Re: Cold water

[Sam Hopkins]

Goldfish are cold water fish and are perfectly fine at 45 degrees. I
wouldn't waste your electricity trying to raise the pond temp. Now if your
pond was in danger of freezing completely then I would heat it.

Sam

"animaux" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought a heater for the pond. The pond is a combined 165 gallons
with
> four 12" comets. The water dropped to 45oF last night, not much warmer
today.
> We are pretty cold for Texas.
>
> Anyway, the fish are huddling at the bottom, moving very little, but look
fine.
>
> Here is the question:
>
> Would the pond stay a bit warmer if we do two things; remove the water
globe
> feature, and stop the waterfall feature from the other pond. By the other
pond,
> I mean the 30 gallon part where the water drips into the 135 gallon tank.
It
> was my thought that putting the water into the air via the water globe
(bell or
> whatever they call it) the warmth is being totally lost in the cold air.
>
> I just want what's best for the fish.
>
> V

[RichToyBox]

Turning off the water bell and the water fall from the small pond will allow
for all evaporative cooling to be limited to the rather small surface area
of the pond, rather than the large surface area of these. The heater can be
used to keep a hole in the ice, as can an air stone, or just the pump
without the water bell, just stirring the surface. Unless you cover the
pond with some form of plastic tent, greenhouse, or similar, the heat loss
from evaporation will be more than a heater can overcome.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"animaux" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought a heater for the pond. The pond is a combined 165 gallons
with
> four 12" comets. The water dropped to 45oF last night, not much warmer
today.
> We are pretty cold for Texas.
>
> Anyway, the fish are huddling at the bottom, moving very little, but look
fine.
>
> Here is the question:
>
> Would the pond stay a bit warmer if we do two things; remove the water
globe
> feature, and stop the waterfall feature from the other pond. By the other
pond,
> I mean the 30 gallon part where the water drips into the 135 gallon tank.
It
> was my thought that putting the water into the air via the water globe
(bell or
> whatever they call it) the warmth is being totally lost in the cold air.
>
> I just want what's best for the fish.
>
> V

[Paul in Redland]

Your fish will be just fine as long as the water remains liquid, that is,
not frozen solid. They will just hunker down and wait till things warm up.
Don't feed them ANYTHING when the water temp is below 50 degrees though. If
the pond would freeze over, it would be a good idea to keep a hole open in
the ice. A small air pump and air stone meant for aquarium use would do it.

Paul

"animaux" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought a heater for the pond. The pond is a combined 165 gallons
with
> four 12" comets. The water dropped to 45oF last night, not much warmer
today.
> We are pretty cold for Texas.
>
> Anyway, the fish are huddling at the bottom, moving very little, but look
fine.
>
> Here is the question:
>
> Would the pond stay a bit warmer if we do two things; remove the water
globe
> feature, and stop the waterfall feature from the other pond. By the other
pond,
> I mean the 30 gallon part where the water drips into the 135 gallon tank.
It
> was my thought that putting the water into the air via the water globe
(bell or
> whatever they call it) the warmth is being totally lost in the cold air.
>
> I just want what's best for the fish.
>
> V

[Anne Lurie]

V,

I have two goldfish in my teeny water garden here in Raleigh, NC (zone
) -- unless the water surface has totally frozen over, I leave the Little
Giant pump running with a "water bell" (aka "dog water fountain!"). On most
days during the winter, there is at least some open water around the
fountain -- so I figure, air gets into the water & noxious gases are
released from the pond.

As for feeding the fish, although I check the temperature of the water and
don't feed the goldfish if the water temp is below 55 (don't scream, folks,
but I use the instant-read digital thermometer from my kitchen drawer to
check temps in both the pond & my vegetable garden; after all, my dogs drink
the water from the pond, and we eat the veggies that grow in the garden) --
I *also* look at the goldfish themselves.

If the fish are just hanging out motionless at the bottom of the pond, I
don't feed them. If I see any motion from them, I make a mental note to
check them later (it's common to have both heat & A/C working on the same
day here, for weeks at a time!). If the fish are "flitting" around faster
than I can follow them, I give them a teeny pinch of food. (Probably more
for my benefit than for theirs, admittedly.)

Note: I'm talking here about *goldfish* not koi -- as I believe the
original poster was, also.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC
__________________

"animaux" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought a heater for the pond. The pond is a combined 165 gallons
with
> four 12" comets. The water dropped to 45oF last night, not much warmer
today.
> We are pretty cold for Texas.
>
> Anyway, the fish are huddling at the bottom, moving very little, but look
fine.
>
> Here is the question:
>
> Would the pond stay a bit warmer if we do two things; remove the water
globe
> feature, and stop the waterfall feature from the other pond. By the other
pond,
> I mean the 30 gallon part where the water drips into the 135 gallon tank.
It
> was my thought that putting the water into the air via the water globe
(bell or
> whatever they call it) the warmth is being totally lost in the cold air.
>
> I just want what's best for the fish.
>
> V

[Paul in Redland]

Oh, you got the expensive ones! My goldfish are the 10 for $1.00 feeder
fish. They're 4 years old now. Started with 20 ( yeah, a whole $2.00 worth )
must have 50 or so now, 2'', the young-uns, to 10", the original ones. Like
I said in previous post, I don't feed them ANYTHING at all when the water
temp is below 50o F. It's not so much a swelling of the food thing as it is
a digestion thing. Rumor is, that below 50, the bacteria in their stomach
goes dormant and as a result food will rot in the stomach (bad thing)
leading to belly up syndrome. My fish, the 50 goldfish and 8 koi, go from
mid October to around April without ANY food. I suppose they eat the
occasional bug and maybe some algae, but nothing 'manmade'. They do just
fine.

Paul

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:33:44 GMT, animaux > wrote:

>The problem is, I live in Texas. Some day it will be 45, next day, it will be
>80. Many of the average days are 65 by day, 40 by night. I will take your
>advice and tell my husband to stop feeding them. There are plants, duck weed,
>algae, etc. I would simply hate to do anything to harm them in any way.

>V

I think what Paul is trying to say is, you may very well harm them with
kindness. Living where you do you're probably fine, but someone else may
have 45-50F water and feed (hey, V said she feeds when her fish are
moving), not checking to find out there is a serious cold front coming in
that night.

One may not have a bigger brain than their goldfish, but anyone reading
this does have access to weather.com via the internet. ;o) ~ jan

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Paul in Redland]

Remember, we're talking WATER temp here. Water temp tends to be the average
of the high and low temps for the past few days, depending on the size of
the pond, among other things. When in doubt, don't feed them. It will always
be better to under feed them than over feed. Ask any ponder when the last
time was that they had a fish starve to death.

Paul

"animaux" > wrote in message
...
> The problem is, I live in Texas. Some day it will be 45, next day, it
will be
> 80. Many of the average days are 65 by day, 40 by night. I will take
your
> advice and tell my husband to stop feeding them. There are plants, duck
weed,
> algae, etc. I would simply hate to do anything to harm them in any way.
>
> V

[Hal]

I live in Middle Georgia Zone 8 and feed my fish most of the year. I
stop feeding when the fish (goldfish and koi) line up on the bottom
and stop coming to the top to eat. I do switch from Mazuri Platinum
to wheat germ feed when the water temperature gets around 50F. I've
talked to other ponders here that feed the same type of feed although
less throughout the winter. Winter is relative. Down here it can
mean two days of ice on the pond up yonder it can mean months of ice
on the pond.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:33:44 GMT, animaux >
wrote:

>The problem is, I live in Texas. Some day it will be 45, next day, it will be
>80. Many of the average days are 65 by day, 40 by night. I will take your
>advice and tell my husband to stop feeding them. There are plants, duck weed,
>algae, etc. I would simply hate to do anything to harm them in any way.

[Anne Lurie]

A bit of clarification here, if I may:

Although I thought from V's second post that she was talking about goldfish,
her first post mentions comets, and I have no idea what kind of fish they
are.

Also, I was the one who mentioned feeding my fish when I saw them moving,
not V.

These folks are definitely right -- overfeeding fish is much worse than
underfeeding them!

BTW, Jan is absolutely right about checking the weather forecast; it's one
of those things that I'm so used to doing that I don't even realize I'm
doing it -- or to point it out to others.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:33:44 GMT, animaux > wrote:
>
> >The problem is, I live in Texas. Some day it will be 45, next day, it
will be
> >80. Many of the average days are 65 by day, 40 by night. I will take
your
> >advice and tell my husband to stop feeding them. There are plants, duck
weed,
> >algae, etc. I would simply hate to do anything to harm them in any way.
>
> >V
>
> I think what Paul is trying to say is, you may very well harm them with
> kindness. Living where you do you're probably fine, but someone else may
> have 45-50F water and feed (hey, V said she feeds when her fish are
> moving), not checking to find out there is a serious cold front coming in
> that night.
>
> One may not have a bigger brain than their goldfish, but anyone reading
> this does have access to weather.com via the internet. ;o) ~ jan
>
> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[BenignVanilla]

<snip>
> BTW, Jan is absolutely right about checking the weather forecast; it's one
> of those things that I'm so used to doing that I don't even realize I'm
> doing it -- or to point it out to others.
<snip>

Are you saying you check the weather to determine if you can feed your fish
or not? I can't imagine day to day swings are that important are they? I
always thought it was a consistent ambient temperature (IE seasonal) that
was the issue.


--
BV.
WebPorgmaster
www.IHeartMyPond.com
Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/dcg8118-20.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

><snip>
>> BTW, Jan is absolutely right about checking the weather forecast; it's one
>> of those things that I'm so used to doing that I don't even realize I'm
>> doing it -- or to point it out to others. Anne
><snip>
>
>Are you saying you check the weather to determine if you can feed your fish
>or not?

If I may, she saying she checks the weather..... Like myself, Anne sounds
like she always has the weather open on her computer and updates it
regularly. Or do other people do that? The 3 things I have open all the
time, IE w/the weather, Eudora/E-mail, & Agent w/Rec.ponds. ;o)

> I can't imagine day to day swings are that important are they? I
>always thought it was a consistent ambient temperature (IE seasonal) that
>was the issue. BV

All depends on your pond size. A large pond isn't going to be as affected
as a little pre-form, or even more so, an above ground pond with no
insulation around it. It's just a given that what ponder A can get away
with doesn't aways mean ponders BCDE&F can do so.

If one has a pond of 1,000 in full sun it may warm up to feeding temps, but
your filter isn't on line, bacteria doesn't wake up in a day or two. So
unless the weather report says it's going to stay warm, it's best not to
feed. Think of your filter, not the fish, because when you think of what
the filter is doing (or not doing) you are thinking in the best interest of
your fish.

Btw, Anne, Comets are longfinned single tailed goldfish. :o) ~ jan


See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Anne Lurie]

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
> > BTW, Jan is absolutely right about checking the weather forecast; it's
one
> > of those things that I'm so used to doing that I don't even realize I'm
> > doing it -- or to point it out to others.
>
> Are you saying you check the weather to determine if you can feed your
fish
> or not? I can't imagine day to day swings are that important are they? I
> always thought it was a consistent ambient temperature (IE seasonal) that
> was the issue.

> BV.
> WebPorgmaster
> www.IHeartMyPond.com
> Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/dcg8118-20.


Sorry, BV, what I meant was that ever since we discovered RoadRunner, we're
*always* online! And I'm used to the My Yahoo page with a weather section
that I customized (my house, son's house, where we're going next week, next
month, etc.) right next to the current stock prices. I'm not quite sure
what "consistent ambient temperature" is, but I don't think we have it in my
part of North Carolina! (I wasn't kidding when I said that it's a common
occurrence this time of year to use both furnace and A/C on any given day.)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

[BenignVanilla]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> All depends on your pond size. A large pond isn't going to be as affected
> as a little pre-form, or even more so, an above ground pond with no
> insulation around it. It's just a given that what ponder A can get away
> with doesn't aways mean ponders BCDE&F can do so.
>
> If one has a pond of 1,000 in full sun it may warm up to feeding temps,
but
> your filter isn't on line, bacteria doesn't wake up in a day or two. So
> unless the weather report says it's going to stay warm, it's best not to
> feed. Think of your filter, not the fish, because when you think of what
> the filter is doing (or not doing) you are thinking in the best interest
of
> your fish.
<snip>

I guess what I am not understanding is the purpose of daily weather checks.
It seems to me that no matter what the size of the pond, the daily snaps in
weather don't affect feeding. I stopped feeding a few weeks ago when temps
got below 50 consistently. If we have 60 or 70 degree day, I am not going to
go feed the fish.

Jan what am I misunderstanding here?


--
BV posting from the train.
WebPorgmaster
www.IHeartMyPond.com
Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/dcg8118-20.

[RichToyBox]

There is a temperature at which the fish go dormant, and are not interested
in food, and one or two degrees warmer, they really start looking for food.
If you feed while they are looking for food, the day that a major cold front
comes through, the temperature of the pond can drop to that point that the
fish are not able to process the food faster than the fish have gotten it
all processed. This means that it stays in the gut and rots. If the
temperatures looking forward are for mild temperatures that will not cause
the pond to cool, then feeding may be permitted, though I don't recommend
it, while if the temperatures are predicted to drop significantly, you
should definitely refrain from feeding.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip>
> > All depends on your pond size. A large pond isn't going to be as
affected
> > as a little pre-form, or even more so, an above ground pond with no
> > insulation around it. It's just a given that what ponder A can get away
> > with doesn't aways mean ponders BCDE&F can do so.
> >
> > If one has a pond of 1,000 in full sun it may warm up to feeding temps,
> but
> > your filter isn't on line, bacteria doesn't wake up in a day or two. So
> > unless the weather report says it's going to stay warm, it's best not to
> > feed. Think of your filter, not the fish, because when you think of what
> > the filter is doing (or not doing) you are thinking in the best interest
> of
> > your fish.
> <snip>
>
> I guess what I am not understanding is the purpose of daily weather
checks.
> It seems to me that no matter what the size of the pond, the daily snaps
in
> weather don't affect feeding. I stopped feeding a few weeks ago when temps
> got below 50 consistently. If we have 60 or 70 degree day, I am not going
to
> go feed the fish.
>
> Jan what am I misunderstanding here?
>
>
> --
> BV posting from the train.
> WebPorgmaster
> www.IHeartMyPond.com
> Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/dcg8118-20.
>
>

[BenignVanilla]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:%Lnzb.411410$Fm2.417794@attbi_s04...
> There is a temperature at which the fish go dormant, and are not
interested
> in food, and one or two degrees warmer, they really start looking for
food.
> If you feed while they are looking for food, the day that a major cold
front
> comes through, the temperature of the pond can drop to that point that the
> fish are not able to process the food faster than the fish have gotten it
> all processed. This means that it stays in the gut and rots. If the
> temperatures looking forward are for mild temperatures that will not cause
> the pond to cool, then feeding may be permitted, though I don't recommend
> it, while if the temperatures are predicted to drop significantly, you
> should definitely refrain from feeding.
<snip>

I guess that is what I am confused by this thread. When my temps got down to
an average low, I stopped feeding. I don't see how checking the temp today
is a good idea. I check the temp for what it is probably going to be for
awhile. I look at it as a seasonal issue, not a daily issue.


--
BV (Posting from the Train)
WebPorgmaster
www.IHeartMyPond.com
Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/dcg8118-20.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I guess what I am not understanding is the purpose of daily weather checks.
>It seems to me that no matter what the size of the pond, the daily snaps in
>weather don't affect feeding. I stopped feeding a few weeks ago when temps
>got below 50 consistently. If we have 60 or 70 degree day, I am not going to
>go feed the fish.
>
>Jan what am I misunderstanding here? BV

BV, you're not misunderstanding anything really. We would perfer most
people do as you do, but to those who just feel sorry for their wet pets,
and just can't help themselves, refer to the prior advice. ;o) ~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website