BETTER IDEA - Re: Reduce Sump Refill Maintenance, cheap way

[Dave Cobb]

Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
"automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
water-cooler.

A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.

Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
the hose at the desired water level.

Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
more slowly.

Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
and have my sump get low!

Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!

[Charlie Spitzer]

"Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
om...
> Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
> "automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
> water-cooler.
>
> A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
> the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
> the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
> reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
> the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.
>
> Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
> thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
> bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
> opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
> the hose at the desired water level.
>
> Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
> the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
> more slowly.
>
> Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
> a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
> and have my sump get low!
>
> Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
> cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
> that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
> filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!

i did this. i used a plastic wastebasket under the 5gal bottle, and used a
water cooler tap spigot with a hose to my sump.

the disadvantage is that if the return pump shuts off, the sump fills up
with reverse siphon through the pump, the wastebasket can fill and overflow.
you need a 1 way valve on the water line, or an air break on the return pump
line.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

[Dave Cobb]

As long as the reservoir container is SEALED except for the transfer hose a
1-way valve is not necessary... as long as the drain hose (into the sump) is
the only way for water to escape (and air to enter) the reservoir will stop
draining into the sump once the sump has reached the desired waterline.


"Charlie Spitzer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
> > "automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
> > water-cooler.
> >
> > A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
> > the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
> > the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
> > reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
> > the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.
> >
> > Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
> > thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
> > bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
> > opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
> > the hose at the desired water level.
> >
> > Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
> > the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
> > more slowly.
> >
> > Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
> > a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
> > and have my sump get low!
> >
> > Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
> > cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
> > that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
> > filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!
>
> i did this. i used a plastic wastebasket under the 5gal bottle, and used a
> water cooler tap spigot with a hose to my sump.
>
> the disadvantage is that if the return pump shuts off, the sump fills up
> with reverse siphon through the pump, the wastebasket can fill and
overflow.
> you need a 1 way valve on the water line, or an air break on the return
pump
> line.
>
> regards,
> charlie
> cave creek, az
>
>

[Trygve Lillefosse]

On 29 Oct 2003 13:30:53 -0800, (Dave Cobb) wrote:
>Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
>thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
>bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir

>Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
>cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
>that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
>filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!

It makes perfect sence. Exept for the wide hose.

I recon that you ment a small, airline type tube from the airtight
container to the reservoir.

A wide hose will "gulp" more water into the sump at a time, and
therefor be less accurate.
The hose should neither be to narrow, as air can then stop in the
middle of the hose, and work as a cork instead of entering the
container where it will release some of the sub-pressure that has
formed. Think this is due to surface tension in the water.

BTW: Have been thinking that it should be possible to dose nutrients
by using a drip-counter that is normaly used to medicate/give
nutrients to hospital-patients.


SEE YA !!!

Malawi, The Fisher King aka Trygve Lillefosse
Remove nospam

[Dave Cobb]

I think airline would be too narrow as a bubble going up the airline might
not have room to pass water coming down the tube sufficiently. Perhaps 3/8"
or 1/2" tubing would be a good size.

> A wide hose will "gulp" more water into the sump at a time, and
> therefor be less accurate.
> The hose should neither be to narrow, as air can then stop in the
> middle of the hose, and work as a cork instead of entering the
> container where it will release some of the sub-pressure that has
> formed. Think this is due to surface tension in the water.
>

[Dave Cobb]

Yes, in fact Kent Marine sells a product called "AquaDose" that does just
that... see this link:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3677&D=aquadose&Ntt=aquadose&Ntk=All&Dx=mode+matchallany&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Dave

> BTW: Have been thinking that it should be possible to dose nutrients
> by using a drip-counter that is normaly used to medicate/give
> nutrients to hospital-patients.
>
>
> SEE YA !!!
>
> Malawi, The Fisher King aka Trygve Lillefosse
> Remove nospam

[Charlie Spitzer]

"Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
news:TY0ob.123165$gv5.108724@fed1read05...
> As long as the reservoir container is SEALED except for the transfer hose
a
> 1-way valve is not necessary... as long as the drain hose (into the sump)
is
> the only way for water to escape (and air to enter) the reservoir will
stop
> draining into the sump once the sump has reached the desired waterline.

it would be hard to airtight seal the reservoir container, considering it
has a 5 gallon bottle upended in it. also considering that it would cause a
vacuum to be established, and the bottle would collapse.

>
> "Charlie Spitzer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
> > > "automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
> > > water-cooler.
> > >
> > > A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
> > > the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
> > > the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
> > > reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
> > > the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.
> > >
> > > Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
> > > thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
> > > bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
> > > opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
> > > the hose at the desired water level.
> > >
> > > Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
> > > the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
> > > more slowly.
> > >
> > > Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
> > > a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
> > > and have my sump get low!
> > >
> > > Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
> > > cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
> > > that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
> > > filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!
> >
> > i did this. i used a plastic wastebasket under the 5gal bottle, and used
a
> > water cooler tap spigot with a hose to my sump.
> >
> > the disadvantage is that if the return pump shuts off, the sump fills up
> > with reverse siphon through the pump, the wastebasket can fill and
> overflow.
> > you need a 1 way valve on the water line, or an air break on the return
> pump
> > line.
> >
> > regards,
> > charlie
> > cave creek, az
> >
> >
>
>

[Mark Breithaupt]

Installing a float valve into the side of your sump with the feed line
connected to your upended 5 gallon bottle would work. As the water goes
down, the float opens the valve, and vice versa. You can have an air hole
(or refill hole) in the top of your bottle, because the valve controls the
water flow, and will not allow any backfeeding. I have this same type of
float valve on my furnace humidifier, and it keeps the water within a
fraction of an inch from over flowing my humidifier reservoir.
When my sump and tank are delivered and we set-up the tank, I'm going to
install the same type of float valve in my sump to replenish evaporation.


"Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
news:iT8ob.124657$gv5.51942@fed1read05...
> Yes, in fact Kent Marine sells a product called "AquaDose" that does just
> that... see this link:
>
>
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3677&D=aquadose&Ntt=aquadose&Ntk=All&Dx=mode+matchallany&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1
>
> Dave
>
> > BTW: Have been thinking that it should be possible to dose nutrients
> > by using a drip-counter that is normaly used to medicate/give
> > nutrients to hospital-patients.
> >
> >
> > SEE YA !!!
> >
> > Malawi, The Fisher King aka Trygve Lillefosse
> > Remove nospam
>
>

[Mark Breithaupt]

Installing a float valve into the side of your sump near the waterline with
the feed line
connected to your upended 5 gallon bottle would work. As the water in the
sump goes
down, the float opens the valve releasing water, and vice versa. You can
have an air hole
(or refill hole) in the top of your upended bottle because the valve
controls the
water flow, and will not allow any backfeeding. You can adjust the float to
precisely match your water mark.
I have this same type of float valve on my furnace humidifier, and it keeps
the water within a
fraction of an inch from overflowing my humidifier reservoir.
You would have to keep the replenish reservoir (bottle) above the sump and
the feed tube on the bottom to maintain enough water pressure to flow
through the float valve. The strain on the float valve would be reduced from
that of a pressurized water line and would probably last longer in this type
of application.
The one on my humidifier has been working for 2 seasons without a blip
N.O.W.
The entire float valve fits in the palm of your hand.
When my sump and tank are delivered and we set-up the tank, I'm going to
install the same type of float valve in my sump to replenish evaporation.





"Dave Cobb" > wrote in message
om...
> Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
> "automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
> water-cooler.
>
> A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
> the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
> the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
> reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
> the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.
>
> Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
> thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
> bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
> opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
> the hose at the desired water level.
>
> Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
> the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
> more slowly.
>
> Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
> a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
> and have my sump get low!
>
> Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
> cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
> that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
> filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!

[kim gross]

Do an search for the Nurce, can't remember who made it, but worked just
this way I think the company was aqualan or something like that.

Many people have mad DIY versions and they do work very well.

Kim
http://www.jensalt.com

> Seems like a better idea would be to model a system after the
> "automatic watering" dog/cat bowls. Or the standard office
> water-cooler.
>
> A sealed semi-hard "reservoir" container is suspended upside down and
> the tip (opening) of the container is set at the desired water line in
> the sump... as the sump level gets low, air is then allowed into the
> reservoir and thus allowing some water to escape filling the sump to
> the desired level... until it gets low again and repeats the process.
>
> Of course it would be impractical to stick a bottle into your sump,
> thus you could just add a wide hose to the end of the reservoir
> bottle. One end of the hose would be sealed on the reservoir
> opening... the other would be clamped to your wet/dry with the end of
> the hose at the desired water level.
>
> Unlike the system you recommended this will keeep the sump filled to
> the proper level ALL OF THE TIME... as opposed to the level going down
> more slowly.
>
> Now that we've got this discussion going.. I may just have to build me
> a system like this! I know what it's like to come back from vacation
> and have my sump get low!
>
> Does this make sense? If not, just go find your closest office water
> cooler (the kind with the 5-gallon bottles on top) and observe how
> that works. The water cooler has a small sump that is constantly
> filled by the 5-gallon bottle... but never overflows!