Live Rock or bioballs

[Rick]

I'm setting up a new tank (55 gal hex) and I have not had a tank setup
for 10-12 years. As there are lots of new products on the market maybe
some of you could help me with some questions

1.While at a local aquarium store buying some goods the sales person
told me to use live rock and not use bioballs in my ehiem, just use
the basic filter media along with chemi-pure in the ehiem.

2. What is the best way to get the nitrate cycle started and how long
will this take


3. Do I really need protein skimmer right away?



4. I have 2 ehiem canister filters model 2015 approx 1 gal each, do I
need to use both? Using 2 an advantage or mabe a disadvantage? Use
bioballs or live rock

[Rick]

Because of the size, you won't be able to get enough large pieces of LR in
your canister. The reason for the LR is so the water can go deep into the
large rocks to where anerobic (without oxygen) bacteria live. These bacteria
will remove nitrAte from your system.

If it was me, I would just go with the bio-balls in the filter.

Ninety percent of people with frown on such filters as this canister or a
wet/dry trickle filter because they think they are nitrAte factories. But I
have a wet/dry on my 46 gallon reef and it is awesome. I dont have a single
trace of ammonia, nitrIte nor nitrAte.

Personally I think it's all a bunch of wives tales.

-Rick
"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm setting up a new tank (55 gal hex) and I have not had a tank setup
> for 10-12 years. As there are lots of new products on the market maybe
> some of you could help me with some questions
>
> 1.While at a local aquarium store buying some goods the sales person
> told me to use live rock and not use bioballs in my ehiem, just use
> the basic filter media along with chemi-pure in the ehiem.
>
> 2. What is the best way to get the nitrate cycle started and how long
> will this take
>
>
> 3. Do I really need protein skimmer right away?
>
>
>
> 4. I have 2 ehiem canister filters model 2015 approx 1 gal each, do I
> need to use both? Using 2 an advantage or mabe a disadvantage? Use
> bioballs or live rock

[BiG_Orange]

> Personally I think it's all a bunch of wives tales.
>

More like marketing scams to keep the pet industry alive to support all
these oversized pet stores.

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

> Because of the size, you won't be able to get enough large pieces of LR
> in your canister. The reason for the LR is so the water can go deep into
> the large rocks to where anerobic (without oxygen) bacteria live. These
> bacteria will remove nitrAte from your system.
>
> If it was me, I would just go with the bio-balls in the filter.
>
> Ninety percent of people with frown on such filters as this canister or
> a wet/dry trickle filter because they think they are nitrAte factories.
> But I have a wet/dry on my 46 gallon reef and it is awesome. I dont have
> a single trace of ammonia, nitrIte nor nitrAte.
>
> Personally I think it's all a bunch of wives tales.

So no protein skimmer? I have a wet/dry and an Eheim canister filter with
about 10, 6" live rocks. I am down to one clown fish (from about 12 fish)
after about 8 months. I am starting to believe that I made the wrong move
on the filter side.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Rick]

> So no protein skimmer?

Protein skimmers help out a lot. They are probably the most benificial piece
of equipment.

>I am down to one clown fish (from about 12 fish)
> after about 8 months. I am starting to believe that I made the wrong move
> on the filter side.

What are your water parameters? What is the size of your aquarium? What and
how much do you feed?

-Rick

"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> > Because of the size, you won't be able to get enough large pieces of LR
> > in your canister. The reason for the LR is so the water can go deep into
> > the large rocks to where anerobic (without oxygen) bacteria live. These
> > bacteria will remove nitrAte from your system.
> >
> > If it was me, I would just go with the bio-balls in the filter.
> >
> > Ninety percent of people with frown on such filters as this canister or
> > a wet/dry trickle filter because they think they are nitrAte factories.
> > But I have a wet/dry on my 46 gallon reef and it is awesome. I dont have
> > a single trace of ammonia, nitrIte nor nitrAte.
> >
> > Personally I think it's all a bunch of wives tales.
>
> So no protein skimmer? I have a wet/dry and an Eheim canister filter with
> about 10, 6" live rocks. I am down to one clown fish (from about 12 fish)
> after about 8 months. I am starting to believe that I made the wrong move
> on the filter side.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

>> So no protein skimmer?
>
> Protein skimmers help out a lot. They are probably the most benificial
> piece of equipment.

Yet you don't have one?

>>I am down to one clown fish (from about 12 fish)
>> after about 8 months. I am starting to believe that I made the wrong
>> move on the filter side.
>
> What are your water parameters? What is the size of your aquarium? What
> and how much do you feed?

I show only the slightest color tint for amonia and nitrite. I don't test
nitrate very often but when I do it's not particularly high. The pH is
8.4, temp 78degF. The tank is a 54 us-gal corner tank. I fed the fish once
a night - either frozen brine shrimp plus an algae "chunk" or marine
flakes plus some dried blood worms.

Most of the fish that died would do so suddenly. I *think* the deaths
corresponded to 10% water changes but it was 2 or 3 days after the change.
My water changes usually sit for 2 days in open buckets with chloramine
treatment at a salinity of 1.0215. I have a small circulating pump that I
put in each bucket for a full day to ensure good mixing.

I'm about ready to drain and refill with fresh water.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Rick]

Sure I do... Just didn't mention it. I have a prizm skimmer in my sump.
Hanging on a ten gallon tank divider. I would like to get a different
skimmer, maybe a Berlin Turbo because the prizm is always pulling out a lot
(i mean A LOT) of gunk everyday.

Got a canister filter too for water polishing.

I was just focusing on the bio-ball live rock topic.

Rick

"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> >> So no protein skimmer?
> >
> > Protein skimmers help out a lot. They are probably the most benificial
> > piece of equipment.
>
> Yet you don't have one?
>
> >>I am down to one clown fish (from about 12 fish)
> >> after about 8 months. I am starting to believe that I made the wrong
> >> move on the filter side.
> >
> > What are your water parameters? What is the size of your aquarium? What
> > and how much do you feed?
>
> I show only the slightest color tint for amonia and nitrite. I don't test
> nitrate very often but when I do it's not particularly high. The pH is
> 8.4, temp 78degF. The tank is a 54 us-gal corner tank. I fed the fish once
> a night - either frozen brine shrimp plus an algae "chunk" or marine
> flakes plus some dried blood worms.
>
> Most of the fish that died would do so suddenly. I *think* the deaths
> corresponded to 10% water changes but it was 2 or 3 days after the change.
> My water changes usually sit for 2 days in open buckets with chloramine
> treatment at a salinity of 1.0215. I have a small circulating pump that I
> put in each bucket for a full day to ensure good mixing.
>
> I'm about ready to drain and refill with fresh water.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in news:LFfPb.2181$jc4.1590924
@news2.news.adelphia.net:

> Sure I do... Just didn't mention it. I have a prizm skimmer in my sump.
> Hanging on a ten gallon tank divider. I would like to get a different
> skimmer, maybe a Berlin Turbo because the prizm is always pulling out a lot
> (i mean A LOT) of gunk everyday.
>
> Got a canister filter too for water polishing.
>
> I was just focusing on the bio-ball live rock topic.

Oh. So I'm hosed then. I simply cannot fit a skimmer.

--
- Mark ->
--

[BiG_Orange]

put in each bucket for a full day to ensure good mixing.
>
> I'm about ready to drain and refill with fresh water.
>
> --
> - Mark ->

Many people now use that RO water stuff reverse osmosis.

[Rick]

A skimmer is not a requirement. But it does help remove disolved organic
carbons (DOC) Just about any skimmer is good enough. Even on a ten gallon
tank there are hang-on models that will fit. My first skimmer, an Airlift 60
was clunky and I stuck it right in the display tank. Just had to work around
it until i could get something else.

There is also many DIY drawings that would work.

What size tank do you have?

Give all the details of your equipment please... Also your inhabitants.

-Rick


"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in news:LFfPb.2181$jc4.1590924
> @news2.news.adelphia.net:
>
> > Sure I do... Just didn't mention it. I have a prizm skimmer in my sump.
> > Hanging on a ten gallon tank divider. I would like to get a different
> > skimmer, maybe a Berlin Turbo because the prizm is always pulling out a
lot
> > (i mean A LOT) of gunk everyday.
> >
> > Got a canister filter too for water polishing.
> >
> > I was just focusing on the bio-ball live rock topic.
>
> Oh. So I'm hosed then. I simply cannot fit a skimmer.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

> A skimmer is not a requirement. But it does help remove disolved organic
> carbons (DOC) Just about any skimmer is good enough. Even on a ten
> gallon tank there are hang-on models that will fit. My first skimmer, an
> Airlift 60 was clunky and I stuck it right in the display tank. Just had
> to work around it until i could get something else.
>
> There is also many DIY drawings that would work.
>
> What size tank do you have?
>
> Give all the details of your equipment please... Also your inhabitants.

From a previous reply:

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

> What are your water parameters? What is the size of your aquarium? What
> and how much do you feed?

I show only the slightest color tint for amonia and nitrite. I don't test
nitrate very often but when I do it's not particularly high. The pH is
8.4, temp 78degF. The tank is a 54 us-gal corner tank. I fed the fish once
a night - either frozen brine shrimp plus an algae "chunk" or marine
flakes plus some dried blood worms.

Most of the fish that died would do so suddenly. I *think* the deaths
corresponded to 10% water changes but it was 2 or 3 days after the change.
My water changes usually sit for 2 days in open buckets with chloramine
treatment at a salinity of 1.0215. I have a small circulating pump that I
put in each bucket for a full day to ensure good mixing.

Regards.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Mark A. Odell]

"BiG_Orange" <@> wrote in :

>> I'm about ready to drain and refill with fresh water.

> Many people now use that RO water stuff reverse osmosis.

My wife will kill me if I buy anymore expensive equipment after I
convinced her that marine isn't harder than tropical. Are RO filters
expensive?

--
- Mark ->
--

[BiG_Orange]

> Oh. So I'm hosed then. I simply cannot fit a skimmer.
>
> --
> - Mark ->

You better find room. You will get Cynobacteria and everything else. I
learned the hard way.

[Rick]

> You better find room. You will get Cynobacteria and everything else. I
> learned the hard way.

Thats not for certain... Especially on a established system of 9 months. I
would expect cyano from too much Nitrate and leaving the lights on longer
than you normally would.

-Rick

"BiG_Orange" <@> wrote in message ...
> > Oh. So I'm hosed then. I simply cannot fit a skimmer.
> >
> > --
> > - Mark ->
>
> You better find room. You will get Cynobacteria and everything else. I
> learned the hard way.
>
>
>

[Rick]

Well the first problem I see is your specific gravity (not salinity) is
1.021...

At 78 degrees that equates to about 30 ppt salinity. That is WAY BAD for
marine fish / inverts / corals.

You need to maintain 35 ppt salinity for any type of marine aquarium. At 78
degrees that would equate to a specific gravity reading of 1.024 at
least..Probably it would be good for a reading of 1.025.

As for the water changes, you should aerate them while you store it, with an
air stone or powerhead, especially since you are storing it so long. With it
storing so long the dissolved oxygen dissipates and then you put it in the
tank...

As far as the food, the only thing I could think is maybe you are
overfeeding... for an approximate 50 gallon tank, i would think that a total
food load each day of about a half of a square of brine shrimp would be
fine. (Not that i mean to only feed brine, just that is the size of total
food going in). Of couse this assumes you have less than 10 inches of total
fish (each fishs' length added together). That is 1 inch per 5 gallons of
water. (simple rule of thumb)

BTW: A 50 gallon tank definitely has enough room for a protein skimmer, a
prizm or berlin HOT would work fine... (each of which are about 100 bucks)

-Rick

Another issue is
"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> > A skimmer is not a requirement. But it does help remove disolved organic
> > carbons (DOC) Just about any skimmer is good enough. Even on a ten
> > gallon tank there are hang-on models that will fit. My first skimmer, an
> > Airlift 60 was clunky and I stuck it right in the display tank. Just had
> > to work around it until i could get something else.
> >
> > There is also many DIY drawings that would work.
> >
> > What size tank do you have?
> >
> > Give all the details of your equipment please... Also your inhabitants.
>
> From a previous reply:
>
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> > What are your water parameters? What is the size of your aquarium? What
> > and how much do you feed?
>
> I show only the slightest color tint for amonia and nitrite. I don't test
> nitrate very often but when I do it's not particularly high. The pH is
> 8.4, temp 78degF. The tank is a 54 us-gal corner tank. I fed the fish once
> a night - either frozen brine shrimp plus an algae "chunk" or marine
> flakes plus some dried blood worms.
>
> Most of the fish that died would do so suddenly. I *think* the deaths
> corresponded to 10% water changes but it was 2 or 3 days after the change.
> My water changes usually sit for 2 days in open buckets with chloramine
> treatment at a salinity of 1.0215. I have a small circulating pump that I
> put in each bucket for a full day to ensure good mixing.
>
> Regards.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[BiG_Orange]

> My wife will kill me if I buy anymore expensive equipment after I
> convinced her that marine isn't harder than tropical. Are RO filters
> expensive?
>
> --
> - Mark ->

Expense is relative to your income. You could have paid for it in what you
lost in fish. The initial investment on a marine tank is much higher than
freshwater, but once it's running it should be smooth sailing.

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

>> You better find room. You will get Cynobacteria and everything else. I
>> learned the hard way.
>
> Thats not for certain... Especially on a established system of 9 months.
> I would expect cyano from too much Nitrate and leaving the lights on
> longer than you normally would.

The Cynobact. seems to have come and gone. I wonder if my live rock is
finally supporting nitrate eating bacteria.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

> Well the first problem I see is your specific gravity (not salinity) is
> 1.021...
>
> At 78 degrees that equates to about 30 ppt salinity. That is WAY BAD for
> marine fish / inverts / corals.
>
> You need to maintain 35 ppt salinity for any type of marine aquarium. At
> 78 degrees that would equate to a specific gravity reading of 1.024 at
> least..Probably it would be good for a reading of 1.025.

Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
given temp?

> As for the water changes, you should aerate them while you store it,
> with an air stone or powerhead, especially since you are storing it so
> long. With it storing so long the dissolved oxygen dissipates and then
> you put it in the tank...

I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
How long should the water stand?

> As far as the food, the only thing I could think is maybe you are
> overfeeding... for an approximate 50 gallon tank, i would think that a

I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is always
very close to non-detect.

> BTW: A 50 gallon tank definitely has enough room for a protein skimmer,
> a prizm or berlin HOT would work fine... (each of which are about 100
> bucks)

Yes but where would I put it? I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks
like a quarter of a pie and it is jammed into a corner only the curved
front viewing portion is accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not
look great and I don't think I can handle any more pump noise.

Am I destined to go back to tropical fish?

Thanks.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Rick]

> Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
> temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
> given temp?

Very welcome... When you bring up the salinity be sure to do it slowly,
especially since there is such a big climb required. 78 degrees should be
fine with your guys. Personally, I like mine a little higher at about 80
degrees F / 27 degrees C. There are conversion charts to convert your
hydrometer reading, taking into account the temperature to get an actual
density, and then from that to a salinity in PPT (parts per thousand). I use
a couple books, but here is a link to a table online... I don't know how
accurate it is, so be careful http://www.aquatext.com/tables/hyd23-28.htm.
The book i recommend for this is Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium by
John H. Tullock. It's really cheap, only a few bucks (7.00 on Amazon.)

> I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
> How long should the water stand?

I would use it just as soon as you could so various water properties do not
wisk away. About a day is cool, or as soon as you can get the temp and pH up
and matching your display tank. (between you and me, I use my make-up water
as soon as I make it. And I adjust the whole system. Im sure to get flamed
on that one LOL)

> I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is always
> very close to non-detect.

Not neccesarily, if you have been overfeeding everytime there wouldnt be
"spikes" it would be flat at some value. And since you mentioned that it is
alway "very close" to non-detect, that is what I think. Results on an
Ammonia test should be no doubt, absolutely zero. Now, for those of you who
think that any amount of ammonia will kill anything in the tank think again.
That is absolutely false. Think of it this way, would a drop of glass clean
kill everything in the ocean? No it won't, so "some" measurable amount of
ammonia will be tolerated. Its just that in our closed systems, a zero
reading is definitely obtainable and should be maintained.

> Yes but where would I put it? I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks
> like a quarter of a pie and it is jammed into a corner only the curved
> front viewing portion is accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not
> look great and I don't think I can handle any more pump noise.

If at all possible, move the tank from the wall about 6 inches on each side.
I know this is difficult and should be only reserved for a time when you
need to break the tank down. (I.e. remove the water and live rock and sand
too if you can.) Like I said, a skimmer is not required. BUT it is the most
cost beneficial piece of equipment you will buy, if you decide to.

If you could do anything with this, move the tank away from the wall,
install an overflow and a sump, about a 10-15 gallon. You can put all you
equipment in the sump. Heaters, thermometer, skimmer, etc. You could then
get rid of your powerheads, if you felt like it, and have the return line(s)
provide the water movement you are looking for. But thats if you could spend
the money and feel like doing all that.

> Am I destined to go back to tropical fish?

Nah, not at all... The trick to salt water is doing things slowly. Only bad
things happen quickly in a marine / reef tank. Once you get a balance
working, it will maintain itself pretty well with only regular consistancy.


-Rick


"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> > Well the first problem I see is your specific gravity (not salinity) is
> > 1.021...
> >
> > At 78 degrees that equates to about 30 ppt salinity. That is WAY BAD for
> > marine fish / inverts / corals.
> >
> > You need to maintain 35 ppt salinity for any type of marine aquarium. At
> > 78 degrees that would equate to a specific gravity reading of 1.024 at
> > least..Probably it would be good for a reading of 1.025.
>
> Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
> temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
> given temp?
>
> > As for the water changes, you should aerate them while you store it,
> > with an air stone or powerhead, especially since you are storing it so
> > long. With it storing so long the dissolved oxygen dissipates and then
> > you put it in the tank...
>
> I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
> How long should the water stand?
>
> > As far as the food, the only thing I could think is maybe you are
> > overfeeding... for an approximate 50 gallon tank, i would think that a
>
> I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is always
> very close to non-detect.
>
> > BTW: A 50 gallon tank definitely has enough room for a protein skimmer,
> > a prizm or berlin HOT would work fine... (each of which are about 100
> > bucks)
>
> Yes but where would I put it? I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks
> like a quarter of a pie and it is jammed into a corner only the curved
> front viewing portion is accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not
> look great and I don't think I can handle any more pump noise.
>
> Am I destined to go back to tropical fish?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Rick]

> The Cynobact. seems to have come and gone. I wonder if my live rock is
> finally supporting nitrate eating bacteria.

Could be.. Cyano tho is generally linked to lighting and phosphate. I.e.
phosphates in the water and you change the lighting schedule. Algae would
definitely be linked to all of the above, Lighting, Phosphate and Nitrate.
(Cyno is not algae, it's like the missing link for algae tho)

-Rick

"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> >> You better find room. You will get Cynobacteria and everything else. I
> >> learned the hard way.
> >
> > Thats not for certain... Especially on a established system of 9 months.
> > I would expect cyano from too much Nitrate and leaving the lights on
> > longer than you normally would.
>
> The Cynobact. seems to have come and gone. I wonder if my live rock is
> finally supporting nitrate eating bacteria.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Don Geddis]

"Mark A. Odell" > writes:
> I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks like a quarter of a pie and it
> is jammed into a corner only the curved front viewing portion is
> accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not look great and I don't think
> I can handle any more pump noise.

I've got the same tank. You just pull it out from the wall a little bit,
and put the skimmer between the tank and the wall.

If you get live rock (and sand?) in the tank, and a protein skimmer, then you
can remove all the other filtration. Perhaps that will make your tank
quieter. For me, the loudest noise is the fan on the lights.

What do you do for lights, by the way? I've had a bit of a tough time
getting something that works well on top of the 1/4-circle pie shape.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/

[Rick]

> Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
> temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
> given temp?

Very welcome... When you bring up the salinity be sure to do it slowly,
especially since there is such a big climb required. 78 degrees should be
fine with your guys. Personally, I like mine a little higher at about 80
degrees F / 27 degrees C. There are conversion charts to convert your
hydrometer reading, taking into account the temperature to get an actual
density, and then from that to a salinity in PPT (parts per thousand). I use
a couple books, but here is a link to a table online... I don't know how
accurate it is, so be careful http://www.aquatext.com/tables/hyd23-28.htm.
The book i recommend for this is Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium by
John H. Tullock. It's really cheap, only a few bucks (7.00 on Amazon.)

> I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
> How long should the water stand?

I would use it just as soon as you could so various water properties do not
wisk away. About a day is cool, or as soon as you can get the temp and pH up
and matching your display tank. (between you and me, I use my make-up water
as soon as I make it. And I adjust the whole system. Im sure to get flamed
on that one LOL)

> I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is always
> very close to non-detect.

Not neccesarily, if you have been overfeeding everytime there wouldnt be
"spikes" it would be flat at some value. And since you mentioned that it is
alway "very close" to non-detect, that is what I think. Results on an
Ammonia test should be no doubt, absolutely zero. Now, for those of you who
think that any amount of ammonia will kill anything in the tank think again.
That is absolutely false. Think of it this way, would a drop of glass clean
kill everything in the ocean? No it won't, so "some" measurable amount of
ammonia will be tolerated. Its just that in our closed systems, a zero
reading is definitely obtainable and should be maintained.

> Yes but where would I put it? I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks
> like a quarter of a pie and it is jammed into a corner only the curved
> front viewing portion is accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not
> look great and I don't think I can handle any more pump noise.

If at all possible, move the tank from the wall about 6 inches on each side.
I know this is difficult and should be only reserved for a time when you
need to break the tank down. (I.e. remove the water and live rock and sand
too if you can.) Like I said, a skimmer is not required. BUT it is the most
cost beneficial piece of equipment you will buy, if you decide to.

If you could do anything with this, move the tank away from the wall,
install an overflow and a sump, about a 10-15 gallon. You can put all you
equipment in the sump. Heaters, thermometer, skimmer, etc. You could then
get rid of your powerheads, if you felt like it, and have the return line(s)
provide the water movement you are looking for. But thats if you could spend
the money and feel like doing all that.

> Am I destined to go back to tropical fish?

Nah, not at all... The trick to salt water is doing things slowly. Only bad
things happen quickly in a marine / reef tank. Once you get a balance
working, it will maintain itself pretty well with only regular consistancy.


-Rick


"Mark A. Odell" > wrote in message
. 4...
> "Rick" > wrote in
> t:
>
> > Well the first problem I see is your specific gravity (not salinity) is
> > 1.021...
> >
> > At 78 degrees that equates to about 30 ppt salinity. That is WAY BAD for
> > marine fish / inverts / corals.
> >
> > You need to maintain 35 ppt salinity for any type of marine aquarium. At
> > 78 degrees that would equate to a specific gravity reading of 1.024 at
> > least..Probably it would be good for a reading of 1.025.
>
> Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
> temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
> given temp?
>
> > As for the water changes, you should aerate them while you store it,
> > with an air stone or powerhead, especially since you are storing it so
> > long. With it storing so long the dissolved oxygen dissipates and then
> > you put it in the tank...
>
> I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
> How long should the water stand?
>
> > As far as the food, the only thing I could think is maybe you are
> > overfeeding... for an approximate 50 gallon tank, i would think that a
>
> I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is always
> very close to non-detect.
>
> > BTW: A 50 gallon tank definitely has enough room for a protein skimmer,
> > a prizm or berlin HOT would work fine... (each of which are about 100
> > bucks)
>
> Yes but where would I put it? I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks
> like a quarter of a pie and it is jammed into a corner only the curved
> front viewing portion is accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not
> look great and I don't think I can handle any more pump noise.
>
> Am I destined to go back to tropical fish?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> - Mark ->
> --

[Mark A. Odell]

Don Geddis > wrote in
:

>> I have a 54gal corner tank. Since it looks like a quarter of a pie and
>> it is jammed into a corner only the curved front viewing portion is
>> accessible. A skimmer hanging there would not look great and I don't
>> think I can handle any more pump noise.
>
> I've got the same tank. You just pull it out from the wall a little
> bit, and put the skimmer between the tank and the wall.

Heh. Easier said than done. Since you can only move a completely empty
tank, I'm not sure the current residents would appreciate this action. :-)
Can I put a skimmer in the sump?

> If you get live rock (and sand?) in the tank, and a protein skimmer,
> then you can remove all the other filtration. Perhaps that will make
> your tank quieter. For me, the loudest noise is the fan on the lights.

I have about 2" of sand and live rock. Since I've (over my fishkeeping
career) spent about $400 US on the two filters I'm hoping they serve some
purpose.

> What do you do for lights, by the way? I've had a bit of a tough time
> getting something that works well on top of the 1/4-circle pie shape.

I have the standard All-Glass two tube (2 x 24") hood that is designed for
the tank. Behind this, I have a small CF (20W?) light that fits well
behind the standard hood.

--
- Mark ->
--

[Mark A. Odell]

"Rick" > wrote in
t:

>> Thanks for this. I'll try bringing it up to 1.024. What about the
>> temperature? Is 78 okay? How does one determine the correct s.g. at a
>> given temp?
>
> Very welcome... When you bring up the salinity be sure to do it slowly,
> especially since there is such a big climb required. 78 degrees should
> be fine with your guys. Personally, I like mine a little higher at about
> 80 degrees F / 27 degrees C. There are conversion charts to convert your
> hydrometer reading, taking into account the temperature to get an
> actual density, and then from that to a salinity in PPT (parts per
> thousand). I use a couple books, but here is a link to a table online...
> I don't know how accurate it is, so be careful
> http://www.aquatext.com/tables/hyd23-28.htm. The book i recommend for
> this is Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium by John H. Tullock. It's
> really cheap, only a few bucks (7.00 on Amazon.)

Thanks for the links. I'm going to get that book too.

>> I do have a power head in the buckets but it just circulates the water.
>> How long should the water stand?
>
> I would use it just as soon as you could so various water properties do
> not wisk away. About a day is cool, or as soon as you can get the temp
> and pH up and matching your display tank. (between you and me, I use my
> make-up water as soon as I make it. And I adjust the whole system. Im
> sure to get flamed on that one LOL)

pH? Uh oh. I don't check the pH of the water I add. Since it's out of the
tap I'm guessing it won't be 8.4. This could be one of my problems. So I
suppose I need yet more chemicals to get the pH up to match the tank,
don't I?

>> I would have expected amonia spikes in this case, but the amonia is
>> always very close to non-detect.
>
> Not neccesarily, if you have been overfeeding everytime there wouldnt be
> "spikes" it would be flat at some value. And since you mentioned that it
> is alway "very close" to non-detect, that is what I think. Results on an
> Ammonia test should be no doubt, absolutely zero. Now, for those of you
> who think that any amount of ammonia will kill anything in the tank
> think again. That is absolutely false. Think of it this way, would a
> drop of glass clean kill everything in the ocean? No it won't, so "some"
> measurable amount of ammonia will be tolerated. Its just that in our
> closed systems, a zero reading is definitely obtainable and should be
> maintained.

I feared this. So amonia should be zero, not minimal in a good tank? I'm
in trouble then because I've never gotten a totally clear (non-detect)
amonia reading.

Looks like I have some more work to do. Poor clown fish, all by himself
because of my inexperience.

--
- Mark ->
--