might rust away? If I
> understand you correctly, you essentially made an in-ground "planter" for
> the bamboo.. sides and bottom of the trench are sheet metal. What about
> drainage (apparently not a problem as your bamboo seems happy)?
>
> One of my big concerns is that there is a large oak tree near the fence. I
> don't want to disturb the roots of the oak by digging a trench.. now I am
> wondering about building a planter above ground, and lining it with perhaps
> sheet metal..
>
> Chris

The sheet metal will rust away eventually, so you are asking for some
long term maintenence as you eventually dig it out and replace it. EDPM
is a longer lasting solution. One thing I see commercial planters do
(Six Flags amusement parks as an example) is cut the bottom out of a
EDPM trash can and plant the bamboo in there. The root tips don't dive
down that far so it will contain it. Put gravel or something in the
bottom to ensure good drainage.

Boo and oak together may be asking for trouble. Bamboo needs copious
amounts of water during its growing season. Oak (at least all the oak
varieties in the west) need dry feet all summer long or they become weak
and sickly. Summer watering of oaks in yards and parkways is one of the
leading causes of disease and death of the trees.

garyr

[Chris Herring]

"Gary Rich" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Herring wrote:
> > "zookeeper" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > Sorry, I am diverting off-topic here..
> >
> > This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to plant bamboo next
to a
> > fence, and I have been wondering about the best way to contain it. Did
you
> > consider the possibility that the sheet metal might rust away? If I
> > understand you correctly, you essentially made an in-ground "planter"
for
> > the bamboo.. sides and bottom of the trench are sheet metal. What about
> > drainage (apparently not a problem as your bamboo seems happy)?
> >
> > One of my big concerns is that there is a large oak tree near the fence.
I
> > don't want to disturb the roots of the oak by digging a trench.. now I
am
> > wondering about building a planter above ground, and lining it with
perhaps
> > sheet metal..
> >
> > Chris
>
> The sheet metal will rust away eventually, so you are asking for some
> long term maintenence as you eventually dig it out and replace it. EDPM
> is a longer lasting solution. One thing I see commercial planters do
> (Six Flags amusement parks as an example) is cut the bottom out of a
> EDPM trash can and plant the bamboo in there. The root tips don't dive
> down that far so it will contain it. Put gravel or something in the
> bottom to ensure good drainage.
>
> Boo and oak together may be asking for trouble. Bamboo needs copious
> amounts of water during its growing season. Oak (at least all the oak
> varieties in the west) need dry feet all summer long or they become weak
> and sickly. Summer watering of oaks in yards and parkways is one of the
> leading causes of disease and death of the trees.

The tree is a white oak. Not sure if the same concerns about root rot apply
to that tree (especially here in Maryland.. it seems like it has rained
every day since I moved here!). In any case, that fact seems to lend more
support to the planter idea.. I can control the drainage from the planter so
that it is outside/away from the drip line of the tree.

Chris

[Gary Rich]

BenignVanilla wrote:
> "Chris Herring" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip>
>
>>The tree is a white oak. Not sure if the same concerns about root rot
>
> apply
>
>>to that tree (especially here in Maryland.. it seems like it has rained
>>every day since I moved here!). In any case, that fact seems to lend more
>>support to the planter idea.. I can control the drainage from the planter
>
> so
>
>>that it is outside/away from the drip line of the tree.
>
> <snip>
>
> Not even my Canadian Hemlocks have been adversely affected by the rains we
> have had in MD. I'd suspect the amount of water needed by the Bamboo would
> not adversely affect the oak. Just my 2.
>
> BV.

I think it may just apply to the oaks native to the west were we
(normally) get no rain at all between May and Oct. It's not as simple
as root rot, it's more that they need to hibernate during the hot dry
months and water prevents that from happening.

I'd double check white oak to see if it can handle the amount of
moisture that the boo needs, but you may be OK.

garyr

[zookeeper]

Chris Herring wrote:
> "zookeeper" > wrote:
>>To contain our bamboo in narrow space along a fence, we
>>dug a trench 12 feet long, 2 feet wide, 2 feet deep. We
>>bought sheet metal and formed a long oval to line the
>>trench ...
>
> This sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to plant bamboo next to a
> fence, and I have been wondering about the best way to contain it. Did you
> consider the possibility that the sheet metal might rust away? If I
> understand you correctly, you essentially made an in-ground "planter" for
> the bamboo.. sides and bottom of the trench are sheet metal. What about
> drainage (apparently not a problem as your bamboo seems happy)?

We are confident that the sheet metal will contain the bamboo for a
while. And if it does rust and the bamboo begins to get through the
barrier, there are a lot of ways to slow it down or keep it contained:
when the shoots are young, they can be mowed or broken off, and if you
continue to break off the shoots, those runners will die back.

We were concerned about the drainage because our soil is clay with river
rocks. But it seems to work well -- rain water drains away, and we
frequently flood the bamboo ditch with pond water when doing pond water
changes during spring / summer.
--
zookeeper