Still green....

[Szpond]

I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I STILL
have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating" algae for
over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been rinsing
out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
cleaned once.

History: 2nd summer for pond.
SIze 14'x12'
Gallons: appx. 4200
Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
Fish 3 koi 6-7"
2 koi 3"
Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten by
the heron)
Waterfall and spitter
Full sun
Thanks for any ideas, suggestions. I didn't want to add chemicals to the pond,
but I'm ready too now. What works? I have been using BZT, no help, no change.
Thanks, Cathy

[Sam Hopkins]

Cathy is your water green or is floating algae you problem?

I'd recommend two things:

Clean out as much algae/debris you can. Stop feeding your fish for 2 weeks.
See if you see an improvement.

If your water is green get a UV filter. They're expensive but once you have
one you will not know how you lived without one. I know I can't live without
mine.

Sam


"Szpond" > wrote in message
...
> I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I
STILL
> have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
> really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating"
algae for
> over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
> plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
> Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
> constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been
rinsing
> out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
> cleaned once.
>
> History: 2nd summer for pond.
> SIze 14'x12'
> Gallons: appx. 4200
> Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
> Fish 3 koi 6-7"
> 2 koi 3"
> Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten
by
> the heron)
> Waterfall and spitter
> Full sun
> Thanks for any ideas, suggestions. I didn't want to add chemicals to the
pond,
> but I'm ready too now. What works? I have been using BZT, no help, no
change.
> Thanks, Cathy

[[email protected]]

is your biofilter covered?
clean the filter every day if you need to get the green slimy crap off cause it is
smothering the biobugs. or, put some polyester batting in to collect the crud,
replace when it gets slimed.
sounds like your bioload has increased. what and how often are you feeding the fish?
can you shade part of the pond?
how much extra aeration do you have? I think BZT requires pretty good aeration to
break down organics. Ingrid

(Szpond) wrote:

>I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I STILL
>have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
>really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating" algae for
>over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
>plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
>Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
>constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been rinsing
>out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
>cleaned once.
>
>History: 2nd summer for pond.
> SIze 14'x12'
> Gallons: appx. 4200
> Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
> Fish 3 koi 6-7"
> 2 koi 3"
> Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten by
>the heron)
> Waterfall and spitter
> Full sun
>Thanks for any ideas, suggestions. I didn't want to add chemicals to the pond,
>but I'm ready too now. What works? I have been using BZT, no help, no change.
>Thanks, Cathy



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[April1201]

You could add floating plants for shade. Ours is at least half covered and
we've got clear water. My husband complains about seeing the fish, but just
push it out of the way and enjoy.
--------------------------------------
Subject: Still green....
From: (Szpond)
Date: 08/28/2003 4:30 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: >

I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I STILL
have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating" algae for
over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been rinsing
out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
cleaned once.

History: 2nd summer for pond.
SIze 14'x12'
Gallons: appx. 4200
Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
Fish 3 koi 6-7"
2 koi 3"
Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten by
the heron)
Waterfall and spitter
Full sun
Thanks for any ideas, suggestions. I didn't want to add chemicals to the pond,
but I'm ready too now. What works? I have been using BZT, no help, no change.
Thanks, Cathy

[MattR]

Here are my 2 cents only because I think I went through the same thing.
I could see 3 inches into the water and the plants were feeble at best.

first of all, no matter what, the fish like the algae, they're happy, so
be happy.

By washing your filter out every week you're washing off the bacteria
that will help kill the algae. You're also washing off the other
bacteria that remove the ammonia, but since you have such a small number
of fish that probably doesn't matter. If you want to know what I'm
talking about with regard to bacteria killing algae take a look at
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/GRENH2O.html. This seems to explain what
is going on with my pond, even though nobody else seems to talk about this.

I have a prefilter to catch the gunk. I have a contraption with a 4' x
4' piece of nylon batting that I run the water through before it get's
to my filter. I rinse the batting out once a week and it has a ton of
green gunk in it. I have it set up so I can tell when it's getting full.

What kind of filter media do you have? I used to have something like
pea gravel (only much smaller) and it plugged up with the green crud. I
replaced it with media that has more open space in it. I use straws.
Strapping tape and stuff like that would work well.

It took a month for the filter to mature and help clean the algae out.
My pond is oscillating now. Some days I can see 2 feet down, some days
clear to the bottom (3 ft). I figure anything beyond 1.5 feet is gravy
because I can see the fish fine. My plants are doing much better. I'm
hoping some day I'll have enough plants that are healthy enough that the
green gunk in the prefilter won't be a problem anymore.

Good luck.

Matt


Szpond wrote:
> I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I STILL
> have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
> really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating" algae for
> over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
> plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
> Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
> constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been rinsing
> out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
> cleaned once.
>
> History: 2nd summer for pond.
> SIze 14'x12'
> Gallons: appx. 4200
> Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
> Fish 3 koi 6-7"
> 2 koi 3"
> Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten by
> the heron)
> Waterfall and spitter
> Full sun
> Thanks for any ideas, suggestions. I didn't want to add chemicals to the pond,
> but I'm ready too now. What works? I have been using BZT, no help, no change.
> Thanks, Cathy

[K30a]

Nutrients for algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized run off, rotting
plants, blown in dirt.
Dry to reduce or eliminate one or more of these.
I agree with Ingrid, try shading the pond.


k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[BenignVanilla]

"Szpond" > wrote in message
...
> I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I
STILL
> have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
> really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating"
algae for
> over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
> plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
> Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
> constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been
rinsing
> out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
> cleaned once.
>
> History: 2nd summer for pond.
> SIze 14'x12'
> Gallons: appx. 4200
> Depth: 2 1/2 - 4' deep
> Fish 3 koi 6-7"
> 2 koi 3"
> Baby comets (maybe 40) from last year - (their mommies eaten
by
> the heron)
> Waterfall and spitter
> Full sun

85 gallons seems like a small filter for 4200 gallons...

....stop feeding fish
....add floating plants to compete with algae and to shade pond a bit
....my understanding is that bzt eats mulm...maybe you are feeding your algae
blooms with dead mulm...stop bzt for awhile

BV.

[Matt Helliwell]

Szpond wrote:

> I've written for suggestions before, and have tried them all...but, I STILL
> have a nasty, green pond. I had clear water for 1 week since spring. I'm
> really discouraged and do not know what to do. I had that "floating" algae for
> over a month, that has stopped, but I still can't see my fish. Plenty of
> plants, although they are not doing half as well as they did last year.
> Bio-filter (85 gallon) which is just full of green, gummy, slimy crap
> constantly. I think I might be defeating my own purpose - have been rinsing
> out filter and media weekly - it gets that gummed up. Last year we only
> cleaned once.

This may be obvious but I take it you're cleaning the filters with
pond/de-chorinated water and not tap water?

--
Matt Helliwell
www.helliwell.me.uk
matt at helliwell dot me dot uk

[[email protected]]

not if this is the gross or mechanical filter, and not even if it is the biofilter as
long as treated water is used. the biobugs adhere in colonies to the filter
material. what is normally rinsed off is the mulm and silt that are covering the
colonies and keeping oxygen from them. Ingrid

MattR > wrote:
>By washing your filter out every week you're washing off the bacteria
>that will help kill the algae. You're also washing off the other
>bacteria that remove the ammonia,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MattR]

I was thinking of the green gunk I see, in which case the water has to
be under pressure and probably comes from a hose. I suppose this might
not be the case. Then again, if the media is full of gunk, where's the
bacteria going to sit where it's not smothered by gunk and is in contact
with passing water?

Matt


wrote:
> not if this is the gross or mechanical filter, and not even if it is the biofilter as
> long as treated water is used. the biobugs adhere in colonies to the filter
> material. what is normally rinsed off is the mulm and silt that are covering the
> colonies and keeping oxygen from them. Ingrid
>
> MattR > wrote:
>
>>By washing your filter out every week you're washing off the bacteria
>>that will help kill the algae. You're also washing off the other
>>bacteria that remove the ammonia,
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[MattR]

K30a wrote:[i]
> Nutrients for algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized run off, rotting
> plants, blown in dirt.
> Dry to reduce or eliminate one or more of these.
> I agree with Ingrid, try shading the pond.

Try reading that web page I referenced. He says shading the pond to
remove algae is a myth, as well as the idea that algae blooms are caused
by various nutrient concentrations. Based on his tests he said that
there's a byproduct from a type of bacteria that consume dead algae and
that is toxic to algae. So, Cathy's pond or filter needs a place for
some amount of rotting algae and it needs to sit there for a month.
This is why I said some sort of prefilter would enable Cathy to leave
her main filter alone long enough for this other type of bacteria to do
its thing. This is exactly what I did and now my pond is clear. This is
after 2 years of trying things I read on this newsgroup and getting
frustrated, as it sounds like Cathy is.

A uv filter would also kill the soup type algae and would do it sooner.
But eventually the filter will have to work correctly because the
fish load will increase to the point where ammonia is a problem. Of
course, with 4200 gallons and 2 small koi, 2 tiny koi, and 40 small
fish, this is going to be a few years. Anyway, as soon as the filter is
working the uv filter might not be needed anymore.

Since I just talked about Norm Meck's web page with "~jan JJsP" (see the
thread "pond filter") I'm signing off from this thread. Anyone can send
me email if they have questions.

Matt

[K30a]

MattR wrote << Try reading that web page I referenced. <<

I read the web page you referenced when I
originally posted it in my green water tips.
I think that is where you found it.

>> He says shading the pond to
remove algae is a myth, as well as the idea that algae blooms are caused
by various nutrient concentrations.<<

I don't agree with him.
Sun is a nutrient for algae.
It's called photosynthesis.
Also disagree with him about various nutrients.

I think putting in a mech/bio filter works because
the mechcanical filter works because it collects some of the mulm in the
mechcanical part. And that is why people think the biofilter is the magic
bullet.

I've had a clear pond for years. I think that gives me the right to post my
suggestions.
I took out the web page you referenced. Caused too many problems here lately. I
originally included it as just another idea but I don't like the tone of the
page anymore.
Now you can reference all you want but I stand by my assertion that shade will
help cut back on single cell algae. And too many nutrients are not a good
thing, for algae, for fish.

>>Since I just talked about Norm Meck's web page with "~jan JJsP" (see the
thread "pond filter") I'm signing off from this thread. <<

Yes, I read it, it drove me slightly batty so I removed the reference to his
page. It seems to be very koi-centric and we mostly have water gardeners with
fish here. Since you are signing off this thread, I'll include this in email.

k30a
and the watergardening labradors
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:42:46 -0400, "BenignVanilla" wrote:

>85 gallons seems like a small filter for 4200 gallons...

(Putting on Superior Being hat again, I'm just not getting those more
important things on my list done, so it will take awhile, please be
patient. Re: Apology Accepted if you have no clue what I'm kidding about.)

BINGO! IMSBO. ;o) Whenever you are having to clean your bio-filter more
than once a year, you need more filter. If I had a 4200 gallon pond I'd
have at least 2 of my filters (150 gallons of filter) going on it. Probably
with the current light fish load, 1 would work, but you couldn't blast
4,000 gallons thru it in an hour. Maybe 2,000 - 2,500 using 3"-4" bulkhead
fittings. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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