Extending Water to Pond

[BenignVanilla]

Right now, when I want to fill the pond, I drag a hose out from the house.
If I wanted to put a spigot out back by the pond, what would be the best
material to use? Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
electrical conduit?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[PlainBill]

I flinch at the thought of water and electric lines in the same
trench. It would be a better idea to use two trenches - less chance
of disturbing one when digging up the other.

As far as the material - Schedule 40 PVC would be adequate, I doubt if
Schedule 80 would be worth the additional expense. I'd drive a 1/2"
rebar (or wooden post) at least three feet into the ground to provide
support for the spigot.

The previous owner of my place did this, but managed to botch the job.
He ran water lines to both ponds (and to various other points around
the yard). The cheap $%@^#$@% used Schedule 20, so I frequently am
pulling out sections to repair a leak. He put spigots positioned to
discharge directly into the pond, as well as automatic fill valves.
The latter was less successful for the koi pond. The koi liked to
play with it until the pond overflowed, so he pulled it out. The
goldfish in the other pond aren't as playful, so it wasn't a problem.

PlainBill

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:05:55 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
> wrote:

>Right now, when I want to fill the pond, I drag a hose out from the house.
>If I wanted to put a spigot out back by the pond, what would be the best
>material to use? Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
>electrical conduit?

[Ka30P]

BV wrote >>Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
electrical conduit?<<

ak! I had an immediate mental picture of somebody digging in the backyard and
hitting both lines at once. Looked like Wiley Coyote on one of his better
days...
You might always know that the lines run together but somebody else might not.
And if you have boys like I have boys... digging illicit holes is right up
there as mischief just waiting to happen.


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[BenignVanilla]

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> BV wrote >>Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
> electrical conduit?<<
>
> ak! I had an immediate mental picture of somebody digging in the backyard
and
> hitting both lines at once. Looked like Wiley Coyote on one of his better
> days...
> You might always know that the lines run together but somebody else might
not.
> And if you have boys like I have boys... digging illicit holes is right up
> there as mischief just waiting to happen.


Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing two
romex cables sounds bad? I thought that sounded great? I mean really...If
someone pounds a shovel through a piece of PVC, and thru both wires...will a
little water really make a difference? Especially if these circuits have
GFI's?

BV.

[Hank]

There is another no no. I don't believe you are supposed to run
romex through conduit. For safety sake you really should follow
national electrical codes.
As for the water. If you plan to drain or blow it out for the
winter, I would use 3/4" sprinkler tubing. It comes in 50' and 100'
rolls and is very cheap and easy to work with. (barbed fittings)

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
> ...
> > BV wrote >>Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
> > electrical conduit?<<
> >
> > ak! I had an immediate mental picture of somebody digging in the
backyard
> and
> > hitting both lines at once. Looked like Wiley Coyote on one of his
better
> > days...
> > You might always know that the lines run together but somebody
else might
> not.
> > And if you have boys like I have boys... digging illicit holes is
right up
> > there as mischief just waiting to happen.
>
>
> Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing
two
> romex cables sounds bad? I thought that sounded great? I mean
really...If
> someone pounds a shovel through a piece of PVC, and thru both
wires...will a
> little water really make a difference? Especially if these circuits
have
> GFI's?
>
> BV.
>
>

[BenignVanilla]

"Hank" > wrote in message
...
> There is another no no. I don't believe you are supposed to run
> romex through conduit. For safety sake you really should follow
> national electrical codes.
> As for the water. If you plan to drain or blow it out for the
> winter, I would use 3/4" sprinkler tubing. It comes in 50' and 100'
> rolls and is very cheap and easy to work with. (barbed fittings)
<snip>

Sorry, my bad...I was using Romex like most of use the word Band Aid. I just
meant wire (pronounced Whar). I'll be sure to talk to my 'lectrician friend
before I do any of this.

BV.

[Mike Patterson]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:05:55 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
> wrote:

>Right now, when I want to fill the pond, I drag a hose out from the house.
>If I wanted to put a spigot out back by the pond, what would be the best
>material to use? Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
>electrical conduit?

I buried a 1.5" flexible (theoretically!) pipe from the house to the
pond and ran 1/2" electrical conduit in the same trench under it.

Haven't gotten around to it yet, but I plan to run 1/4" tubing (like
that used for refrigerator icemakers) inside the 1.5" line for water.
Since flow volume isn't a big deal for topping up, I think this will
be OK. Still have lots of space to run other low-current wiring & such
through the 1.5" pipe if I want to.

My thought was that since I went to the trouble to dig a trench, I
might as well set it up so I wouldn't be likely to need to dig it
again.

Just a thought.

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Bryan]

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
> ...
> > BV wrote >>Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
> > electrical conduit?<<
> >
> > ak! I had an immediate mental picture of somebody digging in the
backyard
> and
> > hitting both lines at once. Looked like Wiley Coyote on one of his
better
> > days...
> > You might always know that the lines run together but somebody else
might
> not.
> > And if you have boys like I have boys... digging illicit holes is right
up
> > there as mischief just waiting to happen.
>
>
> Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing two
> romex cables sounds bad? I thought that sounded great? I mean really...If
> someone pounds a shovel through a piece of PVC, and thru both wires...will
a
> little water really make a difference? Especially if these circuits have
> GFI's?
>


here's a thought. save $ on pvc, run the electrical inside the waterline!
:-)

But honestly, if the trench is deep/wide enough, why not run in same hole?
But as others have said, check with local code/requirements would be a good
idea also.

Bryan

(legal notice for those who spill McDonalds hot coffee on themselves, and
sue M, I'm just kidding!)


> BV.
>
>

[Ka30P]

BV ~ Oh, I don't know nothing about those pesky electrons and H20 ;-)
BUT....
someone who was in the insurance
industry, once posted here about this
problem. In that if you have uninspected
work like this on your property, and you have
a fire, that your insurance can opt not to
cover your damage. Even if it had nothing to
do with the fire.

Be that as it may, my DH is an electrical engineer for a nuclear power plant.
When it came time to put in our power to our pond he hired an electrician. His
reasoning was that the fellow knew housing codes inside and out. We also had it
inspected by our city so we were doubly sure we were up to code.
Being in nuclear power he always has to make sure all the bases are firmly
covered so as to not bring down the wrath of the NRC upon his head.
Same applies to our family and household.

I know lots and lots of folks have extension cords all over the place and do
their own electrical work.
The insurance issue and the legality of it all puts me on the side of being
extra careful and I'm glad we did it the way we did.


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[joe]

BV - you shouldn't run romex in conduit, it gets too hot. You need to run
individual wires (black, white and ground)

Joe


On 3/3/04 10:05 AM, "BenignVanilla" > wrote:

> Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing two
> romex cables sounds bad?



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[joe]

Sorry - also, probably should be 20 amp service given pump loads and such.

Joe

On 3/3/04 5:20 PM, "joe" > wrote:

> BV - you shouldn't run romex in conduit, it gets too hot. You need to run
> individual wires (black, white and ground)
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 3/3/04 10:05 AM, "BenignVanilla" > wrote:
>
>> Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing two
>> romex cables sounds bad?



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Snooze]

"Bryan" > wrote in message
...
>
> here's a thought. save $ on pvc, run the electrical inside the waterline!
> :-)
>
> But honestly, if the trench is deep/wide enough, why not run in same hole?
> But as others have said, check with local code/requirements would be a
good
> idea also.
>
> Bryan
>
> (legal notice for those who spill McDonalds hot coffee on themselves, and
> sue M, I'm just kidding!)
>

Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying, "See,
I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1 pipe!"

Sameer

[BenignVanilla]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
. com...
<snip>
> Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying,
"See,
> I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1 pipe!"

Just to be clear, I meant water and electrical conduit in the same trench
not the same conduit. Was that clear?

BV.

[Nedra]

One pipe was never mentioned in your post, BV.
Your post was clear to me.
Some folks just don't read carefully enough - my opinion ;-)

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Snooze" > wrote in message
> . com...
> <snip>
> > Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying,
> "See,
> > I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1 pipe!"
>
> Just to be clear, I meant water and electrical conduit in the same trench
> not the same conduit. Was that clear?
>
> BV.
>
>

[Snooze]

"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Snooze" > wrote in message
> . com...
> > Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying,
> "See, I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1
pipe!"
>
> Just to be clear, I meant water and electrical conduit in the same trench
> not the same conduit. Was that clear?
>

BV you didn't read the comment of the person I was following up to. Brian
had made a joke and said "here's a thought. save $ on pvc, run the
electrical inside the waterline! :-)" My comment was directed towards him,
not your original post.

Sameer

[BenignVanilla]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
m...
> "BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Snooze" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > > Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying,
> > "See, I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1
> pipe!"
> >
> > Just to be clear, I meant water and electrical conduit in the same
trench
> > not the same conduit. Was that clear?
> >
>
> BV you didn't read the comment of the person I was following up to. Brian
> had made a joke and said "here's a thought. save $ on pvc, run the
> electrical inside the waterline! :-)" My comment was directed towards him,
> not your original post.

Ahh, OK. I was confused.

BV.

[Hal]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:20:56 -0800, joe > wrote:

>BV - you shouldn't run romex in conduit, it gets too hot. You need to run
>individual wires (black, white and ground)

Do you have a reference for this information? I've never heard it
before and some companies make fittings to accommodate running romex
into and through conduit. I'm sure there must be a situation calling
for individual wires, I just don't believe we are talking about that
situation, but I'd like to know, if you will explain it to me. Are
we talking about plastic or metal conduit? I've seen metal conduit
wired in this fashion, but never knew why because the wire wasn't long
enough to overheat with a normal load. I've listed a couple
references for using romex in conduit:

http://www.donpearman.com/forensics/pix/exposedromex.shtml
http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/1999/definitions/calconduitfill/calconduitfill.html
That URL will probably have to be put back together, but here is a
note from that page that indicates someone uses romex in conduit.
“Special Notes” When installing multi - conductor cable such as
Romex in a conduit you must calculate the actual dimensions of the
cable at it’s widest point, and figured as a circular assembly. Then
compare this area required to the 40% fill allowed for the conduit
being used.

Regards,

Hal

[Nedra]

OPSS ... Sorry, Sameer. Actually I destroyed my post and then
went ahead and sent it :(
Guess I'll go with my initial thought from now on.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Snooze" > wrote in message
m...
> "BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Snooze" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > > Right about now, there is probably printing your comments out saying,
> > "See, I told you we could save a lot of money and time by using only 1
> pipe!"
> >
> > Just to be clear, I meant water and electrical conduit in the same
trench
> > not the same conduit. Was that clear?
> >
>
> BV you didn't read the comment of the person I was following up to. Brian
> had made a joke and said "here's a thought. save $ on pvc, run the
> electrical inside the waterline! :-)" My comment was directed towards him,
> not your original post.
>
> Sameer
>
>
>
>

[Snooze]

"Nedra" > wrote in message
link.net...
> OPSS ... Sorry, Sameer. Actually I destroyed my post and then
> went ahead and sent it :(
> Guess I'll go with my initial thought from now on.
>

It's okay, but now you're in debt to me. The price is should we ever meet,
you owe me one serving of whatever your favorite dessert is. Unless it's
creme brulee, then it's 2 servings.

Sameer

[Snooze]

"Mike Patterson" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Haven't gotten around to it yet, but I plan to run 1/4" tubing (like
> that used for refrigerator icemakers) inside the 1.5" line for water.
> Since flow volume isn't a big deal for topping up, I think this will
> be OK. Still have lots of space to run other low-current wiring & such
> through the 1.5" pipe if I want to.

I'd recommend using a larger water tube. How long does it take to fill up a
glass of water from the fridge? Multiply that 200 gallons, and you've got an
afternoon of sitting by the pond waiting for it to top off. As someone who
has a tendency to wander off 10 minutes after turning on the hose, to return
to a flooded back yard, I think you'd want something a little faster.

Sameer

[john]

BenignVanilla wrote:
> Right now, when I want to fill the pond, I drag a hose out from the
> house. If I wanted to put a spigot out back by the pond, what would
> be the best material to use? Can I bury it in the same trench that I
> am using for an electrical conduit?
>
> -- BV. www.iheartmypond.com
>
> PVC and yes u can use the same trencnh but put the water line below
> the elec conduit at least a foot
I 'think if you look through my pond site you can see my outlet, its 1"
PVC with a ball valve

John Rutz

[john]

OK I ran romex through condiut for my old trailer,for 50 ft the line is
still in opweration aftr 10 yrs
when we wired the pond the romex is in conduit, its required by the
bldg code if its exposed(NOT INSIDE A WALL) or buried

John RUTZ

Hal wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:20:56 -0800, joe > wrote:
>
>
>>BV - you shouldn't run romex in conduit, it gets too hot. You need to run
>>individual wires (black, white and ground)
>
>
> Do you have a reference for this information? I've never heard it
> before and some companies make fittings to accommodate running romex
> into and through conduit. I'm sure there must be a situation calling
> for individual wires, I just don't believe we are talking about that
> situation, but I'd like to know, if you will explain it to me. Are
> we talking about plastic or metal conduit? I've seen metal conduit
> wired in this fashion, but never knew why because the wire wasn't long
> enough to overheat with a normal load. I've listed a couple
> references for using romex in conduit:
>
> http://www.donpearman.com/forensics/pix/exposedromex.shtml
> http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/1999/definitions/calconduitfill/calconduitfill.html
> That URL will probably have to be put back together, but here is a
> note from that page that indicates someone uses romex in conduit.
> “Special Notes” When installing multi - conductor cable such as
> Romex in a conduit you must calculate the actual dimensions of the
> cable at it’s widest point, and figured as a circular assembly. Then
> compare this area required to the 40% fill allowed for the conduit
> being used.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal

[john]

john wrote:
> OK I ran romex through condiut for my old trailer,for 50 ft the line is
> still in opweration aftr 10 yrs
> when we wired the pond the romex is in conduit, its required by the
> bldg code if its exposed(NOT INSIDE A WALL) or buried
>
> John RUTZ

oops should of said if its direct burial cable it has to be 4 ft down

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Grey PVC for electric and white for water. Works great.

Jim

--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"BenignVanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
> ...
> > BV wrote >>Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
> > electrical conduit?<<
> >
> > ak! I had an immediate mental picture of somebody digging in the
backyard
> and
> > hitting both lines at once. Looked like Wiley Coyote on one of his
better
> > days...
> > You might always know that the lines run together but somebody else
might
> not.
> > And if you have boys like I have boys... digging illicit holes is right
up
> > there as mischief just waiting to happen.
>
>
> Really? Running two conduits...one full of water, and one containing two
> romex cables sounds bad? I thought that sounded great? I mean really...If
> someone pounds a shovel through a piece of PVC, and thru both wires...will
a
> little water really make a difference? Especially if these circuits have
> GFI's?
>
> BV.
>
>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Nuclear pond?

Jim

--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> BV ~ Oh, I don't know nothing about those pesky electrons and H20 ;-)
> BUT....
> someone who was in the insurance
> industry, once posted here about this
> problem. In that if you have uninspected
> work like this on your property, and you have
> a fire, that your insurance can opt not to
> cover your damage. Even if it had nothing to
> do with the fire.
>
> Be that as it may, my DH is an electrical engineer for a nuclear power
plant.
> When it came time to put in our power to our pond he hired an electrician.
His
> reasoning was that the fellow knew housing codes inside and out. We also
had it
> inspected by our city so we were doubly sure we were up to code.
> Being in nuclear power he always has to make sure all the bases are firmly
> covered so as to not bring down the wrath of the NRC upon his head.
> Same applies to our family and household.
>
> I know lots and lots of folks have extension cords all over the place and
do
> their own electrical work.
> The insurance issue and the legality of it all puts me on the side of
being
> extra careful and I'm glad we did it the way we did.
>
>
> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Mike,

Don't know how big your pond is, but I would recommend running a larger line
and using something like a toilet valve (Floating cylinder on post) as an
auto level device. Ours sticks out of a tupperware contained filled with
rocks. The koi haven't bothered it and we never worry about topping up the
pond. It works fine on the regular household PVC, 1/2". I would be
skittish, however, of running water and that kind of elec. in the same pipe.
The pvc will do fine on its own underground. Ours runs under our deck, up
against the beams.

Good luck.

Jim

--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"Mike Patterson" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:05:55 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
> > wrote:
>
> >Right now, when I want to fill the pond, I drag a hose out from the
house.
> >If I wanted to put a spigot out back by the pond, what would be the best
> >material to use? Can I bury it in the same trench that I am using for an
> >electrical conduit?
>
> I buried a 1.5" flexible (theoretically!) pipe from the house to the
> pond and ran 1/2" electrical conduit in the same trench under it.
>
> Haven't gotten around to it yet, but I plan to run 1/4" tubing (like
> that used for refrigerator icemakers) inside the 1.5" line for water.
> Since flow volume isn't a big deal for topping up, I think this will
> be OK. Still have lots of space to run other low-current wiring & such
> through the 1.5" pipe if I want to.
>
> My thought was that since I went to the trouble to dig a trench, I
> might as well set it up so I wouldn't be likely to need to dig it
> again.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Mike Patterson
> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Mike Patterson]

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:10:43 -0600, "Phyllis and Jim Hurley"
> wrote:

>Mike,
>
>Don't know how big your pond is, but I would recommend running a larger line
>and using something like a toilet valve (Floating cylinder on post) as an
>auto level device. Ours sticks out of a tupperware contained filled with
>rocks. The koi haven't bothered it and we never worry about topping up the
>pond. It works fine on the regular household PVC, 1/2". I would be
>skittish, however, of running water and that kind of elec. in the same pipe.
>The pvc will do fine on its own underground. Ours runs under our deck, up
>against the beams.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Jim

Thanks for the input.

I may go with 1/2" line instead of 1/4".

Any electrical that ran through the outer pipe would be low voltage
signal wires (Cat 5E plenum rated most likely.) Might run a wireless
access point out there, as my wireless signals just barely reach out
there right now with a wireless router in the house..


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Ka30P]

Jim wrote >>Nuclear pond?<<

Yep, you know they stick those rods
in the beautiful blue water... that's
where the three headed frogs come
from!


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Computing by the pond is such a blast! I am a professor. that gives me an
excuse to 'study' by the pond. Great sport!

Jim

--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"Mike Patterson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:10:43 -0600, "Phyllis and Jim Hurley"
> > wrote:
>
> >Mike,
> >
> >Don't know how big your pond is, but I would recommend running a larger
line
> >and using something like a toilet valve (Floating cylinder on post) as an
> >auto level device. Ours sticks out of a tupperware contained filled with
> >rocks. The koi haven't bothered it and we never worry about topping up
the
> >pond. It works fine on the regular household PVC, 1/2". I would be
> >skittish, however, of running water and that kind of elec. in the same
pipe.
> >The pvc will do fine on its own underground. Ours runs under our deck,
up
> >against the beams.
> >
> >Good luck.
> >
> >Jim
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> I may go with 1/2" line instead of 1/4".
>
> Any electrical that ran through the outer pipe would be low voltage
> signal wires (Cat 5E plenum rated most likely.) Might run a wireless
> access point out there, as my wireless signals just barely reach out
> there right now with a wireless router in the house..
>
>
> Mike Patterson
> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.