big tadpoles died this morning

[Mike Patterson]

This morning about 9:00 I went out to check the pond & feed the fish,
everything looked good.

About 10:30 I glanced out the window and saw a couple of what I
thought were dead fish floating, so rushed out and found two tadpoles
floating heads up, tails down. They were about 3-4 inches long, with
small back legs and no front ones, though one of them had small
nodules where the front legs would have formed.

Their "faces" were coated in a whitish material, and they weren't
moving at all. I examined them and added them to the compost pile.

Immediately checked the water quality, everything was "normal" to
"ideal". Water temp is a bit higher than I'd like, running about 76-78
Fahrenheit. Not much I can do about it. Hoping the water hyacinth will
help shade it when it grows a bit more.

About 2 hours later, a third dead tad showed up, same story, only it
looked like the skin on his "face" & head had been stripped off
somehow. Eyes whited over like the others. Very odd.

The fish seem to be fine, hanging around under the water hyacinth,
nibbling at the roots, chasing each other around a bit, etc. they'll
come up to feed when I toss pellets in, none seem to be discolored or
anything untoward.

Any suggestions from the group? Are tads subject to "ich"? That's what
it looked like more than anything else in my experience.

TIA
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Andy Hill]

Mike Patterson > wrote:
>This morning about 9:00 I went out to check the pond & feed the fish,
>everything looked good.
>
>About 10:30 I glanced out the window and saw a couple of what I
>thought were dead fish floating, so rushed out and found two tadpoles
>floating heads up, tails down. They were about 3-4 inches long, with
>small back legs and no front ones, though one of them had small
>nodules where the front legs would have formed.
>
>Their "faces" were coated in a whitish material, and they weren't
>moving at all. I examined them and added them to the compost pile.
>
>Immediately checked the water quality, everything was "normal" to
>"ideal". Water temp is a bit higher than I'd like, running about 76-78
>Fahrenheit. Not much I can do about it. Hoping the water hyacinth will
>help shade it when it grows a bit more.
>
>About 2 hours later, a third dead tad showed up, same story, only it
>looked like the skin on his "face" & head had been stripped off
>somehow. Eyes whited over like the others. Very odd.
>
>The fish seem to be fine, hanging around under the water hyacinth,
>nibbling at the roots, chasing each other around a bit, etc. they'll
>come up to feed when I toss pellets in, none seem to be discolored or
>anything untoward.
>
>Any suggestions from the group? Are tads subject to "ich"? That's what
>it looked like more than anything else in my experience.
>
>TIA
>Mike
>Mike Patterson
>Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
>
Doesn't sound a bit like ick -- that's usually small white spots, like salt
grains.

Sounds an awful lot like Columnaris. Check it against some pictures on the
web, and if it matches, start antibiotic treatment ASAP -- your fish are next.

[Ka30P]

As a whole frogs and tadpoles are more sensitive to poor water conditions and
anything that may show up via wind drift, birdy business, runoff, etc.


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[[email protected]]

could there be something trying to eat the taddies, like dragonfly larvae and once
wounded they die and get fuzzed over? Ingrid

(Ka30P) wrote:

>
>As a whole frogs and tadpoles are more sensitive to poor water conditions and
>anything that may show up via wind drift, birdy business, runoff, etc.
>
>
>kathy :-)
><A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Mike Patterson]

Dunno, would a dragonfly larva attack a tadpole 3 inches long?


On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:22:21 GMT, wrote:

>could there be something trying to eat the taddies, like dragonfly larvae and once
>wounded they die and get fuzzed over? Ingrid
>
(Ka30P) wrote:
>
>>
>>As a whole frogs and tadpoles are more sensitive to poor water conditions and
>>anything that may show up via wind drift, birdy business, runoff, etc.
>>
>>
>>kathy :-)
>><A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Ka30P]

If not dragonfly nymphs then the
great diving beetle or water bug,
Either of those could take down a
three inch tadpole.
Bug would suck out tasty taddy
parts, beetle would chew it up.
Either one may have lost hold of
its prey. And they fly and
may have arrived at your pond via
air freight.




kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Mike Patterson]

On 11 May 2004 01:47:58 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:

>
>If not dragonfly nymphs then the
>great diving beetle or water bug,
>Either of those could take down a
>three inch tadpole.
>Bug would suck out tasty taddy
>parts, beetle would chew it up.
>Either one may have lost hold of
>its prey. And they fly and
>may have arrived at your pond via
>air freight.
>
>
>
>
>kathy :-)
><A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

Hmmmm, very interesting!

Found another one this morning, only this one didn't have all the
white stuff on it. No visible damage or cause of death.

I did notice one yesterday evening that was having trouble (today's
dead one I guess), and was being harassed by a goldfish. Tried to
catch it so I could put it in my bog pond to see if that would help
it, but it went deep and I never saw it again.

While typing this I looked out the window and spotted yet another one.
They seem to start dropping when I feed the fish. I wonder if the fish
food could be contaminated in some way that is killing tads but not
bothering the fish.

Hmmmm, very frustrating!

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Ka30P]

Another consideration:

>>DEADLY DISEASE A disease might also cause the mutations. The disease is
carried and spread by a tiny worm.
The worm is a parasite, a plant or animal that lives off of other creatures. If
a worm enters a frog's body, it can give the disease to the frog. The disease
causes extra or missing limbs in the frog's young.
The disease-carrying worm seems to be spreading. As the worm moves into new
lakes and ponds, it brings the disease with it. That means more frogs can catch
it.
Frogs are not the only creatures that can catch the disease. Some other
amphibians, including toads and salamanders, can get it as well.<<


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Robyn Rhudy]

Perhaps Chytrid fungus.

See http://www.fishpondinfo.com/frog3.htm#die under Chytrid fungus and do
internet searches.

On Mon, 10 May 2004, Mike Patterson wrote:

> This morning about 9:00 I went out to check the pond & feed the fish,
> everything looked good.
>
> About 10:30 I glanced out the window and saw a couple of what I
> thought were dead fish floating, so rushed out and found two tadpoles
> floating heads up, tails down. They were about 3-4 inches long, with
> small back legs and no front ones, though one of them had small
> nodules where the front legs would have formed.
>
> Their "faces" were coated in a whitish material, and they weren't
> moving at all. I examined them and added them to the compost pile.
>
> Immediately checked the water quality, everything was "normal" to
> "ideal". Water temp is a bit higher than I'd like, running about 76-78
> Fahrenheit. Not much I can do about it. Hoping the water hyacinth will
> help shade it when it grows a bit more.
>
> About 2 hours later, a third dead tad showed up, same story, only it
> looked like the skin on his "face" & head had been stripped off
> somehow. Eyes whited over like the others. Very odd.
>
> The fish seem to be fine, hanging around under the water hyacinth,
> nibbling at the roots, chasing each other around a bit, etc. they'll
> come up to feed when I toss pellets in, none seem to be discolored or
> anything untoward.
>
> Any suggestions from the group? Are tads subject to "ich"? That's what
> it looked like more than anything else in my experience.
>
> TIA
> Mike
> Mike Patterson
> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
>

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[Mike Patterson]

Wow, that's some nasty stuff.

So far this looks most like what I'm seeing, the skin being dead and
sloughing off near the mouth and underbelly.

Apparently there is no recommended treatment, or at least I haven't
found any yet. I've sent an email to the state Wildlife people,
hopefully they'll respond.

Thanks to everyone for the info.

Mike


On Tue, 11 May 2004 11:47:24 -0400, Robyn Rhudy >
wrote:

>
>Perhaps Chytrid fungus.
>
>See http://www.fishpondinfo.com/frog3.htm#die under Chytrid fungus and do
>internet searches.
>
>On Mon, 10 May 2004, Mike Patterson wrote:
>
>> This morning about 9:00 I went out to check the pond & feed the fish,
>> everything looked good.
>>
>> About 10:30 I glanced out the window and saw a couple of what I
>> thought were dead fish floating, so rushed out and found two tadpoles
>> floating heads up, tails down. They were about 3-4 inches long, with
>> small back legs and no front ones, though one of them had small
>> nodules where the front legs would have formed.
>>
>> Their "faces" were coated in a whitish material, and they weren't
>> moving at all. I examined them and added them to the compost pile.
>>
>> Immediately checked the water quality, everything was "normal" to
>> "ideal". Water temp is a bit higher than I'd like, running about 76-78
>> Fahrenheit. Not much I can do about it. Hoping the water hyacinth will
>> help shade it when it grows a bit more.
>>
>> About 2 hours later, a third dead tad showed up, same story, only it
>> looked like the skin on his "face" & head had been stripped off
>> somehow. Eyes whited over like the others. Very odd.
>>
>> The fish seem to be fine, hanging around under the water hyacinth,
>> nibbling at the roots, chasing each other around a bit, etc. they'll
>> come up to feed when I toss pellets in, none seem to be discolored or
>> anything untoward.
>>
>> Any suggestions from the group? Are tads subject to "ich"? That's what
>> it looked like more than anything else in my experience.
>>
>> TIA
>> Mike
>> Mike Patterson
>> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
>>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Important Notice! Robyn's web site has moved from
>http://userpages.umbc.edu/~rrhudy1/ to http://www.fishpondinfo.com. This
>e-mail as well as the old site (which refers to the new site) will be
>deleted on 9/24/04 by UMBC (I have no say in it). After that date,
>please use the e-mail of instead of this e-mail.
>Please spread the word that my site has moved. Thanks.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Chemist, preservationist, animal lover, aquarist, and ponder. -
>Extensive web pages on animals, fish, and ponds. -
>http://www.fishpondinfo.com
>Free pond newsletter - sign up at my web site -
>Finally! Buy Robyn's Pond Book at www.1stbooks.com -
>-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Ka30P]

Mike wrote >>I've sent an email to the state Wildlife people,
hopefully they'll respond.<<

Let us know what happens!


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Jim and Phyllis Hurley]

You don't by any chance have koi or something that is trying to eat them? A
facial kiss could start damage that would lead to fungus.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"Mike Patterson" > wrote in message
...
> This morning about 9:00 I went out to check the pond & feed the fish,
> everything looked good.
>
> About 10:30 I glanced out the window and saw a couple of what I
> thought were dead fish floating, so rushed out and found two tadpoles
> floating heads up, tails down. They were about 3-4 inches long, with
> small back legs and no front ones, though one of them had small
> nodules where the front legs would have formed.
>
> Their "faces" were coated in a whitish material, and they weren't
> moving at all. I examined them and added them to the compost pile.
>
> Immediately checked the water quality, everything was "normal" to
> "ideal". Water temp is a bit higher than I'd like, running about 76-78
> Fahrenheit. Not much I can do about it. Hoping the water hyacinth will
> help shade it when it grows a bit more.
>
> About 2 hours later, a third dead tad showed up, same story, only it
> looked like the skin on his "face" & head had been stripped off
> somehow. Eyes whited over like the others. Very odd.
>
> The fish seem to be fine, hanging around under the water hyacinth,
> nibbling at the roots, chasing each other around a bit, etc. they'll
> come up to feed when I toss pellets in, none seem to be discolored or
> anything untoward.
>
> Any suggestions from the group? Are tads subject to "ich"? That's what
> it looked like more than anything else in my experience.
>
> TIA
> Mike
> Mike Patterson
> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[Mike Patterson]

On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:15:45 -0500, "Jim and Phyllis Hurley"
> wrote:

>You don't by any chance have koi or something that is trying to eat them? A
>facial kiss could start damage that would lead to fungus.
>
>Jim

I have about 8 goldfish and 6 or 7 shiners - "type unknown" in there,
so it's possible.

Yesterday evening I treated the pond with an anti-fungal I bought at
the local nursery.

If there are any tads left, maybe that'll help. I figured it might
help, and wasn't likely to hurt.



Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.