Question from newbie!

[Janette]

We have a 70 gallon tank that has been set up as a freshwater tank for the
past 6 years. A week ago yesterday we changed it over to a sal****er tank,
so we are very new at this. We have added 4 damsels to the tank 5 days ago
to help cycle it through, but our Ammonia and Nitrates are both pretty high.
Nitrites and salinity are fine. Apparently this is normal and could last
awhile says the "experts" at our local sal****er fish store. How long can
we expect to wait until our levels level out and drop to the normal level?
I know we shouldn't add any other fish until this happens.

Thanks for any input!

Janette
remove word SPAM to reply

[Dragon Slayer]

depending on what is in the tank as far as a surface for your bio filter
bacteria to accumulate on. you do need to do more research and NEVER use
fish to cycle a tank. its very stressful/lethal on fish and not to mention
not very nice. a raw shrimp from a seafood market will cycle a tank in a
very short amount of time and is what some conceder more ethical.

hth
kc

"Janette" > wrote in message
news:TEelb.5871$5c2.930@okepread03...
> We have a 70 gallon tank that has been set up as a freshwater tank for the
> past 6 years. A week ago yesterday we changed it over to a sal****er
tank,
> so we are very new at this. We have added 4 damsels to the tank 5 days
ago
> to help cycle it through, but our Ammonia and Nitrates are both pretty
high.
> Nitrites and salinity are fine. Apparently this is normal and could last
> awhile says the "experts" at our local sal****er fish store. How long can
> we expect to wait until our levels level out and drop to the normal level?
> I know we shouldn't add any other fish until this happens.
>
> Thanks for any input!
>
> Janette
> remove word SPAM to reply
>
>

[Janette]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> depending on what is in the tank as far as a surface for your bio filter
> bacteria to accumulate on. you do need to do more research and NEVER use
> fish to cycle a tank. its very stressful/lethal on fish and not to
mention
> not very nice. a raw shrimp from a seafood market will cycle a tank in a
> very short amount of time and is what some conceder more ethical.
>
> hth
> kc

We have crushed coral in the bottom of the tank. As for using the fish to
cycle the tank, we put them in there 4 days after converting the tank...they
are doing just great. We were told to only use damsels since they are so
hardy. No one mentioned using raw shrimp!

Thanks!

Janette

[Dragon Slayer]

>
> We have crushed coral in the bottom of the tank. As for using the fish to
> cycle the tank, we put them in there 4 days after converting the
tank...they
> are doing just great. We were told to only use damsels since they are so
> hardy. No one mentioned using raw shrimp!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Janette
>
Janette, the lfs is out to sell you fish we in the NG are not so our advice
is most often more in the lines to help you be successful and theirs is so
you aren't and you spend more money before you get so frustrated you quite.

damsels are hardy fish, but there is no need to stress/kill them by having
them in a tank while it cycles. a marine tank is as different as night and
day from a tropical (fresh water) setup. everything you know about fresh
water tanks, you can toss it all out the door when dealing with your new
marine tank.

damsels are not only hardy but very aggressive, territorial fish that are
going to cause problems later on when you want to add other more attractive,
friendly fish.

your crushed coral substrate is considered by many (not myself) as a nitrate
factory, as it traps junk that isn't accessible to your fish or clean up
crew. you don't mention if you have an UGF (under gravel filter) or not,
you will find many who suggest you yank it out because of problems later on
with it, but I honestly cant tell you to do that. yes a lot of people have
problems with UGF's in marine tanks, I do not. it has a lot to do with
proper cleaning/vacuuming of the substrate.

what are your future plans as stocking the tank? what do you want to keep
in the tank in the end?


hope you don't take any offence to my reply's, I am here to help but I tend
to be blunt and to the point.

kc

[RedForeman ©®]

so you are Pro-UGF?

how is it set up, and what substrate do you use???


"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > We have crushed coral in the bottom of the tank. As for using the fish
to
> > cycle the tank, we put them in there 4 days after converting the
> tank...they
> > are doing just great. We were told to only use damsels since they are
so
> > hardy. No one mentioned using raw shrimp!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Janette
> >
> Janette, the lfs is out to sell you fish we in the NG are not so our
advice
> is most often more in the lines to help you be successful and theirs is
so
> you aren't and you spend more money before you get so frustrated you
quite.
>
> damsels are hardy fish, but there is no need to stress/kill them by having
> them in a tank while it cycles. a marine tank is as different as night
and
> day from a tropical (fresh water) setup. everything you know about fresh
> water tanks, you can toss it all out the door when dealing with your new
> marine tank.
>
> damsels are not only hardy but very aggressive, territorial fish that are
> going to cause problems later on when you want to add other more
attractive,
> friendly fish.
>
> your crushed coral substrate is considered by many (not myself) as a
nitrate
> factory, as it traps junk that isn't accessible to your fish or clean up
> crew. you don't mention if you have an UGF (under gravel filter) or not,
> you will find many who suggest you yank it out because of problems later
on
> with it, but I honestly cant tell you to do that. yes a lot of people
have
> problems with UGF's in marine tanks, I do not. it has a lot to do with
> proper cleaning/vacuuming of the substrate.
>
> what are your future plans as stocking the tank? what do you want to keep
> in the tank in the end?
>
>
> hope you don't take any offence to my reply's, I am here to help but I
tend
> to be blunt and to the point.
>
> kc
>
>
>

[Janette]

"> Janette, the lfs is out to sell you fish we in the NG are not so our
advice
> is most often more in the lines to help you be successful and theirs is
so
> you aren't and you spend more money before you get so frustrated you
quite.
>
> damsels are hardy fish, but there is no need to stress/kill them by having
> them in a tank while it cycles. a marine tank is as different as night
and
> day from a tropical (fresh water) setup. everything you know about fresh
> water tanks, you can toss it all out the door when dealing with your new
> marine tank.
>
> damsels are not only hardy but very aggressive, territorial fish that are
> going to cause problems later on when you want to add other more
attractive,
> friendly fish.
>
> your crushed coral substrate is considered by many (not myself) as a
nitrate
> factory, as it traps junk that isn't accessible to your fish or clean up
> crew. you don't mention if you have an UGF (under gravel filter) or not,
> you will find many who suggest you yank it out because of problems later
on
> with it, but I honestly cant tell you to do that. yes a lot of people
have
> problems with UGF's in marine tanks, I do not. it has a lot to do with
> proper cleaning/vacuuming of the substrate.
>
> what are your future plans as stocking the tank? what do you want to keep
> in the tank in the end?
>
>
> hope you don't take any offence to my reply's, I am here to help but I
tend
> to be blunt and to the point.
>
> kc

Thanks kc! I don't find offence to your reply's at all. No, we don't have
an UGF, we have a biowheel on the back of the tank. As for the info on the
using the damsels, I'm glad they are doing so well and don't appear to be
stressed...we obviously wouldn't intentionally get fish just to harm
them...just doing what we were "told" to use. Also, on the crushed
coral...the lfs told us the pros and cons of that, but said to only put a
small layer in the tank so that its easier to keep clean, etc...so thats
what we have done!

As for future plans, we know we are going to start out slow and "easy" so
that we don't waste a lot of money on fish that we can't keep alive. We
have heard that many sal****er fish are sensitive to the slightest changes
in ph, salinity, etc. For now, I would like to have a few tangs and some
clown fish....other than that I dont have anything specific in mind. Hubby
wants to have live coral at some point, but I know thats down the road a bit
for us!

Janette

[Fishnut]

>As for future plans, we know we are going to start out slow and "easy" so
>that we don't waste a lot of money on fish that we can't keep alive. We
>have heard that many sal****er fish are sensitive to the slightest changes
>in ph, salinity, etc. For now, I would like to have a few tangs and some
>clown fish....other than that I dont have anything specific in mind. Hubby
>wants to have live coral at some point, but I know thats down the road a bit
>for us!
>
>Janette
>
>
Janette,

Clown fish are normally tough, and even though they are damsels, they
don't usually show the aggression of other damsels. Make sure that you
only keep 1 species of clownfish - 1 species normally won't accept
another type.
The tangs are usually very sensitive to water conditions, so I think
you ought to forget about them until you have a bit more experience.

Best wishes, Fishnut.

[Janette]

> Janette,
>
> Clown fish are normally tough, and even though they are damsels, they
> don't usually show the aggression of other damsels. Make sure that you
> only keep 1 species of clownfish - 1 species normally won't accept
> another type.
> The tangs are usually very sensitive to water conditions, so I think
> you ought to forget about them until you have a bit more experience.
>
> Best wishes, Fishnut.

Thanks for the info on both of those. Any suggestions on what we should
start out with? I was only going buy what I have seen online and in our
books we have purchased.

Janette

[Dragon Slayer]

I wouldn't call myself "pro" for it, but it works and it works well, for ME.

it may or may not for you, and I wont tell you to do/not do it in your
setup.

I'll have to let you call that shot.

mine is setup as follows:

5" CC substrate with 2x400 gph ph's and its in a standard 75 gallon tank.
it's been setup for a few years this way and gets vacuumed a few times a
year. my A.N.N. are all 0's and all corals thrived in it. I just recently
converted it to predator tank and after 3 weeks NO3 is still undetectable
and my trigger is quite messy of the eater.

kc

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> so you are Pro-UGF?
>
> how is it set up, and what substrate do you use???
>
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >
> > > We have crushed coral in the bottom of the tank. As for using the
fish
> to
> > > cycle the tank, we put them in there 4 days after converting the
> > tank...they
> > > are doing just great. We were told to only use damsels since they are
> so
> > > hardy. No one mentioned using raw shrimp!
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Janette
> > >
> > Janette, the lfs is out to sell you fish we in the NG are not so our
> advice
> > is most often more in the lines to help you be successful and theirs is
> so
> > you aren't and you spend more money before you get so frustrated you
> quite.
> >
> > damsels are hardy fish, but there is no need to stress/kill them by
having
> > them in a tank while it cycles. a marine tank is as different as night
> and
> > day from a tropical (fresh water) setup. everything you know about
fresh
> > water tanks, you can toss it all out the door when dealing with your new
> > marine tank.
> >
> > damsels are not only hardy but very aggressive, territorial fish that
are
> > going to cause problems later on when you want to add other more
> attractive,
> > friendly fish.
> >
> > your crushed coral substrate is considered by many (not myself) as a
> nitrate
> > factory, as it traps junk that isn't accessible to your fish or clean up
> > crew. you don't mention if you have an UGF (under gravel filter) or
not,
> > you will find many who suggest you yank it out because of problems later
> on
> > with it, but I honestly cant tell you to do that. yes a lot of people
> have
> > problems with UGF's in marine tanks, I do not. it has a lot to do with
> > proper cleaning/vacuuming of the substrate.
> >
> > what are your future plans as stocking the tank? what do you want to
keep
> > in the tank in the end?
> >
> >
> > hope you don't take any offence to my reply's, I am here to help but I
> tend
> > to be blunt and to the point.
> >
> > kc
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

> For now, I would like to have a few tangs and some
> clown fish....
>
> Janette
>
In a 70 gallon system, one Tang is the limit. some people will curse you
for all they are worth for keeping just one in it, stating that you need a
minimum 8' length tank for tangs. I believe it is dependant on the type
tang you keep. a yellow would be a great choice for your tank.

don't add it or any fish till your tank has settled in and fully cycled.
the tang is best kept till the last fish to add as well.

there are a lot of fish that I would recommend but they are to my likings
not yours. its best to pick a list of what you like and then post it and
we'll all help you narrow your choices down.

kc

[wolfhedd]

Yes, i would take the crused coral out and replace it with packged sugar
fine marine sand, and maybe some aragonite sand too, ending up with about 1
inch on the bottom which you will ONLY need to vacuum if you overfeed fish.
this kind of bottom will take care of itself, assuming you DONT have an UGF.
Get a good filter, go live sand, then you will be preppeds for a reef
someday which will make your fish real happy..
wolfhedd

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > We have crushed coral in the bottom of the tank. As for using the fish
to
> > cycle the tank, we put them in there 4 days after converting the
> tank...they
> > are doing just great. We were told to only use damsels since they are
so
> > hardy. No one mentioned using raw shrimp!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Janette
> >
> Janette, the lfs is out to sell you fish we in the NG are not so our
advice
> is most often more in the lines to help you be successful and theirs is
so
> you aren't and you spend more money before you get so frustrated you
quite.
>
> damsels are hardy fish, but there is no need to stress/kill them by having
> them in a tank while it cycles. a marine tank is as different as night
and
> day from a tropical (fresh water) setup. everything you know about fresh
> water tanks, you can toss it all out the door when dealing with your new
> marine tank.
>
> damsels are not only hardy but very aggressive, territorial fish that are
> going to cause problems later on when you want to add other more
attractive,
> friendly fish.
>
> your crushed coral substrate is considered by many (not myself) as a
nitrate
> factory, as it traps junk that isn't accessible to your fish or clean up
> crew. you don't mention if you have an UGF (under gravel filter) or not,
> you will find many who suggest you yank it out because of problems later
on
> with it, but I honestly cant tell you to do that. yes a lot of people
have
> problems with UGF's in marine tanks, I do not. it has a lot to do with
> proper cleaning/vacuuming of the substrate.
>
> what are your future plans as stocking the tank? what do you want to keep
> in the tank in the end?
>
>
> hope you don't take any offence to my reply's, I am here to help but I
tend
> to be blunt and to the point.
>
> kc
>
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

"wolfhedd" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Yes, i would take the crused coral out and replace it with packged sugar
> fine marine sand, and maybe some aragonite sand too, ending up with about
1
> inch on the bottom which you will ONLY need to vacuum if you overfeed
fish.
> this kind of bottom will take care of itself, assuming you DONT have an
UGF.
> Get a good filter, go live sand, then you will be preppeds for a reef
> someday which will make your fish real happy..
> wolfhedd
>
NEVER vacuume sand. you'll just end up with a bare bottomed tank. sand
sifters in the tank keep the sand clean, not the sand it's self.

kc

[wolfhedd]

YOUR forgetting, dragon slayer, this is a guy where he just wants fish,
therefore, may have a habit for overfeeding, given that assumption, thats
why i said ONLY if you severly overfeed fish will bottom need vacuuming, and
that would, OF COURSE, be if theres nothign else in the tank, as assumed by
him mail....
if you have a reef, of course you dont want to ever vacuum, if its cycling
good already, never!

wolfhedd

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Yes, i would take the crused coral out and replace it with packged sugar
> > fine marine sand, and maybe some aragonite sand too, ending up with
about
> 1
> > inch on the bottom which you will ONLY need to vacuum if you overfeed
> fish.
> > this kind of bottom will take care of itself, assuming you DONT have an
> UGF.
> > Get a good filter, go live sand, then you will be preppeds for a reef
> > someday which will make your fish real happy..
> > wolfhedd
> >
> NEVER vacuume sand. you'll just end up with a bare bottomed tank. sand
> sifters in the tank keep the sand clean, not the sand it's self.
>
> kc
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

"wolfhedd" > wrote in message
k.net...
> YOUR forgetting, dragon slayer, this is a guy where he just wants fish,
> therefore, may have a habit for overfeeding, given that assumption, thats
> why i said ONLY if you severly overfeed fish will bottom need vacuuming,
and
> that would, OF COURSE, be if theres nothign else in the tank, as assumed
by
> him mail....
> if you have a reef, of course you dont want to ever vacuum, if its cycling
> good already, never!
>
> wolfhedd


your way out in left field here. this guy (actually with that name id
guess gal) has CC substrate which can be vacuumed anytime you'd like, even
if its a reef. you said vacuuming sand, which cant/shouldn't be done
regardless of type setup.

I've noticed in a considerable amount of your posts you contradict yourself,
it may be just my reading of your wordage so if that be the case I do
apologize.

kc

[wolfhedd]

haha, sorry about that, sometimes im not very explanatory, therefore it may
seem that, but not the case. i try to learn from myself, not to be a
hippocrit.

Sand is not crushed coral.

Crushed coral collects junk in its pores, therefore needs vacuuming.

Sand doesnt collect junk, its structures are smooth edged, not porous, but
will need vacuuming if someone doesnt know JACK about reefing, and will NOT
ever need vacuuming if they know what they are doing. how is that? haha.

wolfhedd.



"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> > YOUR forgetting, dragon slayer, this is a guy where he just wants fish,
> > therefore, may have a habit for overfeeding, given that assumption,
thats
> > why i said ONLY if you severly overfeed fish will bottom need vacuuming,
> and
> > that would, OF COURSE, be if theres nothign else in the tank, as assumed
> by
> > him mail....
> > if you have a reef, of course you dont want to ever vacuum, if its
cycling
> > good already, never!
> >
> > wolfhedd
>
>
> your way out in left field here. this guy (actually with that name id
> guess gal) has CC substrate which can be vacuumed anytime you'd like, even
> if its a reef. you said vacuuming sand, which cant/shouldn't be done
> regardless of type setup.
>
> I've noticed in a considerable amount of your posts you contradict
yourself,
> it may be just my reading of your wordage so if that be the case I do
> apologize.
>
> kc
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

I'd prefer that sand never gets vacuumed, if it NEEDS it, they your screwing
up and you should correct that rather then vacuuming it.

ok?

kc

"wolfhedd" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> haha, sorry about that, sometimes im not very explanatory, therefore it
may
> seem that, but not the case. i try to learn from myself, not to be a
> hippocrit.
>
> Sand is not crushed coral.
>
> Crushed coral collects junk in its pores, therefore needs vacuuming.
>
> Sand doesnt collect junk, its structures are smooth edged, not porous, but
> will need vacuuming if someone doesnt know JACK about reefing, and will
NOT
> ever need vacuuming if they know what they are doing. how is that? haha.
>
> wolfhedd.
>
>
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> > k.net...
> > > YOUR forgetting, dragon slayer, this is a guy where he just wants
fish,
> > > therefore, may have a habit for overfeeding, given that assumption,
> thats
> > > why i said ONLY if you severly overfeed fish will bottom need
vacuuming,
> > and
> > > that would, OF COURSE, be if theres nothign else in the tank, as
assumed
> > by
> > > him mail....
> > > if you have a reef, of course you dont want to ever vacuum, if its
> cycling
> > > good already, never!
> > >
> > > wolfhedd
> >
> >
> > your way out in left field here. this guy (actually with that name id
> > guess gal) has CC substrate which can be vacuumed anytime you'd like,
even
> > if its a reef. you said vacuuming sand, which cant/shouldn't be done
> > regardless of type setup.
> >
> > I've noticed in a considerable amount of your posts you contradict
> yourself,
> > it may be just my reading of your wordage so if that be the case I do
> > apologize.
> >
> > kc
> >
> >
>
>

[wolfhedd]

yes, thats what i just said. exactly.


"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> I'd prefer that sand never gets vacuumed, if it NEEDS it, they your
screwing
> up and you should correct that rather then vacuuming it.
>
> ok?
>
> kc
>
> "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > haha, sorry about that, sometimes im not very explanatory, therefore it
> may
> > seem that, but not the case. i try to learn from myself, not to be a
> > hippocrit.
> >
> > Sand is not crushed coral.
> >
> > Crushed coral collects junk in its pores, therefore needs vacuuming.
> >
> > Sand doesnt collect junk, its structures are smooth edged, not porous,
but
> > will need vacuuming if someone doesnt know JACK about reefing, and will
> NOT
> > ever need vacuuming if they know what they are doing. how is that?
haha.
> >
> > wolfhedd.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> > > k.net...
> > > > YOUR forgetting, dragon slayer, this is a guy where he just wants
> fish,
> > > > therefore, may have a habit for overfeeding, given that assumption,
> > thats
> > > > why i said ONLY if you severly overfeed fish will bottom need
> vacuuming,
> > > and
> > > > that would, OF COURSE, be if theres nothign else in the tank, as
> assumed
> > > by
> > > > him mail....
> > > > if you have a reef, of course you dont want to ever vacuum, if its
> > cycling
> > > > good already, never!
> > > >
> > > > wolfhedd
> > >
> > >
> > > your way out in left field here. this guy (actually with that name
id
> > > guess gal) has CC substrate which can be vacuumed anytime you'd like,
> even
> > > if its a reef. you said vacuuming sand, which cant/shouldn't be done
> > > regardless of type setup.
> > >
> > > I've noticed in a considerable amount of your posts you contradict
> > yourself,
> > > it may be just my reading of your wordage so if that be the case I do
> > > apologize.
> > >
> > > kc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

"wolfhedd" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> yes, thats what i just said. exactly.
>


if that be the case, then yes i misunderstood everything you were saying.
and still do i guess.

:)
kc

[wolfhedd]

sorry, i will try to be a little more to the point next time, if thats even
physically possible, lol

wolfhedd


"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "wolfhedd" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > yes, thats what i just said. exactly.
> >
>
>
> if that be the case, then yes i misunderstood everything you were saying.
> and still do i guess.
>
> :)
> kc
>
>