Do you know the percent of water change?

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Lee B.]

jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
> after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
> Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
> divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
doing
> between 20-25%.
>
> So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
> ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
> ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
> use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) <VBEG> ~ jan

>jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!
>
>Lee
>
>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
>> I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
>> after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
>> Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
>> divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
>doing
>> between 20-25%.
>>
>> So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
>> ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
>> ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
>> use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Lee B.]

Would the water's ambient salt level make any difference? IOW, if the
ambient level is .02, it would need to be subtracted from the .11, leaving
..09. Therefore, 13-9 = 4/13 = ~31. A 31% water change would have been
closer to what you "thought" it was, instead of 15%. Or am I full of "it"
again? Math was never my forte. I don't know if it would make a difference
or not.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
> heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) <VBEG> ~ jan
>
> >jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!
> >
> >Lee
> >
> >"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >> I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
> >> after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
> >> Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 =
2, 2
> >> divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
> >doing
> >> between 20-25%.
> >>
> >> So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat
bottom
> >> ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches)
i.e., 4
> >> ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way
to
> >> use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
> >> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
> >
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

[HTH]

Jan,
If you do not mind I would like to add this concept to the HTH page on
water changes. Maybe start a pond specific section.
Howard

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

> Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
> heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) <VBEG> ~ jan
>
>
>>jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!
>>
>>Lee
>>
>>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
>>
>>>I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
>>>after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
>>>Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
>>>divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
>>
>>doing
>>
>>>between 20-25%.
>>>
>>>So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
>>>ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
>>>ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
>>>use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
>>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>>
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Don't mind at all. :o) ~ jan

>On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:29:44 -0600, HTH > wrote:

>Jan,
>If you do not mind I would like to add this concept to the HTH page on
>water changes. Maybe start a pond specific section.
>Howard
>
>~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
>
>> Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
>> heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) <VBEG> ~ jan
>>
>>
>>>jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!
>>>
>>>Lee
>>>
>>>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
>>>
>>>>I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
>>>>after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
>>>>Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
>>>>divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
>>>
>>>doing
>>>
>>>>between 20-25%.
>>>>
>>>>So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
>>>>ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
>>>>ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
>>>>use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
>>>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>>>
>>
>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I suppose if the water you're adding in has some salt in it, you may very
well have to take that into account. Good catch, Lee. No detectable ambient
level here, thank goodness, because.....

The math though is throwing me, but I think you're right, take the .02 away
from the after-the-change number, if you don't it wouldn't look like you
took any water at all, would it? Now I'm starting to hear "Zooms" around my
head. ;o) ~ jan

>On 2 Jun 2004 07:45:09 -0500, "Lee B." > wrote:

>Would the water's ambient salt level make any difference? IOW, if the
>ambient level is .02, it would need to be subtracted from the .11, leaving
>.09. Therefore, 13-9 = 4/13 = ~31. A 31% water change would have been
>closer to what you "thought" it was, instead of 15%. Or am I full of "it"
>again? Math was never my forte. I don't know if it would make a difference
>or not.
>
>Lee
>
>"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
>> Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
>> heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) <VBEG> ~ jan
>>
>> >jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!
>> >
>> >Lee
>> >
>> >"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
>> s.com...
>> >> I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
>> >> after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
>> >> Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 =
>2, 2
>> >> divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
>> >doing
>> >> between 20-25%.
>> >>
>> >> So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat
>bottom
>> >> ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches)
>i.e., 4
>> >> ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way
>to
>> >> use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
>> >> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>> >
>>
>> (Do you know where your water quality is?)
>

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message ...
> Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water
PH
> etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
> on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that
in
> itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer
I
> might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
> year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot
of
> work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
> fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
> those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build it
and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter. I
think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much more
forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.

BV.

I agree....{:O) MIKE
"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message ...
> > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
> PH
> > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> dependent
> > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
...that
> in
> > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
> I
> > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My
10
> > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
> of
> > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
> > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
> are
> > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
>
> I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build
it
> and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter.
I
> think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much
more
> forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.
>
> BV.
>
>

[Lee B.]

One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

> wrote in message ...
> Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water
PH
> etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
> on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that
in
> itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer
I
> might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
> year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot
of
> work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
> fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
> those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
>
>

Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can adapt
to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time it
rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping is
> that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
alone
> the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
for
> you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part of
> the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
thank
> your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
>
> Lee
>
> > wrote in message ...
> > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
> PH
> > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> dependent
> > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
...that
> in
> > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
> I
> > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My
10
> > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
> of
> > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
> > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
> are
> > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> >
> >
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Koi can adapt to almost any water parameters, but they do not adapt quickly.
Temperature changes over very short times can be stressful. pH changes over
short intervals are stressful. When stress enters the picture, disease
enters the picture, and fish start dying if they are not properly medicated,
quarantined in pristine water, and allowed to ease the stress. A large farm
pond or lake does not change rapidly and the fish fair well with little or
no human intervention. The smaller the yard pond the more rapidly the
temperature, pH, and overall water quality change. That is the best reason
for building the largest pond possible. Even the largest koi pond that I
have visited, about 17000 gallons needs some monitoring. Yard ponds also
suffer from over population. The first year, a bunch of little fish, and it
looks empty, so get a bunch more, and it is a big pond with a bunch of
little fish and all is well. The next year, the little fish, if koi, are a
foot to a foot and half long, and the pond still looks like it could stand a
few more fish, and I just saw the cutest fish that I just had to have. By
the fourth or fifth year, the fish can hardly turn around without bumping
into each other, because they are now over 2 feet long and 5 or 6 inches in
diameter. They are all my friends and I can't part with any of them.
Oxygen becomes a problem, filtration becomes a problem, pollution becomes a
problem.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
> wrote in message ...
> Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
adapt
> to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
> quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
> level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
it
> rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
> stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
> I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping
is
> > that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
> alone
> > the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
> for
> > you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part
of
> > the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
> thank
> > your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > > wrote in message
...
> > > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
> water
> > PH
> > > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> > dependent
> > > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> ..that
> > in
> > > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> Summer
> > I
> > > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> > > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
My
> 10
> > > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
> allot
> > of
> > > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
> have
> > > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
goldfish
> > are
> > > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Lee B.]

RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.

I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too few
gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me that
once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake or
river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's up
to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing out
the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be strived
for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end of a
chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life". My
fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my responsibility,
and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them healthy,
too.

Lee

> wrote in message ...
> Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
adapt
> to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
> quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
> level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
it
> rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
> stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
> I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping
is
> > that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
> alone
> > the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
> for
> > you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part
of
> > the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
> thank
> > your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > > wrote in message
...
> > > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
> water
> > PH
> > > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> > dependent
> > > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> ..that
> > in
> > > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> Summer
> > I
> > > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> > > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
My
> 10
> > > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
> allot
> > of
> > > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
> have
> > > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
goldfish
> > are
> > > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced "fishy"
smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a wiff
of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone ever
notice that??? Mike
"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.
>
> I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
few
> gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
that
> once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
> good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
or
> river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
> water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
> captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
up
> to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing out
> the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
strived
> for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end of
a
> chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
My
> fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
responsibility,
> and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
> ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them healthy,
> too.
>
> Lee
>
> > wrote in message ...
> > Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
> adapt
> > to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
water
> > quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
> > level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
> it
> > rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
and
> > stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
> > I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
keeping
> is
> > > that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
> > alone
> > > the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
well
> > for
> > > you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
part
> of
> > > the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
> > thank
> > > your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > > wrote in message
> ...
> > > > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
> > water
> > > PH
> > > > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> > > dependent
> > > > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> > ..that
> > > in
> > > > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> > Summer
> > > I
> > > > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
drive
> > > > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
> My
> > 10
> > > > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
> > allot
> > > of
> > > > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
> > have
> > > > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
> goldfish
> > > are
> > > > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Exactly right BV.

There is NOTHING natural about a pond of a few thousand gallons or less run
by pumps and filters, especially with more than 1 fish/1000 gallons.... I'm
sure mother nature gives her fish more than 1000 gallons each!

I think you're very lucky Mike, and I hope it doesn't come back to bite you
in the butt like it did me last year. I was a causal water tester & water
changer. Then I hit critcal mass and even though I corrected the problems
and never had water quality totally out of whack, I've sure suffered my
losses.

That's the one thing that really surprised me, even once you correct the
Water Quality and/or over crowding problem, you can still have health
problems and/or fish losses. ~ jan

>I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build it
>and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter. I
>think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much more
>forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.
>
>BV.
>
> wrote in message ...
>> Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water
>PH
>> etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
>dependent
>> on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that
>in
>> itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer
>I
>> might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
>> myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
>> year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot
>of
>> work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
>> fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
>are
>> those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
>

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[RichToyBox]

Yes. The smell of sex is potent. Smaller fish spawning one at a time don't
really make much of a scent, but when all of the fish decide to spawn at the
same time, you don't even have to go near the pond to know what they have
been doing.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
> wrote in message ...
> I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced "fishy"
> smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a
wiff
> of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone
ever
> notice that??? Mike
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.
> >
> > I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
> few
> > gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
> that
> > once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
> > good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
> or
> > river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
> > water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
> > captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
> up
> > to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing
out
> > the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
> strived
> > for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end
of
> a
> > chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
> My
> > fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
> responsibility,
> > and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
> > ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them
healthy,
> > too.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > > wrote in message .
...
> > > Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
> > adapt
> > > to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
> water
> > > quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a
pristine
> > > level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every
time
> > it
> > > rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
> and
> > > stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water
quality???
> > > I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> > > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
> keeping
> > is
> > > > that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S.,
let
> > > alone
> > > > the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
> well
> > > for
> > > > you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
> part
> > of
> > > > the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax
and
> > > thank
> > > > your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > > Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never
checked
> > > water
> > > > PH
> > > > > etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> > > > dependent
> > > > > on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> > > ..that
> > > > in
> > > > > itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> > > Summer
> > > > I
> > > > > might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
> drive
> > > > > myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect
level.
> > My
> > > 10
> > > > > year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and
make
> > > allot
> > > > of
> > > > > work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better
to
> > > have
> > > > > fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
> > goldfish
> > > > are
> > > > > those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience.
MIKE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Once the immune system is compromised by the stress of overcrowding, or poor
water quality, it takes a long time for the immune system to get back up to
strength, and the fish will continue to break with ulcers or worse. It is
very tiring to get over a breakout.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> Exactly right BV.
>
> There is NOTHING natural about a pond of a few thousand gallons or less
run
> by pumps and filters, especially with more than 1 fish/1000 gallons....
I'm
> sure mother nature gives her fish more than 1000 gallons each!
>
> I think you're very lucky Mike, and I hope it doesn't come back to bite
you
> in the butt like it did me last year. I was a causal water tester & water
> changer. Then I hit critcal mass and even though I corrected the problems
> and never had water quality totally out of whack, I've sure suffered my
> losses.
>
> That's the one thing that really surprised me, even once you correct the
> Water Quality and/or over crowding problem, you can still have health
> problems and/or fish losses. ~ jan
>
> >I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build
it
> >and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter.
I
> >think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much
more
> >forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.
> >
> >BV.
> >
> > wrote in message
...
> >> Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
> >PH
> >> etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> >dependent
> >> on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
...that
> >in
> >> itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
> >I
> >> might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
> >> myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My
10
> >> year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
> >of
> >> work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
> >> fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
> >are
> >> those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> >
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Mark Bannister]

That's how we find bream beds in Alabama. <g>
Mark B.

wrote:
> I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced "fishy"
> smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a wiff
> of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone ever
> notice that??? Mike
> "Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.
>>
>>I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
>
> few
>
>>gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
>
> that
>
>>once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
>>good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
>
> or
>
>>river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
>>water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
>>captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
>
> up
>
>>to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing out
>>the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
>
> strived
>
>>for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end of
>
> a
>
>>chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
>
> My
>
>>fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
>
> responsibility,
>
>>and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
>>ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them healthy,
>>too.
>>
>>Lee
>>
> wrote in message ...
>>
>>>Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
>>
>>adapt
>>
>>>to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
>
> water
>
>>>quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
>>>level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
>>
>>it
>>
>>>rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
>
> and
>
>>>stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
>>>I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
>>>"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
>
> keeping
>
>>is
>>
>>>>that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
>>>
>>>alone
>>>
>>>>the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
>
> well
>
>>>for
>>>
>>>>you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
>
> part
>
>>of
>>
>>>>the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
>>>
>>>thank
>>>
>>>>your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
>>>>
>>>>Lee
>>>>
> wrote in message
>>
...
>>
>>>>>Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
>>>
>>>water
>>>
>>>>PH
>>>>
>>>>>etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
>>>>
>>>>dependent
>>>>
>>>>>on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
>>>
>>>..that
>>>
>>>>in
>>>>
>>>>>itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
>>>
>>>Summer
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
>
> drive
>
>>>>>myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
>>
>>My
>>
>>>10
>>>
>>>>>year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
>>>
>>>allot
>>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>>work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
>>>
>>>have
>>>
>>>>>fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
>>
>>goldfish
>>
>>>>are
>>>>
>>>>>those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Yes...We do that around here also. {:O) Mike
"Mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> That's how we find bream beds in Alabama. <g>
> Mark B.
>
> wrote:
> > I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced
"fishy"
> > smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a
wiff
> > of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone
ever
> > notice that??? Mike
> > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.
> >>
> >>I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
> >
> > few
> >
> >>gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
> >
> > that
> >
> >>once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
> >>good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
> >
> > or
> >
> >>river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
> >>water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
> >>captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
> >
> > up
> >
> >>to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing
out
> >>the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
> >
> > strived
> >
> >>for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end
of
> >
> > a
> >
> >>chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
> >
> > My
> >
> >>fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
> >
> > responsibility,
> >
> >>and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
> >>ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them
healthy,
> >>too.
> >>
> >>Lee
> >>
> > wrote in message
...
> >>
> >>>Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
> >>
> >>adapt
> >>
> >>>to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
> >
> > water
> >
> >>>quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
> >>>level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every
time
> >>
> >>it
> >>
> >>>rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water
quality???
> >>>I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> >>>"Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
> >
> > keeping
> >
> >>is
> >>
> >>>>that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
> >>>
> >>>alone
> >>>
> >>>>the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
> >
> > well
> >
> >>>for
> >>>
> >>>>you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
> >
> > part
> >
> >>of
> >>
> >>>>the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
> >>>
> >>>thank
> >>>
> >>>>your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> >>>>
> >>>>Lee
> >>>>
> > wrote in message
> >>
> ...
> >>
> >>>>>Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
> >>>
> >>>water
> >>>
> >>>>PH
> >>>>
> >>>>>etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> >>>>
> >>>>dependent
> >>>>
> >>>>>on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> >>>
> >>>..that
> >>>
> >>>>in
> >>>>
> >>>>>itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> >>>
> >>>Summer
> >>>
> >>>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>>might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
> >
> > drive
> >
> >>>>>myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
> >>
> >>My
> >>
> >>>10
> >>>
> >>>>>year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
> >>>
> >>>allot
> >>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>>work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
> >>>
> >>>have
> >>>
> >>>>>fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
> >>
> >>goldfish
> >>
> >>>>are
> >>>>
> >>>>>those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>

I have a filter that is very large for the pond size. I don't over feed.
Usually what the will eat in a few minutes and only every other day.
Sometimes I let them go for a week and they eat the algae. I've been
keeping fish since 1970 so have plenty of experience. Commercially bred
rare Killifish (was involved in a breeding project to help save a species of
endangered desert pupfish)& Betas back in the early 70's & 80's. Then a
sundry other types of fish. In other words I know what I am doing and also
know about all the rip-offs and unnecessary gadgets that are sold for
aquarium lovers. I believe in rigid water changes(unless we have allot of
rain). What works for me may not work for other people or visa versa.
Other the years it all becomes intuition..like anything else. LOL MIKE
"Mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> That's how we find bream beds in Alabama. <g>
> Mark B.
>
> wrote:
> > I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced
"fishy"
> > smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a
wiff
> > of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone
ever
> > notice that??? Mike
> > "Lee B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.
> >>
> >>I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
> >
> > few
> >
> >>gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
> >
> > that
> >
> >>once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
> >>good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
> >
> > or
> >
> >>river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
> >>water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
> >>captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
> >
> > up
> >
> >>to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing
out
> >>the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
> >
> > strived
> >
> >>for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end
of
> >
> > a
> >
> >>chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
> >
> > My
> >
> >>fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
> >
> > responsibility,
> >
> >>and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
> >>ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them
healthy,
> >>too.
> >>
> >>Lee
> >>
> > wrote in message
...
> >>
> >>>Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
> >>
> >>adapt
> >>
> >>>to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
> >
> > water
> >
> >>>quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
> >>>level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every
time
> >>
> >>it
> >>
> >>>rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water
quality???
> >>>I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
> >>>"Lee B." > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
> >
> > keeping
> >
> >>is
> >>
> >>>>that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
> >>>
> >>>alone
> >>>
> >>>>the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
> >
> > well
> >
> >>>for
> >>>
> >>>>you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
> >
> > part
> >
> >>of
> >>
> >>>>the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
> >>>
> >>>thank
> >>>
> >>>>your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.
> >>>>
> >>>>Lee
> >>>>
> > wrote in message
> >>
> ...
> >>
> >>>>>Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
> >>>
> >>>water
> >>>
> >>>>PH
> >>>>
> >>>>>etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
> >>>>
> >>>>dependent
> >>>>
> >>>>>on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
> >>>
> >>>..that
> >>>
> >>>>in
> >>>>
> >>>>>itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
> >>>
> >>>Summer
> >>>
> >>>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>>might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
> >
> > drive
> >
> >>>>>myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
> >>
> >>My
> >>
> >>>10
> >>>
> >>>>>year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
> >>>
> >>>allot
> >>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>>work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
> >>>
> >>>have
> >>>
> >>>>>fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
> >>
> >>goldfish
> >>
> >>>>are
> >>>>
> >>>>>those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>