Poll: plants in gravel or clay/soil?

[Mike Miller]

I'm planning an expansion of my pond next year to deal with some issues I
created. One of them is poor plant growth in marginals that are in clay
soil but with no additional fertilizer.

One one side of the argument is plants in clay/soil do better, but might not
be able to get at nutrients present in the pond, thus allowing string algae
to outcompete them as the clay "keeps" the nutrient flow away from the
roots. (BTW, I'm not presenting this as fact, just trying to figure things
out!). I have to wonder about this when I see arrowroot growing huge in the
natural ponds around here, yet my in-kitty-litter arrowroot is but a puny
shadow (well, it's also in a pot...). One could fertilize and they would do
better, but why add nutrients here if the pond is already producing SA,
meaning there is excess N and P in the pond already? (I, like many of you,
add K regularly)

On the other side is that plants in gravel or gravel beds, or just tossed
into the water can take up nutrients in the water faster or better, allowing
them to grow better and (hopefully) out-compete the SA.

I suppose pot size per plant would also be a factor here - perhaps my
marginals need bigger pots? But I do know that the WH and other
toss-them-into-the-pond type plants (parrot feather, et al) do fine.

So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
of some type? How well do they grow? Do you fertilize, or add K at all to
your pond? Maybe this could be a useful thread to collect some real life
data.

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Our plants are all in 1-2" rocks or free floating. Growth is fine

J


--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01...
> I'm planning an expansion of my pond next year to deal with some issues I
> created. One of them is poor plant growth in marginals that are in clay
> soil but with no additional fertilizer.
>
> One one side of the argument is plants in clay/soil do better, but might
not
> be able to get at nutrients present in the pond, thus allowing string
algae
> to outcompete them as the clay "keeps" the nutrient flow away from the
> roots. (BTW, I'm not presenting this as fact, just trying to figure
things
> out!). I have to wonder about this when I see arrowroot growing huge in
the
> natural ponds around here, yet my in-kitty-litter arrowroot is but a puny
> shadow (well, it's also in a pot...). One could fertilize and they would
do
> better, but why add nutrients here if the pond is already producing SA,
> meaning there is excess N and P in the pond already? (I, like many of
you,
> add K regularly)
>
> On the other side is that plants in gravel or gravel beds, or just tossed
> into the water can take up nutrients in the water faster or better,
allowing
> them to grow better and (hopefully) out-compete the SA.
>
> I suppose pot size per plant would also be a factor here - perhaps my
> marginals need bigger pots? But I do know that the WH and other
> toss-them-into-the-pond type plants (parrot feather, et al) do fine.
>
> So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
> of some type? How well do they grow? Do you fertilize, or add K at all
to
> your pond? Maybe this could be a useful thread to collect some real life
> data.
>
>

[K30a]

The last two years I've had my lilies
a) tied to a rock and sunk
b) tied to a mesh plant basket
and sunk with a couple big rocks.

Neither method was very impressive
as far as blooms are concerned.
I've been lowering my fish stock so the amt. of fish business for fertilizer
hasn't been as much.
The hyacinths in the veggie filter are still growing green and tall, though.

Next year --- I'm putting in something, clay media, soil, pea gravel in the
lily baskets and I'm going to make it easier to
fertilize.


k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[Gregory Young]

I've been using pea gravel, covered by 2 inch river rock for several
reasons:
1) Koi don't root around in it, like they did soil containing pots (they are
benthic feeders, are love to root around in the dirt looking for munchies)
2) If it spills, it's a lot easier to clean up than soil, and they do spill!
3) It's easy to divide, and prevents loss of material clinging to roots
(dirt clings more easily than pea gravel which washes away, usually without
any root ball damage..
4) There is much less compaction (of soil base), so less H2S and methane
production
5) it's really no heavier than clay soil
I did the studies a few years back comparing lily growth and bloom in pea
gravel vs. soil.
You need to be sure to use a slow release fertilizer that supplements agents
soil usually contains (minerals, etc), not just the N, Phosph and Potash. I
use what Longwood gardens uses.. highland rim. if you fertilize there is no
difference in plant vigor/blooms. if you forget to (as I have done), there
seems to be less blooming, but no difference in leaf production.. that's for
lilies.
I have always had my marginals in pea gravel, without fertilization, and
they do great.
Happy ponding,
Greg

--


"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01...
> I'm planning an expansion of my pond next year to deal with some issues I
> created. One of them is poor plant growth in marginals that are in clay
> soil but with no additional fertilizer.
>
> One one side of the argument is plants in clay/soil do better, but might
not
> be able to get at nutrients present in the pond, thus allowing string
algae
> to outcompete them as the clay "keeps" the nutrient flow away from the
> roots. (BTW, I'm not presenting this as fact, just trying to figure
things
> out!). I have to wonder about this when I see arrowroot growing huge in
the
> natural ponds around here, yet my in-kitty-litter arrowroot is but a puny
> shadow (well, it's also in a pot...). One could fertilize and they would
do
> better, but why add nutrients here if the pond is already producing SA,
> meaning there is excess N and P in the pond already? (I, like many of
you,
> add K regularly)
>
> On the other side is that plants in gravel or gravel beds, or just tossed
> into the water can take up nutrients in the water faster or better,
allowing
> them to grow better and (hopefully) out-compete the SA.
>
> I suppose pot size per plant would also be a factor here - perhaps my
> marginals need bigger pots? But I do know that the WH and other
> toss-them-into-the-pond type plants (parrot feather, et al) do fine.
>
> So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
> of some type? How well do they grow? Do you fertilize, or add K at all
to
> your pond? Maybe this could be a useful thread to collect some real life
> data.
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:13:30 -0700, zookeeper > wrote:

>Mike Miller wrote:
>> ... Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
>> of some type? How well do they grow? Do you fertilize, or add K at all to
>> your pond? ...

I don't use K, some marginals are in river rock or even just big rocks
holding them in the baskets. Arrowheads, taros, & canna are in sandy soil
and were fed when I divided and maybe one more time a month ago. Lilies,
lotus in sandy soil, fed often. Most everything is in baskets with weed
fabric liner, that many roots manage to still get thru and right out into
the water flow (a good thing). Only plants I use solid pots for are the
cattails and they are in rocks and whatever dirt they've managed to hang on
to. Everything growing great, my biggest problem this year that slow things
down was due to high pH. ~ jan



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Karen Mullen]

In article <5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01>, "Mike Miller"
> writes:

>So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
>of some type? How well do they grow?

all my plants are in pea gravel and do very well. I fertilize the lilies only,
but add potash regularly.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[zookeeper]

Karen Mullen wrote:
> In article >, zookeeper >
> writes:
>
>>Everything grows well, except now that I'm adjusting KH, I'm noticing
>>that some plants do better with low KH and some do better with high KH.
>
> have you noted what plants do better in high KH and low KH. I'm adjusting KH
> also and have noticed that my WL is turning yellow. How is yours doing?

I don't have WL this year -- attracts too many aphids here. My normally
unstoppable dark green pickerel is yellowing, then getting crispy. I'll
add potash later this week to see if that helps. My pH didn't drop as
the KH went up (pH 9 / KH 143), so the problem might be the pH. Hmmmmm
.... more chemistry ;-) But the water lilies threw out 5-7 new leaves,
two new blossoms; and the corkscrew rush is really growing now.
--
Zk

[Mike Miller]

> I did the studies a few years back comparing lily growth and bloom in pea
> gravel vs. soil.
> You need to be sure to use a slow release fertilizer that supplements
agents
> soil usually contains (minerals, etc), not just the N, Phosph and Potash.
I
> use what Longwood gardens uses.. highland rim. if you fertilize there is
no
> difference in plant vigor/blooms. if you forget to (as I have done), there
> seems to be less blooming, but no difference in leaf production.. that's
for
> lilies.

Interesting - what is "highland rim"?

[Mike Miller]

Do you fertilize the liles in gravel? Doesn't the N and P leak out and get
into the water this way? I'm just thinking of ways to avoid fertilizing the
string algae.


"Karen Mullen" > wrote in message
...
> In article <5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01>, "Mike Miller"
> > writes:
>
> >So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in
soil
> >of some type? How well do they grow?
>
> all my plants are in pea gravel and do very well. I fertilize the lilies
only,
> but add potash regularly.
>
> Karen
> Zone 5
> Ashland, OH
> http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
> My Art Studio at
> http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
> for email remove the extra extention
>
>
>
>
>

[Chagoi]

Mike Miller wrote:
>I did the studies a few years back comparing lily growth and bloom in pea
>gravel vs. soil. You need to be sure to use a slow release fertilizer that supplements
> agentssoil usually contains (minerals, etc), not just the N, Phosph and Potash
> I use what Longwood gardens uses.. highland rim. if you fertilize there is no
>difference in plant vigor/blooms. if you forget to (as I have done), there seems to be
>less blooming, but no difference in leaf production.. that's for lilies.
>
>
> Interesting - what is "highland rim"?


http://www.highlandrimaquatics.com/products/

[jammer]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 02:01:25 GMT, "Mike Miller" >
wrote:

> >So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in
>soil
>> >of some type? How well do they grow?

Taro, primrose, lillies, doing well in soil covered with rock. Celery
never took off and parrot feather looked great until the primrose
strangled it to death.

[Karen Mullen]

In article <Vbz2b.195190$cF.64280@rwcrnsc53>, "Mike Miller" >
writes:

>Do you fertilize the liles in gravel? Doesn't the N and P leak out and get
>into the water this way? I'm just thinking of ways to avoid fertilizing the
>string algae.

I do like Jan and line my pots with weed cloth then add the plants and fill the
basket. currently I have green water, but no string algae - long story!

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[Gregory Young]

Not very much if you use "solid" plastic containers.. those without the mesh
openings.
Happy ponding,
Greg

--


"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:Vbz2b.195190$cF.64280@rwcrnsc53...
> Do you fertilize the liles in gravel? Doesn't the N and P leak out and
get
> into the water this way? I'm just thinking of ways to avoid fertilizing
the
> string algae.
>
>
> "Karen Mullen" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01>, "Mike Miller"
> > > writes:
> >
> > >So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in
> soil
> > >of some type? How well do they grow?
> >
> > all my plants are in pea gravel and do very well. I fertilize the
lilies
> only,
> > but add potash regularly.
> >
> > Karen
> > Zone 5
> > Ashland, OH
> > http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
> > My Art Studio at
> > http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
> > for email remove the extra extention
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Gregory Young]

Forgot to mention. Many of the marginals I have in my pea gravel containing
pots are Louisiana irises, and not only do they jump the pots (one gallon),
if I don't transplant them every 2 seasons, but they consistently bloom
(which many up this way seem to have trouble in getting, why I am not sure)
I use no soil, for the reasons mentioned above. Plants certainly will do
great in soil, but my koi would get too nosey. They don't bother them at all
with the pea gravel/river rock combo, and they grow just as quickly, as they
did when I did use soil.
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"jammer" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 02:01:25 GMT, "Mike Miller" >
> wrote:
>
> > >So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in
> >soil
> >> >of some type? How well do they grow?
>
> Taro, primrose, lillies, doing well in soil covered with rock. Celery
> never took off and parrot feather looked great until the primrose
> strangled it to death.
>

[AngrieWoman]

This was my first year ponding, and I used gravel only. I only had some
grasses, and they did pretty food.

--

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:5l62b.245009$YN5.164904@sccrnsc01...
> I'm planning an expansion of my pond next year to deal with some issues I
> created. One of them is poor plant growth in marginals that are in clay
> soil but with no additional fertilizer.
>
> One one side of the argument is plants in clay/soil do better, but might
not
> be able to get at nutrients present in the pond, thus allowing string
algae
> to outcompete them as the clay "keeps" the nutrient flow away from the
> roots. (BTW, I'm not presenting this as fact, just trying to figure
things
> out!). I have to wonder about this when I see arrowroot growing huge in
the
> natural ponds around here, yet my in-kitty-litter arrowroot is but a puny
> shadow (well, it's also in a pot...). One could fertilize and they would
do
> better, but why add nutrients here if the pond is already producing SA,
> meaning there is excess N and P in the pond already? (I, like many of
you,
> add K regularly)
>
> On the other side is that plants in gravel or gravel beds, or just tossed
> into the water can take up nutrients in the water faster or better,
allowing
> them to grow better and (hopefully) out-compete the SA.
>
> I suppose pot size per plant would also be a factor here - perhaps my
> marginals need bigger pots? But I do know that the WH and other
> toss-them-into-the-pond type plants (parrot feather, et al) do fine.
>
> So, how about a poll. Whose marginals are in gravel and whose are in soil
> of some type? How well do they grow? Do you fertilize, or add K at all
to
> your pond? Maybe this could be a useful thread to collect some real life
> data.
>
>