Too cold for bubblers?

[Nicole Thompson]

I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
below zero.

My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here when we
moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in survived
the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was already
frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and well
in the spring.

We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for the
winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working pretty
well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water surrounding
the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small one,
but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or something -
since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air going
into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).

So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
*sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought of
adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am I
being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
anything last year?

Thanks,
Nicole

[John Bachman]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:01:23 -0500, "Nicole Thompson"
> wrote:

>I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
>below zero.
>
>My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here when we
>moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in survived
>the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was already
>frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and well
>in the spring.
>
>We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for the
>winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working pretty
>well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water surrounding
>the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small one,
>but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or something -
>since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air going
>into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
>
>So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
>just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
>*sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought of
>adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
>we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am I
>being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
>anything last year?
>

If the pond is frozen solid then you may as well turn the bubbler off
as it is doing no good. The goldfish is also dead.

It seems to me that an 18-inch deep above ground pond is going to
freeze in any normal winter without a heater. So, heat it, bring your
fish inside or buy new fish every year.

JMHO

John

[Rich]

I live here too, and I run a pump 24 7 and it keeps a hole in the top of the
pond. The birds were drinking out of it yesterday.

Rich


"Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
> below zero.
>
> My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here when
we
> moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in survived
> the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
already
> frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and
well
> in the spring.
>
> We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for
the
> winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
pretty
> well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water surrounding
> the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small one,
> but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or something -
> since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air going
> into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
>
> So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
> just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
> *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought of
> adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
> we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am I
> being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
> anything last year?
>
> Thanks,
> Nicole
>
>

[John Hines]

"Nicole Thompson" > wrote:

>So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
>just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
>*sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought of
>adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
>we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am I
>being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
>anything last year?

Take a watering can full of hot tap water, and see if you can open up a
hole for the bubbler. In cold years (Chicago) I've had to do it on a
daily (or twice a day) basis.

Failing that, I ended up with a stock tank heater, but with hot water,
you can do something now.

If you can keep water open, your pond will be most popular with the
local wildlife, a very good thing.

You might have one or two survivors next spring, don't give up hope.

[Gale Pearce]

Hi Nicole - your airstones shouldn't be more than 2-3" deep in your pond, so
you get a fizzing effect on the surface (makes it harder for water to
freeze) - saying that, I still check mine daily as when it is really cold (0
to 20 F) mine still makes a small "ice dome" over the open hole which I
break up by tapping on it with a broom handle (it's very thin if you check
it daily or you can use hot water - DO NOT pound on the ice - you will shock
or kill your fish - use a cordless drill with a spade bit instead if the ice
is too thick
Gale :~)
"Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
> below zero.
>
> My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here when
we
> moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in survived
> the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
already
> frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and
well
> in the spring.
>
> We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for
the
> winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
pretty
> well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water surrounding
> the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small one,
> but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or something -
> since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air going
> into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
>
> So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
> just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
> *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought of
> adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
> we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am I
> being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
> anything last year?
>
> Thanks,
> Nicole
>
>

[Nicole Thompson]

Really? The holes are completely frozen over in mine. And believe me, the
bubbler stones I bought are big and created a big area that wasn't frozen
for a long time....wonder what the difference is?

Nicole


"Rich" > wrote in message
...
> I live here too, and I run a pump 24 7 and it keeps a hole in the top of
the
> pond. The birds were drinking out of it yesterday.
>
> Rich
>
>
> "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
> > below zero.
> >
> > My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here
when
> we
> > moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in
survived
> > the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
> already
> > frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and
> well
> > in the spring.
> >
> > We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for
> the
> > winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
> pretty
> > well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
surrounding
> > the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small
one,
> > but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or
something -
> > since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air
going
> > into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> >
> > So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather
or
> > just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
> > *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought
of
> > adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
> > we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am
I
> > being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
> > anything last year?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nicole
> >
> >
>
>

[Nicole Thompson]

Well, I'm not writing off my fish just yet - as I said the one that was in
there survived last winter unassisted and the temps were just as cold here
and I'm certain the entire pond was frozen - almost *had* to be.....and
somehow it survived.....<<keeping fingers crossed - and **seriously**
considering a heater>>

Nicole

"John Bachman" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:01:23 -0500, "Nicole Thompson"
> > wrote:
>
> >I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
> >below zero.
> >
> >My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here when
we
> >moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in survived
> >the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
already
> >frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and
well
> >in the spring.
> >
> >We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for
the
> >winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
pretty
> >well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
surrounding
> >the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small
one,
> >but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or something -
> >since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air going
> >into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> >
> >So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather or
> >just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
> >*sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought
of
> >adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
> >we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am
I
> >being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
> >anything last year?
> >
>
> If the pond is frozen solid then you may as well turn the bubbler off
> as it is doing no good. The goldfish is also dead.
>
> It seems to me that an 18-inch deep above ground pond is going to
> freeze in any normal winter without a heater. So, heat it, bring your
> fish inside or buy new fish every year.
>
> JMHO
>
> John
>
>

[Nicole Thompson]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh <<lightbulb>>
I tied my bubbler stones to bricks on the *bottom*.......that must be the
difference.......

How do you keep them that shallow?

Nicole

"Gale Pearce" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Nicole - your airstones shouldn't be more than 2-3" deep in your pond,
so
> you get a fizzing effect on the surface (makes it harder for water to
> freeze) - saying that, I still check mine daily as when it is really cold
(0
> to 20 F) mine still makes a small "ice dome" over the open hole which I
> break up by tapping on it with a broom handle (it's very thin if you check
> it daily or you can use hot water - DO NOT pound on the ice - you will
shock
> or kill your fish - use a cordless drill with a spade bit instead if the
ice
> is too thick
> Gale :~)
> "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps are
> > below zero.
> >
> > My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here
when
> we
> > moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in
survived
> > the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
> already
> > frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive and
> well
> > in the spring.
> >
> > We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and for
> the
> > winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
> pretty
> > well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
surrounding
> > the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small
one,
> > but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or
something -
> > since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air
going
> > into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> >
> > So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather
or
> > just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump doesn't
> > *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I thought
of
> > adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or not -
> > we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep. Am
I
> > being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive w/out
> > anything last year?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nicole
> >
> >
>
>

[Gale Pearce]

I have a steel pipe that lays across my pond and my airline is taped along
it to ~ half way across pond (~3-4') , then drops into pond so airstone is
~3" below surface (the airline has a slight, constant downhill slope so
moisture won't collect in the airline during thawing periods and then freeze
when it gets colder again (had that happen)
Gale :~)
"Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh <<lightbulb>>
> I tied my bubbler stones to bricks on the *bottom*.......that must be the
> difference.......
>
> How do you keep them that shallow?
>
> Nicole
>
> "Gale Pearce" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Nicole - your airstones shouldn't be more than 2-3" deep in your
pond,
> so
> > you get a fizzing effect on the surface (makes it harder for water to
> > freeze) - saying that, I still check mine daily as when it is really
cold
> (0
> > to 20 F) mine still makes a small "ice dome" over the open hole which I
> > break up by tapping on it with a broom handle (it's very thin if you
check
> > it daily or you can use hot water - DO NOT pound on the ice - you will
> shock
> > or kill your fish - use a cordless drill with a spade bit instead if the
> ice
> > is too thick
> > Gale :~)
> > "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps
are
> > > below zero.
> > >
> > > My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here
> when
> > we
> > > moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in
> survived
> > > the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
> > already
> > > frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive
and
> > well
> > > in the spring.
> > >
> > > We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and
for
> > the
> > > winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
> > pretty
> > > well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
> surrounding
> > > the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small
> one,
> > > but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or
> something -
> > > since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air
> going
> > > into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> > >
> > > So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather
> or
> > > just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump
doesn't
> > > *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I
thought
> of
> > > adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or
not -
> > > we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep.
Am
> I
> > > being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive
w/out
> > > anything last year?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[DavidEberbach]

I gave up that battle after last winter, going out and trying to reopen my
frozen bubbler hole, and still losing my fish. This year I put up a hoop house
(just 6 mil plastic over pvc) and it has worked like a charm. I've stuck my
head under the plastic a few times and it is all clear of ice. I convinced
that this is way to go. I'm in Iowa, zone 5, and my pond is actually shadowed
by the neighbors house, so I'm not getting the full greenhouse benefit, yet it
is working great. This is a lot less cost and worry than a heater.

Dave

[Nedra]

Thanks for the post, Dave! So your house is shaded all winter long
too?! I am definitely going to look into tenting my pond. It is on
the north side of the house and gets no sun from October/November
until March. I thought the shade would make a hoop house a non-
issue. The poor koi all huddled together on the bottom may be in
for a shocker. It will be spring before I get anything done... just
planning will be a morale booster for me. Thanks again.

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"DavidEberbach" > wrote in message
...
> I gave up that battle after last winter, going out and trying to reopen my
> frozen bubbler hole, and still losing my fish. This year I put up a hoop
house
> (just 6 mil plastic over pvc) and it has worked like a charm. I've stuck
my
> head under the plastic a few times and it is all clear of ice. I
convinced
> that this is way to go. I'm in Iowa, zone 5, and my pond is actually
shadowed
> by the neighbors house, so I'm not getting the full greenhouse benefit,
yet it
> is working great. This is a lot less cost and worry than a heater.
>
> Dave

[Anne Lurie]

Nicole,

My guess is that the difference is that your pond is above ground, made of
cinderblock vs. Rich's which is (I assume) in-ground and most likely deeper
than 18".

Those cinderblocks are going to have temperature swings much greater than
the ground surrounding the typical water garden.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
...
> Really? The holes are completely frozen over in mine. And believe me, the
> bubbler stones I bought are big and created a big area that wasn't frozen
> for a long time....wonder what the difference is?
>
> Nicole
>
>
> "Rich" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I live here too, and I run a pump 24 7 and it keeps a hole in the top of
> the
> > pond. The birds were drinking out of it yesterday.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps
are
> > > below zero.
> > >
> > > My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here
> when
> > we
> > > moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in
> survived
> > > the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
> > already
> > > frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive
and
> > well
> > > in the spring.
> > >
> > > We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and
for
> > the
> > > winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
> > pretty
> > > well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
> surrounding
> > > the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap small
> one,
> > > but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or
> something -
> > > since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air
> going
> > > into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> > >
> > > So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer weather
> or
> > > just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump
doesn't
> > > *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I
thought
> of
> > > adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or
not -
> > > we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18" deep.
Am
> I
> > > being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive
w/out
> > > anything last year?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Adrian J. Bauer]

Do you have pics? I'm in Indiana zone 5 and have a nice electricity bill
from my pond heater. I'm sure my goldfish would be very happy!

Thanks,
Adrian
"DavidEberbach" > wrote in message
...
> I gave up that battle after last winter, going out and trying to reopen my
> frozen bubbler hole, and still losing my fish. This year I put up a hoop
house
> (just 6 mil plastic over pvc) and it has worked like a charm. I've stuck
my
> head under the plastic a few times and it is all clear of ice. I
convinced
> that this is way to go. I'm in Iowa, zone 5, and my pond is actually
shadowed
> by the neighbors house, so I'm not getting the full greenhouse benefit,
yet it
> is working great. This is a lot less cost and worry than a heater.
>
> Dave

[Adrian J. Bauer]

I built a cinder block pond when I lived in an apartment with a small patio.
I did insulate mine (under the liner) with those styrofoam sheets that
builders use on houses. Never had a problem with temps getting too low. I
did use one of those floating deicers. I wish i could find a digital
picture of the pond! Sometimes I miss that small simple pond.

Adrian
"Anne Lurie" > wrote in message
r.com...
> Nicole,
>
> My guess is that the difference is that your pond is above ground, made of
> cinderblock vs. Rich's which is (I assume) in-ground and most likely
deeper
> than 18".
>
> Those cinderblocks are going to have temperature swings much greater than
> the ground surrounding the typical water garden.
>
> Anne Lurie
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Really? The holes are completely frozen over in mine. And believe me,
the
> > bubbler stones I bought are big and created a big area that wasn't
frozen
> > for a long time....wonder what the difference is?
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> >
> > "Rich" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I live here too, and I run a pump 24 7 and it keeps a hole in the top
of
> > the
> > > pond. The birds were drinking out of it yesterday.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nicole Thompson" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I live in Central PA - current temp - 5 degrees F - nighttime temps
> are
> > > > below zero.
> > > >
> > > > My question is, I have a *raised* pond made of cinderblock (was here
> > when
> > > we
> > > > moved in) and the single goldfish that was here when we moved in
> > survived
> > > > the winter last year just fine w/out any "assistance" - the pond was
> > > already
> > > > frozen when we moved in, so we were delighted when we saw him alive
> and
> > > well
> > > > in the spring.
> > > >
> > > > We added some friends (I've posted here in the past about that) and
> for
> > > the
> > > > winter, I bought bubbler stones - two long ones - which were working
> > > pretty
> > > > well until this really cold snap. My concern is that the water
> > surrounding
> > > > the bubblers will freeze and burn up the pump (which is a cheap
small
> > one,
> > > > but works well) - and my worst fear is it'll catch on fire or
> > something -
> > > > since I have the pump inside the house (figuring the warm house air
> > going
> > > > into the bubblers wouldn't be a bad thing).
> > > >
> > > > So, my question is, should I unplug it altogether until warmer
weather
> > or
> > > > just let it keep going? The pond looks frozen solid and the pump
> doesn't
> > > > *sound* much louder than it did......but I'm still concerned. I
> thought
> > of
> > > > adding a de-icer, but I have no idea if that would really help or
> not -
> > > > we're talking about a 10' x 10' (roughly) water area that's 18"
deep.
> Am
> > I
> > > > being overly-concerned about the fish since the one *did* survive
> w/out
> > > > anything last year?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Nicole
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>