Hiding Fish and H2O is good

[Kris Kauker]

I hope I can find some help here, I've read and posted a few messages
here and there, so here it goes.....

I have a 125 gallon (yeah, that's all) pond. It's been up a running
for three years now. I added two comets a few weeks ago and a
Butterfly Koi over a week ago. For the past week, all the fish have
seem to be hidding in the corners of the pond or hiding together at
the bottom of the pond. This weekend, I lost the Butterfly fish.
This AM, I found one of the baby fish, about a year old flipped
himself out of the pond and out onto the ground. Luckily, it must
have just happened and I was able to place him back in the pond and I
quickly got him into a bowl.

I checked the all the levels with the following:
Ammonia - 0.0
pH - 6.9
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 80!

Yup, 80! I did some quick internet searching and came up with a water
change. I changed 50% of the water and filled it back up and
de-chlorinated the water. I also added some aquarium salt. The fish
are doing a little better, but some are still hidding. I again
checked the levels and all were the same except for the Nitrate that
was down to 20.

Any ideas on the problem?
SHould I be more concerned about the water quality?

This is the first major problem that I've had with the pond and I'm
lucky to say that's all.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kris Kauker
kkauker at princeton dot edu

[Ka30P]

Hi Kris!

Usually when water problems start they actually started with overstocking.
Our rule of thumb is 20 - 40 gallons per goldfish and 1000 gallons for koi with
100 gallons for every additional koi.

It is tricky, at best, to keep water parameters going with overstocking and
once it goes out of whack, as we've recently learned, the numbers can be
adjusted but often the fish problems are only beginning.

So look at your fish numbers and see if you can do any adjusting that way.
Others will chime in.
(I have taken the coward's route. I have about 20 goldfish in 3,000.... ;-)


kathy :-)
<A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/">Once upon a pond</A>

[George]

"Kris Kauker" > wrote in message
om...
>I hope I can find some help here, I've read and posted a few messages
> here and there, so here it goes.....
>
> I have a 125 gallon (yeah, that's all) pond. It's been up a running
> for three years now. I added two comets a few weeks ago and a
> Butterfly Koi over a week ago. For the past week, all the fish have
> seem to be hidding in the corners of the pond or hiding together at
> the bottom of the pond. This weekend, I lost the Butterfly fish.
> This AM, I found one of the baby fish, about a year old flipped
> himself out of the pond and out onto the ground. Luckily, it must
> have just happened and I was able to place him back in the pond and I
> quickly got him into a bowl.
>
> I checked the all the levels with the following:
> Ammonia - 0.0
> pH - 6.9
> Nitrite - 0.0
> Nitrate - 80!
>
> Yup, 80! I did some quick internet searching and came up with a water
> change. I changed 50% of the water and filled it back up and
> de-chlorinated the water. I also added some aquarium salt. The fish
> are doing a little better, but some are still hidding. I again
> checked the levels and all were the same except for the Nitrate that
> was down to 20.
>
> Any ideas on the problem?
> SHould I be more concerned about the water quality?
>
> This is the first major problem that I've had with the pond and I'm
> lucky to say that's all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kris Kauker
> kkauker at princeton dot edu

Honestly, I think your pond is much too small to raise koi. Stick with the
goldfish, and don't over-populate it. Also, it looks like the pH was low, while
the Nitrate was a little high. Consider including some limestone into your
water feature. It will help prevent a pH crash.

[Mary kate]

[Newbie Bill]

Hi Kris
I am way far from an expert, but its late and I cant sleep so here's my 5
cents worth of advice. It has been very painful but ponding is once again
teaching me.... common sense. There are a number of factors you did not
mention, like how many fish already, plants etc etc. There are a bunch of
things you could consider and many rules of thumb. But if all new fish act
funny, one dies and another is willing to jump into the unknown to escape
its current surroundings you have water problems -and the older fish are not
as excited about it YET. Change what you do know - even 20 Nitrates is
about the max I believe - got any filtering root systems? Adding Limestone
to your water feature sounds good to me but in the short run I would add
Baking soda and slowly bring you ph up, like today. 7.5 would be a very
safe first goal ecspecially if you are not sure if 6.9 is your lowest in the
morning, not bouncing too drastically ph. I would want to know what your
fresh water going in is. If its over 6.9 subsequent water changes will at
least temporarily improve ph and nitrates. You still have 2 new fish, which
is probably at least 2 too many. My wild guess is that the 80 reading is
telling you your fish load was already getting excessive - the darn things
grow.
Okay-well 5 cents doesnt buy what it used to.
The calvary should be arriving in just a few hours.
Good Luck!
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
"Kris Kauker" > wrote in message
om...
> I hope I can find some help here, I've read and posted a few messages
> here and there, so here it goes.....
>
> I have a 125 gallon (yeah, that's all) pond. It's been up a running
> for three years now. I added two comets a few weeks ago and a
> Butterfly Koi over a week ago. For the past week, all the fish have
> seem to be hidding in the corners of the pond or hiding together at
> the bottom of the pond. This weekend, I lost the Butterfly fish.
> This AM, I found one of the baby fish, about a year old flipped
> himself out of the pond and out onto the ground. Luckily, it must
> have just happened and I was able to place him back in the pond and I
> quickly got him into a bowl.
>
> I checked the all the levels with the following:
> Ammonia - 0.0
> pH - 6.9
> Nitrite - 0.0
> Nitrate - 80!
>
> Yup, 80! I did some quick internet searching and came up with a water
> change. I changed 50% of the water and filled it back up and
> de-chlorinated the water. I also added some aquarium salt. The fish
> are doing a little better, but some are still hidding. I again
> checked the levels and all were the same except for the Nitrate that
> was down to 20.
>
> Any ideas on the problem?
> SHould I be more concerned about the water quality?
>
> This is the first major problem that I've had with the pond and I'm
> lucky to say that's all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kris Kauker
> kkauker at princeton dot edu

[Julia Kauker]

Thanks for all the help so far. I just came home from work and will look
over the responses and see what I can do tonight.

Here are some of the details I left out.....

125 gallons
Fish roll-call:
1 Fat comet (original from four years ago about four inches long)
2 Smaller comets (inch long,babys from a comet that was taken by Heron)
1 comet (about two inches)
1 Ghost Koi (about two inches long)
Plant roll-call:
1 half gallon mexican magnoila (from what I'm told)
1/4 gallon Iris
1/4 gallon grass
1/4 gallon grass
I treated the plants with AgSafe Aquatic-Tabs (Pond plant food) last week
Filter:
BioFilter 500
Pump (don't remember)
Small 80 gph pump for added cirulation
The pump is part of the fountain system

I'm not sure what more information is needed. I have images, but they are
on my work computer.

Thanks for any more help.

Kris KAuker




"Kris Kauker" > wrote in message
om...
> I hope I can find some help here, I've read and posted a few messages
> here and there, so here it goes.....
>
> I have a 125 gallon (yeah, that's all) pond. It's been up a running
> for three years now. I added two comets a few weeks ago and a
> Butterfly Koi over a week ago. For the past week, all the fish have
> seem to be hidding in the corners of the pond or hiding together at
> the bottom of the pond. This weekend, I lost the Butterfly fish.
> This AM, I found one of the baby fish, about a year old flipped
> himself out of the pond and out onto the ground. Luckily, it must
> have just happened and I was able to place him back in the pond and I
> quickly got him into a bowl.
>
> I checked the all the levels with the following:
> Ammonia - 0.0
> pH - 6.9
> Nitrite - 0.0
> Nitrate - 80!
>
> Yup, 80! I did some quick internet searching and came up with a water
> change. I changed 50% of the water and filled it back up and
> de-chlorinated the water. I also added some aquarium salt. The fish
> are doing a little better, but some are still hidding. I again
> checked the levels and all were the same except for the Nitrate that
> was down to 20.
>
> Any ideas on the problem?
> SHould I be more concerned about the water quality?
>
> This is the first major problem that I've had with the pond and I'm
> lucky to say that's all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kris Kauker
> kkauker at princeton dot edu

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I'd like to know what your buffering is, which requires a KH test or
testing the pH at dusk and dawn.

A swing over .4 means you don't have enough buffering, and as mentioned,
you can use simple baking soda to bring this up. Unstable pH will cause
fish to hide, flash, jump out of the pond.... and many other stress
indications, the worst being disease and death.

Bring the pH slowly, add 1/8 to 1/4 cup wait several hours and check pH, if
it has barely changed you'll have an idea how much you can add safely. Big
change reduce, little change add more. You want your KH to be about 100 ppm
(you will need a test kit to find out what it really is.) ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website


>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:32:58 -0400, "Julia Kauker" > wrote:

>Thanks for all the help so far. I just came home from work and will look
>over the responses and see what I can do tonight.
>
>Here are some of the details I left out.....
>
>125 gallons
>Fish roll-call:
> 1 Fat comet (original from four years ago about four inches long)
> 2 Smaller comets (inch long,babys from a comet that was taken by Heron)
> 1 comet (about two inches)
> 1 Ghost Koi (about two inches long)
>Plant roll-call:
> 1 half gallon mexican magnoila (from what I'm told)
> 1/4 gallon Iris
> 1/4 gallon grass
> 1/4 gallon grass
>I treated the plants with AgSafe Aquatic-Tabs (Pond plant food) last week
>Filter:
> BioFilter 500
> Pump (don't remember)
> Small 80 gph pump for added cirulation
> The pump is part of the fountain system
>
>I'm not sure what more information is needed. I have images, but they are
>on my work computer.
>
>Thanks for any more help.
>
>Kris KAuker
>
>
>
>
>"Kris Kauker" > wrote in message
om...
>> I hope I can find some help here, I've read and posted a few messages
>> here and there, so here it goes.....
>>
>> I have a 125 gallon (yeah, that's all) pond. It's been up a running
>> for three years now. I added two comets a few weeks ago and a
>> Butterfly Koi over a week ago. For the past week, all the fish have
>> seem to be hidding in the corners of the pond or hiding together at
>> the bottom of the pond. This weekend, I lost the Butterfly fish.
>> This AM, I found one of the baby fish, about a year old flipped
>> himself out of the pond and out onto the ground. Luckily, it must
>> have just happened and I was able to place him back in the pond and I
>> quickly got him into a bowl.
>>
>> I checked the all the levels with the following:
>> Ammonia - 0.0
>> pH - 6.9
>> Nitrite - 0.0
>> Nitrate - 80!
>>
>> Yup, 80! I did some quick internet searching and came up with a water
>> change. I changed 50% of the water and filled it back up and
>> de-chlorinated the water. I also added some aquarium salt. The fish
>> are doing a little better, but some are still hidding. I again
>> checked the levels and all were the same except for the Nitrate that
>> was down to 20.
>>
>> Any ideas on the problem?
>> SHould I be more concerned about the water quality?
>>
>> This is the first major problem that I've had with the pond and I'm
>> lucky to say that's all.
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kris Kauker
>> kkauker at princeton dot edu
>