H20 changes vs. SA - which is better?

[Mike Miller]

I refill my pond with nutrient-filled tap water, which I'm sure adds to my
SA problem. Eventually I may install a rainwater collector, but until then,
what do you think: do the benefits of water changes outdo the harm they may
do to my SA population?

I had been doing 5-10% water changes weekly, but I wonder if I reduced this,
would overall pond health not suffer but my SA go down? My pond is full of
plants, floater, etc. all doing well, add K, magnesium (low in my area) and
BZT weekly. Healthy, non-fed fish, happy frogs, healthy plants, but healthy
SA, too. Hmm, opinions?

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

How old is the pond? If under 2 years, harvest the worst out, continue to
do the water changes, imo. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

>On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:36:20 GMT, "Mike Miller" > wrote:

>I refill my pond with nutrient-filled tap water, which I'm sure adds to my
>SA problem. Eventually I may install a rainwater collector, but until then,
>what do you think: do the benefits of water changes outdo the harm they may
>do to my SA population?
>
>I had been doing 5-10% water changes weekly, but I wonder if I reduced this,
>would overall pond health not suffer but my SA go down? My pond is full of
>plants, floater, etc. all doing well, add K, magnesium (low in my area) and
>BZT weekly. Healthy, non-fed fish, happy frogs, healthy plants, but healthy
>SA, too. Hmm, opinions?
>

[Lee Brouillet]

I was just gonna say the same thing, Jan until I read your post! I struggled
with SA for two years - pounds and pounds of it on a weekly basis. This year
(3rd year for this pond), there's still some, but it's not bad. Now it's
just handfuls <G>. I have HIGH hopes for next year !!!

I wish I could offer some truly constructive advice. I tried that stuff in a
jar; didn't work. I tried starving it out with potash; didn't help. I tried
peroxide; I tried alum - neither worked. I tried barley straw; it not only
didn't help, it made a GREATER mess when it disintegrated in the water
(there must be a *very* fine line between "rotting" and "disintegration"!)
If it's in the pond where the fish are, they should be eating it. If not,
cut their rations and make them earn their living <s>. If it's in your
rockwork, like in the waterfall, shut down your pump, get in there and pull
as much of the stuff off as you can, then scrub the rockwork with salt and a
clean/new brush. That will give you a couple of weeks before it grows back.
I don't think your water changes are adding to the problem.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> How old is the pond? If under 2 years, harvest the worst out, continue to
> do the water changes, imo. ~ jan
>
>
> See my ponds and filter design:
> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website
>
> >On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:36:20 GMT, "Mike Miller" >
wrote:
>
> >I refill my pond with nutrient-filled tap water, which I'm sure adds to
my
> >SA problem. Eventually I may install a rainwater collector, but until
then,
> >what do you think: do the benefits of water changes outdo the harm they
may
> >do to my SA population?
> >
> >I had been doing 5-10% water changes weekly, but I wonder if I reduced
this,
> >would overall pond health not suffer but my SA go down? My pond is full
of
> >plants, floater, etc. all doing well, add K, magnesium (low in my area)
and
> >BZT weekly. Healthy, non-fed fish, happy frogs, healthy plants, but
healthy
> >SA, too. Hmm, opinions?
> >
>

[Lee Brouillet]

I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge, something
like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number, the better
your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the rain, it
dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the rainwater! And
acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is better than
MY rain <G>!

I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found out about
this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more I find out
I NEED to learn (long sigh).

Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the pond
(assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from the other
roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH roots . . .
Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the right
frame of mind!

Lee

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:_lxYa.90721$YN5.64739@sccrnsc01...
> I really appreciate both of your advice. Lee, your pond is 3 years old?
> Mine is 2 years old last week, and I remember reading many of your posts
for
> advice as I was starting - you were such a useful font of info 2 years ago
> for me!
>
> The SA problem lies in the edges where it tangles in the parrot feather or
> water cress (both just wedged into rocks under the water, no soil) and
also
> in the WH roots, so I can't really harvest all of it out w/o ripping apart
> other plant roots. So, I guess I'll just keep doing the water changes and
> think about a rainwater collector for next year.
>
>

[Mike Miller]

Where do you live that you get 3 1/2"/hour of rain?! Also, is ORP something
you're actually testing for? Can you explain?

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge,
something
> like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
> explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number, the
better
> your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the rain,
it
> dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the rainwater! And
> acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is better
than
> MY rain <G>!
>
> I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found out about
> this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more I find
out
> I NEED to learn (long sigh).
>
> Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the pond
> (assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from the other
> roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH roots . .
..
> Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the right
> frame of mind!

[Lee Brouillet]

I'm in Central Florida, just a little north of Tampa. Actually, most of the
rain fell in less than 45 minutes; the rest was just pre- and post- storm .
.. . pretty common around here in the summer (long sigh). And yes, I monitor
ORP. It isn't a drop test, it's a meter test. I thread the probe through one
of the outlets on my skimmer box, stick the probe in a piece of styrofoam to
float it, and watch the meter. It's on 24/7. The readings are an indication
of how much crud is in the pond or when pollutants are present, and it lets
you know when you need to make improvements, like clean the filters/bottom,
increase oxygen, etc. It gives instant feed-back to show whether that latest
tweak you did to the filters is actually doing something or not. The higher
the numbers, the better. A pond that registers 200 needs improvement; below
180 your fishes' health is being compromised. Above 280, and you're doing
well. I try to keep mine in the 325-370 range. If you get above 400, it's
"too clean", and again (for long term) your fish are in jeopardy. If mine
falls below 270/280, I look for the problem and tweak. I like toys!

Lee

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:%NEYa.93324$YN5.67131@sccrnsc01...
> Where do you live that you get 3 1/2"/hour of rain?! Also, is ORP
something
> you're actually testing for? Can you explain?
>
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge,
> something
> > like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
> > explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number, the
> better
> > your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the rain,
> it
> > dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the rainwater!
And
> > acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is better
> than
> > MY rain <G>!
> >
> > I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found out
about
> > this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more I find
> out
> > I NEED to learn (long sigh).
> >
> > Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the pond
> > (assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from the
other
> > roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH roots .
..
> .
> > Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the right
> > frame of mind!
>
>

[Nedra]

And where did you find such a meter, Lee? Sounds neat.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in Central Florida, just a little north of Tampa. Actually, most of
the
> rain fell in less than 45 minutes; the rest was just pre- and post- storm
..
> . . pretty common around here in the summer (long sigh). And yes, I
monitor
> ORP. It isn't a drop test, it's a meter test. I thread the probe through
one
> of the outlets on my skimmer box, stick the probe in a piece of styrofoam
to
> float it, and watch the meter. It's on 24/7. The readings are an
indication
> of how much crud is in the pond or when pollutants are present, and it
lets
> you know when you need to make improvements, like clean the
filters/bottom,
> increase oxygen, etc. It gives instant feed-back to show whether that
latest
> tweak you did to the filters is actually doing something or not. The
higher
> the numbers, the better. A pond that registers 200 needs improvement;
below
> 180 your fishes' health is being compromised. Above 280, and you're doing
> well. I try to keep mine in the 325-370 range. If you get above 400, it's
> "too clean", and again (for long term) your fish are in jeopardy. If mine
> falls below 270/280, I look for the problem and tweak. I like toys!
>
> Lee
>
> "Mike Miller" > wrote in message
> news:%NEYa.93324$YN5.67131@sccrnsc01...
> > Where do you live that you get 3 1/2"/hour of rain?! Also, is ORP
> something
> > you're actually testing for? Can you explain?
> >
> > "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge,
> > something
> > > like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
> > > explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number, the
> > better
> > > your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the
rain,
> > it
> > > dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the rainwater!
> And
> > > acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is better
> > than
> > > MY rain <G>!
> > >
> > > I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found out
> about
> > > this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more I
find
> > out
> > > I NEED to learn (long sigh).
> > >
> > > Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the pond
> > > (assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from the
> other
> > > roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH roots
..
> .
> > .
> > > Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the
right
> > > frame of mind!
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Lee Brouillet]

Aquatic Eco has several types. I have an electrical one that measures in 5
degree increments, but it's kinda useless at this time of year when the
power fluctuates so often. It needs to be recalibrated every time it shuts
off, so it's a real pain in the butt. But I also have a battery operated one
that's good for about 3 months on a 9V battery, so it works nicely at this
time of year. And it works on 1 degree increments, so it's a little more
accurate (although "ball park" figures are just fine in this instance).

This falls into the category of - "All my water parameters are fine. I
*think* everything's OK, but what if there's just a teensy bit more I can
do? Or what if it isn't one of those things I measure?" - things. It is by
NO means necessary, but it gives a lot of insight into the pond's
well-being. It's for us anal-retentive personalities! <G>

Lee

"Nedra" > wrote in message
link.net...
> And where did you find such a meter, Lee? Sounds neat.
>
> Nedra
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm in Central Florida, just a little north of Tampa. Actually, most of
> the
> > rain fell in less than 45 minutes; the rest was just pre- and post-
storm
> .
> > . . pretty common around here in the summer (long sigh). And yes, I
> monitor
> > ORP. It isn't a drop test, it's a meter test. I thread the probe through
> one
> > of the outlets on my skimmer box, stick the probe in a piece of
styrofoam
> to
> > float it, and watch the meter. It's on 24/7. The readings are an
> indication
> > of how much crud is in the pond or when pollutants are present, and it
> lets
> > you know when you need to make improvements, like clean the
> filters/bottom,
> > increase oxygen, etc. It gives instant feed-back to show whether that
> latest
> > tweak you did to the filters is actually doing something or not. The
> higher
> > the numbers, the better. A pond that registers 200 needs improvement;
> below
> > 180 your fishes' health is being compromised. Above 280, and you're
doing
> > well. I try to keep mine in the 325-370 range. If you get above 400,
it's
> > "too clean", and again (for long term) your fish are in jeopardy. If
mine
> > falls below 270/280, I look for the problem and tweak. I like toys!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > "Mike Miller" > wrote in message
> > news:%NEYa.93324$YN5.67131@sccrnsc01...
> > > Where do you live that you get 3 1/2"/hour of rain?! Also, is ORP
> > something
> > > you're actually testing for? Can you explain?
> > >
> > > "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge,
> > > something
> > > > like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
> > > > explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number, the
> > > better
> > > > your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the
> rain,
> > > it
> > > > dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the
rainwater!
> > And
> > > > acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is
better
> > > than
> > > > MY rain <G>!
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found out
> > about
> > > > this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more I
> find
> > > out
> > > > I NEED to learn (long sigh).
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the pond
> > > > (assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from the
> > other
> > > > roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH
roots
> .
> > .
> > > .
> > > > Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the
> right
> > > > frame of mind!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Nedra]

LOL! I'm definitely not in this group .... too dang lazy for
this kind thing. Thanks anyway, Lee.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
...
> Aquatic Eco has several types. I have an electrical one that measures in 5
> degree increments, but it's kinda useless at this time of year when the
> power fluctuates so often. It needs to be recalibrated every time it shuts
> off, so it's a real pain in the butt. But I also have a battery operated
one
> that's good for about 3 months on a 9V battery, so it works nicely at this
> time of year. And it works on 1 degree increments, so it's a little more
> accurate (although "ball park" figures are just fine in this instance).
>
> This falls into the category of - "All my water parameters are fine. I
> *think* everything's OK, but what if there's just a teensy bit more I can
> do? Or what if it isn't one of those things I measure?" - things. It is by
> NO means necessary, but it gives a lot of insight into the pond's
> well-being. It's for us anal-retentive personalities! <G>
>
> Lee
>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > And where did you find such a meter, Lee? Sounds neat.
> >
> > Nedra
> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> > "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm in Central Florida, just a little north of Tampa. Actually, most
of
> > the
> > > rain fell in less than 45 minutes; the rest was just pre- and post-
> storm
> > .
> > > . . pretty common around here in the summer (long sigh). And yes, I
> > monitor
> > > ORP. It isn't a drop test, it's a meter test. I thread the probe
through
> > one
> > > of the outlets on my skimmer box, stick the probe in a piece of
> styrofoam
> > to
> > > float it, and watch the meter. It's on 24/7. The readings are an
> > indication
> > > of how much crud is in the pond or when pollutants are present, and it
> > lets
> > > you know when you need to make improvements, like clean the
> > filters/bottom,
> > > increase oxygen, etc. It gives instant feed-back to show whether that
> > latest
> > > tweak you did to the filters is actually doing something or not. The
> > higher
> > > the numbers, the better. A pond that registers 200 needs improvement;
> > below
> > > 180 your fishes' health is being compromised. Above 280, and you're
> doing
> > > well. I try to keep mine in the 325-370 range. If you get above 400,
> it's
> > > "too clean", and again (for long term) your fish are in jeopardy. If
> mine
> > > falls below 270/280, I look for the problem and tweak. I like toys!
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > "Mike Miller" > wrote in message
> > > news:%NEYa.93324$YN5.67131@sccrnsc01...
> > > > Where do you live that you get 3 1/2"/hour of rain?! Also, is ORP
> > > something
> > > > you're actually testing for? Can you explain?
> > > >
> > > > "Lee Brouillet" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I'm becoming suspect of rainwater! Last weekend, we had a deluge,
> > > > something
> > > > > like 7 inches in about 2 hours. I monitor ORP in my pond (simple
> > > > > explanation: oxygen reduction potential). The higher the number,
the
> > > > better
> > > > > your pond water. Mine usually runs in the 320-370 range. After the
> > rain,
> > > > it
> > > > > dropped to 130! That's how much pollution there was in the
> rainwater!
> > > And
> > > > > acid: it dropped my KH by nearly 100 ppm. I hope *your* rain is
> better
> > > > than
> > > > > MY rain <G>!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm happy to know that I was able to help. The one thing I found
out
> > > about
> > > > > this hobby is that ignorance is bliss: the more I learn, the more
I
> > find
> > > > out
> > > > > I NEED to learn (long sigh).
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps you can get yourself a long, tall, cool one, sit by the
pond
> > > > > (assuming a Zen attitude) and just gently "tease" the stuff from
the
> > > other
> > > > > roots? That's what I do with the SA when it infringes on the WH
> roots
> > .
> > > .
> > > > .
> > > > > Now granted, it may take a FEW long, tall, cool ones to get in the
> > right
> > > > > frame of mind!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>