KOI Questions

[Wayne]

I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago. It
has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
will be deeply appreciated.

[Offbreed]

joe wrote:

> On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
>
>>She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
>>take about five years for them to get six inches long.
>
>
> Probably less than one year.
>
>
>>... my wife has lost her wits.
>
>
> You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

What did Heinlein say? "If have an argument with your wife and you
turn out to be right, apologize immediately"?

[Offbreed]

joe wrote:

> On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
>
>>She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
>>take about five years for them to get six inches long.
>
>
> Probably less than one year.
>
>
>>... my wife has lost her wits.
>
>
> You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

What did Heinlein say? "If have an argument with your wife and you
turn out to be right, apologize immediately"?

[joe]

On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:

> She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long.

Probably less than one year.

> ... my wife has lost her wits.

You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

Joe



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[joe]

On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:

> She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long.

Probably less than one year.

> ... my wife has lost her wits.

You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

Joe



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[Ka30P]

You can tell her that rec.ponds usually recommends 1,000 gallons to start with
and
an additional 100 gallons for each koi and a more serious filter so you need
1,300 additional gallons and a new filter.
Green water, in addition to poor fish health, is a danger with a small pond and
fountain filter overcrowding.
(Can't help you with the consequences of a wife loosing her wits as I *am* a
wife and that never, ever happens ;-)



kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Ka30P]

You can tell her that rec.ponds usually recommends 1,000 gallons to start with
and
an additional 100 gallons for each koi and a more serious filter so you need
1,300 additional gallons and a new filter.
Green water, in addition to poor fish health, is a danger with a small pond and
fountain filter overcrowding.
(Can't help you with the consequences of a wife loosing her wits as I *am* a
wife and that never, ever happens ;-)



kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Nedra]

Wayne, You ARE right and wife is Wrong! The idiot
who sold her the Koi should be Sued... he lied - plain and simple.

It will take about a month for the Koi to reach 4 or 5 inches.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Nedra]

Wayne, You ARE right and wife is Wrong! The idiot
who sold her the Koi should be Sued... he lied - plain and simple.

It will take about a month for the Koi to reach 4 or 5 inches.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Lee B.]

(Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll come
back for more, right?

Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your nice
little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to feed
that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!

Lee

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Lee B.]

(Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll come
back for more, right?

Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your nice
little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to feed
that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!

Lee

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Nedra]

Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!

Lee, you have the best advice ...
Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
want the Koi to suffer!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
> preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
> think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
come
> back for more, right?
>
> Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
nice
> little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
feed
> that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
>
> Lee
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
> It
> > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
clear
> > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
that
> > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
he's
> > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
matter
> > will be deeply appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>

[Nedra]

Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!

Lee, you have the best advice ...
Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
want the Koi to suffer!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
> preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
> think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
come
> back for more, right?
>
> Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
nice
> little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
feed
> that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
>
> Lee
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
> It
> > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
clear
> > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
that
> > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
he's
> > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
matter
> > will be deeply appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>

[Wayne]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Nedra, I'm like you. I don't want
the Koi to suffer either but now I'm in a quandary. Keep 'em and I've got
to either give them away to someone with a larger pond, big enough to
accommodate them or enlarge mine to the 3000 gallon equivalent that everyone
seems to recommend. Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell them
to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary but
I won't let the Koi suffer for sure. Thanks again to everyone.

"Nedra" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
> very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!
>
> Lee, you have the best advice ...
> Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
> want the Koi to suffer!
>
> Nedra
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
> > preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
> > think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
> come
> > back for more, right?
> >
> > Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
> nice
> > little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
> feed
> > that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Wayne]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Nedra, I'm like you. I don't want
the Koi to suffer either but now I'm in a quandary. Keep 'em and I've got
to either give them away to someone with a larger pond, big enough to
accommodate them or enlarge mine to the 3000 gallon equivalent that everyone
seems to recommend. Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell them
to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary but
I won't let the Koi suffer for sure. Thanks again to everyone.

"Nedra" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
> very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!
>
> Lee, you have the best advice ...
> Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
> want the Koi to suffer!
>
> Nedra
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100 gal.
> > preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way. I
> > think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
> come
> > back for more, right?
> >
> > Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
> nice
> > little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
> feed
> > that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[joe]

Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to the
store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just didn't
understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell something.
Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help prevent a
future incident.

IMHO

Joe


On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:

> Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell them
> to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary but
> I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.



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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[joe]

Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to the
store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just didn't
understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell something.
Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help prevent a
future incident.

IMHO

Joe


On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:

> Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell them
> to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary but
> I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Wayne]

Good point, Joe. Let me query the wife a little bit more and find out
who/where she got them.
The store does need to educate their people a little bit beyond just how to
make the sell. Thanks for replying.

"joe" > wrote in message
...
> Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to the
> store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just didn't
> understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell something.
> Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help prevent a
> future incident.
>
> IMHO
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
> > Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> > keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> > probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> > stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell
them
> > to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary
but
> > I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Wayne]

Good point, Joe. Let me query the wife a little bit more and find out
who/where she got them.
The store does need to educate their people a little bit beyond just how to
make the sell. Thanks for replying.

"joe" > wrote in message
...
> Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to the
> store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just didn't
> understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell something.
> Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help prevent a
> future incident.
>
> IMHO
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
> > Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> > keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> > probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> > stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell
them
> > to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary
but
> > I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[GrannyGrump]

Over-night them to me! :)

[GrannyGrump]

Over-night them to me! :)

[Wayne]

PetsMart is where my wife got the 4 Koi and the salesman was just as you
say. I'll be paying them a visit in the next few days to talk with them
about selling my wife the Koi and all of the misleading information that
they gave her. 4 more goldfish would have been fine, but no, push the small
Koi as good substitutes for goldfish, ignorant salesman.

"Pond Newbie" > wrote in message
...
> Petsmart does the same thing. The people who work there are your typical
minimum wage
> clerks, who know little of nothing about Koi or even tropical fish. I
remember them
> telling me that "These koi won't get very big in a small pond", and "Koi
won't eat
> anything living, only plant matter." LOL.
>
> And I wondered where those smaller minnows kept going....
>
> Many times it isn't out of malice-the people are just repeating what
little 'training'
> they have received, or even worse, repeating what other clueless employees
have told them.
>
> This place is a goldmine of information. Don't trust what you hear in most
pet stores.
>
> DeAnna
> --
> http://lamb.iswiz.com/pond.php
> If you remember that I prefer my spam without cheese-
> then you may be able to email me.
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Good point, Joe. Let me query the wife a little bit more and find out
> > who/where she got them.
> > The store does need to educate their people a little bit beyond just how
to
> > make the sell. Thanks for replying.
> >
> > "joe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to
the
> > > store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just
didn't
> > > understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell
something.
> > > Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help
prevent a
> > > future incident.
> > >
> > > IMHO
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> > > > keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back.
I
> > > > probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of
their
> > > > stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just
sell
> > them
> > > > to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a
quandary
> > but
> > > > I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Wayne]

PetsMart is where my wife got the 4 Koi and the salesman was just as you
say. I'll be paying them a visit in the next few days to talk with them
about selling my wife the Koi and all of the misleading information that
they gave her. 4 more goldfish would have been fine, but no, push the small
Koi as good substitutes for goldfish, ignorant salesman.

"Pond Newbie" > wrote in message
...
> Petsmart does the same thing. The people who work there are your typical
minimum wage
> clerks, who know little of nothing about Koi or even tropical fish. I
remember them
> telling me that "These koi won't get very big in a small pond", and "Koi
won't eat
> anything living, only plant matter." LOL.
>
> And I wondered where those smaller minnows kept going....
>
> Many times it isn't out of malice-the people are just repeating what
little 'training'
> they have received, or even worse, repeating what other clueless employees
have told them.
>
> This place is a goldmine of information. Don't trust what you hear in most
pet stores.
>
> DeAnna
> --
> http://lamb.iswiz.com/pond.php
> If you remember that I prefer my spam without cheese-
> then you may be able to email me.
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Good point, Joe. Let me query the wife a little bit more and find out
> > who/where she got them.
> > The store does need to educate their people a little bit beyond just how
to
> > make the sell. Thanks for replying.
> >
> > "joe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Well, even if you do build that 3000 gal pond, you should go down to
the
> > > store and talk to the manager. Maybe the guy who sold the fish just
didn't
> > > understand Koi and ponds or perhaps he was just trying to sell
something.
> > > Either way the manager or owner should be given feedback to help
prevent a
> > > future incident.
> > >
> > > IMHO
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/24/04 2:58 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> > > > keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back.
I
> > > > probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of
their
> > > > stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just
sell
> > them
> > > > to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a
quandary
> > but
> > > > I won't let the Koi suffer for sure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Wayne]

Thanks GG, I'll keep your recommendation under advisement <g>.

"GrannyGrump" > wrote in message
...
> Over-night them to me! :)

[Wayne]

Thanks GG, I'll keep your recommendation under advisement <g>.

"GrannyGrump" > wrote in message
...
> Over-night them to me! :)

[BenignVanilla]

"joe" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
> > She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long.
>
> Probably less than one year.
>
> > ... my wife has lost her wits.
>
> You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

IMHO, you are correct on all counts. Your pond is probably close to
overstocked as it is.

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[BenignVanilla]

"joe" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/24/04 12:02 PM, "Wayne" > wrote:
>
> > She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long.
>
> Probably less than one year.
>
> > ... my wife has lost her wits.
>
> You should never put this kind of stuff in writing!

IMHO, you are correct on all counts. Your pond is probably close to
overstocked as it is.

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Alan R Williams]

"Wayne" > writes:

> PetsMart is where my wife got the 4 Koi and the salesman was just as you
> say. I'll be paying them a visit in the next few days to talk with them
> about selling my wife the Koi and all of the misleading information that
> they gave her. 4 more goldfish would have been fine, but no, push the small
> Koi as good substitutes for goldfish, ignorant salesman.

Maybe the salesman doesn't know the difference between Koi and
Shubunkin.

Alan

--
Alan Williams, Room IT301, Department of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 6270 Fax: +44 161 275 6280

[Alan R Williams]

"Wayne" > writes:

> PetsMart is where my wife got the 4 Koi and the salesman was just as you
> say. I'll be paying them a visit in the next few days to talk with them
> about selling my wife the Koi and all of the misleading information that
> they gave her. 4 more goldfish would have been fine, but no, push the small
> Koi as good substitutes for goldfish, ignorant salesman.

Maybe the salesman doesn't know the difference between Koi and
Shubunkin.

Alan

--
Alan Williams, Room IT301, Department of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 6270 Fax: +44 161 275 6280

[Judi9000]

If you take fish back to pet Smart they will kill them. At least that's what
they told me. Try another pet store.

[Judi9000]

If you take fish back to pet Smart they will kill them. At least that's what
they told me. Try another pet store.

[Critical Popperian]

Is you live in GA area and their livelihood is at stake, let me know we have room

[Critical Popperian]

Is you live in GA area and their livelihood is at stake, let me know we have room

[Wayne]

Thanks but we live in the Charlotte area of NC.

"Critical Popperian" > wrote in message
om...
> Is you live in GA area and their livelihood is at stake, let me know we
have room

[Wayne]

Thanks but we live in the Charlotte area of NC.

"Critical Popperian" > wrote in message
om...
> Is you live in GA area and their livelihood is at stake, let me know we
have room

[Just Me \Koi\]

I beg to differ with everyone else!

I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
you probably don't want to help her get it!

So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then you
will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the larger
pond.

I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then the
jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!

I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

I beg to differ with everyone else!

I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
you probably don't want to help her get it!

So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then you
will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the larger
pond.

I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then the
jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!

I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
It
> has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely clear
> with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues that
> they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
would
> take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that he's
> full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this matter
> will be deeply appreciated.
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

Do what your wifey had planned for you all along! Dig the three thousand
gallon pond for her, and join us in our endless efforts at replicating a
mother nature water element!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks to everyone for your responses. Nedra, I'm like you. I don't want
> the Koi to suffer either but now I'm in a quandary. Keep 'em and I've got
> to either give them away to someone with a larger pond, big enough to
> accommodate them or enlarge mine to the 3000 gallon equivalent that
everyone
> seems to recommend. Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell
them
> to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary
but
> I won't let the Koi suffer for sure. Thanks again to everyone.
>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
> > very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!
> >
> > Lee, you have the best advice ...
> > Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
> > want the Koi to suffer!
> >
> > Nedra
> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> >
> > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100
gal.
> > > preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way.
I
> > > think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
> > come
> > > back for more, right?
> > >
> > > Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
> > nice
> > > little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
> > feed
> > > that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
> ago.
> > > It
> > > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> > clear
> > > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing
home
> 4
> > > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
> back,
> > > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She
argues
> > that
> > > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
> too
> > > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that
it
> > > would
> > > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> > he's
> > > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> > matter
> > > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

Do what your wifey had planned for you all along! Dig the three thousand
gallon pond for her, and join us in our endless efforts at replicating a
mother nature water element!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Wayne" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks to everyone for your responses. Nedra, I'm like you. I don't want
> the Koi to suffer either but now I'm in a quandary. Keep 'em and I've got
> to either give them away to someone with a larger pond, big enough to
> accommodate them or enlarge mine to the 3000 gallon equivalent that
everyone
> seems to recommend. Or, we could give them back to the store and let them
> keep the money but I'm not sure that they would even take them back. I
> probably wouldn't because of risk of contamination to the rest of their
> stock. And even if the store did take them back, then they'd just sell
them
> to someone else that doesn't know better. As I said, I'm in a quandary
but
> I won't let the Koi suffer for sure. Thanks again to everyone.
>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Well ... everyone can plainly see I lose my temper
> > very quickly. <sigh> It's inbred!
> >
> > Lee, you have the best advice ...
> > Wayne, please hurry with that 3,000 gallon pond. We don't
> > want the Koi to suffer!
> >
> > Nedra
> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> >
> > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > (Long sigh) - yeh, the guys at the local fish store told me my 100
gal.
> > > preform would support 5 koi, too. Then I found out OTHERwise! No way.
I
> > > think they just want to sell fish: after all, if you kill them, you'll
> > come
> > > back for more, right?
> > >
> > > Better start planning and break out the shovel: you'll be turning your
> > nice
> > > little pre-form into a veggie filter or a header for the water fall to
> > feed
> > > that new 3,000 gallon pond you'll have to dig very (VERY) soon <G>!
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
> ago.
> > > It
> > > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> > clear
> > > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing
home
> 4
> > > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
> back,
> > > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She
argues
> > that
> > > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
> too
> > > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that
it
> > > would
> > > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> > he's
> > > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> > matter
> > > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[T]

"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> I beg to differ with everyone else!
>
> I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
> you probably don't want to help her get it!
>
> So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then you
> will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
larger
> pond.
>
> I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
the
> jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
>
> I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
> It
> > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
clear
> > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
that
> > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
he's
> > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
matter
> > will be deeply appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>

And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new 3000
Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you got
to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...

Tim

[T]

"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> I beg to differ with everyone else!
>
> I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
> you probably don't want to help her get it!
>
> So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then you
> will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
larger
> pond.
>
> I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
the
> jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
>
> I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years ago.
> It
> > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
clear
> > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home 4
> > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them back,
> > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
that
> > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get too
> > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> would
> > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
he's
> > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
matter
> > will be deeply appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>

And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new 3000
Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you got
to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...

Tim

[Just Me \Koi\]

Exactly!............................

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"T" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I beg to differ with everyone else!
> >
> > I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond
and
> > you probably don't want to help her get it!
> >
> > So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then
you
> > will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
> larger
> > pond.
> >
> > I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> > business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
> the
> > jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
> >
> > I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new
3000
> Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you
got
> to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...
>
> Tim
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

Exactly!............................

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"T" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I beg to differ with everyone else!
> >
> > I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond
and
> > you probably don't want to help her get it!
> >
> > So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then
you
> > will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
> larger
> > pond.
> >
> > I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> > business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
> the
> > jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
> >
> > I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new
3000
> Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you
got
> to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...
>
> Tim
>
>

[Wayne]

"T" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I beg to differ with everyone else!
> >
> > I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond
and
> > you probably don't want to help her get it!
> >
> > So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then
you
> > will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
> larger
> > pond.
> >
> > I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> > business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
> the
> > jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
> >
> > I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new
3000
> Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you
got
> to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...
>
> Tim

Your probably right <g>!

[Wayne]

"T" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I beg to differ with everyone else!
> >
> > I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond
and
> > you probably don't want to help her get it!
> >
> > So she figures that if she gets you to keep the Koi fingerlings, then
you
> > will get attached tot he Koi and will be more apt to help her get the
> larger
> > pond.
> >
> > I think she is our kind of porg! And the koi peddler? He wants the
> > business! Algae bloom chemicals, replacement fish, on and on. And then
> the
> > jackpot when you finally decide to get the bigger pond!
> >
> > I will go back to my other conspiracy theory programs now!
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > "Wayne" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I installed a 220 gallon pre-formed pond for my wife about 3 years
ago.
> > It
> > > has a fountain filter and plenty of plants. The water is extremely
> clear
> > > with only 10 goldfish in it. She surprised me today by bringing home
4
> > > small fingerling Koi to put in the pond. I urged her to take them
back,
> > > that they are too much and will get too big for the pond. She argues
> that
> > > they aren't going back and that she will get rid of them if they get
too
> > > big. She also said that the guy who sold them to her told her that it
> > would
> > > take about five years for them to get six inches long. I think that
> he's
> > > full of crap and that my wife has lost her wits. Feedback on this
> matter
> > > will be deeply appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> And then BOOM, Suddenly after the $3.49 PetSmart Koi get in thier new
3000
> Gallon pond is when the nice Koi start showing up VIA UPS .. Wayne, you
got
> to know its a ploy.... Ya gotta know...
>
> Tim

Your probably right <g>!

[BenignVanilla]

"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> I beg to differ with everyone else!
>
> I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
> you probably don't want to help her get it!
<snip>

Nevermind that man behind the curtain. Move along, move along...nothing to
see here. Nudge Nudge. Know What I mean?


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[BenignVanilla]

"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> I beg to differ with everyone else!
>
> I think your wife is a genius! Obviously she wants a real large pond and
> you probably don't want to help her get it!
<snip>

Nevermind that man behind the curtain. Move along, move along...nothing to
see here. Nudge Nudge. Know What I mean?


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[[email protected]]

how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond? Ingrid


> wrote:

>I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable. I
>take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation feeding
>from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp 12
>inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed Koi
>food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The water
>is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>on - 3ft of water straight down.
>
>The questions:
>
>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if he
>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously abnormal.
>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would have
>been about 4 years old.
>
>1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>one unusual or quite to be expected?
>
>3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>
>All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the tench
>at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they are
>golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>"
>2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>go?
>
>3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>
>4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>where has the missing one gone?
>
>Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have seen
>him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>
>5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>fed for some time?
>
>Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to be
>going on?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

my last fish died the only thing I found on necropsy was infected eggs. it most
likely was the result of birds drinking and bathing in my veggie filter and pooping
in there. Ingrid

> wrote:
>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if he
>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously abnormal.
>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would have
>been about 4 years old.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
looked in fine form the day before.

Fireball



> wrote in message
...
> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
> Ingrid
>
>
> > wrote:
>
>>I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>>everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>>filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable.
>>I
>>take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>>built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation
>>feeding
>>from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp
>>12
>>inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>>goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>>behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed
>>Koi
>>food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>>The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>>have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The
>>water
>>is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>>on - 3ft of water straight down.
>>
>>The questions:
>>
>>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if
>>he
>>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously
>>abnormal.
>>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would
>>have
>>been about 4 years old.
>>
>>1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>>one unusual or quite to be expected?
>>
>>3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>>golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>>
>>All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the
>>tench
>>at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>>one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>>it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they
>>are
>>golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>>"
>>2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>>go?
>>
>>3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>>certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>>
>>4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>>weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>>fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>>where has the missing one gone?
>>
>>Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>>and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have
>>seen
>>him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>>
>>5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>>fed for some time?
>>
>>Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to
>>be
>>going on?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[San Diego Joe]

" wrote:

> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
> looked in fine form the day before.
>
> Fireball
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>> Ingrid
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>>> everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>>> filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable.
>>> I
>>> take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>>> built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation
>>> feeding
>>> from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp
>>> 12
>>> inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>>> goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>>> behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed
>>> Koi
>>> food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>>> The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>>> have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The
>>> water
>>> is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>>> on - 3ft of water straight down.
>>>
>>> The questions:
>>>
>>> 4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if
>>> he
>>> had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously
>>> abnormal.
>>> He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would
>>> have
>>> been about 4 years old.
>>>
>>> 1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>>> one unusual or quite to be expected?
>>>
>>> 3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>>> golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>>>
>>> All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the
>>> tench
>>> at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>>> one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>>> it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they
>>> are
>>> golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>>> "
>>> 2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>>> go?
>>>
>>> 3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>>> certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>>>
>>> 4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>>> weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>>> fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>>> where has the missing one gone?
>>>
>>> Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>>> and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have
>>> seen
>>> him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>>>
>>> 5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>>> fed for some time?
>>>
>>> Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to
>>> be
>>> going on?
>>>


I isolate mine for about three weeks in an aquarium just for that purpose.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without quarantine.
Ingrid:

" wrote:
>
>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>
>> Fireball
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>> Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

" wrote:
>
>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>> looked in fine form the day before.

The right way and the reasons why to quarantine:

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=195&name=Newest%20Articles

~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I probably should have typed, one of the right ways, not *The* right way.
;o) ~ jan
>
>The right way and the reasons why to quarantine:
>
>http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=195&name=Newest%20Articles
>
>~ jan
>

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[[email protected]]

well explain your indicator fish technique. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:45:24 GMT, wrote:

>well explain your indicator fish technique. Ingrid

Mike Singleton says it better than I: :o)

The next thing that should be done and often is not, is the introduction of
an expendable "test flyer" (or two) from the main pond, *into* the QT tank.
That's right, move one or two fish *from* the pond, *into* the tank with
the new fish. Why? This will let you find out if the normal "background"
bacteria that are normal to your new fish, will be a problem for your
existing fish. All fish have "resident" bacteria that they are "used to."
Put a child in a new school, and you should not be surprised to find
him/her come home with a cold, or at least a simple case of the sniffles.
In a short period of time, he/she will get over it and will have adjusted
to the new "background bugs." Same with fish!

The fish from the pond will introduce the pond's background bacteria to the
new fish, and they will also have the chance to sample the new fish's
background bacteria. So, you have to watch *all* the fish in the QT tank.
If after two weeks of cohabitation everyone seems fine, start doing partial
water changes in the QT tank, replacing the removed water with water *from*
the main pond. Once satisfied that nothing new is going on with the new
fish once the majority of the water has been changed, then you can move
them to the main pond.

Full Text:
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=195&name=Newest%20Articles

~ jan :o)


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I have just read the link. Wow. You have to be joking! Where can I set up
that sort of system, and how can I provide the equipment and what appears to
be time as well for the welfare for one tiddler! I have bought about 10 Koi
and this was the first time I have lost one within 4 weeks of there
introduction. Was I lucky for the 10, or unlucky with the one that died.

Are we all absolutely sure that if you go to all that trouble described in
the link that a living fish is guarenteed all the way through to the end and
a successfully introduced fish?

I wonder how many fish die anyway during that complex introductory
methodology. The stress must be significant.


What do you think?




> wrote in message
...
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
> altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
> lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without
> quarantine.
> Ingrid:
>
" wrote:
>>
>>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and
>>> new
>>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how
>>> should
>>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>>
>>> Fireball
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>>> Ingrid
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

most people toss in that new fish and are lucky. then along comes a fish that has a
serious and deadly disease and wipes out all the fish in the pond. some fish are
even carriers and they wont die, but kill all the rest. after losing an entire
collection of friends ... koi that come to our hand, know us by sight that been
around for years to a new, small unknown new koi there simply isnt any question
anymore. the last koi I introduced had been quarantined inside in an aquarium for 6
months.
the point of quarantine is that if that fish is going to die better it dies alone in
the quarantine tank than spreading what it got to the established fish in the pond.
A koi in a 100 gallon quarantine rubbermaid stock tank can be treated, medicated and
even given injections if needed and it is more likely to survive the months of
quarantine there than in a pond where it couldnt be treated the same. Ingrid

> wrote:

>I have just read the link. Wow. You have to be joking! Where can I set up
>that sort of system, and how can I provide the equipment and what appears to
>be time as well for the welfare for one tiddler! I have bought about 10 Koi
>and this was the first time I have lost one within 4 weeks of there
>introduction. Was I lucky for the 10, or unlucky with the one that died.
>
>Are we all absolutely sure that if you go to all that trouble described in
>the link that a living fish is guarenteed all the way through to the end and
>a successfully introduced fish?
>
>I wonder how many fish die anyway during that complex introductory
>methodology. The stress must be significant.
>
>
>What do you think?
>
>
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
>> altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
>> lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without
>> quarantine.
>> Ingrid:
>>
" wrote:
>>>
>>>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and
>>>> new
>>>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how
>>>> should
>>>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>>>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>>>
>>>> Fireball
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>>>> Ingrid
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> most people toss in that new fish and are lucky. then along comes a fish
that has a
> serious and deadly disease and wipes out all the fish in the pond. some
fish are
> even carriers and they wont die, but kill all the rest. after losing an
entire
> collection of friends ... koi that come to our hand, know us by sight that
been
> around for years to a new, small unknown new koi there simply isnt any
question
> anymore. the last koi I introduced had been quarantined inside in an
aquarium for 6
> months.
> the point of quarantine is that if that fish is going to die better it
dies alone in
> the quarantine tank than spreading what it got to the established fish in
the pond.
> A koi in a 100 gallon quarantine rubbermaid stock tank can be treated,
medicated and
> even given injections if needed and it is more likely to survive the
months of
> quarantine there than in a pond where it couldnt be treated the same.
Ingrid

Ingrid,

I am naughty and have not used a quarantine tank, so this is a serious
question. Each time you toss a fish into quarantine, and then move it to the
pond, do you empty the quarantine tank, disinfect it and then refill and
re-cycle it?

BV.

[[email protected]]

usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the next spring.
I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had to recycle
any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the gravel and
pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big water changes
at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>I am naughty and have not used a quarantine tank, so this is a serious
>question. Each time you toss a fish into quarantine, and then move it to the
>pond, do you empty the quarantine tank, disinfect it and then refill and
>re-cycle it?
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>I am naughty and have not used a quarantine tank, so this is a serious
>question. Each time you toss a fish into quarantine, and then move it to the
>pond, do you empty the quarantine tank, disinfect it and then refill and
>re-cycle it?

I don't, if the fish has proved to be healthy enough to go in the pond, the
Q-tank is safe, imo.

Regarding the practice of quarantine versus luck. If you don't have lots of
cash, tis much cheaper to treat 50-100 gallons of water instead of
thousands.

If you end up adding a fish with one of the viruses, the fish that don't
die, you will have to put down, if you ever want to add new fish again, and
then you have to bomb the pond with chlorine and lift all the folds, etc.
as some of the viruses can live up to 6 months in the mulm with no host.
~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the
next spring.
> I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had
to recycle
> any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the
gravel and
> pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big
water changes
> at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid


What I meant was, if you use the tank for quarentine, do you bomb it
afterwards just in case the fish had cooties that you did not catch or
notice?

BV.

[[email protected]]

no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish die in the
tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid


"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the
>next spring.
>> I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had
>to recycle
>> any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the
>gravel and
>> pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big
>water changes
>> at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid
>
>
>What I meant was, if you use the tank for quarentine, do you bomb it
>afterwards just in case the fish had cooties that you did not catch or
>notice?
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish
die in the
> tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid
<snip>

Ahhh, you let it go dry between uses. I guess I always picture a full tank
ready to go and cycled at all times.

BV.

[[email protected]]

nahhh... dont buy fish that often.

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish
>die in the
>> tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid
><snip>
>
>Ahhh, you let it go dry between uses. I guess I always picture a full tank
>ready to go and cycled at all times.
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
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Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.