HELP /w 1500 Gallon pond! Overfeeding

[David]

We went out of town for 3 days, and the person we hired to take care
of the animals dumped a whole 25 POUNDS of Koi wheatgerm food into my
poor little 1500 gallon pond. 25 POUNDS! MY.. GOD.. how stupid could
you get!
*I was stocking up for the winter.*
Well, now its a day after we've gotten home. There is a layer of food
on the floor of the pond that even dwarfs the ammount of leaves before
we had a skimmer. The water is so incredibly filthy, I cant see to the
bottom in the gravity pond's mechanical filter! Visibility is about 3
inches. The pond water is milky *and seriously.. its like I filled the
tank with milk* white. I cant see the colors on the fish from 3 inches
of water.. I have no quarantine tank, was planning on putting one in
this spring.

The food has clogged the skimmer.. is was completely full. Thank god I
bought that auto-shutoff. Food has nearly stopped the drain pump from
working.. its pulling a measly 450 gph *while it usually pulls about
2500 GPH* The pond aerorator doesnt blow bubbles.. seeing its full of
little particles of FOOD..
the rocks I use to give the fish a hiding place were COVERED.. not a
spot of rock to see.
Like I said, visibility was about 3 inches. I did a 75% water change
*drained half way, filled, half way again, filled.* and dumped 20
ounces of 'Ultimate' pond clear *fish store was out of ammonia lock*
I picked out as much dirt as I could.. *most of it being food*
I dont seem to have lost any fish yet, but I do believe I'm going to
lose them when the Nitrates and Nitrites turn into Ammonia.

I then sterilised the filter pads, heavy, medium, and light.. and
sterilised half the biological filter. *sterilising by boiling the
objects* The sand filter was clogged full of food, so I rinsed it out.



After about 2 hours, I noticed a change in the pond.. the water's
surface has a rainbow-like sheen, and foam occurs at the waterfall.


Please, somebody help!

[K30a]

Not a good time of year but I'd take the whole
pond down to the liner and really clean it out.
The koi club here has containers that members can borrow to store fish when the
pond is being worked on.
We take apart the filter in our 150 stock tank
and put the fish in there when we clean.

good luck!
k30a
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[Nedra]

I'd remove the fish right now! Even if you have to go borrowing
containers to put them in.
Then KILL the sitter!!!!!!!
No ... I mean do as Kathy (K30a) prescribes. Empty the
whole pond... you'll have to take off work to get this done!
Also enlist some help... family, neighbors... whoever.

Good Luck!

Nedra

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
"K30a" > wrote in message
...
>
> Not a good time of year but I'd take the whole
> pond down to the liner and really clean it out.
> The koi club here has containers that members can borrow to store fish
when the
> pond is being worked on.
> We take apart the filter in our 150 stock tank
> and put the fish in there when we clean.
>
> good luck!
> k30a
> http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>

[jammer]

I cant believe that some idiot would do that. What did you say to the
person?





On 17 Nov 2003 19:36:21 -0800, (David) wrote:

>We went out of town for 3 days, and the person we hired to take care
>of the animals dumped a whole 25 POUNDS of Koi wheatgerm food into my
>poor little 1500 gallon pond. 25 POUNDS! MY.. GOD.. how stupid could
>you get!
>*I was stocking up for the winter.*
>Well, now its a day after we've gotten home. There is a layer of food
>on the floor of the pond that even dwarfs the ammount of leaves before
>we had a skimmer. The water is so incredibly filthy, I cant see to the
>bottom in the gravity pond's mechanical filter! Visibility is about 3
>inches. The pond water is milky *and seriously.. its like I filled the
>tank with milk* white. I cant see the colors on the fish from 3 inches
>of water.. I have no quarantine tank, was planning on putting one in
>this spring.
>
>The food has clogged the skimmer.. is was completely full. Thank god I
>bought that auto-shutoff. Food has nearly stopped the drain pump from
>working.. its pulling a measly 450 gph *while it usually pulls about
>2500 GPH* The pond aerorator doesnt blow bubbles.. seeing its full of
>little particles of FOOD..
>the rocks I use to give the fish a hiding place were COVERED.. not a
>spot of rock to see.
>Like I said, visibility was about 3 inches. I did a 75% water change
>*drained half way, filled, half way again, filled.* and dumped 20
>ounces of 'Ultimate' pond clear *fish store was out of ammonia lock*
>I picked out as much dirt as I could.. *most of it being food*
>I dont seem to have lost any fish yet, but I do believe I'm going to
>lose them when the Nitrates and Nitrites turn into Ammonia.
>
>I then sterilised the filter pads, heavy, medium, and light.. and
>sterilised half the biological filter. *sterilising by boiling the
>objects* The sand filter was clogged full of food, so I rinsed it out.
>
>
>
>After about 2 hours, I noticed a change in the pond.. the water's
>surface has a rainbow-like sheen, and foam occurs at the waterfall.
>
>
>Please, somebody help!

[Theo van Daele]

What a mess.

My best advice would be to buy a "kids" swimming pool, fill it with water &
amquel, and slowly move the fish over there. That way you can really
drain/clean out the whole pond.


> On 17 Nov 2003 19:36:21 -0800, (David) wrote:
>
> >We went out of town for 3 days, and the person we hired to take care
> >of the animals dumped a whole 25 POUNDS of Koi wheatgerm food into my
> >poor little 1500 gallon pond. 25 POUNDS! MY.. GOD.. how stupid could
> >you get!
> >*I was stocking up for the winter.*
> >Well, now its a day after we've gotten home. There is a layer of food
> >on the floor of the pond that even dwarfs the ammount of leaves before
> >we had a skimmer. The water is so incredibly filthy, I cant see to the
> >bottom in the gravity pond's mechanical filter! Visibility is about 3
> >inches. The pond water is milky *and seriously.. its like I filled the
> >tank with milk* white. I cant see the colors on the fish from 3 inches
> >of water.. I have no quarantine tank, was planning on putting one in
> >this spring.
> >
> >The food has clogged the skimmer.. is was completely full. Thank god I
> >bought that auto-shutoff. Food has nearly stopped the drain pump from
> >working.. its pulling a measly 450 gph *while it usually pulls about
> >2500 GPH* The pond aerorator doesnt blow bubbles.. seeing its full of
> >little particles of FOOD..
> >the rocks I use to give the fish a hiding place were COVERED.. not a
> >spot of rock to see.
> >Like I said, visibility was about 3 inches. I did a 75% water change
> >*drained half way, filled, half way again, filled.* and dumped 20
> >ounces of 'Ultimate' pond clear *fish store was out of ammonia lock*
> >I picked out as much dirt as I could.. *most of it being food*
> >I dont seem to have lost any fish yet, but I do believe I'm going to
> >lose them when the Nitrates and Nitrites turn into Ammonia.
> >
> >I then sterilised the filter pads, heavy, medium, and light.. and
> >sterilised half the biological filter. *sterilising by boiling the
> >objects* The sand filter was clogged full of food, so I rinsed it out.
> >
> >
> >
> >After about 2 hours, I noticed a change in the pond.. the water's
> >surface has a rainbow-like sheen, and foam occurs at the waterfall.
> >
> >
> >Please, somebody help!
>

[Bonnie]

K30a wrote:
> Not a good time of year but I'd take the whole
> pond down to the liner and really clean it out.
> The koi club here has containers that members can borrow to store fish when the
> pond is being worked on.
> We take apart the filter in our 150 stock tank
> and put the fish in there when we clean.
>
> good luck!
> k30a
> http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>

Do what k30a says! Then tell us your area and the name of
the sitter, this person should never be allowed to watch any
pond again!

--
Bonnie
NJ

[tdreeves]

That's a great idea, the kids pools are on sale this time of year. You get a
bonus for the kids! Good luck and I will say a prayer for the fishes. Kc
"Theo van Daele" > wrote in message
...
> What a mess.
>
> My best advice would be to buy a "kids" swimming pool, fill it with water
&
> amquel, and slowly move the fish over there. That way you can really
> drain/clean out the whole pond.
>
>
> > On 17 Nov 2003 19:36:21 -0800, (David) wrote:
> >
> > >We went out of town for 3 days, and the person we hired to take care
> > >of the animals dumped a whole 25 POUNDS of Koi wheatgerm food into my
> > >poor little 1500 gallon pond. 25 POUNDS! MY.. GOD.. how stupid could
> > >you get!
> > >*I was stocking up for the winter.*
> > >Well, now its a day after we've gotten home. There is a layer of food
> > >on the floor of the pond that even dwarfs the ammount of leaves before
> > >we had a skimmer. The water is so incredibly filthy, I cant see to the
> > >bottom in the gravity pond's mechanical filter! Visibility is about 3
> > >inches. The pond water is milky *and seriously.. its like I filled the
> > >tank with milk* white. I cant see the colors on the fish from 3 inches
> > >of water.. I have no quarantine tank, was planning on putting one in
> > >this spring.
> > >
> > >The food has clogged the skimmer.. is was completely full. Thank god I
> > >bought that auto-shutoff. Food has nearly stopped the drain pump from
> > >working.. its pulling a measly 450 gph *while it usually pulls about
> > >2500 GPH* The pond aerorator doesnt blow bubbles.. seeing its full of
> > >little particles of FOOD..
> > >the rocks I use to give the fish a hiding place were COVERED.. not a
> > >spot of rock to see.
> > >Like I said, visibility was about 3 inches. I did a 75% water change
> > >*drained half way, filled, half way again, filled.* and dumped 20
> > >ounces of 'Ultimate' pond clear *fish store was out of ammonia lock*
> > >I picked out as much dirt as I could.. *most of it being food*
> > >I dont seem to have lost any fish yet, but I do believe I'm going to
> > >lose them when the Nitrates and Nitrites turn into Ammonia.
> > >
> > >I then sterilised the filter pads, heavy, medium, and light.. and
> > >sterilised half the biological filter. *sterilising by boiling the
> > >objects* The sand filter was clogged full of food, so I rinsed it out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >After about 2 hours, I noticed a change in the pond.. the water's
> > >surface has a rainbow-like sheen, and foam occurs at the waterfall.
> > >
> > >
> > >Please, somebody help!
> >
>
>

[THE Old Man]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:59:18 -0600, jammer > wrote:

>
>I cant believe that some idiot would do that. What did you say to the
>person?
>
>
Leaving out the bad words? I bet he said nothing.

Bad deal. Hang in there and do rest often as the stress can really
get you down.

dd

[David]

I live near Oakland, California..

The baby pool sounds like it wouldnt be such a bad idea.

After the 75% water change today, I see no difference, other than I
cant see anything at all now *milk*

Catching the fish to put them into a separate pond will be quite a
problem.. they're all quite camoflauged in the milk. Even then, I've
searched all through the neighborhood and cant seem to turn up
anything but a wheelbarrel and a couple of drink boxes. Nothing that
can hold 11 12'' fish.
No bellies up yet thank god.

I took water test readings today before I put the pond through its
winter torment.. results:
Ammonia is in the 'stress' zone
Nitrates are in the 'Toxic' zone
and Nitrites are in the 'Toxic' zone
PH is 6.5
everything else is normal



I have a Bitron 18 that isnt hooked up to the pond yet... *since I
ordered the new filtration system from two manufacturers, one of which
is INCREDIBLY slow*
and a spare Oase Nautilus 30 pump, plus a Beckett 1000 gph pump.

Do you think the Bitron 18, used as a steriliser, could cleanse the
pond of this horrid milky white bacteria layer?

*update, the layer on top is now a milky greenish white, with string
algae starting up all over the place. wow, after only 2 days.

I've done another 75% water change, and I still see no difference in
the color or purity of the water.

Help!

[David]

Wow. My lilly pads went boom.
From green as an Evergreen to looking as though its been sitting in
the attic for a couple years..



Hooked up the Bitron 18. I ordered a Biotec 10 a while back, and I
hope it will solve my problems.

[Theo van Daele]

The water quality sounds really alarming David, you really need an emergency
pond, like the kiddie pool or K30's suggestion of asking for a container at
your local Koi org.

These are strong fish, but they will start to give up.

When you start draining your pond, catching the fish will be much easier, so
drain half, catch a few fish, drain more, until you get the last one.

"David" > schreef in bericht
om...
> I live near Oakland, California..
>
> The baby pool sounds like it wouldnt be such a bad idea.
>
> After the 75% water change today, I see no difference, other than I
> cant see anything at all now *milk*
>
> Catching the fish to put them into a separate pond will be quite a
> problem.. they're all quite camoflauged in the milk. Even then, I've
> searched all through the neighborhood and cant seem to turn up
> anything but a wheelbarrel and a couple of drink boxes. Nothing that
> can hold 11 12'' fish.
> No bellies up yet thank god.
>
> I took water test readings today before I put the pond through its
> winter torment.. results:
> Ammonia is in the 'stress' zone
> Nitrates are in the 'Toxic' zone
> and Nitrites are in the 'Toxic' zone
> PH is 6.5
> everything else is normal
>
>
>
> I have a Bitron 18 that isnt hooked up to the pond yet... *since I
> ordered the new filtration system from two manufacturers, one of which
> is INCREDIBLY slow*
> and a spare Oase Nautilus 30 pump, plus a Beckett 1000 gph pump.
>
> Do you think the Bitron 18, used as a steriliser, could cleanse the
> pond of this horrid milky white bacteria layer?
>
> *update, the layer on top is now a milky greenish white, with string
> algae starting up all over the place. wow, after only 2 days.
>
> I've done another 75% water change, and I still see no difference in
> the color or purity of the water.
>
> Help!

[joe]

I recently had to catch some fish in my pond. Go to your local Home Depot
and in the garden section you will find bird netting. Get the finest you can
find then lay it over the bottom of the pond and up each side. Pound stakes
through or place rocks on one end of the net and pull up on the other. You
should be able to catch several this way.

Good luck
Joe


David wrote:

> Catching the fish to put them into a separate pond will be quite a
> problem.. they're all quite camoflauged in the milk.



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[David]

THE Old Man > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:59:18 -0600, jammer > wrote:
>
> >
> >I cant believe that some idiot would do that. What did you say to the
> >person?
> >
> >
> Leaving out the bad words? I bet he said nothing.
>
> Bad deal. Hang in there and do rest often as the stress can really
> get you down.
>
> dd

I'm trying not to get too angry untill I know the extent of the
dammage.. She knows nothing of the cost of these fish. Maybe if I
brought her to the San Jose koi farm nearby.. all they stock is
thousand dollar Koi.


Draining the pond again is getting to be a very hard task. The ground
around the pond has turned into mud, and the street is about 150 feet
away.

I've tried putting my fish into some wheelbarrows the neighbors have
rented me, but they dont seem to adapt well to the change. I havent
gotten any of them to stay inside the wheelbarrow for more than an
hour.. even with a net over the top. *never knew koi were that strong*

Possibly a Wet/Dry vac would work to completely drain the pond quickly
and efficiently would work.. I know a neighbor that has one. *crosses
fingers*

Still no losses..
Nitrates *Stress* @ ~90 MG/L
Nitrites *Toxic* @ ~4 MG/L
Ammonia: *Toxic* @ ~.75 MG/L
Water is a filthy murky greenish white.. as in incredibly old milk.


Any solutions that dont require me to move the fish? That simply isnt
an option. cant be away from work

[David]

OOK.

The bitron was part of a set of other Oase filtration products, namely
a Biotec 10. I installed the Biotec 10 in about 3 hours, along with
the Nautilus 30 it came with.

Its an hour later, and I see no difference in clarity, but it sure as
hell takes every bit of crap out of the water it can find.. Not the
Biotec 1000 or the Pf3 come even close to it.


The nitrates, Nitrites and Ammonia seem to be going down, or I cant
see the colors well.

BUT: problem, why is it that 2 of my fish look like they have broken
backs? can this be cured, or do I have to put them out of their
misery?

*they can only curve their tails one way.*

[Theo van Daele]

>>BUT: problem, why is it that 2 of my fish look like they have broken
backs?

Ammonia or nitite poisoining.

Can only repeat the suggestion: get them out of there (all fish) or watch
them die a slow death.

Not even 500 Biotec10's can help you with this I'm afraid.

Theo

[Jeffrey Ashby]

Hello,

Sorry to hear about your situation and for replying so late, I'm new to
the newsgroup.

I would suggest that you look up on the net a PVC counter current foam
fractionator. Something about 6' tall can be made for around $25 to
$35. The fractionator will help remove the fine solids suspended in the
water column (the milky look) it will strip CO2 to help readjust pH and
other water components and you can use your pump from the fountain to
power it until things get back to normal.

I had a similar problem as I was running two 600 gallon tanks and had an
automatic feeder lock open and dump fish feed all night long. Same
water conditions.

Also you may want to consider an overnite shipment of preactivated
bacteria from Aquatic Eco or other similar aquaculture retailer, add an
entire gallon all at once, you cannot over add the bacteria in this
case. That will help reduce the ammonia and nitrites (don't worry about
nitrates until they get over 200 ppm the other is much more important).

Your Koi will be sufering from ammonia poisoning and brown blood
disease, so you will also need LOTS of aeration as soon as things are
closer to equilibrium.

Good luck to you and the fish

Jeffrey Ashby
Aquaculture Consultant

[David]

Argh. If you say so... Tomorrow I will purchase a small 125 gallon
tank and place the fish into it.. being Saturday with no work.

I have 3 fish with broken backs now. what can I do to help?
injections?

Finally: The pond water seems to be quite foamy now. Is this the
aerobic bacteria turning the nitrates *etc etc* to nitrogen exiting
the pond into the air? Should I keep the foam on there or sweep it
out?

Other than that, the only difference I see is that I dont have to
clean the filter everyday.


> >>BUT: problem, why is it that 2 of my fish look like they have broken
> backs?
>
> Ammonia or nitite poisoining.
>
> Can only repeat the suggestion: get them out of there (all fish) or watch
> them die a slow death.
>
> Not even 500 Biotec10's can help you with this I'm afraid.
>
> Theo

[Philip Lewis]

(David) writes:
>I'm trying not to get too angry untill I know the extent of the
>dammage.. She knows nothing of the cost of these fish. Maybe if I

ok... perhaps it's just me... perhaps it's because i've never had a
complete pond with koi. (55 gallon submerged pond with feeder golds,
but not koi) Perhaps i'm a cruel *******... but if i were leaving for
3 days, i would:
1: let the koi fend for themselves... on mosquito and other natural
critters.
or
2: tell the sitter exactly what to do.... and if they were only
feeding, have portions in baggies for them.

are koi so fussy that they can't fend for themselves for a few days?
(in which case, i now know they are not for me...)


--
be safe.
flip
Verso l'esterno! Verso l'esterno! Deamons di ignoranza.
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

[Theo van Daele]

> are koi so fussy that they can't fend for themselves for a few days?
> (in which case, i now know they are not for me...)

Of course they aren't, they can go for weeks without food, just like the
carp variety you have (goldfish) :-)

But I guess David wanted the best for his fish (regular feeding).

Still, the damage was done, and now it's a question of trying to get as many
fish as possible to survive.

Theo

[Jim]

>are koi so fussy that they can't fend for themselves for a few days?

I've gone out of town for 1-3 week periods and haven't fed my fish. I
do have someone (fellow ponder) check to see if everything is ok
(pumps running, water level, etc.), but request the fish not be fed.

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

[David]

Now, I was told you fed them as many times a day you could as long as
the ammount didnt go beyond 5% of their combined body weights.
So, I fed them 3X a day *once morning, when I get home, and once right
before bed* with a couple pellets each.

If you dont feed them atleast once a day, they will become as ravenous
and angry at you as reasonably possible. I've had fish that died
because I didnt feed them over a weekend..
I really hate seeing five hundred dollar animals kick the bucket
because I didnt go the extra step of getting someone to feed them for
me.


Hell, I get my kitten fed during the weekend, he cant fend for
himself, why should the fish? *which are noticebly larger and more
expensive*

[[email protected]]

unless it was a fry, that fish didnt die from not feeding them. they CAN go for
weeks without food. Ingrid

(David) wrote:
. I've had fish that died
>because I didnt feed them over a weekend..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Elizabeth Naime]

For an emergency and/or quarantine tank, I would recommend that you get
a stock tank. Check your yellow pages under "feed" and "farm supply",
many people are really quite close to a farm supply store without
knowing it. Tractor Supply Company (http://www.tractorsupplyco.com) is a
chain that has locations everywhere. 100 gallon oval tanks are pretty
cheap, 150 gallon oval tanks are better and not that expensive. If you
have room and want a q-tank ready, you can get larger round tanks -- I
have goldfish in a 600-gallon round (actual capacity closer to 500 to
550, since we don't fill to the brim for fish). GET THE PLASTIC ONE, not
the galvanized steel. New galvanized steel will kill fish.

However your current situation turns out, I'd recommend that you get a
plastic stock tank so that you will always have a place to put fish in
an emergency.

While you're at the farm supply store, get some rigid hardware cloth or
a section of rigid wire fence panel (pig panels are great, depending on
the size of your emergency tank). Get a piece large enough to set on top
of your stock tank. It's sturdy, it's rigid, and if you choose something
heavy and heavy-duty, you can lay bricks or rocks on top to hold it
down. If my fish are any indication, koi WILL jump when you change their
environment, even if it's to much much better conditions. Pig panels are
designed to hold back 600-lb pigs; they're probably one of the few
covers that a 12-inch koi can NOT shift. ;-)

What's done is done and can't be undone. Take it as a learning
experience to leave very careful instructions and pre-measured food the
next time you have a pond-sitter. And it can't be undone now, but... why
did you sterilize the filter pads? You really need a strong and healthy
biofilter right now to pick up all that amonia and nitrites! You will
have to go back to square one, breaking in the pond, until your
biofilter comes back. I don't know if there are any affordable and
available biofilter jump-starts that actually work, but it sure wouldn't
hurt to try one.

Would just a little salt help, given the nitrites? You don't need much,
in smaller systems I use a teaspoon of pure salt (pickling salt or
aquarium salt) per gallon of water and I'm told that is more than plenty
for protection from nitrites. You don't need to use the higher
concentrations recommended for parasite control.

Worry about getting your water back to healthy condition first. Then
you'll just have to wait and see who comes through. Once you have decent
water again, your twisty fish may have a chance... give them time and
good water and see what happens.

Wishing you the best of luck!


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[David]

Elizabeth Naime

Thankyou for your feedback, but I seem to be over the nitrogen wave.
Now all I want to do is fix the broken backs all my fish seem to
have..


Only 1 belly up, and he was sick to begin with . :'(

How do I mend their broken backs? can anyone help me on this?

[[email protected]]

you cant. it is permanent. they can live fine with crooked backs. INgrid

(David) wrote:
>How do I mend their broken backs? can anyone help me on this?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.