Help - New Large Koi Pond

[Jeff]

We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
- Jeff

[BenignVanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks

If the pond is currently fish-less, it will change once you add fish.
Especially little piggies like Koi. The amount of filtration is directly
related to the number of fish divided by the hypotenuse of the size of the
pond or something like that. Basic rule of thumb for keeping koi in an
environment that would suffer sharp swings in water quality is 1000 gallons
for the first, and 100 gallons for each there after.

When you say spring fed, do you imply the water is constantly being changed?
If so, filtration may be moot.

BV.

[BenignVanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks

If the pond is currently fish-less, it will change once you add fish.
Especially little piggies like Koi. The amount of filtration is directly
related to the number of fish divided by the hypotenuse of the size of the
pond or something like that. Basic rule of thumb for keeping koi in an
environment that would suffer sharp swings in water quality is 1000 gallons
for the first, and 100 gallons for each there after.

When you say spring fed, do you imply the water is constantly being changed?
If so, filtration may be moot.

BV.

[Jeff]

The water is running pretty constantly now but I assume it will dry up
pretty much in the summer. My current plan is to circulate the water
with a pump, probably to a little stream or waterfall for asthetics.
There is no liner, actually nothing at the bottom. Is this good
enough?
I calculate about 50,000 gal. if 3 ft deep, which would be 500 fish
by your formula. We obviously don't plan on keeping that many fish. Do
we need/want plants? Getting conflicting advise. Thanks
- Jeff

[Jeff]

The water is running pretty constantly now but I assume it will dry up
pretty much in the summer. My current plan is to circulate the water
with a pump, probably to a little stream or waterfall for asthetics.
There is no liner, actually nothing at the bottom. Is this good
enough?
I calculate about 50,000 gal. if 3 ft deep, which would be 500 fish
by your formula. We obviously don't plan on keeping that many fish. Do
we need/want plants? Getting conflicting advise. Thanks
- Jeff

[Benign Vanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> The water is running pretty constantly now but I assume it will dry up
> pretty much in the summer. My current plan is to circulate the water
> with a pump, probably to a little stream or waterfall for asthetics.
> There is no liner, actually nothing at the bottom. Is this good
> enough?
> I calculate about 50,000 gal. if 3 ft deep, which would be 500 fish
> by your formula. We obviously don't plan on keeping that many fish. Do
> we need/want plants? Getting conflicting advise. Thanks

The easist way to filter your pond, IMHO, would be plants. Now I must warn
you that filtration is a religious topic, <insert tongue in cheek>and like
all other Porgs, I am right those that disagree with my are wrong.</insert
tongue in cheek> I think for you to filter a large body of water plants
would be your best bet. Plants help clean the water, add aesthetic value,
and provide places for fish to spawn, stuff for fish to eat, etc.

The idea of circulating the water is a very good one. Aeration is very
important. Check out,
http://www.iheartmypond.com/General/AmateurSites/WildlifePonds/default.asp,
for some info on Wildlife Ponds. Sam's pond (and by pond, I mean the Sam's
ocean) is particularly impressive.


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Benign Vanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> The water is running pretty constantly now but I assume it will dry up
> pretty much in the summer. My current plan is to circulate the water
> with a pump, probably to a little stream or waterfall for asthetics.
> There is no liner, actually nothing at the bottom. Is this good
> enough?
> I calculate about 50,000 gal. if 3 ft deep, which would be 500 fish
> by your formula. We obviously don't plan on keeping that many fish. Do
> we need/want plants? Getting conflicting advise. Thanks

The easist way to filter your pond, IMHO, would be plants. Now I must warn
you that filtration is a religious topic, <insert tongue in cheek>and like
all other Porgs, I am right those that disagree with my are wrong.</insert
tongue in cheek> I think for you to filter a large body of water plants
would be your best bet. Plants help clean the water, add aesthetic value,
and provide places for fish to spawn, stuff for fish to eat, etc.

The idea of circulating the water is a very good one. Aeration is very
important. Check out,
http://www.iheartmypond.com/General/AmateurSites/WildlifePonds/default.asp,
for some info on Wildlife Ponds. Sam's pond (and by pond, I mean the Sam's
ocean) is particularly impressive.


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Jeff]

Thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to someone who has a pond
this large or larger, and has koi. I checked Sam's pond, it really is
a lake, but no koi. Ideally someone out there has a large koi pond
and I can follow his/her design rather than reinvent the wheel. Do
you know where I can find such a person?
- Jeff

[Jeff]

Thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to someone who has a pond
this large or larger, and has koi. I checked Sam's pond, it really is
a lake, but no koi. Ideally someone out there has a large koi pond
and I can follow his/her design rather than reinvent the wheel. Do
you know where I can find such a person?
- Jeff

[Benign Vanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to someone who has a pond
> this large or larger, and has koi. I checked Sam's pond, it really is
> a lake, but no koi. Ideally someone out there has a large koi pond
> and I can follow his/her design rather than reinvent the wheel. Do
> you know where I can find such a person?

There is no better place then here.

Size of the pond is not the big issue really, so don't be too concerned with
that. You have plenty of space for Koi. Your first steps should be to test
the water quality and see how habitable it is. How is the clarity? Will you
be able to see the Koi?


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Benign Vanilla]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to someone who has a pond
> this large or larger, and has koi. I checked Sam's pond, it really is
> a lake, but no koi. Ideally someone out there has a large koi pond
> and I can follow his/her design rather than reinvent the wheel. Do
> you know where I can find such a person?

There is no better place then here.

Size of the pond is not the big issue really, so don't be too concerned with
that. You have plenty of space for Koi. Your first steps should be to test
the water quality and see how habitable it is. How is the clarity? Will you
be able to see the Koi?


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Sean Dinh]

Your 1st objective is to have sufficient dissolved oxygen in the water so
that the fish and beneficial bacteria could live well. Which means you
need to aerate and circulate the water. The rest of the listed items are
there to help clear the water. The list would be longer, pending on the
type of the pond.

You need to google so that you could decide which type of pond you want,
then people here could help you to set it up.

If i had a pond that size and location, I would get a pump to
aerate/circulate the water, put in a lot on plants, then throw in a few
Koi. If you like to spend $100k like someone I met, you need much more.

Jeff wrote:

> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
> - Jeff

[Sean Dinh]

Your 1st objective is to have sufficient dissolved oxygen in the water so
that the fish and beneficial bacteria could live well. Which means you
need to aerate and circulate the water. The rest of the listed items are
there to help clear the water. The list would be longer, pending on the
type of the pond.

You need to google so that you could decide which type of pond you want,
then people here could help you to set it up.

If i had a pond that size and location, I would get a pump to
aerate/circulate the water, put in a lot on plants, then throw in a few
Koi. If you like to spend $100k like someone I met, you need much more.

Jeff wrote:

> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
> - Jeff

[RichToyBox]

Koi are raised in mud ponds in Japan, and my local importer has three mud
ponds that he rents out each summer. The koi love to root around in the mud
for bugs. Because of their love of rooting, a mud pond can look like a mud
hole. My importer does not filter his mud ponds, but does aerate
generously. I think a good waterfall for circulation and aeration would be
good, but filtration should not be an issue. The koi will spawn and could
over populate the pond in a few years, but I think that with a natural pond
like you are talking about, that predators will able to keep populations in
check.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
> - Jeff

[RichToyBox]

Koi are raised in mud ponds in Japan, and my local importer has three mud
ponds that he rents out each summer. The koi love to root around in the mud
for bugs. Because of their love of rooting, a mud pond can look like a mud
hole. My importer does not filter his mud ponds, but does aerate
generously. I think a good waterfall for circulation and aeration would be
good, but filtration should not be an issue. The koi will spawn and could
over populate the pond in a few years, but I think that with a natural pond
like you are talking about, that predators will able to keep populations in
check.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Jeff" > wrote in message
om...
> We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
> trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
> mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
> for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
> told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
> good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
> are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
> - Jeff

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I'm only seeing this post and no replies. Did anyone reply to Jeff, I'd
like to know if I'm missing posts?

Jeff, Check out www.akca.org Click on Koi Health Advisor for some indepth
material. Then come back here and ask all the questions you want. You can
also purchase books from them, if you prefer reading it that way.

Personally, if I had that much room, I'd have a plant shelf 3/4th of the
way around it at about 12"- 18" deep, 2 to 3 feet wide and then drop it to
4-5 feet, using 3 bottom drains and several skimmers. That way I could have
plants and a safe deep place for my koi. :o) ~ jan

>On 28 Apr 2004 18:16:29 -0700, (Jeff) wrote:

>We have a large spring fed pond on our property - 45x55, that we are
>trying to make into a koi pond. It has a couple of trees around it but
>mostly sunny area. We are getting conflicting advise, from the need
>for filters, liners, caves, ledges, plants vs no plants, etc to being
>told just circulate the water and throw in the fish. Where can we get
>good advise - most of the books seem to be for much smaller ponds. We
>are in Upper Makefield PA, 35 mi north of Philly Thanks
> - Jeff

(Do you know where your water quality is?)