Salt in a Nutshell

[Lee B.]

For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or need
to figure out how much to add:

Salt in a Nutshell



1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity

1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%

(These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the numbers,
it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) = 454
grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams of
water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)



If there is no salt reading in the pond:

# salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water

Example:

25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.



If there is an existing salt reading:

R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)

# salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water

Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the
number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):

50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons



To get # salt needed with known gallons:

(desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt

Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):

..2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)



Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract R1
from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but
the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is .15
(not .2)



I hope this helps.



Lee

[Ken Russell]

One of your numbers is off by a factor of 10.

If 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
Then this CANNOT be correct;
1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%


Ken Russell

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
| For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
need
| to figure out how much to add:
|
| Salt in a Nutshell
|
|
|
| 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
|
| 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
|
| (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
numbers,
| it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) =
454
| grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams
of
| water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
|
|
|
| If there is no salt reading in the pond:
|
| # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
|
| Example:
|
| 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
|
|
|
| If there is an existing salt reading:
|
| R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
|
| # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
|
| Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the
| number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
|
| 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
|
|
|
| To get # salt needed with known gallons:
|
| (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
|
| Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
|
| .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
|
|
|
| Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract
R1
| from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but
| the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is
..15
| (not .2)
|
|
|
| I hope this helps.
|
|
|
| Lee
|
|


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[Lee B.]

The numbers are kinda rounded to keep it simple. By the time you extrapolate
the decimal from 1 gallon to 100 gallons, it goes up just a little bit.
Read a bit further down in the message and the conversion factors are
shown/proved (all in metric). I got this info from a trusted source who's
much better at math than I am: it's a "cheat sheet" that allows you to do
the math without having to access web-based calculators.

Lee

"Ken Russell" > wrote in message
u...
> One of your numbers is off by a factor of 10.
>
> If 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
> Then this CANNOT be correct;
> 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
>
>
> Ken Russell
>
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> | For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
> need
> | to figure out how much to add:
> |
> | Salt in a Nutshell
> |
> |
> |
> | 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
> |
> | 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
> |
> | (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
> numbers,
> | it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) =
> 454
> | grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500
grams
> of
> | water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
> |
> |
> |
> | If there is no salt reading in the pond:
> |
> | # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
> |
> | Example:
> |
> | 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
> |
> |
> |
> | If there is an existing salt reading:
> |
> | R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
> |
> | # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
> |
> | Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so
the
> | number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
> |
> | 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
> |
> |
> |
> | To get # salt needed with known gallons:
> |
> | (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
> |
> | Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
> |
> | .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
> |
> |
> |
> | Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract
> R1
> | from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2,
but
> | the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is
> .15
> | (not .2)
> |
> |
> |
> | I hope this helps.
> |
> |
> |
> | Lee
> |
> |
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 27/01/2004
>
>

[Ken Russell]

Hi Lee,

Notwithstanding the impeccable source, something has suffered in the
translation :-(

I think you will find that the second statement should read;
1 lb of salt in 100 gallons of water = 0.012%

--
Ken Russell

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
| The numbers are kinda rounded to keep it simple. By the time you
extrapolate
| the decimal from 1 gallon to 100 gallons, it goes up just a little bit.
| Read a bit further down in the message and the conversion factors are
| shown/proved (all in metric). I got this info from a trusted source who's
| much better at math than I am: it's a "cheat sheet" that allows you to do
| the math without having to access web-based calculators.
|
| Lee
|
| "Ken Russell" > wrote in message
| u...
| > One of your numbers is off by a factor of 10.
| >
| > If 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
| > Then this CANNOT be correct;
| > 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
| >
| >
| > Ken Russell
| >
| > "Lee B." > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
| > need
| > | to figure out how much to add:
| > |
| > | Salt in a Nutshell
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
| > |
| > | 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
| > |
| > | (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
| > numbers,
| > | it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric)
=
| > 454
| > | grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500
| grams
| > of
| > | water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | If there is no salt reading in the pond:
| > |
| > | # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
| > |
| > | Example:
| > |
| > | 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | If there is an existing salt reading:
| > |
| > | R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
| > |
| > | # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
| > |
| > | Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so
| the
| > | number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
| > |
| > | 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | To get # salt needed with known gallons:
| > |
| > | (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
| > |
| > | Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
| > |
| > | .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to
subtract
| > R1
| > | from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2,
| but
| > | the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for
is
| > .15
| > | (not .2)
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | I hope this helps.
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | Lee
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
| > ---
| > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
| > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
| > Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 27/01/2004
| >
| >
|
|


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 27/01/2004

You'd better check those calculations again. 1 lb salt in 1 gallon of water
is 10.71% salinity!!!!

Dean Markley

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
need
> to figure out how much to add:
>
> Salt in a Nutshell
>
>
>
> 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
>
> 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
>
> (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
numbers,
> it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) =
454
> grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams
of
> water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
>
>
>
> If there is no salt reading in the pond:
>
> # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
>
> Example:
>
> 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
>
>
>
> If there is an existing salt reading:
>
> R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
>
> # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
>
> Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the
> number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
>
> 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
>
>
>
> To get # salt needed with known gallons:
>
> (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
>
> Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
>
> .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
>
>
>
> Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract
R1
> from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but
> the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is
..15
> (not .2)
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>

[Ken Russell]

The amount of salt dissolved in water is termed the salinity and is measured
either as a per cent, in parts-per-thousand (ppt), or in parts-per-million
(ppm) (where 10 ppt = 1% = 10000 ppm). The more common parts-per-thousand
measurement is the weight of the salt in pounds per thousand pounds of water
(about 125 gallons). Pond-keepers often talk about the pounds of salt per
hundred gallons of water. Since 100 gallons of pure water weighs about 800
pounds, one pound of salt per hundred gallons equates to a salinity of 1.25
ppt (0.125% or 1250 ppm). (1 ppt = 0.8 pounds per hundred gallons)

--
Ken Russell

> wrote in message
k.net...
| You'd better check those calculations again. 1 lb salt in 1 gallon of
water
| is 10.71% salinity!!!!
|
| Dean Markley
|
| "Lee B." > wrote in message
| ...
| > For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
| need
| > to figure out how much to add:
| >
| > Salt in a Nutshell
| >
| >
| >
| > 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
| >
| > 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
| >
| > (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
| numbers,
| > it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) =
| 454
| > grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500
grams
| of
| > water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
| >
| >
| >
| > If there is no salt reading in the pond:
| >
| > # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
| >
| > Example:
| >
| > 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
| >
| >
| >
| > If there is an existing salt reading:
| >
| > R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
| >
| > # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
| >
| > Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so
the
| > number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
| >
| > 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
| >
| >
| >
| > To get # salt needed with known gallons:
| >
| > (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
| >
| > Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
| >
| > .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
| >
| >
| >
| > Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract
| R1
| > from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2,
but
| > the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is
| .15
| > (not .2)
| >
| >
| >
| > I hope this helps.
| >
| >
| >
| > Lee
| >
| >
|
|


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Nedra]

I am so severely math challenged! You all are brilliant for even
trying to explain all this to such as me. Just a comment ....(sigh)

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Ken Russell" > wrote in message
...
> The amount of salt dissolved in water is termed the salinity and is
measured
> either as a per cent, in parts-per-thousand (ppt), or in parts-per-million
> (ppm) (where 10 ppt = 1% = 10000 ppm). The more common parts-per-thousand
> measurement is the weight of the salt in pounds per thousand pounds of
water
> (about 125 gallons). Pond-keepers often talk about the pounds of salt per
> hundred gallons of water. Since 100 gallons of pure water weighs about 800
> pounds, one pound of salt per hundred gallons equates to a salinity of
1.25
> ppt (0.125% or 1250 ppm). (1 ppt = 0.8 pounds per hundred gallons)
>
> --
> Ken Russell
>
> > wrote in message
> k.net...
> | You'd better check those calculations again. 1 lb salt in 1 gallon of
> water
> | is 10.71% salinity!!!!
> |
> | Dean Markley
> |
> | "Lee B." > wrote in message
> | ...
> | > For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
> | need
> | > to figure out how much to add:
> | >
> | > Salt in a Nutshell
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
> | >
> | > 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
> | >
> | > (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
> | numbers,
> | > it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric)
=
> | 454
> | > grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500
> grams
> | of
> | > water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > If there is no salt reading in the pond:
> | >
> | > # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
> | >
> | > Example:
> | >
> | > 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > If there is an existing salt reading:
> | >
> | > R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
> | >
> | > # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
> | >
> | > Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so
> the
> | > number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
> | >
> | > 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > To get # salt needed with known gallons:
> | >
> | > (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
> | >
> | > Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
> | >
> | > .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to
subtract
> | R1
> | > from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2,
> but
> | > the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for
is
> | .15
> | > (not .2)
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > I hope this helps.
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > Lee
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.573 / Virus Database: 363 - Release Date: 28/01/2004
>
>

[[email protected]]

% is calculated by grams per 100 ml.
0.9 lbs of salt per 100 gallons comes out to 0.1% salt
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Judi9000]

This is really basic, but can someone tell me how many CUPS of salt to add to a
300 gal pond?

[[email protected]]

roughly...
1/2 cup salt in 1 gallon = 3%, the concentration for a dip.
1/2 cup in 10 gallons = 0.3%
1/2 cup in 30 gallons = 0.1%
10 x 1/2 cup or 5 cups of the course rock salt used in water softeners will give you
about 0.1%
Ingrid

(Judi9000) wrote:

>This is really basic, but can someone tell me how many CUPS of salt to add to a
>300 gal pond?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Judi9000]

>5 cups of the course rock salt used in water softeners will give you
>about 0.1%
>Ingrid

Thanks!!! Judi

[BenignVanilla]

"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On 02 Feb 2004 01:15:22 GMT, (Judi9000) wrote:
>
> >This is really basic, but can someone tell me how many CUPS of salt to
add to a
> >300 gal pond?
<snip>

I am just going to toss my biased 2 cents in. You should add NONE unless you
are treating some condition and even then, you should know what you are
dealing with before you dose. I know penicillin kills a lot of stuff but I
don't take it every day just in case. IMHO, salting your pond is the same
concept.

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[BenignVanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> roughly...
> 1/2 cup salt in 1 gallon = 3%, the concentration for a dip.
> 1/2 cup in 10 gallons = 0.3%
> 1/2 cup in 30 gallons = 0.1%
> 10 x 1/2 cup or 5 cups of the course rock salt used in water softeners
will give you
> about 0.1%
<snip>

Don't you mean a minimum of 0.1%? Does the OP know the current salinity of
the water?

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[[email protected]]

she wasnt asking that. she was asking how many cups for 0.1%. and it is very
unlikely she already got such a high level that it would be toxic. I recommend
people use 0.05% overwinter and increase it in spring, then let it dilute out during
the year unless there are really heavy rains.
there is no down side to salt as a prevention and a stimulant to slime coat. even in
their padded pond, my fish scrape against the hanging lilly pots and this and that
when they come up in a feeding frenzy.
salt isnt anything like antibiotics. Ingrid

"BenignVanilla" > wrote:
> wrote in message
...
>> roughly...
>> 1/2 cup salt in 1 gallon = 3%, the concentration for a dip.
>> 1/2 cup in 10 gallons = 0.3%
>> 1/2 cup in 30 gallons = 0.1%
>> 10 x 1/2 cup or 5 cups of the course rock salt used in water softeners
>will give you
>> about 0.1%
><snip>
>
>Don't you mean a minimum of 0.1%? Does the OP know the current salinity of
>the water?
>
>BV.
>www.iheartmypond.com
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Hal,

First point, the USDA said nothing of recommending anything in this article.
Chemicals and meds used in Aquaculture are regulated by the EPA and FDA, and
the reason for this is because the article that you are citing deals with
food fish.

Second point. 200 to 500ppm is equal to .02 to 05% salt in the water. This
is next to nothing and there is not a device on the market that can read
that low accurately with out spending a big chuck of money. In fact most
devices read in parts per ton (ppt) and one ppt is equal 1000ppm. In
addition, most people have more than that in Total Dissolved Salts (TDS) in
their water systems all ready. Here in Pawnee TDS averages about 410ppm, in
Stillwater it is 4,750ppm and for the most part TDS are going to affect any
salt meter you are using.

Also the remark you made about nitrite is incorrect somewhat, because it is
not the salt that helps protect against nitrite poisoning it is the chloride
in the salt that does this because it competes for the absorption position
at the gills of the fish as they are taking up oxygen from the water, plus
the chloride in the has to be 20:1 higher to the nitrite and must be
adjusted continually as the nitrite increases in concentration. Also,
Calcium chloride could be used instead of Sodium Chloride to achieve this
concentration. One level of Chloride in the water is not going to protect
as the level of nitrite increases. The chloride level must be adjust all
the time.

Also I would like to point out that in the place that suggests an indefinite
concentration of salt at the level of 1,000-2,000ppm (0.1 - 0.2%) is for
"hauling tanks." This is when the supplier is transporting 450 fish in a
500gallong tank. The indefinite time they are talking about deals with the
duration of time the fish are in the transport tank going from point A to
point B. During the hauling period a very high level of air is being pumped
into the tank to supply all the oxygen the high stocking level and to help
off set the amount of toxic waste that is building up in the tank during
transport.

The third point is that this article is for aquaculture facilities that are
dealing with pounds of fish per gallon of water not one Goldfish per 10
gallons of water. There is no correlation between this article and your
garden pond where you are keeping one KOI per 100 gallons of water.

It has nothing to do with back yard ponds.

Oh, and by the BV remark is supported by research now, for now there are
parasites and bacteria that live better in salter environments requiring
higher levels to kill them because of the prophylactic use of salt in fish
environments.

HTH

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------
"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:39:14 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
> > wrote:
>
> >I am just going to toss my biased 2 cents in. You should add NONE unless
you
> >are treating some condition and even then, you should know what you are
> >dealing with before you dose. I know penicillin kills a lot of stuff but
I
> >don't take it every day just in case. IMHO, salting your pond is the same
> >concept.
>
> USDA recommends 200 to 500 ppm as an indefinite (permanent) salinity.
> It relieves osmotic stress and prevents nitrite toxicity. This level
> does not directly treat diseases or parasites, but it may allow fish to
> more easily fight off and prevent them. This level is 2-2/3 to 6-2/3
> ounces per 100 gallons. For 800 gallons, it would be 1.3 to 3.4 pounds.
> As you can see, the precise level isn't important, and these levels are
> far below those that affect plants. Reference: Table 3 in USDA
> "Calculating Treatments for Ponds"
> http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/aquanic/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/410fs.pdf
> n Rod
>
> Reference is probably old and out of date, but the idea is still alive
> in some ponders.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal

[REBEL JOE]

OK now I'm confussed. I started useing salt because most here said it
was best. Now some say not to=BF=BF=BF=BF Should I or Not??=BF=BF So far
my fish are doing fine. Should I keep it up or not.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

[[email protected]]

yes. it is best to have that low level of salt in the pond. now some people here
never use it and do fine, but some people here have a natural level of salinity in
their water like those live near the coasts or those live where the water flows thru
salt deposits. Brett who breeds and raises koi has natural salt in the water he
pumps into his ponds. Even so, he adds considerable salt as a preventative. I tend
to follow the advice given by people who make their living from fish rather than
hobbiest who have perfected their fish keeping abilities on a few tanks maybe with
water a whole lot better than I have coming outta the tap. Ingrid

(REBEL JOE) wrote:

>OK now I'm confussed. I started useing salt because most here said it
>was best. Now some say not to¿¿¿¿ Should I or Not??¿¿ So far
>my fish are doing fine. Should I keep it up or not.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Rebel Joe,

Salt is one of those thinks that has turned into an urban legend. The only
thing that people use as references for using salt is Aquaculture research
that is dealing with high stocking loads (as high as one pound of fish per
gallon of water) for fish that are kept only for a short period of time
before they are sent off to market. If you read my response to Hal you see
what I mean.

Ingrid response to you about Brett farm is a little misleading because
Brett's farm are on a salt plain and his water is salty all the time. He
has no choice. He can't get fresh water except for the local municipality
at a high cost when you consider the gallonage of his ponds. He has several
ponds in the 100,000 gallon range.

The thing you have to remember that salt is an irritate to fish which is why
the produce more mucus with the presence of salt being in the water. I also
stated in my message to Hal why the very low percentages of salt in the
water is hardly effective for protecting against nitrite poisoning. If you
concentrate on clean clear water you will be much better off and so will be
your fish. I do not use salt, except as a med when it warrants it for
certain diseases, but I have not had a sick fish in 6 years, so I don't even
need it for that reason. I always say that three things for keep happy
health fish is: 1. Clean water, 2. Clear Water, and last but not least, 3.
Clean water. Keeping your water chemistry in line keeping the water clean
and clear is a much better use of your time, if you do this you will not
have trouble with your fish getting sick. The other thing is that salt is
hard to keep track of unless you are very methodical in your administration
of it to your pond or tanks. Although the salt kits do read salt ppm you
have to be careful of their accuracy and unless you spend a lot of money
very few kits or device will effectively read salinity level accurately in
freshwater.

I also mentioned in message to Hal you have to know what the TDS are in your
own water system. Some are low and some are high. When I lived in San
Diego and Los Angeles the TDS were in the 15,000+ range. In the TDS levels
are sodium chloride and calcium chloride and a bunch of other salts.
Depending where you live you Sodium chloride level may already be in place.

After 40 years of growing, breeding and selling Goldfish it is better to
keep the salt on your dinner table for French fries and corn on the cob and
keep it out of your pond. It is not needed in your pond if you take care of
your water.

HTH and have a good day.

If you have any other questions you can write to me privately if you want to
get more information. I don't do this for a living, but it certainly more
than a hobby done for fun.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
"REBEL JOE" > wrote in message
...
OK now I'm confussed. I started useing salt because most here said it
was best. Now some say not to¿¿¿¿ Should I or Not??¿¿ So far
my fish are doing fine. Should I keep it up or not.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

[[email protected]]

yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively
used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The
kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the
stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water
to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up
than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides
a good buffer.
You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the
slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!!
I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks
than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture
people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for
ponds and fish tanks.
I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt
isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using
an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a
couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish
were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt
resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the
mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a
bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water.
wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that surprising.
Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all
that necessary either. Ingrid

Hal > wrote:
>I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the
>calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread
>it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a
>pond.
>I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt
>concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime
>coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a
>confined puddle. Is there another reason?
>Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to
>me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause
>such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll
>have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone
>in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of
>about .04% salt in the water.
>Hal



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Ingrid,

Dr. Ruth Floyd has never suggested salt in back yard ponds or fish tanks. It
would be nice if you stopped putting words in to other peoples mouths.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more
extensively
> used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish
are in. The
> kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont
get the
> stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium
in the water
> to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring
calcium up
> than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and
magnesium, provides
> a good buffer.
> You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in
stimulating the
> slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with
water changes!!
> I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to
hauling tanks
> than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the
aquaculture
> people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level
salt for
> ponds and fish tanks.
> I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not
using salt
> isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying
not using
> an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again.
Maybe in a
> couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the
fish. My fish
> were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come"
with salt
> resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all.
In the
> mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems
because I add a
> bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water.
> wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that su
rprising.
> Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not
really all
> that necessary either. Ingrid
>
> Hal > wrote:
> >I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the
> >calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread
> >it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a
> >pond.
> >I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt
> >concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime
> >coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a
> >confined puddle. Is there another reason?
> >Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to
> >me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause
> >such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll
> >have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone
> >in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of
> >about .04% salt in the water.
> >Hal
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Hal,

Ingrid is a microbiologist, but she has never done anything or published any
thing that has to do with microbiology and goldfish. She has only been
keeping Goldfish for about 8 years.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------
"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:43:43 GMT, wrote:
>
> >I am a microbiologist.
>
> Yes Maam! :)
> I know who you are and I am familiar with Pure Gold and I appreciate the
> valued advice you share with all of us here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal

[Lee B.]

OK, for all those who took exception to my math, I had a typo: it's 1 lb. of
salt in *12* gallons of water = 1% salinity. I've corrected my data sheet.
The sample math calculations ARE, however, correct.

Sorry for the delay in responding: my husband was back in the hospital again
and I was otherwise occupied.

Lee

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or
need
> to figure out how much to add:
>
> Salt in a Nutshell
>
>
>
> 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity
>
> 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12%
>
> (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the
numbers,
> it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) =
454
> grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams
of
> water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%)
>
>
>
> If there is no salt reading in the pond:
>
> # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water
>
> Example:
>
> 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal.
>
>
>
> If there is an existing salt reading:
>
> R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant)
>
> # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water
>
> Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the
> number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15):
>
> 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons
>
>
>
> To get # salt needed with known gallons:
>
> (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt
>
> Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond):
>
> .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!)
>
>
>
> Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract
R1
> from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but
> the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is
..15
> (not .2)
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>

[Lee B.]

Regarding the use or non-use of salt in your pond, there are indications
that the use of salt will help with osmotic issues of fish that are
stressed. Koi have a salt content of 9 PPT, same as humans. We need salt or
we will die. Koi need certain levels also - HOWEVER, the *normal* ambient
background salt in most water supplies is sufficient for their needs. At
least here in Central Florida. Don't know about the rest of you folks.

Not into starting verbal wars. Salt is a method of calculating the size of
your pond if you did not meter it when you filled it. Or if you had problems
with your filtration and had to redo it all. Or for any number of reasons.
It's relatively benign (except to some plants), and is reduced through water
changes until you're back to your basic starting point with no ill effects.
Therefore, in addition to its ( I know,debatable!) medicinal benefits, it
can also be used as a tool. It's far more important to know your total
volume - pond, piping, filters, any other place you have water - than to
argue over the efficacy of salt use. It gets reduced with water exchanges if
you don't want it, and it won't really "hurt" anything (except the
aforementioned plants) until it's gone.

"Learn to keep the water and the water will keep the fish." I don't know
who made that statement, but there's a lot of truth in it. Good water with
no salt is far better than bad water *with* salt.

Lee

[Offbreed]

Lee B. wrote:
> we will die. Koi need certain levels also - HOWEVER, the *normal* ambient
> background salt in most water supplies is sufficient for their needs. At
> least here in Central Florida. Don't know about the rest of you folks.

This would be a problem in areas where people used rain catchment
systems, such as in rain forests or areas with nasty water in the
public utility. Thanks, I'll try to remember this.

[Lee B.]

Rainwater has a lot of other problems, too. Like, it's usually pretty soft,
lacking any carbonates to buffer your pH and *other* minerals that help the
fish adjust to life in captivity. The pH can also be questionable in
general: in the summer, if the rain comes in off the Gulf of Mexico, it's
usually OK, pretty close to neutral. But if the rain comes *across* FL -
over the phosphate mines - the pH can be in the mid 4's. Get a couple
inches of that in your pond, and if you're not properly buffered, you're
looking at a crash. It's especially bad if it hasn't rained in a few weeks
and there's a lot of "stuff" in the air. Rain water needs to be monitored
carefully, no matter where you live, if you count on it for pond water. My
rain problems aren't nationwide, let alone world-wide. Folks out in Arizona
near the copper mines would probably have a problem; other areas with
open-pit mining would have problems of their own, if only for the dust.

Lee

"Offbreed" > wrote in message
...
> Lee B. wrote:
> > we will die. Koi need certain levels also - HOWEVER, the *normal*
ambient
> > background salt in most water supplies is sufficient for their needs. At
> > least here in Central Florida. Don't know about the rest of you folks.
>
> This would be a problem in areas where people used rain catchment
> systems, such as in rain forests or areas with nasty water in the
> public utility. Thanks, I'll try to remember this.
>