How many koi is too many koi

[Carl Beyer]

OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?

The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[K30a]

Hi Carl,

I suspect those dealers are filtering the heck out of their systems, at least I
hope they are!

In my experience an understocked pond is a lot more forgiving than an
overstocked pond. Being a total amateur I like to err on the side of caution.


k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[john rutz]

>> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>>
>> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I
>> go see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
>> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -- -- http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com
>
>
> well one you cant compare a sales or show tanks with our/your pond,
> most sales show tanks are highly filtered, and have large daily water changes

and the fish population starts high
and then drops rapidly as sales go on.

where with our ponds we usualy use smaller filters, and add fish as time
goes by either by our fish growing or pruchasing new ones here and there

also thier sales tanks are in locations where they stay clean no leaves
,grass, garden chemicals and they probly add "maitenance" chemicals daily
where we dont ours are in yards exposed to all the vagrancies mother
nature can throw at us



--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

[Sam Hopkins]

Koi are a version of carp. Matter of fact I believe "Koi" means carp. So
when you see or hear, "Koi Carp" that's really like saying, "Carp carp."

If you've fished for carp you know that they can live in the nastiest water
sorces out there. I bet they could live in pure poop. Carp are highly
invasive in america. Any rec pond owner with carp will tell you how they
destroy the pond by muddying the water.

Sam

"Carl Beyer" > wrote in message
...
> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>
> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
>
> Carl
>
> --
> --
> http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[BenignVanilla]

"Carl Beyer" > wrote in message
...
> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>
> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...

Think of it this way...I am going to put you in a sealed room. You are
allowed to wander where ever you want, and you do. At some random point I
will add fatal amount of toxin to a small area in the room. This toxin will
slowly distribute over time and will eventually reside in every area of the
room. The amount of toxin that is deadly to you is proportionate to the
amount of air that it is mixed with. Little air lotsa toxin, you are dead.
Lotsa air and same amount of toxin, you live.

Now...You get to choose the room. Would you like to be in a room the size of
a Cooper Mini, or would you choose a footbal stadium?

Same deal for fish.

BV.

[Gary Rich]

Carl Beyer wrote:
> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>
> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...

The main reason is, like others said, fast turnover. Those fish are not
crowded in that tank for that long. And they filter the heck out of it.
The latter point also equals risk. If they had a power failure for
an hour or two probably all those fish would be dead. They probably
have battery backup, since they know this. Do you? Lower stocking
rates means that the filtering can fail for a longer amount of time
before it's terminal.

garyr

[DonKcR]

Gary, That brings up something I've always wanted to know, how long do you
think that the power could be out for till your fish are in danger? I have a
750 - 800 gallon pond and 10 Koi. I always worry about that every time we
have a big storm here in Arizona. Thanks Kc
"Gary Rich" > wrote in message
...
> Carl Beyer wrote:
> > OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
> >
> > The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> > see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> > inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
>
> The main reason is, like others said, fast turnover. Those fish are not
> crowded in that tank for that long. And they filter the heck out of it.
> The latter point also equals risk. If they had a power failure for
> an hour or two probably all those fish would be dead. They probably
> have battery backup, since they know this. Do you? Lower stocking
> rates means that the filtering can fail for a longer amount of time
> before it's terminal.
>
> garyr
>

[RichToyBox]

The amount of time is hard to predict. The amount of oxygen held in warm
water is much less than in cold water. The activity of the fish is higher
in warm water than cold water. Submerged, so called oxygenator, plants use
oxygen at night, and provide oxygen during the day. And of course, due to
the health of the fish, the gills can be compromised by parasites, ammonia,
nitrites, and any number of other factors. Everyone needs some form of
battery backup or backup generator. For battery backup, I started with a
boat bilge pump and a battery. Some of the sporting goods stores or
sections of stores have battery operated bait aerators. Both of these
require you to be there when the power fails to activate them. I currently
run a large air pump through a battery charger, battery, power inverter so
that it is always running from a fully charged battery, so it is on even if
I am not home.My system will go about 18 hours. I also have a portable
generator that I bought specifically for the pond in the event of a major
power outage. Of course I run an extension cord into the house to run the
refrigerator and freezer and make a pot of coffee, but the generator is for
the PONDS.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"DonKcR" > wrote in message
news:TPV_a.1692$QT5.1149@fed1read02...
> Gary, That brings up something I've always wanted to know, how long do you
> think that the power could be out for till your fish are in danger? I have
a
> 750 - 800 gallon pond and 10 Koi. I always worry about that every time we
> have a big storm here in Arizona. Thanks Kc
> "Gary Rich" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Carl Beyer wrote:
> > > OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
> > >
> > > The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> > > see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> > > inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
> >
> > The main reason is, like others said, fast turnover. Those fish are not
> > crowded in that tank for that long. And they filter the heck out of it.
> > The latter point also equals risk. If they had a power failure for
> > an hour or two probably all those fish would be dead. They probably
> > have battery backup, since they know this. Do you? Lower stocking
> > rates means that the filtering can fail for a longer amount of time
> > before it's terminal.
> >
> > garyr
> >
>
>

[Lee Brouillet]

The fish store I go to not only filters the stuffing out of their water, but
they do what amounts to 100% water exchanges weekly. When we were on water
restrictions, they had to get a variance. But that's how they keep the
stocking levels they do. Now, their "high end" Japanese imports - the ones
that *start* at $500 each, are in a tank that gives them about 500 gallons
per fish - MUCH higher than the other stocking densities. You can push the
limits, but be prepared to pay the cost: better filtration, heavier water
exchanges, more cleaning, constant monitoring of all water conditions, extra
aeration - constant attention. And be prepared with power back-up. Less
fish/less work and problems.

Lee
"Carl Beyer" > wrote in message
...
> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>
> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
> see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
>
> Carl
>
> --
> --
> http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[Gary Rich]

DonKcR wrote:
> Gary, That brings up something I've always wanted to know, how long do you
> think that the power could be out for till your fish are in danger? I have a
> 750 - 800 gallon pond and 10 Koi. I always worry about that every time we
> have a big storm here in Arizona. Thanks Kc

Funny you should ask.... I suspect we will have a fair number of
datapoints from the northeast part of the US fairly soon >_<

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

One can also filter an overstock pond to the max and still end up with sick
fish. Over crowding for long period of time, is a stress also. ~ jan

>Carl Beyer wrote:
>> OK, Take out the filtration factor and what is too much for koi?
>>
>> The reason I ask is that I see so many different claims, and then I go
>> see a koi breeder and they have 20 big ones in 1000 gallons (30+
>> inches). And 50 or more in 750 gallon setups...
>
>On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:04:48 -0700, Gary Rich > wrote:
>The main reason is, like others said, fast turnover. Those fish are not
>crowded in that tank for that long. And they filter the heck out of it.
> The latter point also equals risk. If they had a power failure for
>an hour or two probably all those fish would be dead. They probably
>have battery backup, since they know this. Do you? Lower stocking
>rates means that the filtering can fail for a longer amount of time
>before it's terminal.
>
>garyr


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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