Newbie-How Many Fish?

[JJG]

My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
tank clean)?

Thanks in advance for you help!

[Iain Miller]

"JJG" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
> African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
> another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
> in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
> tank clean)?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help!

First thing you need to do is read up on the nitrogen cycle. Pretty soon
toxins (ammonia and Nitrite) will start building in the tank. These will
then decline back to zero as the bio filter kicks in but it can take a good
number of weeks for it to happen - basically bacterial colonies develop that
deal with the Ammonia and turn it into Nitrite and then another one develops
that eats the Nitrite & turns it into Nitrate which is relatively harmless
to fish. That said you need to manage the nitrAte & you do that by changing
10-15% of the water in the tank every week or so. The ammonia is given off
by the fish poop and rotting matter. The more you feed the more of the
latter there will be so don't over feed! Feed as much as they will eat in
2-3 minutes twice a day. A slightly hungry fish is more likely to stay a
healthy fish.

You need to manage these toxins or you will have a dead fish & I would guess
frog as well. The Tetra will not tolerate a lot of this at all. Assuming you
have set this up in the last week you need to act on this quickly - the
ammonia will be rising now - the Nitrite comes inside the next week or two.
If you see the fish gasping at the surface then you know its struggling -
not for air but because of the toxins & you should change some water
immediately.

The shortcut would be to go back to your LFS (or find a friendly local
aquarium keeper) and get either some gravel/sand from one of their tanks or
better yet a piece of used filter wool/sponge from one of their filters.
This will carry the essential bacteria you need and so will kick start your
own filtration very much more quickly. If you go there then take a sample of
your water - they will test it for you for ammonia & nitrite & you will know
where you are. You only need a small amount in a jar for them to test.

If you don't have them you then should buy test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite
as a minimum. You need to watch these for the first few weeks - testing
every day if necessary. Once the filter is established you will have less
need of these.

If the levels rise too high then change some water making sure to use a
suitable dechlorinator - ask your LFS if there is Chlorine or Chloramine in
your local water supply & make sure you get dechlor that will deal with
chloramine specifically if you have it. Also make sure you match the
temperature of any new water you put in the tank to the water in the tank
itself as close as you can (within 2-3 deg F. in a tank that small). Add the
dechlor to the bucket of water before you put it in the tank .

If you have some kind of small power filter then when you clean it do so
only in a bucket of water from the tank - it doesn't need to be spotless
just rinse away the worst of the junk. If you use some kind of filter with
sponges/wool etc in it NEVER clean it under the tap - you will kill all the
bio bugs & end up back at square one. If you use an under gravel filter then
vacuum out the worst of the rubbish with a syphon as part of your water
change routine.

5 gallons is a very small tank & so the toxin levels will rise quite
quickly. Its not unmanageable at all but you will need to watch it closely
till it stabilises otherwise you may have a very unhappy little girl on your
hands.

Don't know a lot about frogs & how big they get so suggest you ask the LFS
as to populations

HTH, good luck.

I.

[Fish Keeper]

for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
a frog and a little fish.
if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all
that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with
exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that
would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and
dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.

[Iain Miller]

"Fish Keeper" > wrote in message
...
> for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
> a frog and a little fish.
> if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
> fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all
> that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with
> exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that
> would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
> change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and
> dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm sure the OP wants this thing to
work & the more you know about what's going on the more likely it is to do
so. Next step might be to get a bigger tank with more fish - who knows.
Either way the cycle applies whether its 5 gallons or 500 gallons. My kids
(5&7) help look after the two tanks we now have & the testing is all part of
it - indeed, they remind me to do it from time to time & they enjoy knowing
that we are doing the best we can for our fish. They also learn from it.

A while back we set up a 10G with only two platties in it & we had more
problems cyclling that than with either of the two bigger tanks we now
have - Nitrites nearly went off the scale (probably because we over fed -
hence the stuff I wrote about not doing so).

I.

[Geezer From Freezer]

I agree with Iain. The price and size of the animals living in the tank is
regardless. Giving an animal the best conditions is the best solution.

Saying to ignore test kits is ignorant!

Iain Miller wrote:
>
> "Fish Keeper" > wrote in message
> ...
> > for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
> > a frog and a little fish.
> > if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
> > fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all
> > that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with
> > exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that
> > would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
> > change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and
> > dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.
>
> We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm sure the OP wants this thing to
> work & the more you know about what's going on the more likely it is to do
> so. Next step might be to get a bigger tank with more fish - who knows.
> Either way the cycle applies whether its 5 gallons or 500 gallons. My kids
> (5&7) help look after the two tanks we now have & the testing is all part of
> it - indeed, they remind me to do it from time to time & they enjoy knowing
> that we are doing the best we can for our fish. They also learn from it.
>
> A while back we set up a 10G with only two platties in it & we had more
> problems cyclling that than with either of the two bigger tanks we now
> have - Nitrites nearly went off the scale (probably because we over fed -
> hence the stuff I wrote about not doing so).
>
> I.

[Here FishyFishy]

i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
on. what's your water parameters???

what about all those poor bettas that are stuck in tea cups and plant
vases?????? should we do something about that? what about goldfish in
a bowl??? how does one cycle a vase??
just because someone calls there container an aquarium doesn't mean you
have to go spend tons of money on test kits and chemicals.
sure you need to be careful, use dechlorinator and watch the number of
fish and the amount of food you put in your "container" and the animals
we care for deserve our best intentions but i think starting a little 5
gallon tank with a frog is different and little kids and mom's don't
need to be afraid of starting a fun and exciting hobby.

there are people in this group with the best equipment known to man and
all the test kits, microscopes and chemicals you could imagine and still
can't keep a tank of fish alive and healthy.

all you really need is common sense and a love for the hobby (and take
what is said in this group with a grain of salt as everyone has an
opinion and a way that works for them).
i'll get off my soapbox now (my i feel better).

[Jim]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:26:01 -0700 (MST), (Here
FishyFishy) wrote:

>i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
>on. what's your water parameters???
>
<snip>
>all you really need is common sense and a love for the hobby (and take
>what is said in this group with a grain of salt as everyone has an
>opinion and a way that works for them).
>i'll get off my soapbox now (my i feel better).
I've started my 9 year old son with two tanks, a small 2 gal. tank
with a Betta, and a 10 gal. with a few starter fish. (Platys and
Swordtails)
The only water testing that that I've been teaching him so far
is "How does the water smell and is it fairly clear."

I do some checks just to make sure, but he has learned that
overfeeding caused some of his fish to die. Was that it exactly?
I'm not completely sure, but he learned an important lesson and
is now much more careful about feeding.

Jim

[Geezer From Freezer]

Here FishyFishy wrote:
>
> i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
> on. what's your water parameters???
>
too much testing? you're having a larf - oh and how come you and Fish Keeper
come from same
ISP - same person perhaps?

[JJG]

Thank you to everyone for responding. I actually did buy some testng
strips - so far everything is coming out fine - except that we have
very hard water. I added a Panda Cory to the mix and will probably
add one more frog. I did a 25% water change at the end of the first
week and will continue to do weekly water changes going forward. The
creatures all seem to be doing well. I appreciate all of your input.

Geezer From Freezer > wrote in message >...
> Here FishyFishy wrote:
> >
> > i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
> > on. what's your water parameters???
> >
> too much testing? you're having a larf - oh and how come you and Fish Keeper
> come from same
> ISP - same person perhaps?

[Jason Allen Finnigan]

I would get a real small pleco if you want a cleaner fish and maybe a couple
of Black Skirt Tetras or any tetra just check the maximum size they will get
because a good rule of thumb is 1 gallon of water for each inch of fish I
might also put some freshwater invertebrates instead of the pleco because 1
they look cooler 2 they will clean the tank and 3 there smaller which is
what you want for a small tank

finni

"JJG" > wrote in message
om...
> My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
> African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
> another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
> in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
> tank clean)?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help!
>