all my Kois died. Why?

[CC]

Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is 900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

[CC]

Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but my
wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water lilies,
but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also, they
all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never been
my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to the
water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
> do have too many Koi.
>
> From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
should
> have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
>
> Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
> in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
> don't have the heart to throw them away)
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> "CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> >
> > I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
> > months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> fascinated
> > by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
> > them.
> >
> > One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
> > the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> >
> > The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> > overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> >
> > The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> >
> > I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> friends
> > and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
> a
> > knot in my stomach.
> >
> > Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
> > and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> repopulated
> > the pond.
> >
> > I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
> > add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> >
> > 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
> > pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
> > and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
> > chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> 900/1200
> > gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> >
> > I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
> > their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> pond
> > shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> >
> > I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Thank you very much
> >
> > Pond in California
> >
> >
>
>

[Ka30P]

CC wrote >>1) What did the kois died of?<<

The koi most likely died of chlorine poisoning.

As for green water, best to study the green water primer below, put together
from years of experienced rec.ponders ~


Algae fighting tips
~ Nutrients for all forms of algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized
run off, rotting plants, blown in dirt.
~ New ponds and spring ponds need time for plants to get established, algae is
quicker at getting going.
~ add plants, of any kind, in the pond. Especially underwater plants.
~ Shade is good - provided by lily pads, floating plants or artificial shade
for part of the day.
~ LOW fish stocking (20 gallons per goldfish, 100 per koi after starting with
1,000 gallons) and *not* overfeeding the fish. Too many fish and too much
feeding is probably responsible for most pea soup water, followed closely by
too much decaying plant matter, sludge and overall gunk in the water
~ adding a combination mechanical and biological filter to screen gunk and
convert fishy ammonia waste for fish health.
~ build a veggie filter, to run water through plants, as easy as floating water
hyacinth in your filter.
~ clean up dead plant matter and screen for falling leaves
in the fall.
~ water movement, occasional water changes of 10%
~ add a sludge consumer, concentrated bacteria.
many rec.ponders use http://www.united-tech.com/m-aq4u-toc.html
~ Check your pH, too high, over 8.8, or too low, under 6.4, and most higher
plant forms can't take up the nutrients.
~ building ponds with bottom drains and skimmers.
~ do not use algaecides, they only make lots of suddenly dead algae
and that will feed the next algae bloom.
~ do not worry about algae that grows on things (substrate algae) this is good
for a pond
~ gently remove string algae
~ UV lights work on suspended algae (green water) - does cost some $$.
~ patience and time ;-)



kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Sean Dinh]

Municipal water supply usually have Chloramine added. Chloramine bind with the
hemoglobin in the blood. This prevent the transport of oxygen by blood
circulation. The fish would die due to lack of oxygen. Chloramine from that
running hose killed your Koi.

CC wrote:

> One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
> the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>
> The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>
> The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>
> I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best friends
> and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling a
> knot in my stomach.
>
> Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
> and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and repopulated
> the pond.
>
> I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of?

[Just Me \Koi\]

The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
>
> I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
> months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
> by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
> them.
>
> One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
> the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>
> The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>
> The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>
> I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
> and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling
a
> knot in my stomach.
>
> Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
> and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
> the pond.
>
> I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
> add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
>
> 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
> pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
> and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
> chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
> gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
>
> I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
> their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
> shops to uphold her way of doing things.
>
> I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Pond in California
>
>

[CC]

Hi, I must have been very tired last night. To the gentleman in Ontario
airport, sorry. I confused your post with someone else and I responded
accordingly. Of course you are in california. Not Canada. I put together
your post with someone else's.

Also, thank you for the responses. This morning I re- measured the pond, and
it is far bigger than I thought (I told you the American system is hard for
me, even after 20 years) It looks like it is at least double that and
probably deeper, water can be deceiving, the shape does not help either, it
goes around the bend.

The response of the hose stirring out the bottom makes the most sense with
my eyewitness evaluation. The hose had a hi-powered nozzle I was using to
blast dirt off the house, and I was called inside but I forgot to shut it
off. The pressure moved it toward the pond, where it fell in, and stirred
the bottom clean.

Whoever my pond didn't know what they were doing, as an example, the pond
sits on a slope, but they measured the pond height not with a level, but
from the ground up. Also, they had all the filters and goodies, but they
were not installed, as if they got tired and abandoned the project. I know
that the garden was made as a Masters degree project in landscaping by the
previous owner. She must have run out of time or money, or both.

Thank you for your help.







"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
> The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
> do have too many Koi.
>
> From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
should
> have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
>
> Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
> in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
> don't have the heart to throw them away)
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> "CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> >
> > I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
> > months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> fascinated
> > by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
> > them.
> >
> > One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
> > the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> >
> > The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> > overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> >
> > The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> >
> > I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> friends
> > and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
> a
> > knot in my stomach.
> >
> > Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
> > and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> repopulated
> > the pond.
> >
> > I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
> > add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> >
> > 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
> > pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
> > and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
> > chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> 900/1200
> > gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> >
> > I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
> > their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> pond
> > shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> >
> > I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Thank you very much
> >
> > Pond in California
> >
> >
>
>

[Mickey]

Well if I am reading this correctly you pond is 12 foot x 3 foot x 3 foot
which equals 808 gallons.

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/pondcalculator.html


"CC" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
>
> I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
> months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> fascinated
> by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
> them.
>
> One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
> the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>
> The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>
> The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>
> I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> friends
> and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling
> a
> knot in my stomach.
>
> Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
> and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> repopulated
> the pond.
>
> I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
> add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
>
> 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
> pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
> and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
> chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> 900/1200
> gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
>
> I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
> their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> pond
> shops to uphold her way of doing things.
>
> I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Pond in California
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!

Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
knockout punch.

Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it, since
I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in the
past!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but
my
> wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
lilies,
> but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
> you.
> I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
> too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,
they
> all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
> alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
> the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
>
> Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
> small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
> Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
been
> my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
> conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
> larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
> not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
>
> I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
> here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
> helpful.
>
> As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to
the
> water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
> water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.
>
> I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
>
> CC
>
>
>
>
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond
you
> > do have too many Koi.
> >
> > From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
> should
> > have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
> >
> > Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
Airport
> > in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
and
> > don't have the heart to throw them away)
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > "CC" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> > >
> > > I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
> for
> > > months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> > fascinated
> > > by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
enjoying
> > > them.
> > >
> > > One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
> of
> > > the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> > >
> > > The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> > > overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> > >
> > > The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> > >
> > > I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> > friends
> > > and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
> feeling
> > a
> > > knot in my stomach.
> > >
> > > Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
> out
> > > and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> > repopulated
> > > the pond.
> > >
> > > I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
> must
> > > add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> > >
> > > 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
> the
> > > pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
> pond
> > > and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
> the
> > > chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> > 900/1200
> > > gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> > >
> > > I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
> do
> > > their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> > pond
> > > shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> > >
> > > I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> > >
> > > Ideas?
> > >
> > > Thank you very much
> > >
> > > Pond in California
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

If it is only 808 gallons, then may I suggest nice looking goldfish?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mickey" > wrote in message
...
> Well if I am reading this correctly you pond is 12 foot x 3 foot x 3 foot
> which equals 808 gallons.
>
> http://www.aquariumpharm.com/pondcalculator.html
>
>
> "CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> >
> > I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
> > months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> > fascinated
> > by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
> > them.
> >
> > One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
> > the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> >
> > The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> > overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> >
> > The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> >
> > I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> > friends
> > and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
> > a
> > knot in my stomach.
> >
> > Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
> > and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> > repopulated
> > the pond.
> >
> > I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
> > add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> >
> > 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
> > pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
> > and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
> > chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> > 900/1200
> > gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> >
> > I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
> > their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> > pond
> > shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> >
> > I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Thank you very much
> >
> > Pond in California
> >
> >
>
>

[Mark and Kim Smith]

When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
vacated area?!?

Just Me "Koi" wrote:

>When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
>deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!
>
>Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
>water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
>knockout punch.
>
>Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it, since
>I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in the
>past!
>
>--
>_______________________________________
>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
>"CC" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but
>>
>>
>my
>
>
>>wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
>>
>>
>lilies,
>
>
>>but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
>>you.
>>I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
>>too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,
>>
>>
>they
>
>
>>all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
>>alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
>>the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
>>
>>Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
>>small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
>>Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
>>
>>
>been
>
>
>>my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
>>conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
>>larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
>>not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
>>
>>I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
>>here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
>>helpful.
>>
>>As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
>>water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.
>>
>>I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
>>
>>CC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>>The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond
>>>
>>>
>you
>
>
>>>do have too many Koi.
>>>
>>>From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
>>>
>>>
>>should
>>
>>
>>>have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
>>>
>>>Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
>>>
>>>
>Airport
>
>
>>>in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
>>>
>>>
>and
>
>
>>>don't have the heart to throw them away)
>>>
>>>--
>>>_______________________________________
>>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>>> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>>
>>> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>>
>>>"CC" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
>>>>
>>>>I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
>>>>
>>>>
>>for
>>
>>
>>>>months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>fascinated
>>>
>>>
>>>>by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
>>>>
>>>>
>enjoying
>
>
>>>>them.
>>>>
>>>>One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
>>>>
>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>>the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>>>>
>>>>The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
>>>>overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>>>>
>>>>The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>>>>
>>>>I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>friends
>>>
>>>
>>>>and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
>>>>
>>>>
>>feeling
>>
>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>knot in my stomach.
>>>>
>>>>Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
>>>>
>>>>
>>out
>>
>>
>>>>and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>repopulated
>>>
>>>
>>>>the pond.
>>>>
>>>>I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
>>>>
>>>>
>>must
>>
>>
>>>>add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
>>>>
>>>>2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
>>>>
>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
>>>>
>>>>
>>pond
>>
>>
>>>>and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
>>>>
>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>900/1200
>>>
>>>
>>>>gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
>>>>
>>>>I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
>>>>
>>>>
>>do
>>
>>
>>>>their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
>>>>
>>>>
>>>pond
>>>
>>>
>>>>shops to uphold her way of doing things.
>>>>
>>>>I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
>>>>
>>>>Ideas?
>>>>
>>>>Thank you very much
>>>>
>>>>Pond in California
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[GrannyGrump]

>I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
>add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

Chlorine probably.

Put the fish in a container of the water from their pond, then clean
the pond. Fill, and then put de-chlorinator in the newly filled pond,
and then put the fish back in when the time is up for the
de-chlorinator's purpose. The bottle will tell you when it has done
its job.

[jammer]

Dont run hose water in the pond with dechlorinating it!

Get rid of all but 1-2 koi

I am very sorry for your loss.









On Sun, 9 May 2004 00:21:19 +0200, "CC" > wrote:

>Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry
(but my
>wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
lilies,
>but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
meeting
>you.
>I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
seem
>too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water.
Also, they
>all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I
agonized
>alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond
due to
>the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
>
>Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small,
very
>small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
>Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have
never been
>my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less.
the
>conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
>larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but
I do
>not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
>
>I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
came
>here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
>helpful.
>
>As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due
to the
>water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding
the
>water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
pond.
>
>I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
>
>CC
>
>
>
>
>
>"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
>> The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your
pond you
>> do have too many Koi.
>>
>> From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons
you
>should
>> have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a
hawk!
>>
>> Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
Airport
>> in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many
plants, and
>> don't have the heart to throw them away)
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________
>> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>
>> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>
>> "CC" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
>> >
>> > I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left
abandoned
>for
>> > months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
>> fascinated
>> > by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
enjoying
>> > them.
>> >
>> > One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward
the end
>of
>> > the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>> >
>> > The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around
the
>> > overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>> >
>> > The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>> >
>> > I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my
best
>> friends
>> > and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
>feeling
>> a
>> > knot in my stomach.
>> >
>> > Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I)
went
>out
>> > and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
>> repopulated
>> > the pond.
>> >
>> > I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I
feel I
>must
>> > add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
>> >
>> > 2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather
have
>the
>> > pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying
the
>pond
>> > and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac
and all
>the
>> > chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond
is
>> 900/1200
>> > gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered
pumps.
>> >
>> > I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and
pumps
>do
>> > their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions
from
>> pond
>> > shops to uphold her way of doing things.
>> >
>> > I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken
again.
>> >
>> > Ideas?
>> >
>> > Thank you very much
>> >
>> > Pond in California
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[CC]

Hi, I am the OP here, under a different name. I use google and another
newsreader and the posts look very different and it is confusing,
sorry for the mess I have made of all the posts and relative answers.

To recap:

The pond where the fish died was abandoned for months. The first week
I didn't even know there were fish in it. All the pumps but one were
disconnected and the one that was working did so poorly.

After reading all your kind answers, I believe the fish died of
poisoning from gasses released by the pond's bottom. The chlorine
level (my first suspicion) was fine, our water is very low in chlorine
(actually, no chlorine was found in the test) and I have had it tested
both before and after the accident. Due to the shabby constructions
and many leaks, the previous owners had a hose refilling the pond
every night with the irrigation system. That had gone on for months
without harming the fish.

As I said, not knowing better we went out and bought 12 baby kois, we
felt we had to replenish the once that died. Some are growing and some
are still very little. When they'll grow too big, my neighbor will
take them as she converted her swimming pool into a very large pond
(pool is half size Olympic). So I am not worried about them growing to
monster sizes.

I am still curious about the standards used to define populations of
koi Vs. pond capacity: My kois are very happy and at their present
size they hardly seem to populate the pond, even if they grow to the
sizes of their predecessors I don't see a problem.

I know have 3 pumps with biological filters and a supply of water
conditioners good enough to treat a small lake, plus I have made a
waterfall going from a pump into a large (very large) pot that was a
water garden once, there I put a skimmer pump to leave the residues at
the bottom and pump the water back into the pond. It looks pretty and
according to articles I read, it should act as a potent bio-filter.

Basically, I turned this pond into a very large aquarium. And, no
matter what, I am not getting rid of any of my Koi, unless they grow
big enough to beat me up.

My goal is not so much to have the prettiest pond around, but to host
the fish in a way they are happy and healthy.

One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in general,
grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth? If it is not, than
how do you know what fish will grow large and what will not? It seems
to me that measuring Gallons=Fish# is not accurate because it doesn't
take into consideration how big the fish is. 10 baby koi get lost in
my pond, but if I were to get the monsters I have seen at my local
pond shop, one of them alone wouldn't be able to turn around.
Anyway, thank you for all your help

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in general,
>grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth?

Yes, that one is a myth, little food, high nitrAtes (poor water quality)
will stunt a fish of the carp variety.

>If it is not, than
>how do you know what fish will grow large and what will not? It seems
>to me that measuring Gallons=Fish# is not accurate

It's not really, just a safe rule of thumb, especially for the novice. In
actuality it's the size of your filter that determines number.
Unfortunately, if your filter dies, power goes out, etc., those who have
more fish/gallon lose. Not to mention, smaller pond, more stress on the
fish when they get bigger due to crowding.

CC, you seem to be on the right track now. Regarding the chlorine it could
have gased off or detoxed on the pond bottom debris by the time you tested
it, doesn't mean it wasn't high coming out of the hose. Most municipalities
are suppose to have chlorine levels out of the tap at 2ppm, this is plenty
enough to fried fish gills.

Do you have the required tests kits, ammonia, nitrite, pH & KH? A pond
thermometer to know the water temp? These are must have's in my book.
You'll have to watch your water quality as chlorine also kills the
bio-filter, and a bio-filter takes 4-6 weeks to get up to snuff. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Just Me \Koi\]

How are you making the link between Rancho Cucamonga and Canada? Did I goof
and tell a lie somewhere?

If my Ontario Airport confused the issue, then my apologies. The Ontario
Airport I referenced is in California, east of Los Angeles.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
...
> When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
> you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
> vacated area?!?
>
> Just Me "Koi" wrote:
>
> >When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
> >deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!
> >
> >Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
> >water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
> >knockout punch.
> >
> >Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it,
since
> >I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in
the
> >past!
> >
> >--
> >_______________________________________
> >"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> >"CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> >>Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but
> >>
> >>
> >my
> >
> >
> >>wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
> >>
> >>
> >lilies,
> >
> >
> >>but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
meeting
> >>you.
> >>I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
seem
> >>too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,
> >>
> >>
> >they
> >
> >
> >>all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
> >>alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due
to
> >>the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
> >>
> >>Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
> >>small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
> >>Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
> >>
> >>
> >been
> >
> >
> >>my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
> >>conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
> >>larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I
do
> >>not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
> >>
> >>I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
came
> >>here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
> >>helpful.
> >>
> >>As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to
> >>
> >>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
> >>water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
pond.
> >>
> >>I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
> >>
> >>CC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>
> >>>The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond
> >>>
> >>>
> >you
> >
> >
> >>>do have too many Koi.
> >>>
> >>>From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>should
> >>
> >>
> >>>have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
> >>>
> >>>Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
> >>>
> >>>
> >Airport
> >
> >
> >>>in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
> >>>
> >>>
> >and
> >
> >
> >>>don't have the heart to throw them away)
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>_______________________________________
> >>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> >>> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >>>
> >>> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >>>
> >>>"CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> >>>>
> >>>>I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>for
> >>
> >>
> >>>>months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>fascinated
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >enjoying
> >
> >
> >>>>them.
> >>>>
> >>>>One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>of
> >>
> >>
> >>>>the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> >>>>
> >>>>The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> >>>>overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> >>>>
> >>>>The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> >>>>
> >>>>I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>friends
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>feeling
> >>
> >>
> >>>a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>knot in my stomach.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>out
> >>
> >>
> >>>>and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>repopulated
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the pond.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>must
> >>
> >>
> >>>>add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> >>>>
> >>>>2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>pond
> >>
> >>
> >>>>and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>900/1200
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> >>>>
> >>>>I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>do
> >>
> >>
> >>>>their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>pond
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> >>>>
> >>>>I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> >>>>
> >>>>Ideas?
> >>>>
> >>>>Thank you very much
> >>>>
> >>>>Pond in California
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Mark and Kim Smith]

I made no link whatsoever. Read the threads. CC said "Thank you for
your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but my wife is
from Vancouver BC).", not me. I know where ONT is as the pattern
usually flies over my house. For that matter, I know where Cable and
Chino are. Cable being the one that lost an airplane over your town
recently.

So, no, you didn't lie. So no need to apologize. CC was confused by
ONT and the northern place!

BTW, I visited your link. Nice pond set up you have!! Everything
"flows" nicely to the eye!

Just Me "Koi" wrote:

>How are you making the link between Rancho Cucamonga and Canada? Did I goof
>and tell a lie somewhere?
>
>If my Ontario Airport confused the issue, then my apologies. The Ontario
>Airport I referenced is in California, east of Los Angeles.
>
>--
>_______________________________________
>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
>"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
>>you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
>>vacated area?!?
>>
>>Just Me "Koi" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
>>>deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!
>>>
>>>Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
>>>water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
>>>knockout punch.
>>>
>>>Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it,
>>>
>>>
>since
>
>
>>>I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>past!
>>>
>>>--
>>>_______________________________________
>>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>>>like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>>
>>>http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>>
>>>"CC" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>my
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>lilies,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
>>>>
>>>>
>meeting
>
>
>>>>you.
>>>>I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
>>>>
>>>>
>seem
>
>
>>>>too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>they
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
>>>>alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due
>>>>
>>>>
>to
>
>
>>>>the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
>>>>
>>>>Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
>>>>small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
>>>>Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>been
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
>>>>conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
>>>>larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I
>>>>
>>>>
>do
>
>
>>>>not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
>>>>
>>>>I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
>>>>
>>>>
>came
>
>
>>>>here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
>>>>helpful.
>>>>
>>>>As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
>>>>water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
>>>>
>>>>
>pond.
>
>
>>>>I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
>>>>
>>>>CC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>do have too many Koi.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>should
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
>>>>>
>>>>>Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Airport
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>don't have the heart to throw them away)
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>_______________________________________
>>>>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>>>>>like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>>>>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>>>>
>>>>>http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>>>>
>>>>>"CC" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>fascinated
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>enjoying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
>>>>>>overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>friends
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>feeling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>knot in my stomach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>out
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>repopulated
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the pond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>must
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>pond
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>900/1200
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>do
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>pond
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>shops to uphold her way of doing things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you very much
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pond in California
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

chlorine in your city water. if you are using city water, it has enough chlorine to
kill your fish. how much is in your water varies day by day.
organics inactivate the chlorine, so adding a little at a time(PO) the organics were
removing the chlorine, but once the organics were gone, the chlorine killed the fish.

it is a myth in that water that is like a sewer will stunt the growth of fish, but
then they are unhealthy fish too and the first disease comes around they die.
Ingrid



(CC) wrote:
The chlorine
>level (my first suspicion) was fine, our water is very low in chlorine
the previous owners had a hose refilling the pond
>every night with the irrigation system. That had gone on for months
>without harming the fish.
>One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in general,
>grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[jammer]

and do NOT EVER use chlorinated water on tadpoles!





On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:39:38 GMT, wrote:

>chlorine in your city water. if you are using city water, it has
enough chlorine to
>kill your fish. how much is in your water varies day by day.
>organics inactivate the chlorine, so adding a little at a time(PO)
the organics were
>removing the chlorine, but once the organics were gone, the chlorine
killed the fish.
>
>it is a myth in that water that is like a sewer will stunt the growth
of fish, but
>then they are unhealthy fish too and the first disease comes around
they die.
>Ingrid
>
>
>
(CC) wrote:
> The chlorine
>>level (my first suspicion) was fine, our water is very low in
chlorine
> the previous owners had a hose refilling the pond
>>every night with the irrigation system. That had gone on for months
>>without harming the fish.
>>One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in
general,
>>grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth?
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Just Me \Koi\]

Thanks. May I be bold enough to suspect that you live in Chino/Chino Hills?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I made no link whatsoever. Read the threads. CC said "Thank you for
> your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but my wife is
> from Vancouver BC).", not me. I know where ONT is as the pattern
> usually flies over my house. For that matter, I know where Cable and
> Chino are. Cable being the one that lost an airplane over your town
> recently.
>
> So, no, you didn't lie. So no need to apologize. CC was confused by
> ONT and the northern place!
>
> BTW, I visited your link. Nice pond set up you have!! Everything
> "flows" nicely to the eye!
>
> Just Me "Koi" wrote:
>
> >How are you making the link between Rancho Cucamonga and Canada? Did I
goof
> >and tell a lie somewhere?
> >
> >If my Ontario Airport confused the issue, then my apologies. The Ontario
> >Airport I referenced is in California, east of Los Angeles.
> >
> >--
> >_______________________________________
> >"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> >"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> >>When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
> >>you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
> >>vacated area?!?
> >>
> >>Just Me "Koi" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release
some
> >>>deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!
> >>>
> >>>Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned
tap
> >>>water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
> >>>knockout punch.
> >>>
> >>>Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it,
> >>>
> >>>
> >since
> >
> >
> >>>I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in
> >>>
> >>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>past!
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>_______________________________________
> >>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> >>>like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >>>
> >>>http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >>>
> >>>"CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry
(but
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>my
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>lilies,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >meeting
> >
> >
> >>>>you.
> >>>>I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >seem
> >
> >
> >>>>too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water.
Also,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>they
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I
agonized
> >>>>alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond
due
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >to
> >
> >
> >>>>the hose left in and the filter not functioning.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small,
very
> >>>>small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
> >>>>Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>been
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less.
the
> >>>>conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
> >>>>larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >do
> >
> >
> >>>>not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.
> >>>>
> >>>>I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >came
> >
> >
> >>>>here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
> >>>>helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>>As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due
to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding
the
> >>>>water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >pond.
> >
> >
> >>>>I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.
> >>>>
> >>>>CC
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your
pond
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>do have too many Koi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>should
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>Airport
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>don't have the heart to throw them away)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>_______________________________________
> >>>>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> >>>>>like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >>>>>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"CC" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left
abandoned
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>for
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>fascinated
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>enjoying
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the
end
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
> >>>>>>overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>friends
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>feeling
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>knot in my stomach.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I)
went
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>out
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>repopulated
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the pond.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>must
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather
have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying
the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>pond
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and
all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>900/1200
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and
pumps
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>do
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions
from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>pond
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>shops to uphold her way of doing things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Ideas?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thank you very much
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Pond in California
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Nope, you went too far! Pomona. Nestled next to Claremont and
Montclair. A quiet little neighborhood that doesn't conjure up the
images that most folks would associate with the name "Pomona." Although
I guess the local government is trying to turn that around with a
"Pomona's Most Beautiful Home" contest. I like to call my area
"Claremont Heights!" If the folks on the west side of Pomona can call
their area "Phillips Ranch", then I figure I can call my area what I
want. It's still Pomona, right??!? I'm not to thrilled with the public
schools, but I call my little plot of land "home."

I've had to put the pond portion of my backyard project on hold for
the moment as the excavation part of my side yard is complete. Time for
some Class II fill and some cobblestone pavers. Then back to fill dirt
for the pond area. Also, I'm thinking of some facades for that ugly
block wall that is the back portion of my pond. Maybe a bait shack
complete with a stub out pier to give some shade over the water??
Complete with manila rope? Uh-oh, the gears are turning!! The look
will fit with the water wheel / grist mill / pump house. Pics to date
of the progress. From beginning. http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond.htm
Looks like time for more pics!! I have more cement work in the morning.

I gotta tell ya! I wish I had the yard area you have!

Just Me "Koi" wrote:

>Thanks. May I be bold enough to suspect that you live in Chino/Chino Hills?
>
>--
>_______________________________________
>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
>"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

You've made great progress!

I live in Alta Loma by the street that has the annual Xmas lights!

Big yard has it's blessing, and it's curse! By the time you finish one end,
the other end is already in need of attention! It never ends!

I am currently doing a project at the Claremont Colleges. Sontag Hall for
Harvey Mudd!

Later!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Nope, you went too far! Pomona. Nestled next to Claremont and
> Montclair. A quiet little neighborhood that doesn't conjure up the
> images that most folks would associate with the name "Pomona." Although
> I guess the local government is trying to turn that around with a
> "Pomona's Most Beautiful Home" contest. I like to call my area
> "Claremont Heights!" If the folks on the west side of Pomona can call
> their area "Phillips Ranch", then I figure I can call my area what I
> want. It's still Pomona, right??!? I'm not to thrilled with the public
> schools, but I call my little plot of land "home."
>
> I've had to put the pond portion of my backyard project on hold for
> the moment as the excavation part of my side yard is complete. Time for
> some Class II fill and some cobblestone pavers. Then back to fill dirt
> for the pond area. Also, I'm thinking of some facades for that ugly
> block wall that is the back portion of my pond. Maybe a bait shack
> complete with a stub out pier to give some shade over the water??
> Complete with manila rope? Uh-oh, the gears are turning!! The look
> will fit with the water wheel / grist mill / pump house. Pics to date
> of the progress. From beginning. http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond.htm
> Looks like time for more pics!! I have more cement work in the morning.
>
> I gotta tell ya! I wish I had the yard area you have!
>
> Just Me "Koi" wrote:
>
> >Thanks. May I be bold enough to suspect that you live in Chino/Chino
Hills?
> >
> >--
> >_______________________________________
> >"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> >The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> >"Mark and Kim Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> >
>