OT ~ Mad Moo Cow in SE WA

[Ka30P]

Well, drat!
Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
not too far from where jj and k30a live.
And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
beef from the plant that processed the poor
cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
our stores, part of the recall.
Not that we're all that worried from what
we've been reading but sheesh!
What a way to waltz into Christmas!
And here I was teasing my CA brother about
his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)






ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
Christmas.

The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website with
the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out that
Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just before
my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is gonna get
tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to clean
up its act, according to news articles coming out.

Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for a
month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify consumers
after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes from
slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan


>On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
>Well, drat!
>Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
>story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
>not too far from where jj and k30a live.
>And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
>beef from the plant that processed the poor
>cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
>our stores, part of the recall.
>Not that we're all that worried from what
>we've been reading but sheesh!
>What a way to waltz into Christmas!
>And here I was teasing my CA brother about
>his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>ka30p
>http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Tom La Bron]

Folks,

Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media driven.
Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you are
eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of anyone,
I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger, steaks,
etc.

Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you may be
at risk.

Tom L.L.
"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
> Christmas.
>
> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website with
> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out
that
> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just before
> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is gonna
get
> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to
clean
> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
>
> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for a
> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify consumers
> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes from
> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
>
>
> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
> >Well, drat!
> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
> >our stores, part of the recall.
> >Not that we're all that worried from what
> >we've been reading but sheesh!
> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >ka30p
> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>
> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

We've been getting some interesting info in our local paper regarding new
machinery called Advance Meat Recovery Systems. This scrapes meat off very
close to the bone and supposedly can pick up some brain or spinal column
tissue where the prions of (BSE) Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy hangs
out. True, it's not in the muscle meat, but hamburger is definitely suspect
w/hot dogs being more so. Heat doesn't kill it.... at least not the heat
temps we cook at.

They say the risk is low, but who wants to be that or 1 person? I'm not
scared enough to toss the meat I have in the freezer purchased prior to
Daisy going thru the system, but I'm not eating it, or any beef, till I get
more answers. ~ jan


>On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:19 -0600, "Tom La Bron" > wrote:

>Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media driven.
>Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you are
>eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of anyone,
>I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger, steaks,
>etc.
>
>Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you may be
>at risk.
>
>Tom L.L.
>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
>> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
>> Christmas.
>>
>> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website with
>> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out
>that
>> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
>> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just before
>> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is gonna
>get
>> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to
>clean
>> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
>>
>> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for a
>> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify consumers
>> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes from
>> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
>>
>>
>> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
>> >Well, drat!
>> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
>> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
>> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
>> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
>> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
>> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
>> >our stores, part of the recall.
>> >Not that we're all that worried from what
>> >we've been reading but sheesh!
>> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
>> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
>> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >ka30p
>> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>>
>> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
>> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>>
>> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
>> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
>> To e-mail see website
>

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Ka30P]

Yes that spinal cord recovery system really
shocked me. How dumb can the industry get?
In testing 30 % of the meat they recovered tested positive for spinal
cord tissue in it. (This is not a test of the current recall, just a test on
the advanced meat recovery system) In addition to hot dogs it goes
into pizza toppings, taco fillings, meatballs, bologna.
And that stuff could end up anywhere in the country.
Since they knew it was only a matter of time when
this showed up in the states WHY did they keep
on doing this advanced meat recovery off of spinal cords?
We are getting a lot of very detailed coverage here since we are the ones who
had ended up with meat that was recalled. The only problem is what if you
already ate it??? Can't recall that!
Supposedly this cow's brains, spinal cord and nerves
were removed and sent to a rendering plant where it was going to, or already
has, been turned into chicken feed or sent to the cosmetics industry (major ew
factor there!).
Though how much we'll ever really know, I'm not sure.


ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[[email protected]]

There is good reason to be cautious Jan. Prions (infectious proteins) have been
shown to infect muscles like the tongue thru the nervous tissue
(http://www.nature.com/nsu/021230/021230-5.html). Muscles are loaded with nerves.
But more important is what is NOT KNOWN. For instance, a meat packer in England got
the human form of BSE even tho he was a vegetarian. They think it was from handling
the meat.
Most puzzling of all is the epidemic of "mad deer" in Wisconsin and other states.
Evidently wild game farms were allowed to feed recycled meat products to their game
farm deer. These deer jumped the fence and mixed with the wild deer population and
it spread. SPREAD???!!!! nobody seems to have a handle on how it spread from deer
to deer in the wild, altho wild deer could have been jumping into the farm and eating
contaminated feed. We do know prion disease has been present in wild Elk for a long
time.
http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consumer/fact_sheets/BSE.htm
suggests that prions can be spread by blood. And you are correct, normal cooking
temps dont kill it, nor does freezing. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:

>We've been getting some interesting info in our local paper regarding new
>machinery called Advance Meat Recovery Systems. This scrapes meat off very
>close to the bone and supposedly can pick up some brain or spinal column
>tissue where the prions of (BSE) Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy hangs
>out. True, it's not in the muscle meat, but hamburger is definitely suspect
>w/hot dogs being more so. Heat doesn't kill it.... at least not the heat
>temps we cook at.
>
>They say the risk is low, but who wants to be that or 1 person? I'm not
>scared enough to toss the meat I have in the freezer purchased prior to
>Daisy going thru the system, but I'm not eating it, or any beef, till I get
>more answers. ~ jan
>
>
>>On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:19 -0600, "Tom La Bron" > wrote:
>
>>Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media driven.
>>Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you are
>>eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of anyone,
>>I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger, steaks,
>>etc.
>>
>>Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you may be
>>at risk.
>>
>>Tom L.L.
>>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
>>> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
>>> Christmas.
>>>
>>> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website with
>>> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out
>>that
>>> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
>>> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just before
>>> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is gonna
>>get
>>> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to
>>clean
>>> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
>>>
>>> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for a
>>> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify consumers
>>> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes from
>>> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
>>>
>>>
>>> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
>>> >Well, drat!
>>> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
>>> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
>>> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
>>> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
>>> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
>>> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
>>> >our stores, part of the recall.
>>> >Not that we're all that worried from what
>>> >we've been reading but sheesh!
>>> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
>>> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
>>> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >ka30p
>>> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>>>
>>> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
>>> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>>>
>>> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
>>> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
>>> To e-mail see website
>>
>
>See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
>http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[T]

Ah well, its like the cow in Canada.. When everyone went nuts to avoid
Canadian Beef, it was barely noted that cow originally came from a US
producer, most likely where it originally contracted the BSE... How ironic
is it when the shoe is on the other foot.??.. I suspect the beef market in
the US is going to be in some trouble for the next year or so.

Timmer...


> wrote in message
...
> There is good reason to be cautious Jan. Prions (infectious proteins)
have been
> shown to infect muscles like the tongue thru the nervous tissue
> (http://www.nature.com/nsu/021230/021230-5.html). Muscles are loaded with
nerves.
> But more important is what is NOT KNOWN. For instance, a meat packer in
England got
> the human form of BSE even tho he was a vegetarian. They think it was
from handling
> the meat.
> Most puzzling of all is the epidemic of "mad deer" in Wisconsin and other
states.
> Evidently wild game farms were allowed to feed recycled meat products to
their game
> farm deer. These deer jumped the fence and mixed with the wild deer
population and
> it spread. SPREAD???!!!! nobody seems to have a handle on how it spread
from deer
> to deer in the wild, altho wild deer could have been jumping into the farm
and eating
> contaminated feed. We do know prion disease has been present in wild Elk
for a long
> time.
> http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consumer/fact_sheets/BSE.htm
> suggests that prions can be spread by blood. And you are correct, normal
cooking
> temps dont kill it, nor does freezing. Ingrid
>
> ~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>
> >We've been getting some interesting info in our local paper regarding new
> >machinery called Advance Meat Recovery Systems. This scrapes meat off
very
> >close to the bone and supposedly can pick up some brain or spinal column
> >tissue where the prions of (BSE) Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy hangs
> >out. True, it's not in the muscle meat, but hamburger is definitely
suspect
> >w/hot dogs being more so. Heat doesn't kill it.... at least not the heat
> >temps we cook at.
> >
> >They say the risk is low, but who wants to be that or 1 person? I'm not
> >scared enough to toss the meat I have in the freezer purchased prior to
> >Daisy going thru the system, but I'm not eating it, or any beef, till I
get
> >more answers. ~ jan
> >
> >
> >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:19 -0600, "Tom La Bron" >
wrote:
> >
> >>Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media
driven.
> >>Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you
are
> >>eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of
anyone,
> >>I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger, steaks,
> >>etc.
> >>
> >>Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you may
be
> >>at risk.
> >>
> >>Tom L.L.
> >>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
> >>> Christmas.
> >>>
> >>> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website
with
> >>> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out
> >>that
> >>> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
> >>> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just
before
> >>> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is
gonna
> >>get
> >>> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to
> >>clean
> >>> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for
a
> >>> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify
consumers
> >>> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes
from
> >>> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
> >>> >Well, drat!
> >>> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
> >>> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
> >>> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
> >>> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
> >>> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
> >>> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
> >>> >our stores, part of the recall.
> >>> >Not that we're all that worried from what
> >>> >we've been reading but sheesh!
> >>> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
> >>> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
> >>> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >ka30p
> >>> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> >>>
> >>> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> >>> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> >>>
> >>> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> >>> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> >>> To e-mail see website
> >>
> >
> >See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> >http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> >
> > ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> > Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> > To e-mail see website
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Janet]

Well said Timmer. What we find ironic up here is that when our case was
detected according to the almighty US Ag Dept it was the end of the world.
Now that a case has been found on US soil it's "nothing to worry about"...
I hate to say it but karma has a way of coming back and biting one in the
butt. Every other world market has been reopened to Canadian beef *except*
the US, all thanks to the extensive lobbying on Capital Hill of the US
Cattlemens Assoc. Thanks to that lobbying the US cattle industry has been
enjoying almost record high prices at the expense of Canadian cattlemen who
are still facing loosing everything...
For those who don't know the facts millions of head of US born beef are
shipped into Canada as "feeders" to be fattened up on cheap Canadian wheat.
They are then either shipped back to the US for slaughter or slaughtered
here and shipped back as carcasses....
Janet

"T" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Ah well, its like the cow in Canada.. When everyone went nuts to avoid
> Canadian Beef, it was barely noted that cow originally came from a US
> producer, most likely where it originally contracted the BSE... How ironic
> is it when the shoe is on the other foot.??.. I suspect the beef market in
> the US is going to be in some trouble for the next year or so.
>
> Timmer...
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > There is good reason to be cautious Jan. Prions (infectious proteins)
> have been
> > shown to infect muscles like the tongue thru the nervous tissue
> > (http://www.nature.com/nsu/021230/021230-5.html). Muscles are loaded
with
> nerves.
> > But more important is what is NOT KNOWN. For instance, a meat packer in
> England got
> > the human form of BSE even tho he was a vegetarian. They think it was
> from handling
> > the meat.
> > Most puzzling of all is the epidemic of "mad deer" in Wisconsin and
other
> states.
> > Evidently wild game farms were allowed to feed recycled meat products to
> their game
> > farm deer. These deer jumped the fence and mixed with the wild deer
> population and
> > it spread. SPREAD???!!!! nobody seems to have a handle on how it
spread
> from deer
> > to deer in the wild, altho wild deer could have been jumping into the
farm
> and eating
> > contaminated feed. We do know prion disease has been present in wild
Elk
> for a long
> > time.
> > http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consumer/fact_sheets/BSE.htm
> > suggests that prions can be spread by blood. And you are correct,
normal
> cooking
> > temps dont kill it, nor does freezing. Ingrid
> >
> > ~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
> >
> > >We've been getting some interesting info in our local paper regarding
new
> > >machinery called Advance Meat Recovery Systems. This scrapes meat off
> very
> > >close to the bone and supposedly can pick up some brain or spinal
column
> > >tissue where the prions of (BSE) Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy hangs
> > >out. True, it's not in the muscle meat, but hamburger is definitely
> suspect
> > >w/hot dogs being more so. Heat doesn't kill it.... at least not the
heat
> > >temps we cook at.
> > >
> > >They say the risk is low, but who wants to be that or 1 person? I'm not
> > >scared enough to toss the meat I have in the freezer purchased prior to
> > >Daisy going thru the system, but I'm not eating it, or any beef, till I
> get
> > >more answers. ~ jan
> > >
> > >
> > >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:19 -0600, "Tom La Bron"
>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media
> driven.
> > >>Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless
you
> are
> > >>eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of
> anyone,
> > >>I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger,
steaks,
> > >>etc.
> > >>
> > >>Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you
may
> be
> > >>at risk.
> > >>
> > >>Tom L.L.
> > >>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
> > >>> Christmas.
> > >>>
> > >>> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website
> with
> > >>> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found
out
> > >>that
> > >>> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I
purchased.
> > >>> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just
> before
> > >>> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is
> gonna
> > >>get
> > >>> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more
to
> > >>clean
> > >>> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
> > >>>
> > >>> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it
for
> a
> > >>> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify
> consumers
> > >>> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes
> from
> > >>> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
> > >>> >Well, drat!
> > >>> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
> > >>> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
> > >>> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
> > >>> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
> > >>> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
> > >>> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
> > >>> >our stores, part of the recall.
> > >>> >Not that we're all that worried from what
> > >>> >we've been reading but sheesh!
> > >>> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
> > >>> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
> > >>> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >ka30p
> > >>> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> > >>>
> > >>> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> > >>> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> > >>>
> > >>> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> > >>> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> > >>> To e-mail see website
> > >>
> > >
> > >See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> > >http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> > >
> > > ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> > > Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> > > To e-mail see website
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> > http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> > www.drsolo.com
> > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> > endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>

[Clyde Lomax]

Top of the evening,
The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of Washington State?


"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, drat!
> Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
> story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
> not too far from where jj and k30a live.
> And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
> beef from the plant that processed the poor
> cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
> our stores, part of the recall.
> Not that we're all that worried from what
> we've been reading but sheesh!
> What a way to waltz into Christmas!
> And here I was teasing my CA brother about
> his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ka30p
> http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[Ka30P]

Clyde asked
>>The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of Washington State?<<

Latest word is the cow came from Canada
and there will be more.
(NOT to get in the middle of the strains
of "Blame Canada" being of Canadian birth
mineself, but that is what we are hearing
now)


ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[Tom La Bron]

Ingrid is such a gem when it comes to stuff like this.

She gives an article URL and did any one read it or just assumed she knows
what she is talking about. The article states that the tongues of Hamsters
showed high level of prions when the abnormal prions were injected into the
Hamster's Brain. The article goes on to say, and I quote;

"This doesn't prove that cows with BSE have prion-loaded tongues, or that
eating these tongues could cause human disease, says Bessen, who works at
Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska."

Also research has not shown the prions to be in nerve ends and ganglia of
muscle tissue of beef. This is usually found in the brains and the spinal
column nervous system. The article also pointed out that mice remained
healthy when injected with nerve tissue from Beef tongue.

All the article said was that because of what happened with Hamsters, it
would support further research in to this avenue, but nothing conclusive as
been found.

Let us all remember that one cow was found to have the disease and it was
found to have come from Canada two years ago. Also there is no human
response to the disease yet here in the US or Canada from what I have heard
in the form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Also something to remember is that when disease was found in Great Britain
in 1994 in humans by the end of the year only 8 people were infected and to
this day only supposition has been given as to how these people got it,
since there was no correlation between these eight people. Now as the
counting continued in 1999, five years later, the accumulated total of
people that succumbed to the disease were 24.

It would seem to me that if you want to get your underwear in a knot about
something why not start stamping your feet about the AID epidemic in Africa
where every third person in Central Africa has AIDS and in southern Africa
every 4th person has it. In provinces in and around South Africa there are
200,000 children orphaned by AIDS taking both Mother and Father. These chi
ldren have no one. There are no social services like here in the US or
Canada. The children have nothing or no one to help.

I find this thread interesting that there is all this pointing of fingers,
and some of Canadian members seem to be gleeful because is has happened here
in the US. If you wanted to be scared about a possible situation, think
what would happen in both the US, Canada and Europe if MCD got into the
Holstein herds. Holsteins produce 95% of the milk worldwide. Hey, milk
has proteins, if milk producing herds had to be destroyed it would devastate
both the US and Canada, not forgetting Europe.

Let's just hope that now something will we done, instead of just pointing
fingers and the making of political accusations.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> There is good reason to be cautious Jan. Prions (infectious proteins)
have been
> shown to infect muscles like the tongue thru the nervous tissue
> (http://www.nature.com/nsu/021230/021230-5.html). Muscles are loaded with
nerves.
> But more important is what is NOT KNOWN. For instance, a meat packer in
England got
> the human form of BSE even tho he was a vegetarian. They think it was
from handling
> the meat.
> Most puzzling of all is the epidemic of "mad deer" in Wisconsin and other
states.
> Evidently wild game farms were allowed to feed recycled meat products to
their game
> farm deer. These deer jumped the fence and mixed with the wild deer
population and
> it spread. SPREAD???!!!! nobody seems to have a handle on how it spread
from deer
> to deer in the wild, altho wild deer could have been jumping into the farm
and eating
> contaminated feed. We do know prion disease has been present in wild Elk
for a long
> time.
> http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consumer/fact_sheets/BSE.htm
> suggests that prions can be spread by blood. And you are correct, normal
cooking
> temps dont kill it, nor does freezing. Ingrid
>
> ~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>
> >We've been getting some interesting info in our local paper regarding new
> >machinery called Advance Meat Recovery Systems. This scrapes meat off
very
> >close to the bone and supposedly can pick up some brain or spinal column
> >tissue where the prions of (BSE) Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy hangs
> >out. True, it's not in the muscle meat, but hamburger is definitely
suspect
> >w/hot dogs being more so. Heat doesn't kill it.... at least not the heat
> >temps we cook at.
> >
> >They say the risk is low, but who wants to be that or 1 person? I'm not
> >scared enough to toss the meat I have in the freezer purchased prior to
> >Daisy going thru the system, but I'm not eating it, or any beef, till I
get
> >more answers. ~ jan
> >
> >
> >>On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:54:19 -0600, "Tom La Bron" >
wrote:
> >
> >>Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media
driven.
> >>Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you
are
> >>eating raw meat you won't get MCD. Plus there are no known cases of
anyone,
> >>I repeat, anyone getting MCD from Muscle tissue, like hamburger, steaks,
> >>etc.
> >>
> >>Now if you are into eating Cow Brains in your scramble eggs then you may
be
> >>at risk.
> >>
> >>Tom L.L.
> >>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> Yup, and jj was in the now infamous Moses Lake, her home town, for
> >>> Christmas.
> >>>
> >>> The internet is so nice though, I was able to go right to a website
with
> >>> the phone #s of the meat company. They where very nice and I found out
> >>that
> >>> Death Daisy isn't in any of the hamburger-in-a-tube that I purchased.
> >>> Though I do worry that Daisy might have gone thru the grinder just
before
> >>> my burger did, so one pack that is dated well after her demise is
gonna
> >>get
> >>> tossed. As always though, it appears our industry needs to do more to
> >>clean
> >>> up its act, according to news articles coming out.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone might want to consider buying their beef and freezing it for
a
> >>> month before consuming since it took 10 days for them to notify
consumers
> >>> after slaughter. We yet to be given information on how long it takes
from
> >>> slaughter to the dinner table. Perhaps someone here knows? ~ jan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >On 25 Dec 2003 20:17:57 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
> >>> >Well, drat!
> >>> >Here SE WA is in the news and not a happy
> >>> >story. The Mad Moo Cow came from a farm
> >>> >not too far from where jj and k30a live.
> >>> >And it looks like both jj and k30a had ground
> >>> >beef from the plant that processed the poor
> >>> >cow. All ground meat is off the shelves at
> >>> >our stores, part of the recall.
> >>> >Not that we're all that worried from what
> >>> >we've been reading but sheesh!
> >>> >What a way to waltz into Christmas!
> >>> >And here I was teasing my CA brother about
> >>> >his free range turkey at Thanksgiving! ;-)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >ka30p
> >>> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> >>>
> >>> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> >>> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> >>>
> >>> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> >>> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> >>> To e-mail see website
> >>
> >
> >See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> >http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
> >
> > ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> > Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
> > To e-mail see website
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[T]

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> Clyde asked
> >>The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of Washington
State?<<
>
> Latest word is the cow came from Canada
> and there will be more.
> (NOT to get in the middle of the strains
> of "Blame Canada" being of Canadian birth
> mineself, but that is what we are hearing
> now)
>
>
> ka30p
> http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html


I smell a rat... Seems almost to much like a coincidence to me...( BTW I
don't believe in coincidences because things happen for a reason...) I heard
from an employee from a very large Chain store that there was talk about
nixxing the imports because Canada was going to have a problem with thier
domestic beef... Funny how the shoe fits, and how much irritation it has
caused because its a tight shoe... Essshh..

Tim...

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Clyde asked
>>>The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of Washington State?<<

Probably the first one that showed a problem and got tested?

Supposedly there were 70 some that came from the same original farm, and
they're tracking all those down. Since they're dairy cows I assume we're
not in dire trouble if none of the others have been slaughtered as of yet.

In Canada, were they dairy or beef cows that tested positive? I'm not about
to place blame either way. What's true and/or what really is we don't find
out till 20 years, since our governments can seem to keep their own
information straight. So far I've heard that "Daisy" was 12 yo, 6 yo, 4.5
yo. Sheesh. I think we can trust she was a cow. ;o) ~ jan

>On 27 Dec 2003 21:09:32 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:

>Latest word is the cow came from Canada
>and there will be more.
>(NOT to get in the middle of the strains
>of "Blame Canada" being of Canadian birth
>mineself, but that is what we are hearing
>now)
>
>
>ka30p
>http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Offbreed]

"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message >...
> Folks,
>
> Of course, you must know that the majority of this scare is media driven.
> Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is transmitted trough nerve tissue and unless you are
> eating raw meat you won't get MCD.

Excuse me, but that is inaccurate.

The proteins that cause this class of disease can withstand cooking.
It can withstand anything that does not turn it into ashes, which
poses a bit of a problem for surgeons; steam sterilizers are not hot
enough to decontaminate surgical instruments (per a news article on
the subject back when England was having trouble with it).

CWD in deer: One of the posters in misc.rural stated that she had been
told by her vet that chronic wasting desease was carried by rabbits
and deer got it by eating rabbit dung. (That seems an odd thing for
deer to eat, and raises the question as to how deer catch it from
other deer.) She was going to get back to the group on monday. I was
not able to find anything on the net about that link.

(There's many different prion diseases, and if this is the same one
that caused a few human deaths, then how come there have not been a
lot more human deaths? Lots of wild rabbits get eaten every year.)

The posters in misc.rural are pretty concerned as several of them
raise cattle. The group has a chronic problem with trolls cross
posting to the animal politics groups and the veggy groups, so you
will need to pick and choose which to read. The main thread is "Holy
****" <G>.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>She gives an article URL and did any one read it

I didn't read it, because what she had to say was good enough for me. ;o)

>Let us all remember that one cow was found to have the disease and it was
>found to have come from Canada two years ago. Also there is no human
>response to the disease yet here in the US or Canada from what I have heard
>in the form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Well it's a little too soon to track that. But there have been cases
(not-trackable to cause) of CJ disease in the US.

>Also something to remember is that when disease was found in Great Britain
>in 1994

Is that the year they admitted to having it or actually found it? My
understanding from articles is GB kept it quiet for some time and that is
why they suffered the deaths and financial losses that they did.

>stamping your feet about the AID epidemic in Africa
>The children have nothing or no one to help.

Let's not go there, start a new thread about it if you wish, else I'm apt
to say something really stupid and insensitive like "They have Oprah" and I
don't want to do that. We can discuss MCD if we want, for goodness sake.

>some of Canadian members seem to be gleeful

I didn't get that impression at all. I sure can understand the feelings of
"what goes around comes around" as far as how Canada was treated like it
had the plague and our officials are pooing pooing our problem and saying
"low/minimal risk". Like excuse me, I possibly ate this GD cow and there is
no test or cure and the disease is like really awful to die from? Don't be
telling me "low risk, or even very low risk" after I've eaten the dang
thing!!! I like to make a choice when it comes to risky behavior.

>what would happen in both the US, Canada and Europe if MCD got into the
>Holstein herds. Holsteins produce 95% of the milk worldwide.

Hate to burst your bubble, Tom, but apparently you haven't been keeping up
with this current story. 1) It was a Dairy Cow and 2) It doesn't get into
the milk (at least that is what they're telling us). All farms under
quarantine right now are Dairy Farms.

>Let's just hope that now something will we done

On that note, I fully agree!! Micro Chip those doggies, E I E I O!
~ jan

~Keep 'em Wet~
Zone 7a

[T]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >Clyde asked
> >>>The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of Washington
State?<<
>
> Probably the first one that showed a problem and got tested?
>
> Supposedly there were 70 some that came from the same original farm, and
> they're tracking all those down. Since they're dairy cows I assume we're
> not in dire trouble if none of the others have been slaughtered as of yet.
>
> In Canada, were they dairy or beef cows that tested positive? I'm not
about
> to place blame either way. What's true and/or what really is we don't find
> out till 20 years, since our governments can seem to keep their own
> information straight. So far I've heard that "Daisy" was 12 yo, 6 yo, 4.5
> yo. Sheesh. I think we can trust she was a cow. ;o) ~ jan
>
> >On 27 Dec 2003 21:09:32 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:
>
> >Latest word is the cow came from Canada
> >and there will be more.
> >(NOT to get in the middle of the strains
> >of "Blame Canada" being of Canadian birth
> >mineself, but that is what we are hearing
> >now)
> >
> >
> >ka30p
> >http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>
> See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Defrosted~
> Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a



> To e-mail see website

Check the cbc.ca website... There seems to be a problem on the age of the
animal.. Apparently no one can decide on the age of the cow... I think the
article mentioned that the US records show the animal to be a little over
four years old, and the rancher they are interogating on the Canadian side
mentioned it was born in 1997.. About two years difference... Something has
gone astray here and there is going to be a bit of a wait.. At least the
Canadians never shut of the imprtation of the beef from the younger animals,
which has to be a bit of relief for the US ranchers.. Also, I thought the
other day Mr Limbaugh had a guest on talking about this situation... I
thought he mentioned something along the lines about cattle being this old
are generally have thier meat ground, typically used for Pooch food, and
often sold to fast food restaurants for patties or taco meat.. Makes me
think about a certain restuarant a few years back, using imported meat from
Oz.. Did anyone mention it was Kangaroo?

I think we need to sit back a bit and see what comes from this.. Theres
something not being said ( well D'uh, hard to trust any news source... thank
you big bro... ).. Its nice to vent some steam but I know we are semi
reasonable ( or at least I try to be ) and we can wait out the ride.

Tim...

[Janet]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
>
> >some of Canadian members seem to be gleeful
>
> I didn't get that impression at all. I sure can understand the feelings of
> "what goes around comes around" as far as how Canada was treated like it
> had the plague and our officials are pooing pooing our problem and saying
> "low/minimal risk". Like excuse me, I possibly ate this GD cow and there
is
> no test or cure and the disease is like really awful to die from? Don't be
> telling me "low risk, or even very low risk" after I've eaten the dang
> thing!!! I like to make a choice when it comes to risky behavior.
>
>
> On that note, I fully agree!! Micro Chip those doggies, E I E I O!
> ~ jan
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet~
> Zone 7a
>
This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to us
the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on US
soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you don't
know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was formed
in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one in
place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal leaves
its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can only
be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the tag
is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a history
on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If there
is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the system. No
animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to the
lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for at
least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension based
on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are "working" on
it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so far
as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They are
holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best for
the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the manure
pile...
Janet

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
(newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
"Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US disease
free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders to our
beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think so,
bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I know,
and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a singular
incident (as they are also claiming).

As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to the
rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where your
critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate these
people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to kick the
Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
Zone 7a

>This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to us
>the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on US
>soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you don't
>know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was formed
>in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
>demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one in
>place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal leaves
>its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can only
>be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the tag
>is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a history
>on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If there
>is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the system. No
>animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to the
>lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for at
>least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension based
>on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are "working" on
>it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
>research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so far
>as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
>Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They are
>holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best for
>the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the manure
>pile...
> Janet
>

[Janet]

I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our Canadian
AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy". The
information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to be 6 but
the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing by that
"fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's" identity.
Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at least 2
more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags to be
removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from Canada into
the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and dairies
remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our media is
reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but took them
out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or sending
to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back in
possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions of
animals a year are moving across the border and back again....

I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's ass
for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20. They
have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers operate.
Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like great-grandpappy
did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for YOU to
eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved to
several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives (less
than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a disease
outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess it did
huh?
Janet


"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
disease
> free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders to
our
> beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think so,
> bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
> Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
know,
> and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a singular
> incident (as they are also claiming).
>
> As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to the
> rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
> Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
> one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where your
> critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate these
> people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to kick
the
> Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> Zone 7a
>
> >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to
us
> >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on US
> >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you don't
> >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
formed
> >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
> >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one
in
> >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal
leaves
> >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can
only
> >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the
tag
> >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
history
> >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If
there
> >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the system.
No
> >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to the
> >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for at
> >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension
based
> >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are "working"
on
> >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
> >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so
far
> >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
> >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They are
> >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best
for
> >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the manure
> >pile...
> > Janet
> >
>

[T]

Common sense does not seem to be to common.. You would think to insure the
integrity of the heard they would leave the tags alone and use another tag
along side of it... The problem with not knowing where Daisy came from is
going to be an intresting case ( like I mentioned at the bottom of the
thread ). Not trying to point fingers, but when there is a removal of the
takes it defianatly upsets the apple cart, making things a lot harder to
prove and yes, much more expensive to the tax payer in eithier country.. As
far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found in
Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of doubt...
But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??

Tim..
-
"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our Canadian
> AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy". The
> information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to be 6
but
> the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing by
that
> "fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's"
identity.
> Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at least 2
> more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
> Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags to be
> removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from Canada
into
> the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and dairies
> remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our media is
> reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but took
them
> out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or
sending
> to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back in
> possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions of
> animals a year are moving across the border and back again....
>
> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's
ass
> for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20. They
> have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
> control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers
operate.
> Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like great-grandpappy
> did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for YOU
to
> eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved to
> several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives (less
> than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a disease
> outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess it
did
> huh?
> Janet
>
>
> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> > (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> > "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
> disease
> > free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders to
> our
> > beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think so,
> > bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
> > Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
> know,
> > and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a singular
> > incident (as they are also claiming).
> >
> > As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to
the
> > rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
> > Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
> > one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where
your
> > critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate these
> > people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to kick
> the
> > Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> > Zone 7a
> >
> > >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to
> us
> > >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on
US
> > >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you
don't
> > >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
> formed
> > >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
> > >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one
> in
> > >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal
> leaves
> > >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can
> only
> > >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the
> tag
> > >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
> history
> > >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If
> there
> > >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the
system.
> No
> > >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> > > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to
the
> > >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for
at
> > >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension
> based
> > >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are
"working"
> on
> > >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
> > >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so
> far
> > >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
> > >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They
are
> > >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best
> for
> > >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the
manure
> > >pile...
> > > Janet
> > >
> >
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Tim Wrote:
>far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found in
>Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of doubt...
>But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
>
Truth be told, I can't remember that, probably because it never got to our
newspapers, ya think? Wonder who held that news up? If it did, it probably
said, the cow got it (BSE) after it entered Canada. There isn't a story
on-line regarding that somewhere is there? I'd like to send it to my local
paper. ~ jan


>On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:47:46 GMT, "T" > wrote:

>Common sense does not seem to be to common.. You would think to insure the
>integrity of the heard they would leave the tags alone and use another tag
>along side of it... The problem with not knowing where Daisy came from is
>going to be an intresting case ( like I mentioned at the bottom of the
>thread ). Not trying to point fingers, but when there is a removal of the
>takes it defianatly upsets the apple cart, making things a lot harder to
>prove and yes, much more expensive to the tax payer in eithier country.. As
>far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found in
>Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of doubt...
>But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
>
>Tim..
>-
>"Janet" > wrote in message
...
>> I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our Canadian
>> AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy". The
>> information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to be 6
>but
>> the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing by
>that
>> "fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's"
>identity.
>> Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at least 2
>> more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
>> Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags to be
>> removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from Canada
>into
>> the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and dairies
>> remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our media is
>> reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but took
>them
>> out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or
>sending
>> to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back in
>> possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions of
>> animals a year are moving across the border and back again....
>>
>> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's
>ass
>> for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20. They
>> have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
>> control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers
>operate.
>> Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like great-grandpappy
>> did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for YOU
>to
>> eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved to
>> several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives (less
>> than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a disease
>> outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess it
>did
>> huh?
>> Janet
>>
>>
>> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
>> > (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
>> > "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
>> disease
>> > free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders to
>> our
>> > beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think so,
>> > bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
>> > Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
>> know,
>> > and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a singular
>> > incident (as they are also claiming).
>> >
>> > As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to
>the
>> > rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
>> > Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
>> > one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where
>your
>> > critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate these
>> > people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to kick
>> the
>> > Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
>> > Zone 7a
>> >
>> > >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to
>> us
>> > >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on
>US
>> > >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you
>don't
>> > >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
>> formed
>> > >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
>> > >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one
>> in
>> > >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal
>> leaves
>> > >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can
>> only
>> > >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the
>> tag
>> > >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
>> history
>> > >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If
>> there
>> > >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the
>system.
>> No
>> > >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
>> > > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to
>the
>> > >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for
>at
>> > >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension
>> based
>> > >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are
>"working"
>> on
>> > >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
>> > >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so
>> far
>> > >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
>> > >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They
>are
>> > >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best
>> for
>> > >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the
>manure
>> > >pile...
>> > > Janet
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[T]

I believe, it was on a Canadian website.. Somehow I think it was the cbc.ca
website or one of its provincial sites.. If I had it some wheres I would
kindly send it to you. For some reason I believe it came from a mid western
state... Perhaps some of the Canadians here can remember where it wa run or
if it was run in local news print they might be able to direct you to the
source.. How ever there have been some security measures in place in
Canadian airports for quite some time, by the means of a very well saturated
( I presume with some disinfectant ) longer floor matt to great
international arrivals. So subtle no one really notices it but it does clean
and disinfect the shoes of the travellers. never noticed one here in any US
airports, although this may have changed from the last time I flew any
wheres ( a week before 9/11 ).. I am very intrested in this story, because I
am intrested to see what kind of fluctuations it will have on the markets...

Tim...

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Wrote:
> >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found
in
> >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
doubt...
> >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> >
> Truth be told, I can't remember that, probably because it never got to our
> newspapers, ya think? Wonder who held that news up? If it did, it probably
> said, the cow got it (BSE) after it entered Canada. There isn't a story
> on-line regarding that somewhere is there? I'd like to send it to my local
> paper. ~ jan
>
>
> >On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:47:46 GMT, "T" > wrote:
>
> >Common sense does not seem to be to common.. You would think to insure
the
> >integrity of the heard they would leave the tags alone and use another
tag
> >along side of it... The problem with not knowing where Daisy came from is
> >going to be an intresting case ( like I mentioned at the bottom of the
> >thread ). Not trying to point fingers, but when there is a removal of the
> >takes it defianatly upsets the apple cart, making things a lot harder to
> >prove and yes, much more expensive to the tax payer in eithier country..
As
> >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found
in
> >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
doubt...
> >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> >
> >Tim..
> >-
> >"Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our
Canadian
> >> AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy". The
> >> information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to be
6
> >but
> >> the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing by
> >that
> >> "fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's"
> >identity.
> >> Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at least
2
> >> more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
> >> Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags to
be
> >> removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from Canada
> >into
> >> the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and
dairies
> >> remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our media
is
> >> reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but took
> >them
> >> out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or
> >sending
> >> to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back in
> >> possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions of
> >> animals a year are moving across the border and back again....
> >>
> >> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a
rat's
> >ass
> >> for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20.
They
> >> have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
> >> control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers
> >operate.
> >> Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like
great-grandpappy
> >> did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for
YOU
> >to
> >> eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved to
> >> several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives
(less
> >> than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a
disease
> >> outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess
it
> >did
> >> huh?
> >> Janet
> >>
> >>
> >> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> >> > (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> >> > "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
> >> disease
> >> > free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders
to
> >> our
> >> > beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think
so,
> >> > bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
> >> > Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
> >> know,
> >> > and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a
singular
> >> > incident (as they are also claiming).
> >> >
> >> > As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to
> >the
> >> > rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag
them.
> >> > Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know
which
> >> > one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where
> >your
> >> > critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate
these
> >> > people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to
kick
> >> the
> >> > Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> >> > Zone 7a
> >> >
> >> > >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened
to
> >> us
> >> > >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's
on
> >US
> >> > >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you
> >don't
> >> > >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
> >> formed
> >> > >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the
EU
> >> > >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have
one
> >> in
> >> > >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an
animal
> >> leaves
> >> > >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags
can
> >> only
> >> > >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When
the
> >> tag
> >> > >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
> >> history
> >> > >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer.
If
> >> there
> >> > >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the
> >system.
> >> No
> >> > >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> >> > > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due
to
> >the
> >> > >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this
for
> >at
> >> > >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an
extension
> >> based
> >> > >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are
> >"working"
> >> on
> >> > >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered
it's
> >> > >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone
so
> >> far
> >> > >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the
US
> >> > >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They
> >are
> >> > >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's
best
> >> for
> >> > >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the
> >manure
> >> > >pile...
> >> > > Janet
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[john rutz]

Ka30P wrote:
> Clyde asked
>
>>> The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of
>>> Washington State?<<
>>
>
> Latest word is the cow came from Canada and there will be more. (NOT
> to get in the middle of the strains of "Blame Canada" being of
> Canadian birth mineself, but that is what we are hearing now)
>
>
> ka30p http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
an my question is how long have we been eating cows like this without
indident till some test tube type named it?

John Rutz
( who wont eat anything that doesnt have four legs and horns)

[Janet]

Jan I've pulled up a couple os stories that ran but the news service stories
don't seem to be archived. Here's the links..
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030703.wcoww0703/BNStory/National/
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/07/03/madcow_us030703
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030704/UCOWWN/TPNational/TopStories
The last article that I read on this after some snooping around the net
reports that the Canadian AG dept at the end of their extensive
investigation could only say with 95% certainty that the cow that tested
positive was Canadian born. They felt it was highly likely that the cow in
question came into Canada ( most likely as a fetus)during the mass
importation of the 25,000 head of pregnant females. It is now known that
those females were fed feed in the US that contained animal proteins...
Janet


"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Wrote:
> >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found
in
> >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
doubt...
> >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> >
> Truth be told, I can't remember that, probably because it never got to our
> newspapers, ya think? Wonder who held that news up? If it did, it probably
> said, the cow got it (BSE) after it entered Canada. There isn't a story
> on-line regarding that somewhere is there? I'd like to send it to my local
> paper. ~ jan
>
>
> >On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:47:46 GMT, "T" > wrote:
>
> >Common sense does not seem to be to common.. You would think to insure
the
> >integrity of the heard they would leave the tags alone and use another
tag
> >along side of it... The problem with not knowing where Daisy came from is
> >going to be an intresting case ( like I mentioned at the bottom of the
> >thread ). Not trying to point fingers, but when there is a removal of the
> >takes it defianatly upsets the apple cart, making things a lot harder to
> >prove and yes, much more expensive to the tax payer in eithier country..
As
> >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was found
in
> >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
doubt...
> >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> >
> >Tim..
> >-
> >"Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our
Canadian
> >> AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy". The
> >> information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to be
6
> >but
> >> the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing by
> >that
> >> "fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's"
> >identity.
> >> Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at least
2
> >> more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
> >> Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags to
be
> >> removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from Canada
> >into
> >> the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and
dairies
> >> remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our media
is
> >> reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but took
> >them
> >> out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or
> >sending
> >> to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back in
> >> possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions of
> >> animals a year are moving across the border and back again....
> >>
> >> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a
rat's
> >ass
> >> for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20.
They
> >> have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
> >> control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers
> >operate.
> >> Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like
great-grandpappy
> >> did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for
YOU
> >to
> >> eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved to
> >> several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives
(less
> >> than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a
disease
> >> outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess
it
> >did
> >> huh?
> >> Janet
> >>
> >>
> >> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> >> > (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> >> > "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
> >> disease
> >> > free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders
to
> >> our
> >> > beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think
so,
> >> > bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
> >> > Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
> >> know,
> >> > and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a
singular
> >> > incident (as they are also claiming).
> >> >
> >> > As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to
> >the
> >> > rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag
them.
> >> > Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know
which
> >> > one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where
> >your
> >> > critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate
these
> >> > people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to
kick
> >> the
> >> > Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> >> > Zone 7a
> >> >
> >> > >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened
to
> >> us
> >> > >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's
on
> >US
> >> > >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you
> >don't
> >> > >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
> >> formed
> >> > >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the
EU
> >> > >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have
one
> >> in
> >> > >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an
animal
> >> leaves
> >> > >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags
can
> >> only
> >> > >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When
the
> >> tag
> >> > >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
> >> history
> >> > >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer.
If
> >> there
> >> > >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the
> >system.
> >> No
> >> > >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> >> > > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due
to
> >the
> >> > >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this
for
> >at
> >> > >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an
extension
> >> based
> >> > >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are
> >"working"
> >> on
> >> > >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered
it's
> >> > >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone
so
> >> far
> >> > >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the
US
> >> > >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They
> >are
> >> > >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's
best
> >> for
> >> > >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the
> >manure
> >> > >pile...
> >> > > Janet
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[[email protected]]

I dont know .... the deer hunters in Wisconsin know about the "mad deer" disease in
the deer they are shooting and eating.. doesnt stop em at all. Ingrid

"T" > wrote:

>Ah well, its like the cow in Canada.. When everyone went nuts to avoid
>Canadian Beef, it was barely noted that cow originally came from a US
>producer, most likely where it originally contracted the BSE... How ironic
>is it when the shoe is on the other foot.??.. I suspect the beef market in
>the US is going to be in some trouble for the next year or so.
>
>Timmer...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

but it doesnt appear that BSE can be transmitted vertically to young... or thru milk.
Or are they saying there is evidence of that now? Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to the
>rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
>Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
>one.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

it is all "bottom line". they arent allowed to feed recycled meat byproducts to
animals going into the human food chain, but they lobbied to allow "downers" or lame
cattle into the human food chain.... and that is where this problem started.
Ingrid

"Janet" > wrote:
> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's ass
>for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20. They
>have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
>control everything....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

I have not actually done research on prions, altho I am a virologist and the chairman
of the department where I went to school did do research on prions, using hamsters as
a model system. I might say this guy studied every know agent that causes brains to
go to mush and had freezers full of the stuff and infected brains and frankly his
lab scared me more than down a floor where they were studying the bacteria cause
toxic shock syndrome and highly pathogenic strep (my DH). or the floor below
studying the virus that causes genital warts (and the whole lab was infected after a
centrifuge tube broke). I digress.
two things affect infectivity. host adaptation and dose. when he started shooting
the hamsters up with prions from another species the hamsters were showing disease
near the end of their life. had to use a high dose as well. when the brains of the
hamsters were homogenized and used to infect other hamsters the dose of prion needed
to infect went way down and the time from infection to disease got shorter. this is
called passaging and each passage had a reduction in amount and time to symptom.
There is a specific warning about "offal" which includes intestines. intestines also
includes lymphatic tissues sites of immune system cells called Peyers patches.
lymphatic tissue is suspect including the spleen, another large site of immune cells.

every time animals take a dump cells of the intestines are scraped off with the crap.
one reason people can fingerprint individual animals from their dung or spoor.
rabbits are rather inefficient and even my dogs would go for rabbit poop in a big
way. I would be very interested in what the other group has to say about CWD
transmission in deer. I know the game farms have admitted feeding meat/bone meal to
game animals and losing them over fences.
Here in Wisconsin there was a guy up north that was a big hunter, had these huge
dinner parties with lots of wild game of all kinds. He has died of CJD and I have
heard so have some of his guests. So eating a lot of wild game it is more likely to
get an infected animal AND get a big enough dose to cause disease.
Yes, there sure are all kinds of prion diseases. Ingrid


(Offbreed) wrote:
>CWD in deer: One of the posters in misc.rural stated that she had been
>told by her vet that chronic wasting desease was carried by rabbits
>and deer got it by eating rabbit dung. (That seems an odd thing for
>deer to eat, and raises the question as to how deer catch it from
>other deer.) She was going to get back to the group on monday. I was
>not able to find anything on the net about that link.
>
>(There's many different prion diseases, and if this is the same one
>that caused a few human deaths, then how come there have not been a
>lot more human deaths? Lots of wild rabbits get eaten every year.)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

They want to test the calf to prove it doesn't travel, is my impression.
~ jan

>On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 04:54:00 GMT, wrote:

>but it doesnt appear that BSE can be transmitted vertically to young... or thru milk.
>Or are they saying there is evidence of that now? Ingrid
>
>~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>>As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to the
>>rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
>>Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
>>one.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>From "Janet":
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030703.wcoww0703/BNStory/National/
>http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/07/03/madcow_us030703
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030704/UCOWWN/TPNational/TopStories

Wow, thanks Janet. Course they don't really say they knew much either. From
the last article, "While it is more likely the cow contracted BSE from a
Canadian source" I add, the rest of the article bascially said, there was
only a 5% chance it came from the US, and if so, was given feed prior to
the 1997 ban. Basically no evidence to claim it absolutely came from the
US.

>The last article that I read on this after some snooping around the net
>reports that the Canadian AG dept at the end of their extensive
>investigation could only say with 95% certainty that the cow that tested
>positive was Canadian born. They felt it was highly likely that the cow in
>question came into Canada ( most likely as a fetus)during the mass
>importation of the 25,000 head of pregnant females. It is now known that
>those females were fed feed in the US that contained animal proteins...

So you're saying you got the impression from the articles it was the fetus
that picked up BSE from the mother eating infected feed? The fetus and
eventually calf/cow was the one they found infected? I must be
misunderstanding, because Canada only found 1 BSE cow, if the calf had it,
so would have the mother. Unless the calf was fed contaminated feed, which
it would have gotten in Canada if born there from the PG US cow. ???

I don't think they've yet to prove it transfers from cow to calf, my
understanding, so far, is they're fairly sure it does not. Hopefully we'll
should find something out regarding that, when they track down "Daisy's"
offspring and test them, since she obviously had BSE before birthing them.
In the meantime, I wish they'd find out where those other 73 Holstein cows
are. <hurrumpt>

Oh well.... just read in the paper today that even though we have banned
these cow parts as cattle feed, we still feed it to other livestock and
since all this feed is usually made in the same warehouses, a little
sloppiness and we end up with cattle eating cow brains. Honestly, I sure
hope they fix this. I think I'm going to go organic until than. ~ jan

[John Hines]

wrote:

>I dont know .... the deer hunters in Wisconsin know about the "mad deer" disease in
>the deer they are shooting and eating.. doesnt stop em at all. Ingrid

Yeah, but don't they have to send the heads in for analysis?

[T]

Good point, which is why I mainly consume poultry, as I find red meat to be
very hard on my digestive system IE my case of diverticulitus may have been
caused by a staple high in red meats, but also from not eating enough fibers
as well.

Tim...
"john rutz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Ka30P wrote:
> > Clyde asked
> >
> >>> The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of
> >>> Washington State?<<
> >>
> >
> > Latest word is the cow came from Canada and there will be more. (NOT
> > to get in the middle of the strains of "Blame Canada" being of
> > Canadian birth mineself, but that is what we are hearing now)
> >
> >
> > ka30p http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> an my question is how long have we been eating cows like this without
> indident till some test tube type named it?
>
> John Rutz
> ( who wont eat anything that doesnt have four legs and horns)
>

[Janet]

See Below...
"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >From "Janet":
>
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030703.wcoww0703/BNSto
ry/National/
> >http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/07/03/madcow_us030703
>
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030704/UCO
WWN/TPNational/TopStories
>
> Wow, thanks Janet. Course they don't really say they knew much either.
From
> the last article, "While it is more likely the cow contracted BSE from a
> Canadian source" I add, the rest of the article bascially said, there was
> only a 5% chance it came from the US, and if so, was given feed prior to
> the 1997 ban. Basically no evidence to claim it absolutely came from the
> US.
>
Exactly Jan, as that mass importation of the 25,000 head took place just
under the wire as to avoid the cattle health registry that was being put
into place. Unfortunately those 25,000 head no longer show their US origins
in the records, hence they cannot be sure. The way the registry works is
that anything that was here and on your farm at the beginning of the program
was tagged as originating at your farm. If a rancher didn't keep their own
records there would be no way to track back from there.

> >The last article that I read on this after some snooping around the net
> >reports that the Canadian AG dept at the end of their extensive
> >investigation could only say with 95% certainty that the cow that tested
> >positive was Canadian born. They felt it was highly likely that the cow
in
> >question came into Canada ( most likely as a fetus)during the mass
> >importation of the 25,000 head of pregnant females. It is now known that
> >those females were fed feed in the US that contained animal proteins...
>
> So you're saying you got the impression from the articles it was the fetus
> that picked up BSE from the mother eating infected feed? The fetus and
> eventually calf/cow was the one they found infected? I must be
> misunderstanding, because Canada only found 1 BSE cow, if the calf had it,
> so would have the mother. Unless the calf was fed contaminated feed, which
> it would have gotten in Canada if born there from the PG US cow. ???
>

IIRC Jan the mother of the cow that tested positive here was previously
deceased so could not be tested. They are doing extensive research on this
now Jan both here and in the UK. Theoretically BSE could pass from mother to
calf in the uterus. Given the fact that there can be such a long incubation
period before symptoms appear. These are just a few of the theories that are
currently be worked on. Personally I find it rather scarey that they don't
know more about BSE.


> I don't think they've yet to prove it transfers from cow to calf, my
> understanding, so far, is they're fairly sure it does not. Hopefully we'll
> should find something out regarding that, when they track down "Daisy's"
> offspring and test them, since she obviously had BSE before birthing them.
> In the meantime, I wish they'd find out where those other 73 Holstein cows
> are. <hurrumpt>
>
> Oh well.... just read in the paper today that even though we have banned
> these cow parts as cattle feed, we still feed it to other livestock and
> since all this feed is usually made in the same warehouses, a little
> sloppiness and we end up with cattle eating cow brains. Honestly, I sure
> hope they fix this. I think I'm going to go organic until than. ~ jan

Isn't this why we see the e-coli recalls in ground beef as well ?? ;o) I
think what burns my butt is that even though the ban involving feed went
into affect in 1997 I read all the time ranchers shouting the fact they
still do it! One in particular over in misc.rural very publically states
that her husband was feeding the banned animal proteins right up until last
year! Now they are crapping their pants! Jan please don't get me going on
organic... read the USDA definitions of what can legally carry the organic
label, it might shock you... :o)
Janet

[Janet]

Exactly Ingrid! The US Cattlemens Assoc spends millions lobbying for what
will be most profitable for the big 3 packers that control the industry.
They couldn't give a rat's ass for the actual rancher or what ends up on
your plate. I have noticed though that they have been unusually quiet
through all this though...
Janet

> wrote in message
...
> it is all "bottom line". they arent allowed to feed recycled meat
byproducts to
> animals going into the human food chain, but they lobbied to allow
"downers" or lame
> cattle into the human food chain.... and that is where this problem
started.
> Ingrid
>
> "Janet" > wrote:
> > I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's
ass
> >for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20.
They
> >have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
> >control everything....
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Janet wrote:
>Personally I find it rather scarey that they don't
>know more about BSE.

Ditto that, we need to get some celeb to champion research, unfortunately
aren't they all vegans? ;o)

> Isn't this why we see the e-coli recalls in ground beef as well ?? ;o)

At least we can kill this by cooking it to death.

>Jan please don't get me going on
>organic... read the USDA definitions of what can legally carry the organic
>label, it might shock you... :o)

I already know, if you're talking veggies and fruit, it's all a bunch of
hype that organic grown veggies and fruits are better/safer. They have
stated in the papers though that organic beef is not fed animal proteins.
Have you heard something different regarding organic meats? Sorry for
making you go on. ;o) ~ jan

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Oh the local CA guys were on our news last night, pointing out that it was
a DAIRY cow and now one of their BEEF cows!!!

I'm like, SO! If the same equipment is used once the infected parts mess
those up, your Angus is suspect in my eyes too. That's why I want to know
where those other 73 Dairy cows are. The USCA can just thank their lucky
stars it was a Dairy cow, but they for sure better take this as a major
wake up call to ID them doggies. ~ jan


>On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:08:30 -0500, "Janet" > wrote:

>Exactly Ingrid! The US Cattlemens Assoc spends millions lobbying for what
>will be most profitable for the big 3 packers that control the industry.
>They couldn't give a rat's ass for the actual rancher or what ends up on
>your plate. I have noticed though that they have been unusually quiet
>through all this though...
> Janet
>
> wrote in message
...
>> it is all "bottom line". they arent allowed to feed recycled meat
>byproducts to
>> animals going into the human food chain, but they lobbied to allow
>"downers" or lame
>> cattle into the human food chain.... and that is where this problem
>started.
>> Ingrid
>>
>> "Janet" > wrote:
>> > I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a rat's
>ass
>> >for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20.
>They
>> >have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers that
>> >control everything....
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>

[Janet]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >Janet wrote:
> >Personally I find it rather scarey that they don't
> >know more about BSE.
>
> Ditto that, we need to get some celeb to champion research, unfortunately
> aren't they all vegans? ;o)
>
> > Isn't this why we see the e-coli recalls in ground beef as well ?? ;o)
>
> At least we can kill this by cooking it to death.
>
> >Jan please don't get me going on
> >organic... read the USDA definitions of what can legally carry the
organic
> >label, it might shock you... :o)
>
> I already know, if you're talking veggies and fruit, it's all a bunch of
> hype that organic grown veggies and fruits are better/safer. They have
> stated in the papers though that organic beef is not fed animal proteins.
> Have you heard something different regarding organic meats? Sorry for
> making you go on. ;o) ~ jan

Jan technically no cattle can and has been fed animal protein based feeds
since 1997. The USDA regs concerning what it takes to label beef (or any
meat) as "organic" are about the same as for fruit and veggies, nothing more
than hype IMO. All the regs do is state the obvious. It does not mean that
the animal has never had antibiotics but it does limit the use of growth
hormones(doesn't ban them though). It also does not mean that the animal has
only been grass fed or been fed "organic" feeds from day 1.Basically, from
experience raising beef cattle, the vast majority would qualify to use the
"organic" label.... :o)
Janet

[[email protected]]

blood can transmit prions, so during birth there is that possibility as the placenta
separates. however, calves dont nurse long on dairy cows, and they are saying this
cow was born before the ban. still no evidence it is transmitted in milk. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>So you're saying you got the impression from the articles it was the fetus
>that picked up BSE from the mother eating infected feed? The fetus and
>eventually calf/cow was the one they found infected? I must be
>misunderstanding, because Canada only found 1 BSE cow, if the calf had it,
>so would have the mother. Unless the calf was fed contaminated feed, which
>it would have gotten in Canada if born there from the PG US cow. ???


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Jan,

It is so interesting that you said what Ingrid said is good enough for you.
If you would have read the article at the URL you would have seen that there
is no indication that it is transferable to offspring. The whole article
was filled with maybes and possibilities and supposition and very little
fact, except, of course, the part where hamsters that had MCD injected in
their brains had it showed up in their tongues.

What was it that P.T Barnum said, "....!?" ;-)

Tom L.L.




"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
disease
> free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their borders to
our
> beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think so,
> bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in with
> Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till I
know,
> and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a singular
> incident (as they are also claiming).
>
> As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention to the
> rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag them.
> Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know which
> one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing where your
> critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate these
> people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to kick
the
> Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> Zone 7a
>
> >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it happened to
us
> >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's on US
> >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment you don't
> >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry was
formed
> >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and the EU
> >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must have one
in
> >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an animal
leaves
> >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags can
only
> >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When the
tag
> >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
history
> >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer. If
there
> >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the system.
No
> >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due to the
> >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this for at
> >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an extension
based
> >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are "working"
on
> >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered it's
> >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even gone so
far
> >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and the US
> >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet. They are
> >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's best
for
> >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the manure
> >pile...
> > Janet
> >
>

[Tom La Bron]

There is something else that needs to be considered in this entire scenario.
This disease, unless you are injecting infected prions in to the animal's
brain, takes a long time to manifest itself and have any outward signs that
anything is going wrong inside the animal. It can be years before you can
even suspect that the animal is sick with this problem.

Tom L.L.
"T" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Good point, which is why I mainly consume poultry, as I find red meat to
be
> very hard on my digestive system IE my case of diverticulitus may have
been
> caused by a staple high in red meats, but also from not eating enough
fibers
> as well.
>
> Tim...
> "john rutz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Ka30P wrote:
> > > Clyde asked
> > >
> > >>> The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of
> > >>> Washington State?<<
> > >>
> > >
> > > Latest word is the cow came from Canada and there will be more. (NOT
> > > to get in the middle of the strains of "Blame Canada" being of
> > > Canadian birth mineself, but that is what we are hearing now)
> > >
> > >
> > > ka30p http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> > an my question is how long have we been eating cows like this without
> > indident till some test tube type named it?
> >
> > John Rutz
> > ( who wont eat anything that doesnt have four legs and horns)
> >
>
>

[T]

I now stand corrected, my apologies..

Tim


"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Jan I've pulled up a couple os stories that ran but the news service
stories
> don't seem to be archived. Here's the links..
>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030703.wcoww0703/BNStor
y/National/
> http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/07/03/madcow_us030703
>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030704/UCOW
WN/TPNational/TopStories
> The last article that I read on this after some snooping around the net
> reports that the Canadian AG dept at the end of their extensive
> investigation could only say with 95% certainty that the cow that tested
> positive was Canadian born. They felt it was highly likely that the cow in
> question came into Canada ( most likely as a fetus)during the mass
> importation of the 25,000 head of pregnant females. It is now known that
> those females were fed feed in the US that contained animal proteins...
> Janet
>
>
> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tim Wrote:
> > >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was
found
> in
> > >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
> doubt...
> > >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> > >
> > Truth be told, I can't remember that, probably because it never got to
our
> > newspapers, ya think? Wonder who held that news up? If it did, it
probably
> > said, the cow got it (BSE) after it entered Canada. There isn't a story
> > on-line regarding that somewhere is there? I'd like to send it to my
local
> > paper. ~ jan
> >
> >
> > >On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:47:46 GMT, "T" > wrote:
> >
> > >Common sense does not seem to be to common.. You would think to insure
> the
> > >integrity of the heard they would leave the tags alone and use another
> tag
> > >along side of it... The problem with not knowing where Daisy came from
is
> > >going to be an intresting case ( like I mentioned at the bottom of the
> > >thread ). Not trying to point fingers, but when there is a removal of
the
> > >takes it defianatly upsets the apple cart, making things a lot harder
to
> > >prove and yes, much more expensive to the tax payer in eithier
country..
> As
> > >far as the US being BSE free, people must remeber the one that was
found
> in
> > >Canada originated from the US which was proven beyond a shadow of
> doubt...
> > >But then again, it doesn't happen here in the US of A does it??
> > >
> > >Tim..
> > >-
> > >"Janet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> I was just reading that Jan... Up here we are getting that our
> Canadian
> > >> AG Dept. is not sure that the tag in question belonged to "Daisy".
The
> > >> information doesn't match. According to the tag she was supposed to
be
> 6
> > >but
> > >> the US AG dept is saying that she was only 4 or 4 /12 (and standing
by
> > >that
> > >> "fact"). DNA testing is now being done to try to verify "Daisy's"
> > >identity.
> > >> Now that leaves a real dilemma doesn't it !?! That would mean at
least
> 2
> > >> more of her calves are out there somewhere if she does prove to be 6!
> > >> Apparently our media is reporting that it's common practice for tags
to
> be
> > >> removed (contrary to our law) when cattle cross the border from
Canada
> > >into
> > >> the US. This is why the tag is in question. American ranchers and
> dairies
> > >> remove them to insert their own herd id. Apparently from what our
media
> is
> > >> reporting that the dairy kept the tags of the imported cattle but
took
> > >them
> > >> out and put them back in when either shipping them back to Canada or
> > >sending
> > >> to slaughter! :oO It's looking like he didn't get the right tag back
in
> > >> possibly... The problem arises in a case like this and when millions
of
> > >> animals a year are moving across the border and back again....
> > >>
> > >> I am of the opinion that the US Cattlemens Assoc doesn't give a
> rat's
> > >ass
> > >> for the little guy with a herd of a couple dozen grazing his back 20.
> They
> > >> have planted themselves firmly in the pockets of the big 3 packers
that
> > >> control everything.... You'd be surprised Jan and how most ranchers
> > >operate.
> > >> Many seem to be firmly planted in running the ranch like
> great-grandpappy
> > >> did. :oO They feel if it was good enough for him it's good enough for
> YOU
> > >to
> > >> eat! Needless to say when one mentions the way beef cattle are moved
to
> > >> several farms often in 2 seperate countries over their short lives
> (less
> > >> than 2 years in most cases) and what that can mean if there is a
> disease
> > >> outbreak they laugh and say "It ain't gonna happen here"..... I guess
> it
> > >did
> > >> huh?
> > >> Janet
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >> > Well Janet, you aren't gonna appreciate the latest news. They're
> > >> > (newspaper) saying since they've (USDA, I assume) figured out this
> > >> > "Holstein" cow came out of Canada that we can still consider the US
> > >> disease
> > >> > free. That importing nations should (trust in us) open their
borders
> to
> > >> our
> > >> > beef. IMO, if I was an import nation I'd be saying, "I don't think
> so,
> > >> > bub!" I want to know where those 73 other cows are (that came in
with
> > >> > Daisy) that they've yet to track down! I'm not eating any beef till
I
> > >> know,
> > >> > and I want them all tested to see if Daisy was (most likely) a
> singular
> > >> > incident (as they are also claiming).
> > >> >
> > >> > As far as head in the manure, I sure hope they're paying attention
to
> > >the
> > >> > rancher who may have to kill all 400 calves because he didn't tag
> them.
> > >> > Seems one of Daisy's offspring is among them, but they don't know
> which
> > >> > one. I can't imagine running a business like that, not knowing
where
> > >your
> > >> > critters come from. Thank goodness our government will compensate
> these
> > >> > people, since it is they who make and decide on the rules. Time to
> kick
> > >> the
> > >> > Cattlemen's ASSociation in the rump roast if you ask me. ~ jan
> > >> > Zone 7a
> > >> >
> > >> > >This is exactly our point up here in Canada Jan.... WHen it
happened
> to
> > >> us
> > >> > >the US AG dept was all over it spouting the "risks". Now that it's
> on
> > >US
> > >> > >soil its nothing to worry about. As for your microchip comment
you
> > >don't
> > >> > >know how true that is!!! Here in Canada a cattle health registry
was
> > >> formed
> > >> > >in response to 2 things.The BSE and H&M outbreak in Britain and
the
> EU
> > >> > >demanded that any country that wanted to export to the EU must
have
> one
> > >> in
> > >> > >place. What this means that in our case here in Canada when an
> animal
> > >> leaves
> > >> > >its farm of origin it must be tagged with a registry tag. The tags
> can
> > >> only
> > >> > >be bought from authorized dealers and they contain a barcode. When
> the
> > >> tag
> > >> > >is put on an animal a stack of paperwork must be filled out with a
> > >> history
> > >> > >on the animal. That tag stays with the animal right to the packer.
> If
> > >> there
> > >> > >is a problem it can quickly and accurately be traced through the
> > >system.
> > >> No
> > >> > >animal can move through an auction or sale without a tag.
> > >> > > Now the US does not have any such program in place. This is due
> to
> > >the
> > >> > >lobbying of the US Cattlemens Assoc. They have been stalling this
> for
> > >at
> > >> > >least 5 years, if not longer. The EU keeps giving the US an
> extension
> > >> based
> > >> > >on the bogus word of the Cattlemens Assoc saying that they are
> > >"working"
> > >> on
> > >> > >it. The Canadian program has offered to go down to the US, offered
> it's
> > >> > >research into tag life, offered it's tracking software... Even
gone
> so
> > >> far
> > >> > >as to offer to set the damn program up from start to finish and
the
> US
> > >> > >Cattlemen have refused! Why?? Stubborness (sp?) is my best bet.
They
> > >are
> > >> > >holding on to a century old way of thinking that they know what's
> best
> > >> for
> > >> > >the industry, all the while burying their collective heads in the
> > >manure
> > >> > >pile...
> > >> > > Janet
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>

[T]

This is part of the case Tom.. Also part of the case is leaving the tags
alone instead of the ranchers removing them from the animal.. I don't think
the cows mind having an extra hole pierced in there ears, heck it can't be
no worse than what I see the kids do them selves today... esshh..

Tim


"Tom La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> There is something else that needs to be considered in this entire
scenario.
> This disease, unless you are injecting infected prions in to the animal's
> brain, takes a long time to manifest itself and have any outward signs
that
> anything is going wrong inside the animal. It can be years before you can
> even suspect that the animal is sick with this problem.
>
> Tom L.L.
> "T" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Good point, which is why I mainly consume poultry, as I find red meat to
> be
> > very hard on my digestive system IE my case of diverticulitus may have
> been
> > caused by a staple high in red meats, but also from not eating enough
> fibers
> > as well.
> >
> > Tim...
> > "john rutz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Ka30P wrote:
> > > > Clyde asked
> > > >
> > > >>> The Question I have is why only one cow in the Middle of
> > > >>> Washington State?<<
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Latest word is the cow came from Canada and there will be more.
(NOT
> > > > to get in the middle of the strains of "Blame Canada" being of
> > > > Canadian birth mineself, but that is what we are hearing now)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ka30p http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
> > > an my question is how long have we been eating cows like this without
> > > indident till some test tube type named it?
> > >
> > > John Rutz
> > > ( who wont eat anything that doesnt have four legs and horns)
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I'm gonna ignore the dig regarding P.T.B. & Suckers. Honestly Tom, you just
can't help yourself from saying something inflamatory, can you? <S>

Regarding what John said though: "
>> > an my question is how long have we been eating cows like this without
>> > indident till some test tube type named it?
>> > John Rutz

I have to agree with Tom, it isn't the test tube types that created the
problem, the incidents were always there, we just didn't know the cause
and/or how to prevent them. Life was better when we were ignorant? Sorry, I
don't think so John.

One does wonder with the short life span of an Angus, just how safe are we?
~ jan

>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:02:49 -0600, "Tom La Bron" > wrote:

>There is something else that needs to be considered in this entire scenario.
>This disease, unless you are injecting infected prions in to the animal's
>brain, takes a long time to manifest itself and have any outward signs that
>anything is going wrong inside the animal. It can be years before you can
>even suspect that the animal is sick with this problem.
>
>Tom L.L.
>> > > ka30p http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html
>> > ( who wont eat anything that doesnt have four legs and horns)
>> >
>>
>>
>

[[email protected]]

well ****... I didnt know they used blood in milk replacer. My farm experience is
summers on my grandparents farm. but I am sure IF they used it they didnt know what
was in it. Kosher laws are looking better and better. Ingrid

"Janet" > wrote:
> I was just reading an article that was stating all the loopholes the animal
>protein ban in feed. Calves are routinely fed milk replacer that is made
>from cattle blood here
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=679&ncid=742&e=1&u=/usatoday/20031229/cm_usatoday/laxrulesandtestingputpubliccattleindustryatrisk
>I didn't even know that was available! We only ever fed out one calf and it
>was with a soy based milk replacer. :o\ Ingrid you are full of all kind of
>interesting tidbits aren't you! :oD
> Janet
>
> wrote in message
...
>> blood can transmit prions, so during birth there is that possibility as
>the placenta
>> separates. however, calves dont nurse long on dairy cows, and they are
>saying this
>> cow was born before the ban. still no evidence it is transmitted in milk.
>Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

they dont have too... but IIRC if they do send it in and it is positive, then they
get something like $200. one reason is so many hunters dropped out of hunting last
year. big economic loss for northern Wisconsin. they interview these hunters on TV
and most of em were saying they werent worried about it. so far I DONT think they
have proved (or announced) that CWD is ACTUALLY transmissible to humans. Ingrid

John Hines > wrote:

wrote:
>
>>I dont know .... the deer hunters in Wisconsin know about the "mad deer" disease in
>>the deer they are shooting and eating.. doesnt stop em at all. Ingrid
>
>Yeah, but don't they have to send the heads in for analysis?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

if they were born, raised and turned into steaks since 1997 (?-since the ban in the
US) very safe from BSE. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>One does wonder with the short life span of an Angus, just how safe are we?
>~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Your right, assuming no cross-contamination of cow-part-infected chicken
feed with beef calf feed. We're down to that very low minimal risk, but why
take any at all when it can so easily be eliminated by not using those
parts? Granted a probably more expensive protein material would have to be
used, but I doubt it would add that much per pound of poultry, etc. ~ jan

>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:02:39 GMT, wrote:

>if they were born, raised and turned into steaks since 1997 (?-since the ban in the
>US) very safe from BSE. Ingrid
>
>~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>>One does wonder with the short life span of an Angus, just how safe are we?
>>~ jan
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ jan

[Anne Lurie]

Has it occurred to anyone else here in the US that *lumber* is apparently
tracked more accurately than food is????

If I buy a 2x4 at Home Depot, it can apparently be tracked throughout its
whole life -- which seems to be quite simple compared to figuring out this
whole mad cow mess.

Anne Lurie
(in the heart of pig country)
Raleigh, NC

[Ka30P]

More Mad Moo News ~~
USDA Bans Risky Cow Parts from Hamburger Production
Reuters*- 1*hour*ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US hamburger derived from special meat trimming
equipment cannot contain any central nervous system material that could spread
mad cow disease, the US Agriculture Department said on Tuesday.


ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[Offbreed]

wrote:

> There is a specific warning about "offal" which includes intestines. intestines also
> includes lymphatic tissues sites of immune system cells called Peyers patches.
> lymphatic tissue is suspect including the spleen, another large site of immune cells.
>
> every time animals take a dump cells of the intestines are scraped off with the crap.

Oh. I'd never heard of the lymph tissue link. Nor that it was also
found in the intestines.

(Now if it was certain people in another news group, I'd not have
the least doubt how they ended up with something that was supposed to
be inside everyone *elses* skull ended up mixed with their dung.)

(Not to mention any names.)

> rabbits are rather inefficient and even my dogs would go for rabbit poop in a big
> way.

Dogs, pigs, bear, lots of animals, any type of dung not from their own
species. I guess deer could lip some up easily, without most people
being in a position to see what they were doing.


> I would be very interested in what the other group has to say about CWD
> transmission in deer.

Jan has not gotten back with any info that I've seen. She is good
people and usually pretty level headed, even if she pays too much
attention to PBS <G>.

I know the game farms have admitted feeding meat/bone meal to
> game animals and losing them over fences.

Thought they did that. There is also a bit of freelance
feeding of wildlife (there is a big industry based on that),
and some of the augmentation feed intended to grow bigger antlers
might have started some of the infections.

> Here in Wisconsin there was a guy up north that was a big hunter, had these huge
> dinner parties with lots of wild game of all kinds. He has died of CJD and I have
> heard so have some of his guests. So eating a lot of wild game it is more likely to
> get an infected animal AND get a big enough dose to cause disease.

Wellll, hampsters are kind of short lived. If I understand how prions
"multiply", one prion surviving to reach a safe area in a human could
eventually corrupt enough other proteins to become a problem. Kuru
had maybe a 40yr incubation?

> Yes, there sure are all kinds of prion diseases. Ingrid

(shudder) As I understand, not all of them are a problem, though?

[Offbreed]

Anne Lurie wrote:

> Has it occurred to anyone else here in the US that *lumber* is apparently
> tracked more accurately than food is????
>
> If I buy a 2x4 at Home Depot, it can apparently be tracked throughout its
> whole life -- which seems to be quite simple compared to figuring out this
> whole mad cow mess.

LOL, I work in the fish processing industry in Alaska. One of my
co-workers made the crack that someone he knew who dealt with
radioactive material had less paperwork shipping and tracking
radium and plutonium than we have shipping halibut, never mind Lox.

If timber is tracked closer than fish, I don't want to have anything
to do with it.

[John Hines]

(Ka30P) wrote:

>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US hamburger derived from special meat trimming
>equipment cannot contain any central nervous system material that could spread
>mad cow disease, the US Agriculture Department said on Tuesday.

Back a few years ago, when problems with the USA beef supply came up, I
asked my butcher about GB quality.

"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in it?"

That simple statement does so much to eliminate the worries. Not to
mention their GB is much tastier than the chain stores.

The other odd thing, in this week's newspaper flyer, they are cheaper
than the big chain supermarket.

[Ka30P]

John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in it?"<<

Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the stuff out
on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.


ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[John Hines]

(Ka30P) wrote:

>
>John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in it?"<<
>
>Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
>since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the stuff out
>on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.

Probably taste better anyway. <G>

Since it is in the 40's today (in chicago, on nye, unheard of), I'm
going out to the grill for some ground sirloin cheeseburgers.

[BenignVanilla]

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in
it?"<<
>
> Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
> since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the
stuff out
> on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.

Why? The meat sources surely could be indentical?

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Ka30P]

BV wrote << Why? The meat sources surely could be indentical? >>

Because of what I read about 'advanced meat recovery'.
When the folks at the store grind the beef they use muscle cuts.
But stuff from processing places may have used
the advanced meat recovery where they use high pressure water to remove meat
from the spinal cords. One test showed 30% of that beef contaminated with
spinal cord tissue. This beef will be put into hamburger, meatballs, taco
filling, bologna, pizza toppings.
Reportedly this will be banned in the future.
I'm having a hard time trusting that the industry is
really as safe as it could have been. Since they said they knew that mad cow
would show up eventually why did they keep downer cattle in the system, use
stuff contaminated with spinal cord tissue and only test 20,000 out of 65
million cattle slaughtered a year? Many countries test 100%. I heard one fellow
say that 100% testing of US cattle would only add 3 cents a pound to the cost.
Fine by me ;-)


ka30p
http://www.geocities.com/watergardeninglabradors/home.html

[John Hines]

"BenignVanilla" > wrote:

>
>"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in
>it?"<<
>>
>> Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
>> since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the
>stuff out
>> on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.
>
>Why? The meat sources surely could be indentical?

It is unlikely that the local butcher would use the machine reclaimed
meat, scraped off the bones, that was (I think) just banned. Or other
questionable meats.

My butcher is the last link in meat production, I find it easier to
trust someone who is actually looking and doing the work.

[Anne Lurie]

BV,

I don't think it's the *source* of the meat that is the problem so much as
the meat's proximity to the animal's nervous system (brain, spinal cord,
etc.)

I read that boneless cuts of beef allegedly are the safest, and
mechanically-separated (or whatever term) meat is the least safe; therefore,
ground meat prepared from a known cut of boneless beef should be a whole lot
safer than the prepackaged tubes of hamburger. (I don't know which grocery
stores grind their own meat, but I'm *positive* that the tube packages are
not prepared on-site.)

I'm debating whether or not to use the oxtails that I have in the freezer
(oxtail makes fantastic soup), as oxtail was specifically mentioned on the
"risky" list along with brains, etc. (oxtails are sold as cross sections of
tail; attempting to cut off the meat would be pointless).

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in
> it?"<<
> >
> > Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
> > since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the
> stuff out
> > on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.
>
> Why? The meat sources surely could be indentical?
>
> BV.
> www.iheartmypond.com
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:39:14 GMT, "Anne Lurie" > wrote:

>safer than the prepackaged tubes of hamburger.

I think you're best better is ground on the property.

I've purchased the tubes for well over a year. Not only are they cheaper,
but I don't find bones or bits of gristle in them, as we have the stuff on
styrofoam. That said, the place the tubes came from just happened to be one
of the places that processed "Daisy".

Nice thing about tubes, they have lot #. I called the company, and found
out without a doubt, there was no Daisy in my tubes. Course I'm a bit more
cautious and will use the tubes I purchased before Daisy arrived, the one
other gets tossed next garbage day. I'm still waiting though to find out
what happened to the other cows Daisy was brought over the border with.
Supposedly 8 or 9 of them are in the same Mapton herd... If I could find
out that none of the others have gone to slaughter I'd feel better about
going back to beef.

Something new in the paper today, something about young cows not developing
MCD? A little confusing, in that they make it sound like it's not a problem
till they develop it? I'm thinking, "if they've been infected, they're
infected, whether they live long enough to show symptoms" or are prions
different than someone with a cold or flu who is spreading germs before
they are even sick? ~ jan

[[email protected]]

just slam that barn door after the cow is out, right?

>More Mad Moo News ~~
>USDA Bans Risky Cow Parts from Hamburger Production
>Reuters*- 1*hour*ago
>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US hamburger derived from special meat trimming
>equipment cannot contain any central nervous system material that could spread
>mad cow disease, the US Agriculture Department said on Tuesday.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

if you got a cuisinart, buy the beef and zap up your own. or use your own grinder....
tastes even BETTER. Ingrid

(Ka30P) wrote:
>John wrote >>"we grind our own, otherwise how do you know what is in it?"<<
>Yesterday I bought ground beef for the first time
>since this happened and bought from the butcher's case instead of the stuff out
>on the shelves and I plan to do that from now on.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

it simply takes time for them to develop symptoms. yes, it is my understanding that
once they been infected they can spread the disease even if they dont have symptoms.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>Something new in the paper today, something about young cows not developing
>MCD? A little confusing, in that they make it sound like it's not a problem
>till they develop it? I'm thinking, "if they've been infected, they're
>infected, whether they live long enough to show symptoms" or are prions
>different than someone with a cold or flu who is spreading germs before
>they are even sick? ~ jan



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

Offbreed > wrote:
>Oh. I'd never heard of the lymph tissue link. Nor that it was also
>found in the intestines.
...... offal is everything in the abdominal cavity. and lymphatic tissue is always
suspect because the role of immune cells is to fight disease so they often engulf
foreign proteins ... altho technically prions are a change in an existing protein.
So the infectious proteins (prions) act more like an enzyme per se than a virus.

>Wellll, hampsters are kind of short lived. If I understand how prions
>"multiply", one prion surviving to reach a safe area in a human could
>eventually corrupt enough other proteins to become a problem. Kuru
>had maybe a 40yr incubation?
...... time from infection to symptoms depends on both how big the infectious dose and
how many times it has infected and passed on in the SAME BREED of animal.
example: cow-->cow--> cow = fast. Cow-->sheep-->cow = slower. it is adaptation.
>
>> Yes, there sure are all kinds of prion diseases. Ingrid
>
>(shudder) As I understand, not all of them are a problem, though?
.... I dont know of any prion diseases that are not a problem. Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

That would be "mad cow is out". ;o) ~ jan

>On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:29:37 GMT, wrote:
>just slam that barn door after the cow is out, right?
>
>>More Mad Moo News ~~
>>USDA Bans Risky Cow Parts from Hamburger Production
>>Reuters*- 1*hour*ago
>>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US hamburger derived from special meat trimming
>>equipment cannot contain any central nervous system material that could spread
>>mad cow disease, the US Agriculture Department said on Tuesday.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Janet]

"They" have the theory that cattle under 30 months old are "clean" and do
not pose a risk. Personally I think their theory is faulty for a couple of
reasons. First as Ingrid just said, once they are infected they can spread
the disease without showing symptoms. One study I read recently likened the
onset of symptoms caused by BSE to the onset of Alzheimers. Not really
noticeable for some time.It's not a disease that extreme symptoms show up
quickly after infection. Secondly they are counting on the fact that the
feed ban is being followed. It's not....
Personally I think it's nothing more than a p.r. stunt... The vast
majority of the cattle that end up on our tables are under 30 months old,
most more like 16-18 months old.
Janet

> wrote in message
...
> it simply takes time for them to develop symptoms. yes, it is my
understanding that
> once they been infected they can spread the disease even if they dont have
symptoms.
> Ingrid
>
> ~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
> >Something new in the paper today, something about young cows not
developing
> >MCD? A little confusing, in that they make it sound like it's not a
problem
> >till they develop it? I'm thinking, "if they've been infected, they're
> >infected, whether they live long enough to show symptoms" or are prions
> >different than someone with a cold or flu who is spreading germs before
> >they are even sick? ~ jan
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Bonnie]

wrote:
> if you got a cuisinart, buy the beef and zap up your own. or use your own grinder....
> tastes even BETTER. Ingrid
>
I have a grinder attachment for my mixer. I grind whatever
I want
the way I want.

--
Bonnie
NJ

[[email protected]]

well I meant spread it if the cow is butchered and eaten. not spread it like a cold.
at least that is current understanding. this CWD of deer doesnt seem to have the
same epidemiology. I dont understand how it is being spread from live animal to live
animal.
their thinking is once the ban went into effect all new cattle are clean. but only
if they havent gotten into feed from cross over feeding.
Ingrid

"Janet" > wrote:

>"They" have the theory that cattle under 30 months old are "clean" and do
>not pose a risk. Personally I think their theory is faulty for a couple of
>reasons. First as Ingrid just said, once they are infected they can spread
>the disease without showing symptoms. One study I read recently likened the
>onset of symptoms caused by BSE to the onset of Alzheimers. Not really
>noticeable for some time.It's not a disease that extreme symptoms show up
>quickly after infection. Secondly they are counting on the fact that the
>feed ban is being followed. It's not....
> Personally I think it's nothing more than a p.r. stunt... The vast
>majority of the cattle that end up on our tables are under 30 months old,
>most more like 16-18 months old.
> Janet


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Offbreed]

wrote:

> ..... time from infection to symptoms depends on both how big the infectious dose and
> how many times it has infected and passed on in the SAME BREED of animal.
> example: cow-->cow--> cow = fast. Cow-->sheep-->cow = slower. it is adaptation.

Yes, thanks. That'd play havoc with lab work. They are, effectivly, a
chemical with a "memory"? Very strange, and disquieting.

> ... I dont know of any prion diseases that are not a problem. Ingrid

I'd read that not all prions would give all animals problems, but,
considering that weird "memory effect" above (shrug).

They have to get taken out of the ecosystem *somehow*, or there'd be
"Mad Tribolite Desease" outbreaks after dust storms off fossil beds.