PH Level Issue

[simplesoul]

Hello folks!
I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and therefore some
advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6 medium sized
koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very high (over
9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to bring the PH
level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the PH level
down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes right back
up to nearly 9.

Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
Steve

[Go Fig]

In article >, simplesoul
> wrote:

> Hello folks!
> I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and therefore some
> advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6 medium sized
> koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very high (over
> 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to bring the PH
> level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the PH level
> down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes right back
> up to nearly 9.
>
> Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?

Is this a concrete pond ?

jay
Thu May 20, 2004



> Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
> Steve
>
>

[T]

"Go Fig" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, simplesoul
> > wrote:
>
> > Hello folks!
> > I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and therefore
some
> > advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6 medium
sized
> > koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very high
(over
> > 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to bring the
PH
> > level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the PH
level
> > down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes right
back
> > up to nearly 9.
> >
> > Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
>
> Is this a concrete pond ?
>
> jay
> Thu May 20, 2004
>
>
>
> > Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
> > Steve
> >
> >

Do you just top off the water in the pond? Or do you regularly change it by
removing water and replacing it??

Tim

[simplesoul]

I do want to thank both Tim and Jay for responding so quickly. As you know,
when your obsessive about a pond you like to resolve issues like this as
soon as you can.

I have a pond which has cement only towards the top of it... about the top 8
inches and it's about 2 1/2 feet deep. I would think that after 2 years the
cement would not be problematic. Especially as little cement as I have
used... ???

I did empty the pond 1/2 way recently and then refilled it. However, I did
not check the PH level until after doing so and so did not ad the muriatic
acid until after adding the fresh water.
Cheers!





"T" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, simplesoul
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello folks!
> > > I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and therefore
> some
> > > advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6 medium
> sized
> > > koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very high
> (over
> > > 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to bring
the
> PH
> > > level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the PH
> level
> > > down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes right
> back
> > > up to nearly 9.
> > >
> > > Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
> >
> > Is this a concrete pond ?
> >
> > jay
> > Thu May 20, 2004
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
>
> Do you just top off the water in the pond? Or do you regularly change it
by
> removing water and replacing it??
>
> Tim
>
>

[Go Fig]

In article >, simplesoul
> wrote:

> I do want to thank both Tim and Jay for responding so quickly. As you know,
> when your obsessive about a pond you like to resolve issues like this as
> soon as you can.
>
> I have a pond which has cement only towards the top of it... about the top 8
> inches and it's about 2 1/2 feet deep. I would think that after 2 years the
> cement would not be problematic. Especially as little cement as I have
> used... ???

What is the alkalinity/pH of your fill water?

That said, its the concrete. I really wouldn't fret about it too much.
You will be prone to suspended algae and perhaps... perhaps... less
successful breeding....

Best treatment, a TWO part epoxy pool paint.... very, very costly and
time consuming.

jay
Thu May 20, 2004



>
> I did empty the pond 1/2 way recently and then refilled it. However, I did
> not check the PH level until after doing so and so did not ad the muriatic
> acid until after adding the fresh water.
> Cheers!
>
>
>
>
>
> "T" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >, simplesoul
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello folks!
> > > > I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and therefore
> > some
> > > > advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6 medium
> > sized
> > > > koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very high
> > (over
> > > > 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to bring
> the
> > PH
> > > > level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the PH
> > level
> > > > down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes right
> > back
> > > > up to nearly 9.
> > > >
> > > > Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
> > >
> > > Is this a concrete pond ?
> > >
> > > jay
> > > Thu May 20, 2004
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > Do you just top off the water in the pond? Or do you regularly change it
> by
> > removing water and replacing it??
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
>

[simplesoul]

Hello Jay,
You asked
> What is the alkalinity/pH of your fill water?
It is 7.5

I guess it's useless to treat the pond with muriatic acid, hunh? I suppose
if I kept the water level below where my concrete starts that might help?
Then again my two-tiered water fall is made of concrete too.... rats
*%@#$!!!

You've been very helpful and I do thank you!!!



__________________________________________________ __________________________
_______
> That said, its the concrete. I really wouldn't fret about it too much.
> You will be prone to suspended algae and perhaps... perhaps... less
> successful breeding....
>
> Best treatment, a TWO part epoxy pool paint.... very, very costly and
> time consuming.
>
> jay
> Thu May 20, 2004
>
>
>
> >
> > I did empty the pond 1/2 way recently and then refilled it. However, I
did
> > not check the PH level until after doing so and so did not ad the
muriatic
> > acid until after adding the fresh water.
> > Cheers!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "T" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > >
> > > "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article >, simplesoul
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello folks!
> > > > > I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and
therefore
> > > some
> > > > > advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6
medium
> > > sized
> > > > > koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very
high
> > > (over
> > > > > 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to
bring
> > the
> > > PH
> > > > > level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the
PH
> > > level
> > > > > down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes
right
> > > back
> > > > > up to nearly 9.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
> > > >
> > > > Is this a concrete pond ?
> > > >
> > > > jay
> > > > Thu May 20, 2004
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Do you just top off the water in the pond? Or do you regularly change
it
> > by
> > > removing water and replacing it??
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

[Hal]

On Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:34 -0700, "simplesoul"
> wrote:

>Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
>Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.

pH isn't a thing like chlorine or salt, but a relationship with
hydrogen ions that tell us whether the water is more acid than
alkaline. The pH is stabilized by KH ,called alkalinity hardness
carbonate hardness and probably other things but you need to maintain
about 150ppm of these minerals to be able to get pH readings that make
sense. The acid directly consumes the KH and should not be allowed
to reduce the KH below 150 ppm.

Morning pH readings before the sun rises will be lower than evening
readings because the plants consume oxygen at night and release carbon
dioxide which forms carbonic acid in the water and causes a lower pH
reading. During the day plants consume carbon dioxide and use
sunlight to produce plant food and the pH readings go a bit higher.
Fish live well in pH readings up to 9. If it isn't over 9 and the
fish are doing well, I wouldn't bother it.

I don't have a concrete pond, but others do and they have live fish
and I can't tell you how high their pH goes, but I suspect it is
higher than 7 if they have a good KH reading.

Regards,

Hal

[Mike Patterson]

I'm thinking you might be able to drain water down below concrete
level, turn waterfall off, let it dry thoroughly, then coat the
concrete with a sealer of some sort (don't let it drip into the
pond!). Multiple coats. Let dry. Let dry some more.

Refill.

HTH
Mike


On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:59:35 -0700, "simplesoul"
> wrote:

>Hello Jay,
>You asked
>> What is the alkalinity/pH of your fill water?
>It is 7.5
>
>I guess it's useless to treat the pond with muriatic acid, hunh? I suppose
>if I kept the water level below where my concrete starts that might help?
>Then again my two-tiered water fall is made of concrete too.... rats
>*%@#$!!!
>
>You've been very helpful and I do thank you!!!
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ __________________________
>_______
>> That said, its the concrete. I really wouldn't fret about it too much.
>> You will be prone to suspended algae and perhaps... perhaps... less
>> successful breeding....
>>
>> Best treatment, a TWO part epoxy pool paint.... very, very costly and
>> time consuming.
>>
>> jay
>> Thu May 20, 2004
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I did empty the pond 1/2 way recently and then refilled it. However, I
>did
>> > not check the PH level until after doing so and so did not ad the
>muriatic
>> > acid until after adding the fresh water.
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "T" > wrote in message
>> > ink.net...
>> > >
>> > > "Go Fig" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > > In article >, simplesoul
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello folks!
>> > > > > I just wanted to see if anyone had a situation like mine and
>therefore
>> > > some
>> > > > > advice to give. I have a 2 year old, 1500 gallon pond with 6
>medium
>> > > sized
>> > > > > koi. I just began testing the PH level recently and found it very
>high
>> > > (over
>> > > > > 9). I was told to carefully and gradually add Muriatic Acid to
>bring
>> > the
>> > > PH
>> > > > > level down. I did and for a very short period of time, brought the
>PH
>> > > level
>> > > > > down to about 7. However, it doesn't stay 7 very long and spikes
>right
>> > > back
>> > > > > up to nearly 9.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Any guesses on why the PH level doesn't level off?
>> > > >
>> > > > Is this a concrete pond ?
>> > > >
>> > > > jay
>> > > > Thu May 20, 2004
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
>> > > > > Steve
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > > Do you just top off the water in the pond? Or do you regularly change
>it
>> > by
>> > > removing water and replacing it??
>> > >
>> > > Tim
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."

[[email protected]]

seal the concrete. that will slow or stop leaching. Ingrid

"simplesoul" > wrote:

>Hello Jay,
>You asked
>> What is the alkalinity/pH of your fill water?
>It is 7.5
>
>I guess it's useless to treat the pond with muriatic acid, hunh? I suppose
>if I kept the water level below where my concrete starts that might help?
>Then again my two-tiered water fall is made of concrete too.... rats
>*%@#$!!!
>
>You've been very helpful and I do thank you!!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Or, remove the koi temporary and add 1 gallon acid to each 1,000 gallons
and let it set till the pH stays down, this may or may not take more acid.
Once the pH stays down, rinse, fill and re-start the ponding process.

To do lower pH with acid additions with fish, you first need to bring up
the KH with baking soda so you have buffering after the addition of acid.
Then you need to dilute the acid and add it slowly to the pond. Sudden
changes in pH are not healthy for your fish. ~ jan

>On Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:15 GMT, wrote:

>seal the concrete. that will slow or stop leaching. Ingrid
>
>"simplesoul" > wrote:
>
>>Hello Jay,
>>You asked
>>> What is the alkalinity/pH of your fill water?
>>It is 7.5
>>
>>I guess it's useless to treat the pond with muriatic acid, hunh? I suppose
>>if I kept the water level below where my concrete starts that might help?
>>Then again my two-tiered water fall is made of concrete too.... rats
>>*%@#$!!!
>>
>>You've been very helpful and I do thank you!!!
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[simplesoul]

I have to say that I've received a lot of outstanding advice here. I want
thank all of you for responding.



For anyone who has just stumbled on to this thread I'd like to summarize
what I've learned as a result of this discussion...



1] Concrete ponds have higher PH levels than "liner ponds".

2] A higher PH level is OK (up to 9) and if your PH level is 9 or lower you
probably shouldn't' worry about it.

3] If your PH level is above 9 and you must treat your pond, it is
absolutely imperative you do it gradually. For example, if you decide to add
muriatic acid to balance the PH level a bit... do it slowly or you will
destroy your eco-system and possibly harm/kill your fish.



BTW, my pond has been holding at PH level of 8 for the past few days. I'm
crossing my fingers that it stays there (or atleast below 9).



Again. I thank all of you kind souls who got involved in this discussion.