Re: do I need a bottom drain?

[joe]

Lydia wrote:

> 1) Does remnant carpet or carpet padding work ok for cushioning the liner?
You can buy padding that is not too expensive and won't rot away.
>
> 2) Can I put old carpet for cushion on the bottom too or is that only for
> the sides and I must use sand on the bottom?
I just used padding on the bottom and up the sides with no problems.
>
> 3) I'm not planning on having any fish other than mosquito fish. I asked a
> while ago and understand that I won't need a filter. So that means I don't
> need a bottom drain, either, right? Or do I?

Ahhhhh. You see, the question as you ask it is poorly conceived. "I'm not
PLANNING on having any fish..." You will have fish, might as well give into
the dark side and plan for it rather that be bitching and moaning next year
about a retro fit.

Joe



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[BenignVanilla]

"Lydia" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, I'm nearing the first stages of pondhood... the digging. As soon as I
> can get my sister-in-law's electrician husband to put in my outdor GFI
> outlet digging will commence. Once that's done I'll get the liner, the
pump
> etc for the waterfall, the edging rocks. I have a few questions:
>
> 1) Does remnant carpet or carpet padding work ok for cushioning the
liner?
>
> 2) Can I put old carpet for cushion on the bottom too or is that only for
> the sides and I must use sand on the bottom?

I was going to use carpet under mine, but when I had to fight my utility
knife to cut through the EPDM, I said screw the underlayment. If I have to
work to cut it, there ain't no root that will be stopped by carpeting.
*laugh*

BV.

[Gregory Young]

See my comments below.
Happy ponding,
Greg


"Lydia" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, I'm nearing the first stages of pondhood... the digging. As soon as I
> can get my sister-in-law's electrician husband to put in my outdor GFI
> outlet digging will commence. Once that's done I'll get the liner, the
pump
> etc for the waterfall, the edging rocks. I have a few questions:
>
> 1) Does remnant carpet or carpet padding work ok for cushioning the
liner?
Works fine.. one tip, if a solid matt base, take razor knife and cut a 4
inch or so slash every few feet, to allow any trapped water to escape, to
avoid water between liner a carpet.
>
> 2) Can I put old carpet for cushion on the bottom too or is that only for
> the sides and I must use sand on the bottom?
bottom is fine
>
> 3) I'm not planning on having any fish other than mosquito fish. I asked
a
> while ago and understand that I won't need a filter. So that means I
don't
> need a bottom drain, either, right? Or do I?
go with a bottom drain! It will help decrease the amount of annual cleanup,
regardless of the presence/absence of fish..
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Ditto on agreement with doing a bottom drain. My lily pond has a bottom
drain installed and all the piping ready to go in the area that a future
filter will be. In the meantime, come spring I have to drain and shop vac
out all the muck that accumulated from the season before. This is a fairly
fishless pond and I'm amazed at the muck... and I dead head and remove pads
regularly so the muck is from accumulated algae and stuff blown in. It took
6 hours this spring to do the clean up. Whereas the fully stock koi ponds
with a bottom drain, require no draining and just a little vaccing of the
slow areas, takes less than 30 minutes to do the spring startup on them.
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Lydia]

Ok, I guess bottom drain it is. I realize it'd be better to put it in now
rather than after the fact so I will to allow for more flexibility in the
future :) although
I will "uuuuuuse the force" and resist the dark side and the lure of fish
other than the mosquito fish... at least not for a long while (famous last
words?). I was *thinking* I'd just dig a hole, cover with liner, decorate,
and fill with water and plants and BAM - water garden - and whatever wants
to live in there does so at it's own risk with whatever gunk is on the
bottom. Basically resembling the wetlands directly behind us that just
accumulate gunk w/o a bottom drain in those pools of water. But maybe the
wetlands have some sort of natural drain or process that serves the same
purpose as a bottom drain.

Here's another drain-like question: I was thinking I'd put some overflow
pipes at the side of the pond because we get so much rain in the winter that
I can just see this water garden turning into a big mess and having a mighty
soggy back yard. To keep the mosquito fish from being sucked out through
the overflow pipes I thought I'd cover the openings with some kind of mesh
screen or fabric. SO... I'll bury the pipes, ever so nicely, at whatever
level I don't want the pond to get any higher than. I'll have to stick them
through the liner (right?) and then seal the liner around them as well as
seal the mesh stuff to the pipes. Will the clear silicone sealant I've seen
referred to here do that trick?

I will record this new adventure and post the pics when we start. I had
said previously that I was going to wait until the outdoor outlet is in
before we start digging, but maybe we'll just start before then. I've never
been so anxious to dig a hole!


Thanks again
Lydia

[BenignVanilla]

"Lydia" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Here's another drain-like question: I was thinking I'd put some overflow
> pipes at the side of the pond because we get so much rain in the winter
that
> I can just see this water garden turning into a big mess and having a
mighty
> soggy back yard. To keep the mosquito fish from being sucked out through
> the overflow pipes I thought I'd cover the openings with some kind of mesh
> screen or fabric. SO... I'll bury the pipes, ever so nicely, at whatever
> level I don't want the pond to get any higher than. I'll have to stick
them
> through the liner (right?) and then seal the liner around them as well as
> seal the mesh stuff to the pipes. Will the clear silicone sealant I've
seen
> referred to here do that trick?
<snip>

Check out Greg Beckal's site, and use his boot. They are awesome, and
require no gooey chemicals.

BV.

[Sully]

BenignVanilla wrote:

>
> Check out Greg Beckal's site, and use his boot. They are awesome, and
> require no gooey chemicals.
>
> BV.
>


Is th ere an address for Greg's site? Thanks,
Sully

[Nedra]

Here's the link to Greg's:

http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/pond.htm

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Sully" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> BenignVanilla wrote:
>
> >
> > Check out Greg Beckal's site, and use his boot. They are awesome, and
> > require no gooey chemicals.
> >
> > BV.
> >
>
>
> Is th ere an address for Greg's site? Thanks,
> Sully
>

[K30a]

Lydia wrote >>But maybe the
wetlands have some sort of natural drain or process that serves the same
purpose as a bottom drain.<<

A lined pond is not natural as Mother Nature sees natural. Mother Nature plans
for a pond to fill in over time. Pond to wetland to wet meadow to regular
meadow. If she keeps the water constant in it then it turns into a bog, full of
anaerobic bacteria and it stinks!
I have a bog garden and when one of the labradors goes for a mud bath she
spends the night in the garage! Sure way to turn a yellow lab into a chocolate
lab. ;-)

k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Ok, I guess bottom drain it is.

WooHoo! ;o)

>Here's another drain-like question: I was thinking I'd put some overflow
>pipes To keep the mosquito fish from being sucked out through
>the overflow pipes I thought I'd cover the openings with some kind of mesh
>screen or fabric. >Lydia

As already mentioned, check out Greg's Pipe Boot, tis what I used for my
skimmer portion. For an overflow go thru the side and use an elbow and
perhaps a length of pipe (if needed) to the surface of the high point as
you described. Rather than screen it, I suggest have it empty into a barrel
somewhere away from the pond. That way if you need to cut the minnow
numbers, easy way to catch, but mostly without a screen it won't clog and
you could use it to skim the surface, yet save any fish that get sucked in.
The barrel could have a sump pump to pump the water off to anywhere the
garden needed extra water if it got too full.

Regarding my skimmer, you might want to check out the piping design we put
under the liner for my bottom drain with a skimmer that feeds into same
pipe. Bottom drains a must, but skimmer are very nice too. ~ jan

Click on *My Lily Pond*
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Ghislain]

Hi! Benign what is Greg Beckal, sites e mail it to me please

"Sully" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> BenignVanilla wrote:
>
> >
> > Check out Greg Beckal's site, and use his boot. They are awesome, and
> > require no gooey chemicals.
> >
> > BV.
> >
>
>
> Is th ere an address for Greg's site? Thanks,
> Sully
>

[DT]

Ghislain wrote:

> Hi! Benign what is Greg Beckal, sites e mail it to me please
>
> "Sully" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>BenignVanilla wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Check out Greg Beckal's site, and use his boot. They are awesome, and
>>>require no gooey chemicals.
>>>
>>>BV.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Is th ere an address for Greg's site? Thanks,
>>Sully

http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/pipeboot.htm