Ponds over the winter

[Iain Miller]

I was just thinking about one or two things & was wondering what happens to
the oxygen levels in the pond over the winter if all the
filtration/circulation is switched off. I know the fish go very quiet & hang
out down the bottom but surely the water down there gets pretty oxygen
depleted? As I understand it water is actually at its most dense at about 4
degrees C (39F) so in the height of winter its quite likely that the pond is
actually warmer at the bottom than the top. If this is so then its obviously
not a good idea to circulate the water out the bottom of the pond in mid
winter (assuming filters use a bottom drain etc) which means the filters
really do need to be turned off....

What's the general concensus - how do the fish survive in an oxygen depleted
environment?

I.

[RichToyBox]

Cold water holds more oxygen than warm water. The fish are not using much
oxygen, in their winter stupor. If you do not freeze, I believe the pond
should be kept running, filters and everything. If you do have heavy
freezes, where the pond is going to freeze over and stay frozen for some
period of time, some means of keeping a hole in the ice is needed to allow
the toxic gasses to escape and oxygen to get into the water. The most
common methods are the use of an air stone, which keeps the water moving
near the surface, and moving water is much harder to get to freeze. The
other is the use of a pump to again disturb the surface of the pond. The
air stone and the pump should be mounted fairly close to the surface.

As for disturbing the bottom water, I don't think our ponds are really deep
enough to get a real thermal layer that could be stirred up, but the heat of
the earth, always around 50 degrees a few feet below the frost line, sends
heat up and through the liner, making the bottom water warmer, though some
of the heat moves upward and escapes. The fish hang close to the liner,
where the heat is coming from.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Iain Miller" > wrote in message
...
> I was just thinking about one or two things & was wondering what happens
to
> the oxygen levels in the pond over the winter if all the
> filtration/circulation is switched off. I know the fish go very quiet &
hang
> out down the bottom but surely the water down there gets pretty oxygen
> depleted? As I understand it water is actually at its most dense at about
4
> degrees C (39F) so in the height of winter its quite likely that the pond
is
> actually warmer at the bottom than the top. If this is so then its
obviously
> not a good idea to circulate the water out the bottom of the pond in mid
> winter (assuming filters use a bottom drain etc) which means the filters
> really do need to be turned off....
>
> What's the general concensus - how do the fish survive in an oxygen
depleted
> environment?
>
> I.
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Cold water holds more oxygen than warm water. The fish are not using much
oxygen, in their winter stupor. If you do not freeze, I believe the pond
should be kept running, filters and everything. If you do have heavy
freezes, where the pond is going to freeze over and stay frozen for some
period of time, some means of keeping a hole in the ice is needed to allow
the toxic gasses to escape and oxygen to get into the water. The most
common methods are the use of an air stone, which keeps the water moving
near the surface, and moving water is much harder to get to freeze. The
other is the use of a pump to again disturb the surface of the pond. The
air stone and the pump should be mounted fairly close to the surface.

As for disturbing the bottom water, I don't think our ponds are really deep
enough to get a real thermal layer that could be stirred up, but the heat of
the earth, always around 50 degrees a few feet below the frost line, sends
heat up and through the liner, making the bottom water warmer, though some
of the heat moves upward and escapes. The fish hang close to the liner,
where the heat is coming from.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Iain Miller" > wrote in message
...
> I was just thinking about one or two things & was wondering what happens
to
> the oxygen levels in the pond over the winter if all the
> filtration/circulation is switched off. I know the fish go very quiet &
hang
> out down the bottom but surely the water down there gets pretty oxygen
> depleted? As I understand it water is actually at its most dense at about
4
> degrees C (39F) so in the height of winter its quite likely that the pond
is
> actually warmer at the bottom than the top. If this is so then its
obviously
> not a good idea to circulate the water out the bottom of the pond in mid
> winter (assuming filters use a bottom drain etc) which means the filters
> really do need to be turned off....
>
> What's the general concensus - how do the fish survive in an oxygen
depleted
> environment?
>
> I.
>
>

[[email protected]]

yeah, I put a plastic tent over my pond in the frozen tundra zone 5. but I put my
pump into a bucket filter and hang that inside. it both filter crud outta the water
and oxygenates well enough and keeps the surface of the water ice free all winter.
best is it will work even if we have a power outage for a while and the pond does
freeze over. Ingrid

"Iain Miller" > wrote:

>I was just thinking about one or two things & was wondering what happens to
>the oxygen levels in the pond over the winter if all the
>filtration/circulation is switched off. I know the fish go very quiet & hang
>out down the bottom but surely the water down there gets pretty oxygen
>depleted? As I understand it water is actually at its most dense at about 4
>degrees C (39F) so in the height of winter its quite likely that the pond is
>actually warmer at the bottom than the top. If this is so then its obviously
>not a good idea to circulate the water out the bottom of the pond in mid
>winter (assuming filters use a bottom drain etc) which means the filters
>really do need to be turned off....
>
>What's the general concensus - how do the fish survive in an oxygen depleted
>environment?
>
>I.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

yeah, I put a plastic tent over my pond in the frozen tundra zone 5. but I put my
pump into a bucket filter and hang that inside. it both filter crud outta the water
and oxygenates well enough and keeps the surface of the water ice free all winter.
best is it will work even if we have a power outage for a while and the pond does
freeze over. Ingrid

"Iain Miller" > wrote:

>I was just thinking about one or two things & was wondering what happens to
>the oxygen levels in the pond over the winter if all the
>filtration/circulation is switched off. I know the fish go very quiet & hang
>out down the bottom but surely the water down there gets pretty oxygen
>depleted? As I understand it water is actually at its most dense at about 4
>degrees C (39F) so in the height of winter its quite likely that the pond is
>actually warmer at the bottom than the top. If this is so then its obviously
>not a good idea to circulate the water out the bottom of the pond in mid
>winter (assuming filters use a bottom drain etc) which means the filters
>really do need to be turned off....
>
>What's the general concensus - how do the fish survive in an oxygen depleted
>environment?
>
>I.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[RichToyBox]

I have a picture of the frame for my cover on
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondpage3.html. The picture was taken
in the spring, after the plastic covering was removed, but before I removed
the frame.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> do You (or anyone else) have pics of winter covered ponds??
>
> I am trying to 'suggest' to my hubby to do this, but he feels it would
> collapse (or rip) under the weight of snow.
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > yeah, I put a plastic tent over my pond in the frozen tundra zone 5.
but
> I put my
> > pump into a bucket filter and hang that inside. it both filter crud
outta
> the water
> > and oxygenates well enough and keeps the surface of the water ice free
all
> winter.
> > best is it will work even if we have a power outage for a while and the
> pond does
> > freeze over. Ingrid
> >
> > "
>
>

[RichToyBox]

I have a picture of the frame for my cover on
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondpage3.html. The picture was taken
in the spring, after the plastic covering was removed, but before I removed
the frame.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"*muffin*" > wrote in message
...
> do You (or anyone else) have pics of winter covered ponds??
>
> I am trying to 'suggest' to my hubby to do this, but he feels it would
> collapse (or rip) under the weight of snow.
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > yeah, I put a plastic tent over my pond in the frozen tundra zone 5.
but
> I put my
> > pump into a bucket filter and hang that inside. it both filter crud
outta
> the water
> > and oxygenates well enough and keeps the surface of the water ice free
all
> winter.
> > best is it will work even if we have a power outage for a while and the
> pond does
> > freeze over. Ingrid
> >
> > "
>
>

[[email protected]]

NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid

jammer > wrote:

>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid

jammer > wrote:

>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[jammer]

Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)



On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:

>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>
>jammer > wrote:
>
>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

[jammer]

Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)



On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:

>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>
>jammer > wrote:
>
>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan

>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0500, jammer > wrote:

>Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)
>
>
>
>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:
>
>>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>>
>>jammer > wrote:
>>
>>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>endorsements or recommendations I make.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan

>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0500, jammer > wrote:

>Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)
>
>
>
>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:
>
>>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>>
>>jammer > wrote:
>>
>>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>endorsements or recommendations I make.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[jammer]

No, of course they don't! I meant for spawning during the spring.


On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:37:56 GMT, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan
>
>>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0500, jammer > wrote:
>
>>Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>>>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>>>
>>>jammer > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>>www.drsolo.com
>>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>See my ponds and filter design:
>http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[jammer]

No, of course they don't! I meant for spawning during the spring.


On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:37:56 GMT, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan
>
>>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0500, jammer > wrote:
>
>>Ok, then i do not want one. Thank you:)
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:47:28 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>NO! they arent wanted, and couldnt get thru the netting anyway. I havent even seen
>>>dragonflies try to get thru the netting. Ingrid
>>>
>>>jammer > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ingrid, that's pretty cool. Do toads ever find their way in there?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>>www.drsolo.com
>>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>See my ponds and filter design:
>http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[[email protected]]

In >, on 09/01/03
at 03:37 PM, ~ jan JJsPond.us > said:

>I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan

Nope. Pond-dwelling frogs (and turtles) do. Toads hibernate on land, as
do land turtles.


Alan (still waiting for a spring toad orgy in my pond)

--

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[[email protected]]

In >, on 09/01/03
at 03:37 PM, ~ jan JJsPond.us > said:

>I don't believe toads winter under water anyway. ~ jan

Nope. Pond-dwelling frogs (and turtles) do. Toads hibernate on land, as
do land turtles.


Alan (still waiting for a spring toad orgy in my pond)

--

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**** Please use address alanh(at)min.net to reply via e-mail. ****

Posted using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564

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[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:25:49 -0500, jammer > wrote:

>No, of course they don't! I meant for spawning during the spring.

One would have the green house off by that time I would surmise.
~ jan :o)

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:25:49 -0500, jammer > wrote:

>No, of course they don't! I meant for spawning during the spring.

One would have the green house off by that time I would surmise.
~ jan :o)

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website