snails

[Kay]

I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails.
and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have had
a fish get sick or die due to a snail?

Kay

[Ka30P]

I have not had any sickness or problems in
my pond. I have only lost fish due to winter conditions I didn't get ahead of.
That said if I had fish that I was
very attached to or very valuable I would be
careful with snails.
When buying plants you can soak them in a solution (jj or ingrid will post and
let you know
the procedure) that will kill the snails and deal with any eggs. You can also
physically search for the eggs which usually look like a strip of clear jelly.
Mystery and Apple snails lay eggs that look like clumps of salmon eggs.

I like the variety and scope of a pond where all are welcome, including
predators and creepy crawlies. But I also admire and understand ponders who
raise fish for pets and pure loverlyness ;-)

Will be interested to read other posts to this thread.


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Kay]

Ka30P wrote:

> I have not had any sickness or problems in
> my pond. I have only lost fish due to winter conditions I didn't get ahead of.
> That said if I had fish that I was
> very attached to or very valuable I would be
> careful with snails.
> When buying plants you can soak them in a solution (jj or ingrid will post and
> let you know
> the procedure) that will kill the snails and deal with any eggs. You can also
> physically search for the eggs which usually look like a strip of clear jelly.
> Mystery and Apple snails lay eggs that look like clumps of salmon eggs.
>
> I like the variety and scope of a pond where all are welcome, including
> predators and creepy crawlies. But I also admire and understand ponders who
> raise fish for pets and pure loverlyness ;-)
>
> Will be interested to read other posts to this thread.
>
>
> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

I wanted to see how many people had illiness to their fish from snails
because I disagree with Ingrid on the instances. I know there a black
spot disease that come from infected snails, but I think that its not
common at all, if not rare, with snails that hitch a ride on a plant
bought from a petstore. Since lots of people if not all have goldfish,
koi I wanted to see if anyone had fish sick from snails and if so what
did they do and what illiness. Basically like a poll of fish keepers
with pond and aquariums.

Thanks for the info,

Kay

[Ka30P]

Let's see, it might help to know what kind of
snails folks have.

ramshorn (or orb snail), little pond snail (lots and lots of these), pointed
winkle and japanese trapdoor.

I've made an effort, when buying plants, to collect different types from the
growing pond.

No fish disease noticed.

I feel nursery snails are safe. Snails from the wild I don't think I'd bring
into my ponds. I've never added plants from the wild into my pond except by
seed (cord grass, cattails and rush) or birdy business (bladderwort).


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Lee B.]

The problem is, you may or may not be able to lay the cause of a recent
outbreak at the (ahem!) feet of the snails. They're just SUSPECT - always.
Once upon a time I had apple snails: was a real treat to watch them. Then my
fish got sick. One of the possible culprits were the snails. Didn't know for
sure, didn't want to take the risk: gave them to a kid who only wanted the
snails in a tank with no fish. Also, a lot of medications that you may wish
to treat your fish with will play havoc with snails. Which in turn plays
havoc with your water quality. And then there's this to consider: there
are no snails in the pond where the fish are (they're munchies if found!);
however, I just had to tear my Ultima II down over the weekend because it
had slowed to a trickle. The fins were clogged solid with the little black
common pond snails. They're a nuisance. They serve no good (other than
munchies). If they can be prevented, they should be. After they're in the
pond, it's nearly impossible to be rid of them.

Lee

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:5cqqc.111931$Ik.9128532@attbi_s53...
> I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails.
> and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
> their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
> having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have had
> a fish get sick or die due to a snail?
>
> Kay
>

[BenignVanilla]

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:5cqqc.111931$Ik.9128532@attbi_s53...
> I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails.
> and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
> their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
> having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have had
> a fish get sick or die due to a snail?

I have had many snails arrive in my pond. Some from my bro in law. Some from
Jim Hurley. Some from plants I bought. Some from who knows where. They are
also in a variety of sizes from "can't see 'em" to "golf ball sized". To
date, I have not had any plants destroyed by snails, and I have lost only
one fish, which entered the pond and died the next day. He was old, and I am
guessing didn't travel well.

I agree with K30. You can pond for your fish, and in that case be anal about
critters. Or you can go au-natural and build it...they will come.

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[George]

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:5cqqc.111931$Ik.9128532@attbi_s53...
>I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails. and it
>seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to their goldfish.
>Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants having diseases. what my
>question here is, how many people here have had a fish get sick or die due to a
>snail?
>
> Kay
>

I have, but not in a pond. I also raise fresh and salt water aquarium fish. I
have had snails wipe out an entire tank. I don't remember the specific species
that did it, but some snails carry parasites that are deadly to fish, while
others carry deadly bacteria. In addition, some really nasty ones will grow in
their larval stage attached to a fish's gill tissue, sucking fluids out of the
fish, and introducing parasites and diseases along the way. Most, however, are
harmless to fish. Ususally the problem snails get into a tank or a pond via
introduced plant populations. Which is why, in my view, a good habit to get
into is to wash any plants before you introduce them into an aquarium or pond.

[Gail Futoran]

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> Let's see, it might help to know what kind of
> snails folks have.
>
> ramshorn (or orb snail), little pond snail (lots and lots
of these), pointed
> winkle and japanese trapdoor.

yep yep huh? yep. :) (Don't know what a pointed
winkle is.)

> I've made an effort, when buying plants, to collect
different types from the
> growing pond.
>
> No fish disease noticed.

Ditto. But I only have minnows and common
goldfish/comets/shubunkin. I have had fish die
(not recently), but have no idea what caused it.

> I feel nursery snails are safe. Snails from the wild I
don't think I'd bring
> into my ponds. I've never added plants from the wild into
my pond except by
> seed (cord grass, cattails and rush) or birdy business
(bladderwort).

Except for the Japanese trapdoors, which I
bought on purpose, all of my snails have come
in on plants purchased locally. If they're
diseased I haven't noticed but not sure what
to look for.

> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a
pond</A>

Gail

[Sean Dinh]

I had small snails raised in a tub with a catfish and a terror, and in a tub
with minnows and GF. I couldn't catch enough snails to feed the Clown Loach
in an aquarium. I did not have any unexplainable fish death.

Kay wrote:

> I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails.
> and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
> their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
> having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have had
> a fish get sick or die due to a snail?
>
> Kay

[[email protected]]

Most people have no idea why their fish die. And frankly, it isnt my opinion that
snails are not a good "companion" animal for pond fish. It is the opinion of the
experts that breed fish, the experts that write the text books. I did start out my
graduate studies in parasitology, so I have enough information to be very impressed
with how nasty parasites are that spread thru intermediate hosts.
consider that the dermal variety of schistosomiasis AKA swimmers itch is spread by
snails... and the Pond Lady was getting horrendous itching and sores on arms and legs
from her ponds.
as for people buying snails to put in their pond... whatever winds your motor
applies.
Ingrid

Kay > wrote:
>I wanted to see how many people had illiness to their fish from snails
>because I disagree with Ingrid on the instances. I know there a black
>spot disease that come from infected snails, but I think that its not
>common at all, if not rare, with snails that hitch a ride on a plant
>bought from a petstore. Since lots of people if not all have goldfish,
>koi I wanted to see if anyone had fish sick from snails and if so what
>did they do and what illiness. Basically like a poll of fish keepers
>with pond and aquariums.>Kay



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Ka30P]

Ingrid wrote >>as for people buying snails to put in their pond... whatever
winds your motor
applies.<<

Personally I blame my parents ;-)
They let me spend way too much time with a dixie cup in hand trying to catch
salmon fry at the edge of Deer Crick. I've been hooked on things that live in
water ever since.


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[jammer]

Last year i had many snails. No deaths or illnesses occured, except
the snails either got eaten or died. Not a trace this year. Not one.

No fish trouble, anyway.






On Tue, 18 May 2004 15:45:05 GMT, Kay > wrote:

>I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about
snails.
>and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
>their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
>having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have
had
>a fish get sick or die due to a snail?
>
>Kay

[RichToyBox]

Lee,


I flush them out of my bead filters all the time. None in the pond, koi
love the snacks, but skimmer, vortex, bead filter all get plenty.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> The problem is, you may or may not be able to lay the cause of a recent
> outbreak at the (ahem!) feet of the snails. They're just SUSPECT - always.
> Once upon a time I had apple snails: was a real treat to watch them. Then
my
> fish got sick. One of the possible culprits were the snails. Didn't know
for
> sure, didn't want to take the risk: gave them to a kid who only wanted the
> snails in a tank with no fish. Also, a lot of medications that you may
wish
> to treat your fish with will play havoc with snails. Which in turn plays
> havoc with your water quality. And then there's this to consider: there
> are no snails in the pond where the fish are (they're munchies if found!);
> however, I just had to tear my Ultima II down over the weekend because it
> had slowed to a trickle. The fins were clogged solid with the little black
> common pond snails. They're a nuisance. They serve no good (other than
> munchies). If they can be prevented, they should be. After they're in the
> pond, it's nearly impossible to be rid of them.
>
> Lee
>
> "Kay" > wrote in message
> news:5cqqc.111931$Ik.9128532@attbi_s53...
> > I have been posting and reading in the goldfish news group about snails.
> > and it seems as if some posters feel that snails are danggerious to
> > their goldfish. Basically buying plants and the snails on the plants
> > having diseases. what my question here is, how many people here have had
> > a fish get sick or die due to a snail?
> >
> > Kay
> >
>
>

[Kay]

wrote:
> Most people have no idea why their fish die. And frankly, it isnt my opinion that
> snails are not a good "companion" animal for pond fish. It is the opinion of the
> experts that breed fish, the experts that write the text books. I did start out my
> graduate studies in parasitology, so I have enough information to be very impressed
> with how nasty parasites are that spread thru intermediate hosts.
> consider that the dermal variety of schistosomiasis AKA swimmers itch is spread by
> snails... and the Pond Lady was getting horrendous itching and sores on arms and legs
> from her ponds.
> as for people buying snails to put in their pond... whatever winds your motor
> applies.
> Ingrid
>
> Kay > wrote:
>
>>I wanted to see how many people had illiness to their fish from snails
>>because I disagree with Ingrid on the instances. I know there a black
>>spot disease that come from infected snails, but I think that its not
>>common at all, if not rare, with snails that hitch a ride on a plant
>>bought from a petstore. Since lots of people if not all have goldfish,
>>koi I wanted to see if anyone had fish sick from snails and if so what
>>did they do and what illiness. Basically like a poll of fish keepers
>>with pond and aquariums.>Kay
>
>
>
>


I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.

Kay

[Bonnie]

Ka30P wrote:
> Ingrid wrote >>as for people buying snails to put in their pond... whatever
> winds your motor
> applies.<<
>
> Personally I blame my parents ;-)
> They let me spend way too much time with a dixie cup in hand trying to catch
> salmon fry at the edge of Deer Crick. I've been hooked on things that live in
> water ever since.
>
>
> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

We spent our time looking for crayfish in Wissahican Crick.

--
Bonnie
NJ

[Jim and Phyllis Hurley]

Bonnie,

I used to live in Phila (Glenside) and worked in a summer camp in the
Wissahicken park. 1966-1969. Phyllis taught in the center of the city.

Jim



--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"Bonnie" > wrote in message
...
> Ka30P wrote:
> > Ingrid wrote >>as for people buying snails to put in their pond...
whatever
> > winds your motor
> > applies.<<
> >
> > Personally I blame my parents ;-)
> > They let me spend way too much time with a dixie cup in hand trying to
catch
> > salmon fry at the edge of Deer Crick. I've been hooked on things that
live in
> > water ever since.
> >
> >
> > kathy :-)
> > <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>
>
> We spent our time looking for crayfish in Wissahican Crick.
>
> --
> Bonnie
> NJ
>
>
>

[Mosfunland]

The Wissahicken!!! My grandfather walked me along that crick everyday during
the summer months. We would also walk along the river across from Manayunk.
Such a great memory of sweet times during the summer. I learned how to fish
there....almost.

Maureen
>I used to live in Phila (Glenside) and worked in a summer camp in the
>Wissahicken park.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Kay,

I am a breeder and I have snails in my ponds and my
aquariums.

She will never respond to me, because I prove her wrong
off and on through the years and this has been going on
in exchanges for years, so I have been on her kill list
for years, but go ahead and ask which breeders and
which writers of books. I have almost every book every
written about Goldfish and snails are always listed as
companions to Goldfish.

Ingrid says stuff and never backs it up, but beings she
says it it must be true, or so she believes.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------------------

Kay wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> Most people have no idea why their fish die. And frankly, it isnt my
>> opinion that
>> snails are not a good "companion" animal for pond fish. It is the
>> opinion of the
>> experts that breed fish, the experts that write the text books. I did
>> start out my
>> graduate studies in parasitology, so I have enough information to be
>> very impressed
>> with how nasty parasites are that spread thru intermediate hosts.
>> consider that the dermal variety of schistosomiasis AKA swimmers itch
>> is spread by
>> snails... and the Pond Lady was getting horrendous itching and sores
>> on arms and legs
>> from her ponds. as for people buying snails to put in their pond...
>> whatever winds your motor
>> applies.
>> Ingrid
>>
>> Kay > wrote:
>>
>>> I wanted to see how many people had illiness to their fish from
>>> snails because I disagree with Ingrid on the instances. I know there
>>> a black spot disease that come from infected snails, but I think that
>>> its not common at all, if not rare, with snails that hitch a ride on
>>> a plant bought from a petstore. Since lots of people if not all have
>>> goldfish, koi I wanted to see if anyone had fish sick from snails and
>>> if so what did they do and what illiness. Basically like a poll of
>>> fish keepers with pond and aquariums.>Kay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
> And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
> specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
> kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
>
> Kay
>

[Kay]

Tom,

She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I would
be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.

Kay


Tom L. La Bron wrote:

> Kay,
>
> I am a breeder and I have snails in my ponds and my aquariums.
>
> She will never respond to me, because I prove her wrong off and on
> through the years and this has been going on in exchanges for years, so
> I have been on her kill list for years, but go ahead and ask which
> breeders and which writers of books. I have almost every book every
> written about Goldfish and snails are always listed as companions to
> Goldfish.
>
> Ingrid says stuff and never backs it up, but beings she says it it must
> be true, or so she believes.
>
> Tom L.L.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Kay wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Most people have no idea why their fish die. And frankly, it isnt my
>>> opinion that
>>> snails are not a good "companion" animal for pond fish. It is the
>>> opinion of the
>>> experts that breed fish, the experts that write the text books. I
>>> did start out my
>>> graduate studies in parasitology, so I have enough information to be
>>> very impressed
>>> with how nasty parasites are that spread thru intermediate hosts.
>>> consider that the dermal variety of schistosomiasis AKA swimmers itch
>>> is spread by
>>> snails... and the Pond Lady was getting horrendous itching and sores
>>> on arms and legs
>>> from her ponds. as for people buying snails to put in their pond...
>>> whatever winds your motor
>>> applies.
>>> Ingrid
>>>
>>> Kay > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wanted to see how many people had illiness to their fish from
>>>> snails because I disagree with Ingrid on the instances. I know there
>>>> a black spot disease that come from infected snails, but I think
>>>> that its not common at all, if not rare, with snails that hitch a
>>>> ride on a plant bought from a petstore. Since lots of people if not
>>>> all have goldfish, koi I wanted to see if anyone had fish sick from
>>>> snails and if so what did they do and what illiness. Basically like
>>>> a poll of fish keepers with pond and aquariums.>Kay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail
>> can. And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a
>> single specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the
>> average can kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
>>
>> Kay
>>

[BenignVanilla]

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
> Tom,
>
> She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I would
> be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
> have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
<snip>

Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.

BV.

[[email protected]]

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
it is an old treatment that fell out of usage until a fish product company brought it
back and started selling it again. It is also being touted by homeopathic concerns
for various treatments.
Ingrid

"BenignVanilla" > wrote:
>Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kay]

BenignVanilla wrote:
> "Kay" > wrote in message
> news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
>
>>Tom,
>>
>>She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I would
>>be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
>>have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
>
> <snip>
>
> Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>
> BV.
>
>

Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca

Kay

[Cichlidiot]

Kay > wrote:
> Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.

> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca

I, on the other hand, am not a big fan of Melafix. For one, I'm horridly
allergic to it. For another, it appeared to aggrevate a case of nitrite
poisoning that was occuring simulataneously with a case of fin rot on some
of my newly acquired fish.

It also seems a little too snail-oil like for my likings. I've seen no
real scientific studies to back up the plethora of disorders it claims to
treat. The only close to scientific study I've seen came to the conclusion
that it really is only good as a prophalactic treatment with injured fish
to prevent secondary infections and promote healing.

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=104

[Tom L. La Bron]

Kay and BV,

If you take the time to read all that she has on her
site what she uses as examples like the people allowing
their baby to consume pure tea tree essential oil.
(Melafix is only 1% tea tree oil) Nothing in the
adverse effects area deals with fish; just Humans,
dogs, cats and birds. The one that is really
interesting is the bird lady who figured that if a
little worked a lot would work better and killed her
bird. Excuse me, who's fault was that. I.E., Golly
gee, if 250 mg of antiboitic is working pretty good
then 2000mg should work even better.

Then there people like Cichlodot that is allergic to
it, but you find that every where. Cottonpick if you
give a teaspoon of salt to a young baby it will kill
it, but do we stop using salt. Give me a break.

Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying
to make a point that isn't valid just her opinion.
Personally I think that it is great stuff and if it
will work on Discus fry, it has got to be good and
mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on
Discus fry if they get sick, virtually everything kills
them. I use it when an if it is needed as a first line
of defense should something show up on my fish, and I
certainly use it on new fish when they go into
quarantine as one of the main meds that I use first on
quarantined fish for 14 days when the fish come into my
possession and go under quarantine whether they show
any bad signs or not.

It is good stuff. I use it in my soaps also.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------------------
Kay wrote:

> BenignVanilla wrote:
>
>> "Kay" > wrote in message
>> news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I would
>>> be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
>>> have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>>
>> BV.
>>
>>
>
> Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.
>
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
>
> Kay
>

[Cichlidiot]

Tom L. La Bron > wrote:
> Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying
> to make a point that isn't valid just her opinion.
> Personally I think that it is great stuff and if it
> will work on Discus fry, it has got to be good and
> mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on
> Discus fry if they get sick, virtually everything kills
> them. I use it when an if it is needed as a first line
> of defense should something show up on my fish, and I
> certainly use it on new fish when they go into
> quarantine as one of the main meds that I use first on
> quarantined fish for 14 days when the fish come into my
> possession and go under quarantine whether they show
> any bad signs or not.

Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
not intended. Unfortunately, many aquarists seem to be treating Melafix as
some panacea for all that ails fish, which just is not true. Melafix only
claims to promote healing of skin and fins. If you read carefully, you
will note that even though they list off a variety of illnesses, they do
not claim to cure those illnesses, only promote healing of damaged tissue.
Thus, it really isn't useful as a prophalactic unless the new fish have
experienced some sort of wounds or fin damage. Adding it to a tank with
non-injured fish will probably do no harm, but isn't going to magically
help with any mystery diseases either. This tendancy of people to use
Melafix as a panacea combined with my allergies to it makes me rather
critical of its overuse.

Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance. I've had
several cases of beat up fish or fin nipping since I discovered my allergy
to Melafix. Some of these were rather severe with my cichlids (the fish
hanging listless at the corner of the tank). All of them recovered when
moved to a quiet tank with good water quality. No Melafix needed really.
As for quarantine, observation is best IMO, perhaps combined with feeding
of medicated food against internal parasites since those can take a while
to develop external symptoms.

My approach to sick fish is pretty much similar to beat up fish. Move them
to a quiet, clean hospital tank. Observe for symptoms and then apply the
most appropriate medication given the symptoms. I also tend to prefer the
medicated food approach when that is indicated, particularly for suspected
internal infections. Most recently this was a fish that bloated up
overnight. The symptoms did not seem consistent with either bacterial or
parasitic infections known to cause bloat, so I just treated with epsom
salts for constipation. Sure enough, about 5 days later he passed what
appeared to be cat hair (which considering I have water loving cats is not
unlikely). Within a day, all swelling was gone and he was back to his
previously fiesty self.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Cichlidiot,

I can not agree with you more about using a med for
what is intended. I usually get fish from other
breeders I usually just observe them through the
quarantine to see if something is going to show up.
When I do get fish from a LFS I don't take any chances,
plus, since when I do get them from the LFS I usually
get them the day they arrive and after being intransit
in bags I get fish that may look a little tattered, so
when I bring them home I use the Melafix as part of the
quarantine procedure. During the month long quarantine
of new fish, on the 10th day of the 14 day Melafix
treatment I start feeding a medicated food for 14 days.
There is a couple of days at the beginning of
quarantine where I observe the fish before adding the
Melafix.


As far as a Panacea goes that is other peoples
problems, I read the label and use it accordingly. I
have never used it that way or suggested its use other
than what the label instructions indicate. What other
aquarist do is not the fault of the med, how they use
it outside of it indicated realm is their choice.

I have always been an advocate of clean water and
proper water maintenance. That has been my mantra for
decades; the way to healthy fish is three steps, 1.
Clean water, 2. Clear Water, and last but not least 3.
Clean water. I learned a long time ago if you take
care of your water your fish will be health. I don't
believe in dumping a lot of stuff in to the water, I
never have and never will.

Your approach to your fish seems similar to mine except
that you can't use Melafix where appropriate. Are you
affected by contact only or does the aroma cause
problems also?

Have a great day.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------------------



Cichlidiot wrote:
>
> Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
> proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
> not intended. Unfortunately, many aquarists seem to be treating Melafix as
> some panacea for all that ails fish, which just is not true. Melafix only
> claims to promote healing of skin and fins. If you read carefully, you
> will note that even though they list off a variety of illnesses, they do
> not claim to cure those illnesses, only promote healing of damaged tissue.
> Thus, it really isn't useful as a prophalactic unless the new fish have
> experienced some sort of wounds or fin damage. Adding it to a tank with
> non-injured fish will probably do no harm, but isn't going to magically
> help with any mystery diseases either. This tendancy of people to use
> Melafix as a panacea combined with my allergies to it makes me rather
> critical of its overuse.
>
> Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
> nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance. I've had
> several cases of beat up fish or fin nipping since I discovered my allergy
> to Melafix. Some of these were rather severe with my cichlids (the fish
> hanging listless at the corner of the tank). All of them recovered when
> moved to a quiet tank with good water quality. No Melafix needed really.
> As for quarantine, observation is best IMO, perhaps combined with feeding
> of medicated food against internal parasites since those can take a while
> to develop external symptoms.
>
> My approach to sick fish is pretty much similar to beat up fish. Move them
> to a quiet, clean hospital tank. Observe for symptoms and then apply the
> most appropriate medication given the symptoms. I also tend to prefer the
> medicated food approach when that is indicated, particularly for suspected
> internal infections. Most recently this was a fish that bloated up
> overnight. The symptoms did not seem consistent with either bacterial or
> parasitic infections known to cause bloat, so I just treated with epsom
> salts for constipation. Sure enough, about 5 days later he passed what
> appeared to be cat hair (which considering I have water loving cats is not
> unlikely). Within a day, all swelling was gone and he was back to his
> previously fiesty self.

[Kay]

Cichlidiot wrote:
> Kay > wrote:
>
>>Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.
>
>
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
>
>
> I, on the other hand, am not a big fan of Melafix. For one, I'm horridly
> allergic to it. For another, it appeared to aggrevate a case of nitrite
> poisoning that was occuring simulataneously with a case of fin rot on some
> of my newly acquired fish.
>
> It also seems a little too snail-oil like for my likings. I've seen no
> real scientific studies to back up the plethora of disorders it claims to
> treat. The only close to scientific study I've seen came to the conclusion
> that it really is only good as a prophalactic treatment with injured fish
> to prevent secondary infections and promote healing.
>
> http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=104

With my fish, I have never expierenced nitrite poinoning. I do use tea
tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was allergic
then that would be another story. We respect it and use it carefully
like medicine.

Tea tree, Myrrth, Pepermint, Lavender and Sweet Majorim have replaced,
bengay, headace meds, anti- bacterial creams anit-fungal medicines, Bone
pain drugs, and nerve pain medicines In my family. I guess I;m lucky not
to be allergic.

Kay

[Kay]

Tom,
I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
I guess its different if there is an allergy.



> Kay and BV,
>
> If you take the time to read all that she has on her site what she uses
> as examples like the people allowing their baby to consume pure tea tree
> essential oil. (Melafix is only 1% tea tree oil) Nothing in the adverse
> effects area deals with fish; just Humans, dogs, cats and birds. The
> one that is really interesting is the bird lady who figured that if a
> little worked a lot would work better and killed her bird. Excuse me,
> who's fault was that. I.E., Golly gee, if 250 mg of antiboitic is
> working pretty good then 2000mg should work even better.
>
> Then there people like Cichlodot that is allergic to it, but you find
> that every where. Cottonpick if you give a teaspoon of salt to a young
> baby it will kill it, but do we stop using salt. Give me a break.
>
> Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying to make a point
> that isn't valid just her opinion. Personally I think that it is great
> stuff and if it will work on Discus fry, it has got to be good and mild,
> because there is hardly any med you can use on Discus fry if they get
> sick, virtually everything kills them. I use it when an if it is needed
> as a first line of defense should something show up on my fish, and I
> certainly use it on new fish when they go into quarantine as one of the
> main meds that I use first on quarantined fish for 14 days when the fish
> come into my possession and go under quarantine whether they show any
> bad signs or not.
>
> It is good stuff. I use it in my soaps also.
>
> Tom L.L.
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Kay wrote:
>
>> BenignVanilla wrote:
>>
>>> "Kay" > wrote in message
>>> news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
>>>
>>>> Tom,
>>>>
>>>> She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I would
>>>> be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
>>>> have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>>>
>>> BV.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.
>>
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
>>
>>
>> Kay
>>

[Kay]

Cichlidiot wrote:

> Tom L. La Bron > wrote:
>
>>Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying
>>to make a point that isn't valid just her opinion.
>>Personally I think that it is great stuff and if it
>>will work on Discus fry, it has got to be good and
>>mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on
>>Discus fry if they get sick, virtually everything kills
>>them. I use it when an if it is needed as a first line
>>of defense should something show up on my fish, and I
>>certainly use it on new fish when they go into
>>quarantine as one of the main meds that I use first on
>>quarantined fish for 14 days when the fish come into my
>>possession and go under quarantine whether they show
>>any bad signs or not.
>
>
> Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
> proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
> not intended. Unfortunately, many aquarists seem to be treating Melafix as
> some panacea for all that ails fish, which just is not true. Melafix only
> claims to promote healing of skin and fins. If you read carefully, you
> will note that even though they list off a variety of illnesses, they do
> not claim to cure those illnesses, only promote healing of damaged tissue.
> Thus, it really isn't useful as a prophalactic unless the new fish have
> experienced some sort of wounds or fin damage. Adding it to a tank with
> non-injured fish will probably do no harm, but isn't going to magically
> help with any mystery diseases either. This tendancy of people to use
> Melafix as a panacea combined with my allergies to it makes me rather
> critical of its overuse.
>
> Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
> nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance. I've had
> several cases of beat up fish or fin nipping since I discovered my allergy
> to Melafix. Some of these were rather severe with my cichlids (the fish
> hanging listless at the corner of the tank). All of them recovered when
> moved to a quiet tank with good water quality. No Melafix needed really.
> As for quarantine, observation is best IMO, perhaps combined with feeding
> of medicated food against internal parasites since those can take a while
> to develop external symptoms.
>
> My approach to sick fish is pretty much similar to beat up fish. Move them
> to a quiet, clean hospital tank. Observe for symptoms and then apply the
> most appropriate medication given the symptoms. I also tend to prefer the
> medicated food approach when that is indicated, particularly for suspected
> internal infections. Most recently this was a fish that bloated up
> overnight. The symptoms did not seem consistent with either bacterial or
> parasitic infections known to cause bloat, so I just treated with epsom
> salts for constipation. Sure enough, about 5 days later he passed what
> appeared to be cat hair (which considering I have water loving cats is not
> unlikely). Within a day, all swelling was gone and he was back to his
> previously fiesty self.


Speaking of medicated food. I live in chicago near midway airport and so
far I have not seen this medcated food for sale in the LFS I have been
in. Is there a reason why these medicated foods are not in alot of
stores? I have checked chain and family owned shops where I live. So far
I have never needed it but, I have read alot about it and wanted to see
who had it and how much.

People have told me to buy the meds and soak fish food in it, but what
meds and how much is to general if I ever needed it.

Kay

[[email protected]]

Absolutely. Pristine water. I am trying to convince people that a "hospital" or
quarantine tank should be a minimum of a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub (or larger like 100
gallon stock tank for koi).
And the best "meds" for abraded skin is a bit of salt. Just like we are told to
gargle with salt water for canker sore or sore throat.

Ingrid

Cichlidiot > wrote:
>Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
>proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
>not intended.

>Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
>nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Kay,

There are always going to be people allergic to
something. I am on several soap listservs and there is
always someone who is allergic to something, but that
doesn't make it bad for the rest of us. I'm sorry, but
that it their problem to read the label and be careful.
Most 100% essential oils can be dangerous if used
improperly, Wintergreen being one of the worse of them
all, which makes using Wintergreen fragrance oil a
better choice.

I have been using Tea Tree oil for my fish long before
Melafix, so I know personally it works, but before
Melafix I never suggested any one use it, because Tea
Tree oil can be used improperly. What I find
interesting is that it is referred to as snail-oil when
there has been a lot of research done with it, just not
in the states, because of its herbal connection. We
here in the states are too hooked on scientific meds,
which for most part come from natural sources to begin
with, but that information is very seldom released.

I make an eye-pillow with a combination of herbals and
spices that works great for headaches and another one
as a sleep aid. But are all labeled, that if you have
any plant allergies you need to see the ingredient listing.

Tom L.L.

Kay wrote:
> Tom,
> I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
> childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
> for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
> a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
> After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
> I guess its different if there is an allergy.
>
>
>
>> Kay and BV,
>>
>> If you take the time to read all that she has on her site what she
>> uses as examples like the people allowing their baby to consume pure
>> tea tree essential oil. (Melafix is only 1% tea tree oil) Nothing in
>> the adverse effects area deals with fish; just Humans, dogs, cats and
>> birds. The one that is really interesting is the bird lady who
>> figured that if a little worked a lot would work better and killed her
>> bird. Excuse me, who's fault was that. I.E., Golly gee, if 250 mg of
>> antiboitic is working pretty good then 2000mg should work even better.
>>
>> Then there people like Cichlodot that is allergic to it, but you find
>> that every where. Cottonpick if you give a teaspoon of salt to a
>> young baby it will kill it, but do we stop using salt. Give me a break.
>>
>> Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying to make a
>> point that isn't valid just her opinion. Personally I think that it is
>> great stuff and if it will work on Discus fry, it has got to be good
>> and mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on Discus fry if
>> they get sick, virtually everything kills them. I use it when an if
>> it is needed as a first line of defense should something show up on my
>> fish, and I certainly use it on new fish when they go into quarantine
>> as one of the main meds that I use first on quarantined fish for 14
>> days when the fish come into my possession and go under quarantine
>> whether they show any bad signs or not.
>>
>> It is good stuff. I use it in my soaps also.
>>
>> Tom L.L.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Kay wrote:
>>
>>> BenignVanilla wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Kay" > wrote in message
>>>> news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
>>>>
>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>> She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces that
>>>>> have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>>>>
>>>> BV.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.
>>>
>>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
>>>
>>>
>>> Kay
>>>
>

[Cichlidiot]

Kay > wrote:
> Tom,
> I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
> childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
> for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
> a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
> After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
> I guess its different if there is an allergy.

Heh, I'm allergic to lavender as well, about the same symptoms as Melafix.
Reddened skin with contact, sneezing my fool head off and burning, watery
eyes like crazy. I can even tell when the LFS has used Melafix before the
smell hits me as my eyes start watering and my nose stuffs up. The
symptoms occur even when I am taking allergy medicines (which control my
mite/insect allergy, otherwise I'd be sneezing constantly). I do have
severe allergy problems though. You should see how my left arm looks right
now from Monday's recycling project... little red welts all over from the
bug exposure when I recycled 2 months worth of papers that had been
stacked in a corner. And I even took precautions to take my meds a couple
hours before and clean up right after to minimize allergen exposure, but
once I get bit, I usually get welts. At least it wasn't fleas, then I'd
have red scars for months.

Problem is that most "standard" skin tests for allergies in the USA don't
include very many ornamental plants unless they're a major wind-born
pollen producer. Also, they don't test plant oils, at least not in the
test I took. So people who might have these allergies could not just go to
a doctor for a skin test to rule them out (the blood test requires recent
exposure to the allergen to register the antibodies in the blood). I
actually registered below threshold on many of the pollen tests, but get
me around any strong perfumes, aroma therapy, essential oils, etc and I
start stuffing up within minutes. So I think a good thing to ask people
before advocating essential oil use is if they've had allergy problems
with perfumes or aroma therapies, then warn them to proceed with caution
if they have. The mints by the way are usually fine for me, it's just the
teas and lavender I've had problems with, along with rose.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Cichlidiot,

The reason you probably don't have any problem with the
mints is that they don't use essential oils they use
only synthetics to reproduce the smell and taste.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------

Cichlidiot wrote:
> Kay > wrote:
>
>>Tom,
>>I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
>>childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
>>for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
>>a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
>>After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
>>I guess its different if there is an allergy.
>
>
> Heh, I'm allergic to lavender as well, about the same symptoms as Melafix.
> Reddened skin with contact, sneezing my fool head off and burning, watery
> eyes like crazy. I can even tell when the LFS has used Melafix before the
> smell hits me as my eyes start watering and my nose stuffs up. The
> symptoms occur even when I am taking allergy medicines (which control my
> mite/insect allergy, otherwise I'd be sneezing constantly). I do have
> severe allergy problems though. You should see how my left arm looks right
> now from Monday's recycling project... little red welts all over from the
> bug exposure when I recycled 2 months worth of papers that had been
> stacked in a corner. And I even took precautions to take my meds a couple
> hours before and clean up right after to minimize allergen exposure, but
> once I get bit, I usually get welts. At least it wasn't fleas, then I'd
> have red scars for months.
>
> Problem is that most "standard" skin tests for allergies in the USA don't
> include very many ornamental plants unless they're a major wind-born
> pollen producer. Also, they don't test plant oils, at least not in the
> test I took. So people who might have these allergies could not just go to
> a doctor for a skin test to rule them out (the blood test requires recent
> exposure to the allergen to register the antibodies in the blood). I
> actually registered below threshold on many of the pollen tests, but get
> me around any strong perfumes, aroma therapy, essential oils, etc and I
> start stuffing up within minutes. So I think a good thing to ask people
> before advocating essential oil use is if they've had allergy problems
> with perfumes or aroma therapies, then warn them to proceed with caution
> if they have. The mints by the way are usually fine for me, it's just the
> teas and lavender I've had problems with, along with rose.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
>And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
>specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
>kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
>Kay

Hmmm, well if you "refuse to believe" what's the point of this
conversation? ;o)

I purchased some trap door snails from a local dealer, don't know where she
got them, don't know if she added water from her pond to their small
holding tub under her deck, don't know if some bird pooped in there..... I
brought them home and dumped several of them in an aquarium, and the rest
went into a fishless holding tank outside. The goldfish in the aquarium got
blackspot and died. Those snails were the only new thing added to the tank
other than tap water w/dechlor.

I don't buy snails any more, too long a quarantine time to get the black
spot parasite out of them in a fishless environment.

Personally, I haven't knowingly noticed a problem from the average pond
snail, but sticking my head in the sand isn't gonna prevent something if it
is there. I treat new plants with a strong dose of PP, knocks off of the
adult snails and kills any parasites, with the hope that any eggs that
might survive, hatch parasite free till eaten. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Kay]

Tom,
I have family memembers alergic to some oils but so far they are lucky
enough to find another one to replace the one causisng problems. I also
have used tea tree oil in an aquarium to.

Kay



Tom L. La Bron wrote:
> Kay,
>
> There are always going to be people allergic to something. I am on
> several soap listservs and there is always someone who is allergic to
> something, but that doesn't make it bad for the rest of us. I'm sorry,
> but that it their problem to read the label and be careful. Most 100%
> essential oils can be dangerous if used improperly, Wintergreen being
> one of the worse of them all, which makes using Wintergreen fragrance
> oil a better choice.
>
> I have been using Tea Tree oil for my fish long before Melafix, so I
> know personally it works, but before Melafix I never suggested any one
> use it, because Tea Tree oil can be used improperly. What I find
> interesting is that it is referred to as snail-oil when there has been a
> lot of research done with it, just not in the states, because of its
> herbal connection. We here in the states are too hooked on scientific
> meds, which for most part come from natural sources to begin with, but
> that information is very seldom released.
>
> I make an eye-pillow with a combination of herbals and spices that works
> great for headaches and another one as a sleep aid. But are all
> labeled, that if you have any plant allergies you need to see the
> ingredient listing.
>
> Tom L.L.
>
> Kay wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>> I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
>> childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
>> for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she
>> was a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for
>> me. After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago.
>> again I guess its different if there is an allergy.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kay and BV,
>>>
>>> If you take the time to read all that she has on her site what she
>>> uses as examples like the people allowing their baby to consume pure
>>> tea tree essential oil. (Melafix is only 1% tea tree oil) Nothing in
>>> the adverse effects area deals with fish; just Humans, dogs, cats
>>> and birds. The one that is really interesting is the bird lady who
>>> figured that if a little worked a lot would work better and killed
>>> her bird. Excuse me, who's fault was that. I.E., Golly gee, if 250
>>> mg of antiboitic is working pretty good then 2000mg should work even
>>> better.
>>>
>>> Then there people like Cichlodot that is allergic to it, but you find
>>> that every where. Cottonpick if you give a teaspoon of salt to a
>>> young baby it will kill it, but do we stop using salt. Give me a break.
>>>
>>> Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying to make a
>>> point that isn't valid just her opinion. Personally I think that it
>>> is great stuff and if it will work on Discus fry, it has got to be
>>> good and mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on Discus
>>> fry if they get sick, virtually everything kills them. I use it when
>>> an if it is needed as a first line of defense should something show
>>> up on my fish, and I certainly use it on new fish when they go into
>>> quarantine as one of the main meds that I use first on quarantined
>>> fish for 14 days when the fish come into my possession and go under
>>> quarantine whether they show any bad signs or not.
>>>
>>> It is good stuff. I use it in my soaps also.
>>>
>>> Tom L.L.
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>> Kay wrote:
>>>
>>>> BenignVanilla wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Kay" > wrote in message
>>>>> news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.
>>>>>
>>>>> BV.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.
>>>>
>>>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kay
>>>>
>>

[Kay]

Oh my roses too! I feel for you!

Kay


Cichlidiot wrote:

> Kay > wrote:
>
>>Tom,
>>I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
>>childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
>>for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
>>a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
>>After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
>>I guess its different if there is an allergy.
>
>
> Heh, I'm allergic to lavender as well, about the same symptoms as Melafix.
> Reddened skin with contact, sneezing my fool head off and burning, watery
> eyes like crazy. I can even tell when the LFS has used Melafix before the
> smell hits me as my eyes start watering and my nose stuffs up. The
> symptoms occur even when I am taking allergy medicines (which control my
> mite/insect allergy, otherwise I'd be sneezing constantly). I do have
> severe allergy problems though. You should see how my left arm looks right
> now from Monday's recycling project... little red welts all over from the
> bug exposure when I recycled 2 months worth of papers that had been
> stacked in a corner. And I even took precautions to take my meds a couple
> hours before and clean up right after to minimize allergen exposure, but
> once I get bit, I usually get welts. At least it wasn't fleas, then I'd
> have red scars for months.
>
> Problem is that most "standard" skin tests for allergies in the USA don't
> include very many ornamental plants unless they're a major wind-born
> pollen producer. Also, they don't test plant oils, at least not in the
> test I took. So people who might have these allergies could not just go to
> a doctor for a skin test to rule them out (the blood test requires recent
> exposure to the allergen to register the antibodies in the blood). I
> actually registered below threshold on many of the pollen tests, but get
> me around any strong perfumes, aroma therapy, essential oils, etc and I
> start stuffing up within minutes. So I think a good thing to ask people
> before advocating essential oil use is if they've had allergy problems
> with perfumes or aroma therapies, then warn them to proceed with caution
> if they have. The mints by the way are usually fine for me, it's just the
> teas and lavender I've had problems with, along with rose.

[Benign Vanilla]

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Kay and BV,
>
> If you take the time to read all that she has on her
> site what she uses as examples like the people allowing
> their baby to consume pure tea tree essential oil.
<snip>

I am very interested in this topic because my wife makes a living marketing
Tea tree oil products. We use nothing but these products in our home for
numerous reasons, so I was wondering what the story was. I'll take my kids
drinking some of these products over any other house hold cleaner, any day.

BV.

[Benign Vanilla]

"Cichlidiot" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
> proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
> not intended.
<snip>

I think this is Tom's point, and I agree on all accounts, and for all
treatments. Except for water, you can't have too much clean water.

>Unfortunately, many aquarists seem to be treating Melafix as
> some panacea for all that ails fish, which just is not true.
<snip>

Which is also my fear of Salt...Just google salt up on rec.ponds and you'll
see many ponders saying things like, "My Koi ate a piece of frog today...so
dosed with salt to be sure his stomach is OK."

<snip>

> Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
> nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance.

That may be the only generalization that I'll agree to whole heartedly. Take
care of your water, not your fish. Who said that years ago?

<snip>

BV.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> Absolutely. Pristine water. I am trying to convince people that a
"hospital" or
> quarantine tank should be a minimum of a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub (or
larger like 100
> gallon stock tank for koi).
> And the best "meds" for abraded skin is a bit of salt. Just like we are
told to
> gargle with salt water for canker sore or sore throat.
>
> Ingrid

Ingrid,

You tend not to respond to my posts so I don't know if I am killfiled or
what, but as far as Salt is concerned, I'd love to see a treatise on the
subject. And don't get me wrong, I am not being a smart-ass. I would
seriously love to read/love to publish on my site anything someone could
write on the pro's/con's of salt, the effects, the dangers, the benefits.

I think such a document would be a great reference, and I think since you
are very pro-salt you would be a great source to begin it.

What do you think?

BV.

[Benign Vanilla]

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
<snip>
> I do use tea
> tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was allergic
> then that would be another story. We respect it and use it carefully
> like medicine.
<snip>

My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household cleaning
products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After using
them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better then the
supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your house,
etc.

We are definately a TT Oil household.

BV.

[Benign Vanilla]

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Kay,
>
> There are always going to be people allergic to
> something. I am on several soap listservs and there is
> always someone who is allergic to something, but that
> doesn't make it bad for the rest of us.
<snip>

I know this will sound like a shameless plug, and I guess it is...My wife
has a customer (she markets TT Oil household products) that is allergic to
100's of things...she loves the TT Oil products without scent.

BV.

[Cichlidiot]

Benign Vanilla > wrote:
> You tend not to respond to my posts so I don't know if I am killfiled or
> what, but as far as Salt is concerned, I'd love to see a treatise on the
> subject. And don't get me wrong, I am not being a smart-ass. I would
> seriously love to read/love to publish on my site anything someone could
> write on the pro's/con's of salt, the effects, the dangers, the benefits.

> I think such a document would be a great reference, and I think since you
> are very pro-salt you would be a great source to begin it.

> What do you think?

> BV.

About the only thing I consistantly use salt for (and know that it works)
is to counteract nitrite poisoning. The chloride ions compete with the
nitrite ions for uptake across the gills. By preventing nitrite uptake,
the nitrite can't bind to the hemoglobin in the fish to form methemoglobin
(which can't transport oxygen). The actual amount of salt needed is very
low. I use 1 teaspoon per 10-20g per 1ppm nitrite. The websites I've found
have disagreed on the exact amount needed, so I just have my own rule of
thumb that's probably overkill, but far less than many recommend for wound
treatment. This has saved fish of mine in the past when I went through
cycles or mini-cycles, had filter crashes, etc.

[Cichlidiot]

Benign Vanilla > wrote:

> I know this will sound like a shameless plug, and I guess it is...My wife
> has a customer (she markets TT Oil household products) that is allergic to
> 100's of things...she loves the TT Oil products without scent.

Well, it all depends on the product and type of allergies too. Like tanic
acid products derived from teas are really good at denaturing mite
proteins and other allergens, so spritzing carpets and furniture with such
would actually improve things for someone with such allergies. As long as
they aren't allergic to the cleaning product, heh.

[jammer]

What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
spots but what else can it be used for?






On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Kay" > wrote in message
>news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
><snip>
>> I do use tea
>> tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was
allergic
>> then that would be another story. We respect it and use it
carefully
>> like medicine.
><snip>
>
>My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household
cleaning
>products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After
using
>them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better
then the
>supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your
house,
>etc.
>
>We are definately a TT Oil household.
>
>BV.
>

[Benign Vanilla]

"jammer" > wrote in message
...
>
> What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
> spots but what else can it be used for?
<snip>

As it relates to ponds, nothing. In my home, every product we use has TT Oil
in it. Every single one. We no longer use any bleaches or other similar
products in our home. I don't want to SPAM the group, so if you are
interested email me directly.

BV.

[Kay]

I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer <it also treats any
foot or toe nail fungus> If my basement floods I have a diffuser and I
diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus that
might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
and after they took the staples out.

Kay

jammer wrote:
> What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
> spots but what else can it be used for?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Kay" > wrote in message
>>news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
>><snip>
>>
>>>I do use tea
>>>tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was
>
> allergic
>
>>>then that would be another story. We respect it and use it
>
> carefully
>
>>>like medicine.
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household
>
> cleaning
>
>>products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After
>
> using
>
>>them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better
>
> then the
>
>>supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your
>
> house,
>
>>etc.
>>
>>We are definately a TT Oil household.
>>
>>BV.
>>
>
>

[Nedra]

OK ... now my curiosity has the better of me. Where can I buy some
of this miracle TT oil? You say your wife sells it, BV? or Kay,
where do you buy it?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Kay" > wrote in message
news:k12tc.4389$Ly.1091@attbi_s01...
> I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
> toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
> advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer <it also treats any
> foot or toe nail fungus> If my basement floods I have a diffuser and I
> diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus that
> might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
> and after they took the staples out.
>
> Kay
>
> jammer wrote:
> > What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
> > spots but what else can it be used for?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Kay" > wrote in message
> >>news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>I do use tea
> >>>tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was
> >
> > allergic
> >
> >>>then that would be another story. We respect it and use it
> >
> > carefully
> >
> >>>like medicine.
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household
> >
> > cleaning
> >
> >>products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After
> >
> > using
> >
> >>them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better
> >
> > then the
> >
> >>supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your
> >
> > house,
> >
> >>etc.
> >>
> >>We are definately a TT Oil household.
> >>
> >>BV.
> >>
> >
> >
>

[jammer]

On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:47:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
> wrote:

>
>"jammer" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for
hot
>> spots but what else can it be used for?
><snip>
>
>As it relates to ponds, nothing. In my home, every product we use has
TT Oil
>in it. Every single one. We no longer use any bleaches or other
similar
>products in our home. I don't want to SPAM the group, so if you are
>interested email me directly.
>
>BV.

Ok, thank you.
>

[jammer]

Cool, thanks!




On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:42:24 GMT, Kay > wrote:

>I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
>toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
>advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer <it also treats
any
>foot or toe nail fungus> If my basement floods I have a diffuser and
I
>diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus
that
>might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
>and after they took the staples out.
>
>Kay
>
>jammer wrote:
>> What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for
hot
>> spots but what else can it be used for?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

[Benign Vanilla]

"Nedra" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> OK ... now my curiosity has the better of me. Where can I buy some
> of this miracle TT oil? You say your wife sells it, BV? or Kay,
> where do you buy it?

<snip>

Nedra,

I don't want to SPAM the group with the details, so I'll email you off line.

BV.

[Kay]

I buy mine from www.naturesgift.com. Most heaalth food stores will also
carry it. I have found that any tea tree oil I buy has about the same
quality. Reason I order from natures gift is because I'm picky about
sweet majorium oil which I use alot for pain and natures gift majorium
is the best in my experience. One 15 mil lasts for me about a year or more.

Kay


Nedra wrote:
> OK ... now my curiosity has the better of me. Where can I buy some
> of this miracle TT oil? You say your wife sells it, BV? or Kay,
> where do you buy it?
>
> Nedra
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>
> "Kay" > wrote in message
> news:k12tc.4389$Ly.1091@attbi_s01...
>
>>I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
>>toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
>>advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer <it also treats any
>>foot or toe nail fungus> If my basement floods I have a diffuser and I
>>diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus that
>>might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
>>and after they took the staples out.
>>
>>Kay
>>
>>jammer wrote:
>>
>>>What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
>>>spots but what else can it be used for?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Kay" > wrote in message
>>>>news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>I do use tea
>>>>>tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was
>>>
>>>allergic
>>>
>>>
>>>>>then that would be another story. We respect it and use it
>>>
>>>carefully
>>>
>>>
>>>>>like medicine.
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household
>>>
>>>cleaning
>>>
>>>
>>>>products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After
>>>
>>>using
>>>
>>>
>>>>them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better
>>>
>>>then the
>>>
>>>
>>>>supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your
>>>
>>>house,
>>>
>>>
>>>>etc.
>>>>
>>>>We are definately a TT Oil household.
>>>>
>>>>BV.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

[Lee B.]

Jan, another method to handle "bugs" is just plain ol' bleach water, then
dechlor the plants afterwards. Many folks don't have PP, or get the
heebie-jeebies just thinking about it, but everyone can add an extra "glunk"
of bleach to a tub of water and let things soak a bit, then let them soak
again in (heavily) dechlored water before adding it to the pond. I'm up to
my butt in common pond snails this year, and I have NO idea where such a
heavy concentration came from, as I haven't added any plants in over two
years! I hate snails . . .

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> >I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
> >And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
> >specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
> >kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
> >Kay
>
> Hmmm, well if you "refuse to believe" what's the point of this
> conversation? ;o)
>
> I purchased some trap door snails from a local dealer, don't know where
she
> got them, don't know if she added water from her pond to their small
> holding tub under her deck, don't know if some bird pooped in there..... I
> brought them home and dumped several of them in an aquarium, and the rest
> went into a fishless holding tank outside. The goldfish in the aquarium
got
> blackspot and died. Those snails were the only new thing added to the tank
> other than tap water w/dechlor.
>
> I don't buy snails any more, too long a quarantine time to get the black
> spot parasite out of them in a fishless environment.
>
> Personally, I haven't knowingly noticed a problem from the average pond
> snail, but sticking my head in the sand isn't gonna prevent something if
it
> is there. I treat new plants with a strong dose of PP, knocks off of the
> adult snails and kills any parasites, with the hope that any eggs that
> might survive, hatch parasite free till eaten. ~ jan
>
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Nedra]

That will be fine, BV. Waiting ...

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nedra" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > OK ... now my curiosity has the better of me. Where can I buy some
> > of this miracle TT oil? You say your wife sells it, BV? or Kay,
> > where do you buy it?
>
> <snip>
>
> Nedra,
>
> I don't want to SPAM the group with the details, so I'll email you off
line.
>
> BV.
>
>

[dkat]

I can't get my fish to let me keep snails (or duck week). I finally started
a little patio water garden just so that I could keep some of both alive.

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> Jan, another method to handle "bugs" is just plain ol' bleach water, then
> dechlor the plants afterwards. Many folks don't have PP, or get the
> heebie-jeebies just thinking about it, but everyone can add an extra
"glunk"
> of bleach to a tub of water and let things soak a bit, then let them soak
> again in (heavily) dechlored water before adding it to the pond. I'm up
to
> my butt in common pond snails this year, and I have NO idea where such a
> heavy concentration came from, as I haven't added any plants in over two
> years! I hate snails . . .
>
> Lee
>
> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > >I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
> > >And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
> > >specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
> > >kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
> > >Kay
> >
> > Hmmm, well if you "refuse to believe" what's the point of this
> > conversation? ;o)
> >
> > I purchased some trap door snails from a local dealer, don't know where
> she
> > got them, don't know if she added water from her pond to their small
> > holding tub under her deck, don't know if some bird pooped in there.....
I
> > brought them home and dumped several of them in an aquarium, and the
rest
> > went into a fishless holding tank outside. The goldfish in the aquarium
> got
> > blackspot and died. Those snails were the only new thing added to the
tank
> > other than tap water w/dechlor.
> >
> > I don't buy snails any more, too long a quarantine time to get the black
> > spot parasite out of them in a fishless environment.
> >
> > Personally, I haven't knowingly noticed a problem from the average pond
> > snail, but sticking my head in the sand isn't gonna prevent something if
> it
> > is there. I treat new plants with a strong dose of PP, knocks off of the
> > adult snails and kills any parasites, with the hope that any eggs that
> > might survive, hatch parasite free till eaten. ~ jan
> >
> >
> > (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

People should have the same heebie-jeebies about bleach. Just because we
can drink it in small amounts doesn't mean it can't cause problems over
time. IMHO, PP (and there's been a later thread now directing people where
to get it) is far less toxic in the liquid form than full strength liquid
bleach. I can easily detox it with hydrogen peroxide, and there are no
stinky, eye watering, fumes. The truth is, both should be handled with
care. ~ jan

>On 28 May 2004 14:22:52 -0500, "Lee B." > wrote:

>Jan, another method to handle "bugs" is just plain ol' bleach water, then
>dechlor the plants afterwards. Many folks don't have PP, or get the
>heebie-jeebies just thinking about it, but everyone can add an extra "glunk"
>of bleach to a tub of water and let things soak a bit, then let them soak
>again in (heavily) dechlored water before adding it to the pond. I'm up to
>my butt in common pond snails this year, and I have NO idea where such a
>heavy concentration came from, as I haven't added any plants in over two
>years! I hate snails . . .
>
>Lee
>
>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
>> >I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
>> >And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
>> >specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
>> >kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
>> >Kay
>>
>> Hmmm, well if you "refuse to believe" what's the point of this
>> conversation? ;o)
>>
>> I purchased some trap door snails from a local dealer, don't know where
>she
>> got them, don't know if she added water from her pond to their small
>> holding tub under her deck, don't know if some bird pooped in there..... I
>> brought them home and dumped several of them in an aquarium, and the rest
>> went into a fishless holding tank outside. The goldfish in the aquarium
>got
>> blackspot and died. Those snails were the only new thing added to the tank
>> other than tap water w/dechlor.
>>
>> I don't buy snails any more, too long a quarantine time to get the black
>> spot parasite out of them in a fishless environment.
>>
>> Personally, I haven't knowingly noticed a problem from the average pond
>> snail, but sticking my head in the sand isn't gonna prevent something if
>it
>> is there. I treat new plants with a strong dose of PP, knocks off of the
>> adult snails and kills any parasites, with the hope that any eggs that
>> might survive, hatch parasite free till eaten. ~ jan
>>
>>
>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[[email protected]]

I really, really agree. People have been scared off from using PP by a couple people
who have killed all their fish tossing DRY PP into their ponds and by one person
talking about an emergency room visit of somebody screwing around with PP. I and
everyone I know who uses PP have never been harmed by handling it. The dry PP is
made into a liquid stock solution which lasts for 4-5 years if not longer. I am one
of those who gets asthmatic reactions to bleach.... but not to PP.
It is just soooo easy to handle PP correctly, just follow directions once every 4-5
years when making up the liquid stock solution. Then write down on the bottle how
much to use in your pond. PP is extremely effective against so many pathogens and
against columnaris. There are people in aquatics who even recommend 1/2 strength PP
once a week as a "tonic". And when followed with a quantity of peroxide results in
high oxygen levels. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>People should have the same heebie-jeebies about bleach. Just because we
>can drink it in small amounts doesn't mean it can't cause problems over
>time. IMHO, PP (and there's been a later thread now directing people where
>to get it) is far less toxic in the liquid form than full strength liquid
>bleach. I can easily detox it with hydrogen peroxide, and there are no
>stinky, eye watering, fumes. The truth is, both should be handled with
>care. ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#POTASSIUM
I should add... PP was used against athletes foot fungus very successfully... until
"modern" medicines were developed that didnt stain the feet. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:

>People should have the same heebie-jeebies about bleach. Just because we
>can drink it in small amounts doesn't mean it can't cause problems over
>time. IMHO, PP (and there's been a later thread now directing people where
>to get it) is far less toxic in the liquid form than full strength liquid
>bleach. I can easily detox it with hydrogen peroxide, and there are no
>stinky, eye watering, fumes. The truth is, both should be handled with
>care. ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[jammer]

Can i sprinkle salt around the pond to kill these creeps? You use salt
in your ponds so i don't see the problem.

[Snooze]

"jammer" > wrote in message
...
> Can i sprinkle salt around the pond to kill these creeps? You use salt
> in your ponds so i don't see the problem.

Depends on what kind of slug salter you are. Pouring the entire container of
salt on the little guy, not such a hot idea. It doesn't take much salt to
dehydrate a slug and kill it, just a pinch. That's not likely to alter the
pond's salt levels significantly. If you have a concern, just squash 'em or
do what I do, toss them over the fence. :)

Snooze

[RainLover]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:22:00 GMT, "Snooze" >
wrote:

>
>"jammer" > wrote in message
...
>> Can i sprinkle salt around the pond to kill these creeps? You use salt
>> in your ponds so i don't see the problem.
>
>Depends on what kind of slug salter you are. Pouring the entire container of
>salt on the little guy, not such a hot idea. It doesn't take much salt to
>dehydrate a slug and kill it, just a pinch. That's not likely to alter the
>pond's salt levels significantly. If you have a concern, just squash 'em or
>do what I do, toss them over the fence. :)
>
>Snooze

So YOU are the reason I have so damn *^&$*# many SLUGS in my GARDEN!

You're such a f*%& A$$^&*((


I hate you,

Snooze's Neighbor.

[Ka30P]

Jammer, how big are these critters?
If they are fairly small you can toss them to the fish for instant fish food. I
used to not be able to pick up worms and slugs but since I have had the pond I
will carry a slug across the yard and toss it in (my brother would be so
proud!).


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[Mary kate]

Place a penny about one every foot around your pond....it's an old trick
learned with doing flower beds :-) It works great.

[Gareee©]

"Mary kate" > wrote in message
...
> Place a penny about one every foot around your pond....it's an old trick
> learned with doing flower beds :-) It works great.

What does that do?

[Snooze]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> "Mary kate" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Place a penny about one every foot around your pond....it's an old trick
> > learned with doing flower beds :-) It works great.
>
> What does that do?
>
>
The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails & slugs
secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong enough to
discourage them from crossing the copper. But more then likely, they'll just
go around the penny. A thin copper wire laid around the perimeter of the
pond or flower bed would work just as well. As long as there are no snails &
slugs on the inside of the enclosed wired off area.

Rose gardeners will often wrap copper wire or copper tape around the base of
the rose canes to prevent snails from climbing up.

Snooze

[Gareee©]

Good to know.. thanks!

"Snooze" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gareee©" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Mary kate" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Place a penny about one every foot around your pond....it's an old
trick
> > > learned with doing flower beds :-) It works great.
> >
> > What does that do?
> >
> >
> The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails & slugs
> secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong enough
to
> discourage them from crossing the copper. But more then likely, they'll
just
> go around the penny. A thin copper wire laid around the perimeter of the
> pond or flower bed would work just as well. As long as there are no snails
&
> slugs on the inside of the enclosed wired off area.
>
> Rose gardeners will often wrap copper wire or copper tape around the base
of
> the rose canes to prevent snails from climbing up.
>
> Snooze
>
>

[jammer]

Well i rarely see them, but see the damage they are causing. I killed
one that was about 4 inches long! But i am not picking them up. I
wanted to sprinkle a little salt on the dirt a foot away from the
water to kill the slugs as they go to the plants. Is that safe?




On 17 Jun 2004 13:18:41 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:

>
>Jammer, how big are these critters?
>If they are fairly small you can toss them to the fish for instant
fish food. I
>used to not be able to pick up worms and slugs but since I have had
the pond I
>will carry a slug across the yard and toss it in (my brother would be
so
>proud!).
>
>
>kathy :-)
><A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[George Thompson]

might not be slugs! I just planted out my vegitables etc around my
pond. All of a sudden they got munched, so I did the usual. My usual
is:

Scatter dried oats around the base of any plants - this dehyrates them
and doesn't cause problems to birds.

This didn't work so:

Dig a small hole & place a steepsided cup into it. Lay a lid over the
top propped up by a small stone. Fill with (dregs of) ale this
attracts the slugs which get quite a humane death (IMHO)

Got a few slugs, but oddly enough I also caught a huge catapillar
(probably spelt wrong). Fat on my radishes.

Plants are now recovering.

jammer > wrote in message >...
> Well i rarely see them, but see the damage they are causing. I killed
> one that was about 4 inches long! But i am not picking them up. I
> wanted to sprinkle a little salt on the dirt a foot away from the
> water to kill the slugs as they go to the plants. Is that safe?

[Benign Vanilla]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gareee©" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Mary kate" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Place a penny about one every foot around your pond....it's an old
trick
> > > learned with doing flower beds :-) It works great.
> >
> > What does that do?
> >
> >
> The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails & slugs
> secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong enough
to
> discourage them from crossing the copper. But more then likely, they'll
just
> go around the penny. A thin copper wire laid around the perimeter of the
> pond or flower bed would work just as well. As long as there are no snails
&
> slugs on the inside of the enclosed wired off area.
>
> Rose gardeners will often wrap copper wire or copper tape around the base
of
> the rose canes to prevent snails from climbing up.

Forgive me...but this sounds like folklore. I checked around google, and it
seems to be common knowledge! How strange! Don't you need two types of metal
to create a current? Weird. You learn something every day. Anyway, I am off
to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some pennies.

BV.

[Ka30P]

BV wrote >>I am off
to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some pennies.<<

Your karma is going to go off the scale ;-)

I use a pellet product around my hosta and impatiens, it is non-toxic to other
critters.
Seems to work just fine. When I had koi I'd toss land snails to them, that is
when I found out koi have teeth!


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[[email protected]]

http://www.miniscience.com/projects/PotatoElectricity/

is the penny 100% copper?

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG7561.html
" Copper is an effective barrier to slugs. Copper strips or tape sold specifically
for slug control can be purchased from garden suppliers. Caution: The sharp edges of
some products may cause safety problems, especially for young children. Copper
barriers are most practical for small gardens and containers.

Diatomaceous earth (tiny fossilized skeletons of ancient aquatic diatoms) is
moderately effective as a slug barrier. When slugs come in contact with diatomaceous
earth, it is abrasive to their skin. Diatomaceous earth is most effective when used
in dry conditions and has little effect when it absorbs moisture.

There are several pesticides that may be used to supplement the above nonchemical
tactics. Iron phosphate (e.g. Escar-Go, Sluggo), applied to the soil as granules, is
a less toxic bait for slugs. Iron phosphate is mixed with a food product that draws
slugs to the bait. Once slugs consume this bait, they stop feeding and die three to
six days later.

Chemical slug baits often contain metaldehyde (e.g. Deadline, Defender), available as
a granular or liquid paste. When metaldehyde is eaten by slugs, it destroys their
ability to move and digest food. Apply it to the soil near slug-infested plants.
Metaldehyde is more effective during warm, dry weather. It is best to apply
metaldehyde after a rain storm but when sunny weather is predicted.

Copper compounds (copper silicate and copper sulfate) are effective repellents. They
are usually mixed with water, then sprayed on plants. Copper products repel slugs but
do not usually kill them. Do not spray copper compounds near baits; slugs will avoid
baits contaminated with them. "



"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>Forgive me...but this sounds like folklore. I checked around google, and it
>seems to be common knowledge! How strange! Don't you need two types of metal
>to create a current? Weird. You learn something every day. Anyway, I am off
>to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some pennies.
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Andrew Burgess]

>> The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails & slugs
>> secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong enough
>to discourage them from crossing the copper.

>Forgive me...but this sounds like folklore. I checked around google, and it
>seems to be common knowledge! How strange! Don't you need two types of metal
>to create a current? Weird. You learn something every day. Anyway, I am off
>to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some pennies.

Copper works to repel snails (1) but I've always doubted the mechanism is electric current.
I suspect copper sulfate and other copper compounds on the penny, copper is highly
toxic to invertebrates.

(1) Organic Gardening magazine once did a comparison of all the snail repellants
on the market and copper foil was the clear winner, might have been the only
one 100% effective, I can't recall...

[jammer]

I am still wanting to cut the affected (ugly) plants and sprinkle salt
around the pond. Cant anyone tell me that would be ok? How about
spritzing with salt water? These are not IN the pond but around it.






On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:05:30 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
> wrote:

>>> The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails &
slugs
>>> secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong
enough
>>to discourage them from crossing the copper.
>
>>Forgive me...but this sounds like folklore. I checked around google,
and it
>>seems to be common knowledge! How strange! Don't you need two types
of metal
>>to create a current? Weird. You learn something every day. Anyway, I
am off
>>to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some
pennies.
>
>Copper works to repel snails (1) but I've always doubted the
mechanism is electric current.
>I suspect copper sulfate and other copper compounds on the penny,
copper is highly
>toxic to invertebrates.
>
>(1) Organic Gardening magazine once did a comparison of all the snail
repellants
>on the market and copper foil was the clear winner, might have been
the only
>one 100% effective, I can't recall...
>

[RichToyBox]

I have used salt to kill slugs, but the way that I have done it, you see the
slug, pour some salt on him and he dehydrates. Pouring salt on the ground
might work if he gets to the salt before the rain, or sprinkler system
dissolves it and washes it into the soil. Salt in the soil works as a good
vegatative inhibitor, in that it will kill plants and prevent new ones from
growing, if the concentration gets high enough. I doubt that salt on the
ground would be very effective.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"jammer" > wrote in message
...
> I am still wanting to cut the affected (ugly) plants and sprinkle salt
> around the pond. Cant anyone tell me that would be ok? How about
> spritzing with salt water? These are not IN the pond but around it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:05:30 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
> > wrote:
>
> >>> The copper on the pennies reacts with the mucus that the snails &
> slugs
> >>> secrete. The reaction creates a slight electrical current, strong
> enough
> >>to discourage them from crossing the copper.
> >
> >>Forgive me...but this sounds like folklore. I checked around google,
> and it
> >>seems to be common knowledge! How strange! Don't you need two types
> of metal
> >>to create a current? Weird. You learn something every day. Anyway, I
> am off
> >>to collect slugs. I plan to power my pump with them and some
> pennies.
> >
> >Copper works to repel snails (1) but I've always doubted the
> mechanism is electric current.
> >I suspect copper sulfate and other copper compounds on the penny,
> copper is highly
> >toxic to invertebrates.
> >
> >(1) Organic Gardening magazine once did a comparison of all the snail
> repellants
> >on the market and copper foil was the clear winner, might have been
> the only
> >one 100% effective, I can't recall...
> >
>

[O3raledale]

One thing that is very good for getting rid of slugs in your garden is a
shallow bowl of beer sunken level with the soil line. Use that old half a
bottle of beer that was left over last night to refill the bowl every other day
or so. Works good but leaves a slimey mess in the bowl. :)
-Pat
They go out smiling

[Ka30P]

Jammer, toads eat slugs! Just wait for your
baby toadlets to grow up and snarf them down.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[jammer]

On 23 Jun 2004 17:45:02 GMT, (Ka30P) wrote:

>
>Jammer, toads eat slugs! Just wait for your
>baby toadlets to grow up and snarf them down.
>
>
>kathy :-)
>algae primer
>http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html


Cool, thank you, Another good reason to raise toads.

(You should see them....teeny ones the size of a low cut pinky nail to
larger ones that i raised indoors and last year's toadpole survivors
and the adults have gone away somewhere. The babies are adorable and
some stay near the pond so i get to see them regularly. The yearlings
are fat and happy and near the back door in the flower beds. I
believe the frog moved on.

[D Kat]

Bud is the best for slug bait (I think it is the hops...)... The only bad
thing about using this method is that if you forget it for a bit you will
find your container filled with a very, VERY bad smelling concoction.....


"O3raledale" > wrote in message
...
> One thing that is very good for getting rid of slugs in your garden is a
> shallow bowl of beer sunken level with the soil line. Use that old half a
> bottle of beer that was left over last night to refill the bowl every
other day
> or so. Works good but leaves a slimey mess in the bowl. :)
> -Pat
> They go out smiling

[Gareee©]

"D Kat" > wrote in message
...
> Bud is the best for slug bait (I think it is the hops...)...


Do they prefer low carb, or regular?


--
Gareee©
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

[bluegill phil]

I have had 1 snail in each riser of my UGFs in 2 55gal tanks for a
long time. Thats eight snails and they keep the risers spotless. I got
them from the creek for that purpose and got a case of ick. Jungle's
ick med fixed that. That was a year ago. Since then everythings cool.
They showed up in my pond but so has a lot of other wildlife. I only
see them above the water level at waterfalls and other shallows
because of the bluegills




On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:48:40 GMT, wrote:

>http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#POTASSIUM
>I should add... PP was used against athletes foot fungus very successfully... until
>"modern" medicines were developed that didnt stain the feet. Ingrid
>
>~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote:
>
>>People should have the same heebie-jeebies about bleach. Just because we
>>can drink it in small amounts doesn't mean it can't cause problems over
>>time. IMHO, PP (and there's been a later thread now directing people where
>>to get it) is far less toxic in the liquid form than full strength liquid
>>bleach. I can easily detox it with hydrogen peroxide, and there are no
>>stinky, eye watering, fumes. The truth is, both should be handled with
>>care. ~ jan
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.