dying fish-need help please

[ray hucek]

I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.

I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.

There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
carried a virus that infected the fish?

I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.

I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.

I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.

Thanks,

Ray

[Ka30P]

Hi Ray,
that's too bad :-(

A few questions before the experts arrive, -

How many fish in the pond and appx. how big are they?
Water test results, exact numbers?
>>malachite green<< This can be fatal to amphibians. Did they die before or
after you treated?
Hope someone has an answer for you.



<< Subject: dying fish-need help please
From: "ray hucek"
Date: Tue, May 18, 2004 10:51 AM
Message-id: >

I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.

I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.

There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
carried a virus that infected the fish?

I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.

I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.

I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.

Thanks,

Ray








>>



kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[joe]

What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?

Joe

On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:

> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.
>
> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
>



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[Go Fig]

In article >,
ray hucek > wrote:

> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.
>
> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.

Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
systems.

I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
copper or dylox and increase aeration.

jay
Tue May 18, 2004




>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
>

[Lee B.]

Sorry to hear about your fish: it's always distressing to watch them die and
not know why. Disease is always a possibility, but the first thing that you
need to check is your water parameters: what are they? At this point, I
would be most concerned about ammonia and pH. Where are you located? What is
the water temp? These things need to be known before anyone can give a
"guesstimate".

Lee

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which
I
> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
>
> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
>

[George]

"Go Fig" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> ray hucek > wrote:
>
>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>
>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>
>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>
>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>
>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.
>>
>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
> quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
> systems.
>
> I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
> copper or dylox and increase aeration.

Malachite green is a copper compound. Before I starting adding chemicals to the
water, it would be wise to determine the water quality first. But my gut
reaction says it could be an imbalance in water quality parameters, specifically
Ph, ammonia, low dissolved oxygen, some kind of chemical poisoning, or a
bacterial infection.

[ray hucek]

Thanks for the reply. I had about 75-80 fish ranging from fry to 6 inches,
but mostly 3-4 ins.

I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

The toad and tadpoles were dead before treating the pond.

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ray,
> that's too bad :-(
>
> A few questions before the experts arrive, -
>
> How many fish in the pond and appx. how big are they?
> Water test results, exact numbers?
> >>malachite green<< This can be fatal to amphibians. Did they die before
or
> after you treated?
> Hope someone has an answer for you.
>
>
>
> << Subject: dying fish-need help please
> From: "ray hucek"
> Date: Tue, May 18, 2004 10:51 AM
> Message-id: >
>
> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which
I
> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
>
> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[ray hucek]

Joe,
Thanks for the reply.

I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray
"joe" > wrote in message
...
> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>
> Joe
>
> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>
> > I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >
> > I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> > old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
> > appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> > listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >
> > There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> > connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> > previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
> > took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
> > off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> > past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> > carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >
> > I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
> > twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> > 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >
> > I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
> >
> > I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[ray hucek]

Jay,
Thanks for the reply. I will try to find the Copper or Dylox. And I will
add in more aeration.

I live in Oklahoma and we did have a short spring. Will the Copper and
Dylox treat the parasites?

with appreciation,
Ray
"Go Fig" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> ray hucek > wrote:
>
> > I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >
> > I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> > old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
> > appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> > listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >
> > There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> > connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> > previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
> > took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
> > off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> > past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> > carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >
> > I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
> > twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> > 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >
> > I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
> >
> > I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
> quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
> systems.
>
> I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
> copper or dylox and increase aeration.
>
> jay
> Tue May 18, 2004
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >

[ray hucek]

George,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

All of the above seem to be descent. PH is a little high, but seem to be
acceptable. What do you think?

Chemical Poisoning-- it would have to be airborne because I don't do any
fertilizing or pesticides in my back yard. And there is no risk of runoff
into the pond. I thought of that when I did the water change. I was
hopeful that doing the water change would have diluted any poisoning taking
place. It didn't seem to work as I lost 3 fish today.

I am going to increase aeration to try to deal with oxygen.

Any ideas about bacterial infections and how to treat them? There isn't any
outward signs on the fish.

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray



"George" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > ray hucek > wrote:
> >
> >> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >>
> >> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> >> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
> >> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> >> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >>
> >> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> >> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> >> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
> >> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
> >> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> >> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> >> carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >>
> >> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
> >> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> >> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >>
> >> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
> >>
> >> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >
> > Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
> > quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
> > systems.
> >
> > I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
> > copper or dylox and increase aeration.
>
> Malachite green is a copper compound. Before I starting adding chemicals
to the
> water, it would be wise to determine the water quality first. But my gut
> reaction says it could be an imbalance in water quality parameters,
specifically
> Ph, ammonia, low dissolved oxygen, some kind of chemical poisoning, or a
> bacterial infection.
>
>

[Go Fig]

In article >, George
> wrote:

> "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > ray hucek > wrote:
> >
> >> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >>
> >> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
> >> years
> >> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> >> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
> >> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >>
> >> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> >> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> >> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which
> >> I
> >> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> >> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
> >> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
> >> carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >>
> >> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> >> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
> >> about
> >> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >>
> >> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
> >> this.
> >>
> >> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >
> > Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
> > quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
> > systems.
> >
> > I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
> > copper or dylox and increase aeration.
>
> Malachite green is a copper compound.

It is a carbonate of copper, and does not have the same parasitic
killing power.


> Before I starting adding chemicals to
> the
> water, it would be wise to determine the water quality first. But my gut
> reaction says it could be an imbalance in water quality parameters,

While I would certainly check these, but as it is springtime I would
look to parasites in this established 6 year old pond.

jay
Tue May 18, 2004




> specifically
> Ph, ammonia, low dissolved oxygen, some kind of chemical poisoning, or a
> bacterial infection.
>
>

[ray hucek]

Lee,
Thanks for the reply.
I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

I think those look good. what do you think?

I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray
"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> Sorry to hear about your fish: it's always distressing to watch them die
and
> not know why. Disease is always a possibility, but the first thing that
you
> need to check is your water parameters: what are they? At this point, I
> would be most concerned about ammonia and pH. Where are you located? What
is
> the water temp? These things need to be known before anyone can give a
> "guesstimate".
>
> Lee
>
> "ray hucek" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >
> > I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
> years
> > old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
> > appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
> are
> > listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >
> > There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> > connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> > previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which
> I
> > took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
> > off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
> the
> > past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
> toad
> > carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >
> > I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
> > twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
> about
> > 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >
> > I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
> this.
> >
> > I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[jammer]

Hi, I am sorry for your loss. I had a mass tadpole death last year but
it was my fault. This year, so far, so good. It really sounds like
poisoning to me. Good luck in the future....






On Tue, 18 May 2004 15:51:25 GMT, "ray hucek"
> wrote:

>I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
>I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about
6 years
>old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There
aren't any
>appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I
see are
>listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
>There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as
in
>previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
>took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
>off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right.
In the
>past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that
the toad
>carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
>I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I
medicated it
>twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond
is about
>3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
>I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described
match this.
>
>I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ray
>
>

[[email protected]]

your water has gone toxic, most likely from the spawning of toads. DO NOT TREAT WITH
MEDICINES. this will just make it more toxic.
water changes!!!!!! get those toads and toadpoles and eggs out of there.
If you have to drain the pond, move the fish to a kiddie pool and clean all those
toadpoles outta there.
if you dont have hellatious aeration in this pond get an air blower from aquatic
ecosystems and 4 of their foot long sintered glass air stones to put oxygen into this
pond. between the ammonia and the temp of the water the fish are smothering.
Ingrid


I had about 75-80 fish ranging from fry to 6 inches,
but mostly 3-4 ins.

I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

The toad and tadpoles were dead before treating the pond.

"ray hucek" > wrote:

>I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
>I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6 years
>old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
>appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see are
>listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
>There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which I
>took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
>off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In the
>past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the toad
>carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
>I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
>twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is about
>3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
>I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match this.
>
>I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ray
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[joe]

My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
adversely affected."

Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
carrying oxygen.

Also:
This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.

Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
pipe in on the subject.

Joe


On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:

> Joe,
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
> Sorry--
> PH -7.4-7.6
> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
> Nitrite-- .25
> water temp- 80 degrees
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Ray
> "joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>
>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>>
>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
> years
>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
> any
>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
> are
>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>>
>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
> which I
>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
> died
>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
> the
>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
> toad
>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>>
>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
> it
>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
> about
>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>>
>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
> this.
>>>
>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[RichToyBox]

Go to http://www.koitulsa.org/pages/800287/index.htm and see if any of their
members are koi health advisors or if they have any trained health hotline
people that can do a microscopic evaluation. I suspect that it is
parasites, but I like to taylor the treatment to the particular parasite,
not the shotgun approach. Some of the treatments can be harmful/stressful
to the fish, and not affect the parasites, while some other treatment will
take care of the parasite with minimum damage to the fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ray,
> that's too bad :-(
>
> A few questions before the experts arrive, -
>
> How many fish in the pond and appx. how big are they?
> Water test results, exact numbers?
> >>malachite green<< This can be fatal to amphibians. Did they die before
or
> after you treated?
> Hope someone has an answer for you.
>
>
>
> << Subject: dying fish-need help please
> From: "ray hucek"
> Date: Tue, May 18, 2004 10:51 AM
> Message-id: >
>
> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>
> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>
> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which
I
> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>
> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>
> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.
>
> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> kathy :-)
> <A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[George]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the reply. I had about 75-80 fish ranging from fry to 6 inches,
> but mostly 3-4 ins.
>
> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
> Sorry--
> PH -7.4-7.6
> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
> Nitrite-- .25
> water temp- 80 degrees
>
> The toad and tadpoles were dead before treating the pond.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Ray

That temperature seens a little high to me. Is there any reason why it would be
so high this time of year? Do you have a pump that is overheating? I live in
Kentucky, and my water is running at about 70 degrees right now (but then, the
pond is nearly 4 feet deep). I have never seen it reach 80, even in the middle
of the summer.

[ray hucek]

George,
That temp took me by surprise as well. We have been running mid-80's during
the days and lows of 60's. I will check into the pump. There is a
pre-filter surrounding it. Maybe it needs cleaning.
With appreciation,
Ray
>
> That temperature seens a little high to me. Is there any reason why it
would be
> so high this time of year? Do you have a pump that is overheating? I
live in
> Kentucky, and my water is running at about 70 degrees right now (but then,
the
> pond is nearly 4 feet deep). I have never seen it reach 80, even in the
middle
> of the summer.
>
>

[George]

"joe" > wrote in message ...
> My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
> don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.

There is no conversion. 0.25 mg./L is 0.25 ppm. You might be right about the
ammonia level. In addition, the higher the water temperature, the more critical
the ammonia concentration becomes. An ammonia concentration of 0.25 ppm might
be ok at 65 degress F. At 80, it could be toxic, indeed. Fish excrete ammonia
through their gills. That process becomes less efficient with increased ammonia
concentration in the water, thereby increasing the ammonia concentration in the
blood of the animals. Higher water temperatures can also impede this process,
making the same ammonia concentration at a lower temperature more toxic at
higher temperatures. I would temporarily add ammocarb to the filtration, and
add nitrifying bacteria to the pond immediately just to make sure this isn't the
problem. A 20% water change should also help reduce that concentration. And
just to be sure, I'd test the new water before adding it to make sure that it
isn't, for some reason, the source of the ammonia (although this is doubtful -
most likely your biological filtration isn't working properly). Adding the
nitrifying bacteria should get rid of the problem. Finally, As I stated
earlier, it seems to me that the temperature is a little high for this time of
year, so I'd check your pump(s) for overheating. A restricted outlet,
cavitation, or a failing bearing could cause the pump to overheat, which can
raise the water temperature in the pond.

> My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
> should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
> adversely affected."
>
> Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
> carrying oxygen.
>
> Also:
> This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
> chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
> can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
> use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
> the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
> filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
>
> Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
> pipe in on the subject.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
>> Sorry--
>> PH -7.4-7.6
>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
>> Nitrite-- .25
>> water temp- 80 degrees
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> Ray
>> "joe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>>>
>>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
>> years
>>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
>> any
>>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
>> are
>>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>>>
>>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
>> which I
>>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
>> died
>>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
>> the
>>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
>> toad
>>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>>>
>>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
>> it
>>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
>> about
>>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>>>
>>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
>> this.
>>>>
>>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[ray hucek]

Rich,
Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help. I
lost 6 today.
Ray

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:Mxxqc.74465$536.12093483@attbi_s03...
> Go to http://www.koitulsa.org/pages/800287/index.htm and see if any of
their
> members are koi health advisors or if they have any trained health hotline
> people that can do a microscopic evaluation. I suspect that it is
> parasites, but I like to taylor the treatment to the particular parasite,
> not the shotgun approach. Some of the treatments can be harmful/stressful
> to the fish, and not affect the parasites, while some other treatment
will
> take care of the parasite with minimum damage to the fish.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
> ...

[ray hucek]

Joe,
On my kits, the levels of the Ammonia and Nitrite are on the bottom part of
the scale. The PH shows a little high.

I do not use a declorinator in my water. I have storage tubs that I place
on the edge of the pond, fill them, and let them sit for 24-48 hrs. I do
not know what is in my water and will see if I can find out.

I have a pre-filter on my pump, which I clean every few weeks. I have an
external filter that I clean weekly. I have had good success with them so
far.

thanks,
Ray
"joe" > wrote in message
...
> My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
> don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime
in.
> My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
> should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
> adversely affected."
>
> Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
> carrying oxygen.
>
> Also:
> This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
> chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact
I
> can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
> use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will
have
> the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
> filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
>
> Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
> pipe in on the subject.
>
> Joe
>
>
Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[ray hucek]

Ingrid,
Thanks for the advice. I will get on the water change tonight. I didn't
realize how toxic they were. This year has seen the most toad mating in
that pond. It is just upsetting that I didn't realize the damage sooner.

I added in more aeration earlier this evening. I will look to beef it up.

With appreciation,
Ray
> wrote in message
...
> your water has gone toxic, most likely from the spawning of toads. DO NOT
TREAT WITH
> MEDICINES. this will just make it more toxic.
> water changes!!!!!! get those toads and toadpoles and eggs out of there.
> If you have to drain the pond, move the fish to a kiddie pool and clean
all those
> toadpoles outta there.
> if you dont have hellatious aeration in this pond get an air blower from
aquatic
> ecosystems and 4 of their foot long sintered glass air stones to put
oxygen into this
> pond. between the ammonia and the temp of the water the fish are
smothering.
> Ingrid
>
>

[George]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> George,
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
> Sorry--
> PH -7.4-7.6
> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
> Nitrite-- .25
> water temp- 80 degrees
>
> All of the above seem to be descent. PH is a little high, but seem to be
> acceptable. What do you think?
>
> Chemical Poisoning-- it would have to be airborne because I don't do any
> fertilizing or pesticides in my back yard. And there is no risk of runoff
> into the pond. I thought of that when I did the water change. I was
> hopeful that doing the water change would have diluted any poisoning taking
> place. It didn't seem to work as I lost 3 fish today.
>
> I am going to increase aeration to try to deal with oxygen.
>
> Any ideas about bacterial infections and how to treat them? There isn't any
> outward signs on the fish.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Ray
>

If it is a bacterial infection, there should be external signs. Honestly, if I
suspected a bacterial infection, I'd isolate the sick animals in a separate
holding tank, and treat it instead of the pond. Having said that, if all of
your fish are affected, then you are going to have to risk treating the pond,
which can be expensive. There are two types of bacterial infections,
gram-positive, and gram negative. Depending on the symptoms the fish are
exhibiting, you may have one or the other. It is also possible that you could
have both. Try this link and see if you can diagnose the illness.

http://www.bettasrus.com/disease/diagnosing.htm

This flowchart usually works well for me. I haven't lost a fish to disease in
several years using this flowchart as a guide. My catfish got a skin infection
last fall that also affected his gills. It was determined, based on this
flowchart that the fish had septicemia, or similar infection. In my case, none
of the other fish were affected. I isolated him for two weeks in a 50 gallon
tub, and treated the water with marycyn II, adding aeration to the water. When
it appeared that he was behaving normally, and started eating again, I placed
him back in the pond. After a couple of days of adjustment, he was fine. This
guide is actually allegedly taylored to Bettas, but believe me, many fish are
susceptible to many of the same diseases, so the flow chart should work fine for
you so don't worry about that. It is the same flowchart that comes with the
mardel labs medications recommended for the two types of bacterial infections
outlined above. In addition, if bacterial infection is not the problem, it may
help you isolate any other possible cause.

Finally, I posted earlier my recommendation about ammonia and the water
temperature. You should read that post as well. I would eliminate all other
causes before initiating a potentially expensive antibiotic treatment.

[George]

"Go Fig" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, George
> > wrote:
>
>> "Go Fig" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > ray hucek > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>> >>
>> >> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
>> >> years
>> >> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't any
>> >> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
>> >> are
>> >> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>> >>
>> >> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>> >> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>> >> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond, which
>> >> I
>> >> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles died
>> >> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
>> >> the
>> >> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
>> >> toad
>> >> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>> >>
>> >> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated it
>> >> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
>> >> about
>> >> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>> >>
>> >> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
>> >> this.
>> >>
>> >> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>> >
>> > Did you have a short spring season? Perhaps the parasites, with a
>> > quick rise in water temp, got ahead of the fishes natural immune
>> > systems.
>> >
>> > I would use something quite a bit stronger than formalin... perhaps
>> > copper or dylox and increase aeration.
>>
>> Malachite green is a copper compound.
>
> It is a carbonate of copper, and does not have the same parasitic
> killing power.

Coppersafe works well. I've used it for years. But be careful with
invertebrates.

>
>> Before I starting adding chemicals to
>> the
>> water, it would be wise to determine the water quality first. But my gut
>> reaction says it could be an imbalance in water quality parameters,
>
> While I would certainly check these, but as it is springtime I would
> look to parasites in this established 6 year old pond.

He could also read these links. They might give him some answers:

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/disease2.html

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/clinicalsigns.htm

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/parasites.htm

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/basictreatment.htm

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/bacterial.htm

[George]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> Rich,
> Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help. I
> lost 6 today.
> Ray

I feel for you. I can understand your concern and frustration. If you are
losing that many that quick, it might be a good idea to take one of the dead
ones to a vet or a reputable pet shop right away and have them look at it to see
if they can see any signs of infection or parasites. If you are losing that
many that quickly, it sounds like something particiularly virulent, that is, if
it is not an environmental problem. Any red spots or red streaks on them? How
about white spots or fuzzy patches? Are the scales swollen? How do their fins
looks? Are they rubbing against rocks? This is how I knew that my catfish had
a problem last fall. These are all signs of parasites and/or bacterial
infections. See my earlier posts.

Finally, I know this sounds strange, but I had a problem with my salt water tank
several years back that I would never have suspected. My fish were apparently
sick, and were darting about. One even tried to jump out of the tank. The
problem was that the tank was not properly grounded, and the fish were being
shocked. Believe it or not. This is a particular problem with salt water tanks,
and not usually freshwater. Nevertheless, it is just one more thing you should
check for. Check you electrical connections, and make sure there are no
abraided wires, and that the pump(s) and/or any other electrical gadgets is/are
properly grounded. A ground fault interupter is always a good thing to install
on your electrical supply for an outdoor water environment. It will also keep
you and your family safe.

> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
> news:Mxxqc.74465$536.12093483@attbi_s03...
>> Go to http://www.koitulsa.org/pages/800287/index.htm and see if any of
> their
>> members are koi health advisors or if they have any trained health hotline
>> people that can do a microscopic evaluation. I suspect that it is
>> parasites, but I like to taylor the treatment to the particular parasite,
>> not the shotgun approach. Some of the treatments can be harmful/stressful
>> to the fish, and not affect the parasites, while some other treatment
> will
>> take care of the parasite with minimum damage to the fish.
>> --
>> RichToyBox
>> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>> "Ka30P" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>

[George]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> Joe,
> On my kits, the levels of the Ammonia and Nitrite are on the bottom part of
> the scale. The PH shows a little high.
>
> I do not use a declorinator in my water. I have storage tubs that I place
> on the edge of the pond, fill them, and let them sit for 24-48 hrs. I do
> not know what is in my water and will see if I can find out.
>
> I have a pre-filter on my pump, which I clean every few weeks. I have an
> external filter that I clean weekly. I have had good success with them so
> far.
>
> thanks,
> Ray

I would use stress coat in the water simply because while aging water may get
rid of chlorine and help soften the water, if your local water system uses
chloramine as mine does, it does not degrade as rapidly or as easily, and may
still be in the water at unacceptable levels when you put it in the pond. I use
stress coat with Aloh Vera, because it seems to soothe any damaged areas of the
fish and helps them to heal. In addition, it will totally eliminate both
chlorine and chloramine from the water, and help the fish develop their
protective slime on their skin/scales fins, etc. It is a good product, and one
I would always recommend. When my fish are sick, the first thing I do is set up
a medical isolatiopn tank in which to isoloate them, add some salt (use salt
formulated specifically for aquatic use - do not use iodized or rock salt), and
stress coat to the water, and then try to diagnose them further. The salt and
stress coat seems to help as an initial treatment. If you don't know what the
water company is putting in your water, assume the worst - use stress coat.

[Mosfunland]

My friend lost her fish one spring....her ammonia was high, they emptied the
pond, cleaned it out, and started over.....worked well. Live fish and frogs
now. How long since you emptied it, it is amazing how much "stuff" is on the
bottom.

I only had a trace of ammonia, in the still water.....but we emptied it and had
18 inches of pine needles, pine cones, and "stuff" on the bottom built up over
the years.

Maureen

[GD]

"George" > wrote:

>
>"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
>> George,
>> Thanks for your thoughts.
>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
>> Sorry--
>> PH -7.4-7.6
>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
>> Nitrite-- .25
>> water temp- 80 degrees
>>
>> All of the above seem to be descent. PH is a little high, but seem to be
>> acceptable. What do you think?
>>
>> Chemical Poisoning-- it would have to be airborne because I don't do any
>> fertilizing or pesticides in my back yard. And there is no risk of runoff
>> into the pond. I thought of that when I did the water change. I was
>> hopeful that doing the water change would have diluted any poisoning taking
>> place. It didn't seem to work as I lost 3 fish today.
>>
>> I am going to increase aeration to try to deal with oxygen.
>>
>> Any ideas about bacterial infections and how to treat them? There isn't any
>> outward signs on the fish.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> Ray


What time of day are you finding the dead fish? Are the fish (and
remaining tadpoles behaving differently in the early morning as
opposed to, say, afternoon?

[[email protected]]

people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in bioload
and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting the fish
spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this added
wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet. at minimum have a
gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do water
changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely need oxygen
to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that algae is a
good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off until
spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running. Ingrid


joe > wrote:

>My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
>don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
>My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
>should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
>adversely affected."
>
>Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
>carrying oxygen.
>
>Also:
>This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
>chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
>can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
>use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
>the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
>filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
>
>Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
>pipe in on the subject.
>
>Joe
>
>
>On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
>> Sorry--
>> PH -7.4-7.6
>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
>> Nitrite-- .25
>> water temp- 80 degrees
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> Ray
>> "joe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>>>
>>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
>> years
>>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
>> any
>>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
>> are
>>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>>>
>>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
>> which I
>>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
>> died
>>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
>> the
>>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
>> toad
>>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>>>
>>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
>> it
>>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
>> about
>>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>>>
>>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
>> this.
>>>>
>>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>
>>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[joe]

Ray,

If you have chloramine, that won't be long enough.

Joe

On 5/18/04 6:48 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:

> I do not use a declorinator in my water. I have storage tubs that I place
> on the edge of the pond, fill them, and let them sit for 24-48 hrs. I do
> not know what is in my water and will see if I can find out.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Go Fig]

In article >,
> wrote:

> people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in
> bioload
> and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting the
> fish
> spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this
> added
> wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet.

After a few weeks at 60+ degrees water temps, they will be online and
working.

We don't know the posters circumstances or how the pond was cared for
in the fall.

While the ammonia is an additional stress to the fish. I still
maintain that there is some disease process going on. The indication
for this is that the poster is losing just a few fish a day... not a
complete wipe-out.


jay
Wed May 19, 2004



> at minimum
> have a
> gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do
> water
> changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely need
> oxygen
> to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that algae
> is a
> good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off
> until
> spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
> and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running.
> Ingrid
>
>
> joe > wrote:
>
> >My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
> >don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
> >My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
> >should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
> >adversely affected."
> >
> >Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
> >carrying oxygen.
> >
> >Also:
> >This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
> >chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
> >can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
> >use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
> >the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
> >filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
> >
> >Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
> >pipe in on the subject.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
> >
> >> Joe,
> >> Thanks for the reply.
> >>
> >> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
> >> Sorry--
> >> PH -7.4-7.6
> >> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
> >> Nitrite-- .25
> >> water temp- 80 degrees
> >>
> >> Any help would be appreciated.
> >> Ray
> >> "joe" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>>
> >>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
> >> years
> >>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
> >> any
> >>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
> >> are
> >>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >>>>
> >>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> >>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> >>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
> >> which I
> >>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
> >> died
> >>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
> >> the
> >>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
> >> toad
> >>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
> >> it
> >>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
> >> about
> >>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
> >> this.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ray
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[joe]

Yes, that may well be correct, or it may be that some fish are less
susceptible than others. Lowering ammonia can do no harm.

Joe

On 5/19/04 9:58 AM, "Go Fig" > wrote:

> In article >,
> > wrote:
>
>> people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in
>> bioload
>> and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting the
>> fish
>> spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this
>> added
>> wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet.
>
> After a few weeks at 60+ degrees water temps, they will be online and
> working.
>
> We don't know the posters circumstances or how the pond was cared for
> in the fall.
>
> While the ammonia is an additional stress to the fish. I still
> maintain that there is some disease process going on. The indication
> for this is that the poster is losing just a few fish a day... not a
> complete wipe-out.
>
>
> jay
> Wed May 19, 2004
>
>
>
>> at minimum
>> have a
>> gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do
>> water
>> changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely need
>> oxygen
>> to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that algae
>> is a
>> good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off
>> until
>> spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
>> and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running.
>> Ingrid
>>
>>
>> joe > wrote:
>>
>>> My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
>>> don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
>>> My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
>>> should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
>>> adversely affected."
>>>
>>> Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
>>> carrying oxygen.
>>>
>>> Also:
>>> This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
>>> chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
>>> can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
>>> use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
>>> the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
>>> filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
>>>
>>> Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
>>> pipe in on the subject.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joe,
>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>
>>>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
>>>> Sorry--
>>>> PH -7.4-7.6
>>>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
>>>> Nitrite-- .25
>>>> water temp- 80 degrees
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>>> Ray
>>>> "joe" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
>>>> years
>>>>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
>>>> any
>>>>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
>>>> are
>>>>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>>>>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>>>>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
>>>> which I
>>>>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
>>>> died
>>>>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
>>>> the
>>>>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
>>>> toad
>>>>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
>>>> it
>>>>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
>>>> about
>>>>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>>>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Go Fig]

In article >, joe >
wrote:

> Yes, that may well be correct, or it may be that some fish are less
> susceptible than others. Lowering ammonia can do no harm.

It can only help. I'd catch a few and put them in a trash can with
copper and new fresh water and lots of air. Nothing like a control
group.



jay
Wed May 19, 2004


>
> Joe
>
> On 5/19/04 9:58 AM, "Go Fig" > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in
> >> bioload
> >> and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting
> >> the
> >> fish
> >> spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this
> >> added
> >> wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet.
> >
> > After a few weeks at 60+ degrees water temps, they will be online and
> > working.
> >
> > We don't know the posters circumstances or how the pond was cared for
> > in the fall.
> >
> > While the ammonia is an additional stress to the fish. I still
> > maintain that there is some disease process going on. The indication
> > for this is that the poster is losing just a few fish a day... not a
> > complete wipe-out.
> >
> >
> > jay
> > Wed May 19, 2004
> >
> >
> >
> >> at minimum
> >> have a
> >> gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do
> >> water
> >> changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely
> >> need
> >> oxygen
> >> to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that
> >> algae
> >> is a
> >> good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off
> >> until
> >> spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
> >> and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running.
> >> Ingrid
> >>
> >>
> >> joe > wrote:
> >>
> >>> My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
> >>> don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime
> >>> in.
> >>> My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
> >>> should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
> >>> adversely affected."
> >>>
> >>> Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
> >>> carrying oxygen.
> >>>
> >>> Also:
> >>> This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
> >>> chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in
> >>> fact I
> >>> can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
> >>> use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will
> >>> have
> >>> the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
> >>> filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
> >>> pipe in on the subject.
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Joe,
> >>>> Thanks for the reply.
> >>>>
> >>>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original
> >>>> posting.
> >>>> Sorry--
> >>>> PH -7.4-7.6
> >>>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
> >>>> Nitrite-- .25
> >>>> water temp- 80 degrees
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help would be appreciated.
> >>>> Ray
> >>>> "joe" > wrote in message
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joe
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
> >>>> years
> >>>>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
> >>>> any
> >>>>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
> >>>> are
> >>>>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
> >>>>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
> >>>>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
> >>>> which I
> >>>>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
> >>>> died
> >>>>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
> >>>> toad
> >>>>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
> >>>> it
> >>>>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
> >>>> about
> >>>>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
> >>>> this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ray
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >>>>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> >> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> >> www.drsolo.com
> >> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> >> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> >> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Benign Vanilla]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> Rich,
> Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help. I
> lost 6 today.

What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?

BV.

[Benign Vanilla]

"ray hucek" > wrote in message
...
> Ingrid,
> Thanks for the advice. I will get on the water change tonight. I didn't
> realize how toxic they were. This year has seen the most toad mating in
> that pond. It is just upsetting that I didn't realize the damage sooner.
>
> I added in more aeration earlier this evening. I will look to beef it up.
<snip>

Just be aware if you do not treat the new water for chloramine/chlorine, you
may just make the problem worse!

I don't buy that the toad load is toxifying your pond. Your test numbers
don't seem to indicate a spike of any sort. It doesn't hurt to do what
changes, as long as you dechlor, and if you are having spikes the dechlor
will help.


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

[Mouse]

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ray hucek" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Rich,
> > Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help.
I
> > lost 6 today.
>
> What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
> high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?
>
> BV.
>
>
I would personally go along with this one, I turn my fountain up at this
time of year as it is a good
means of aeration. This temperature is even above the norm for tropical
fish.
Mouse (Yorkshire UK )

[George]

"Mouse" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "ray hucek" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Rich,
>> > Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help.
> I
>> > lost 6 today.
>>
>> What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
>> high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?
>>
>> BV.
>>
>>
> I would personally go along with this one, I turn my fountain up at this
> time of year as it is a good
> means of aeration. This temperature is even above the norm for tropical
> fish.
> Mouse (Yorkshire UK )
>

My thoughts exactly, about the temperature, that is.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

And let's not forget the importance of checking water quality FIRST, and if
there is ammonia showing YOU MUST treat that first before doing a water
change.

Doing a water change with a possible higher pH than the pond makes the
ammonia even more toxic. So as Ingrid put it, everyone should have Ammonia
locker upper on hand.

What I'd like to know is, what is/was the KH of the OP's pond? ~ jan

>On Wed, 19 May 2004 13:20:59 GMT, wrote:

>people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in bioload
>and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting the fish
>spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this added
>wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet. at minimum have a
>gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do water
>changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely need oxygen
>to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that algae is a
>good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off until
>spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
>and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running. Ingrid
>
>
>joe > wrote:
>
>>My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
>>don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
>>My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
>>should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
>>adversely affected."
>>
>>Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
>>carrying oxygen.
>>
>>Also:
>>This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
>>chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
>>can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
>>use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
>>the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
>>filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.
>>
>>Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
>>pipe in on the subject.
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>
>>On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>
>>> Joe,
>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>
>>> I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
>>> Sorry--
>>> PH -7.4-7.6
>>> Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
>>> Nitrite-- .25
>>> water temp- 80 degrees
>>>
>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>> Ray
>>> "joe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
>>> years
>>>>> old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
>>> any
>>>>> appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
>>> are
>>>>> listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.
>>>>>
>>>>> There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
>>>>> connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
>>>>> previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
>>> which I
>>>>> took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
>>> died
>>>>> off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
>>> the
>>>>> past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
>>> toad
>>>>> carried a virus that infected the fish?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
>>> it
>>>>> twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
>>> about
>>>>> 3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
>>> this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Benign Vanilla]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> And let's not forget the importance of checking water quality FIRST, and
if
> there is ammonia showing YOU MUST treat that first before doing a water
> change.
>
> Doing a water change with a possible higher pH than the pond makes the
> ammonia even more toxic. So as Ingrid put it, everyone should have Ammonia
> locker upper on hand.
>
> What I'd like to know is, what is/was the KH of the OP's pond? ~ jan
<snip>

I concur...I have a gallon of it, stored right next to the pond.

BV.