Settling Chamber out of 70g stock tank - How to create drain system (for flat bottomed tanks?)

[Lisa]

I've been weighing between digging a settle chamber out of liner or
using a 70g rubbermaid stock tank I have on hand. Today I'm leaning
towards the stock tank with a possible eye for upping it next season
or 2.

My ultimate pond goal is to have filter tanks that drain. Either via
pump or pulling a gate valve to a sump pit with sump pump.

This settle tank will be gravity fed and of course will be buried in
the ground.

But it's FLAT on the bottom. Does anyone have any clever ideas as to
how I can create the most maintenance free situation for this settle
chamber? How can I create a method to totally drain this tank to
remove settled solids?

[how]

Hi,
Settle chambers for mechanical filtration are the way to go, they don't
choke the pump even if dirty. Size and shape can make a difference because
the water must move slowly and not be agitated. The longer it stays in the
settle area the more settles out. A long narrow tank (basin) with the water
entering at the bottom of one end and pumped out from the top of the other
end can be effective. Longer and deeper is better, also consider keeping the
basin covered which removes the amount of water in the chamber from sun
exposure. The correct size is dependent on the ponds volume and pump size. I
don't know how big your pond is going to be but for example, if you are
using a 1500 gph pump to move water through the 70 gallon tank then the
water will be moving too fast to be really effective as a settle chamber.
If you go with the Rubbermaid a wet vac can be used to keep the bottom
clean. Because the bottom is flat using a valve to clean it would be
ineffective, it would work but could take a lot of water.
Remember you can't make one too big but you can make one too small.
There are vortex filters also where the water can move faster but they
'settle' things centrifugally. They also clean much easier. The best of
these are bought, IMO.
HTH, -_- how
no NEWS is good for a reply


"Lisa" > wrote in message
om...
> I've been weighing between digging a settle chamber out of liner or
> using a 70g rubbermaid stock tank I have on hand.
> snips
> This settle tank will be gravity fed and of course will be buried in
> the ground.
> But it's FLAT on the bottom.

[Lisa]

How - Thanks for your input.

The setup would be: 4" bottom drain to 70g settle, feeding 50g
mechanical filter with brushes, feeding Ultima II 4000 bead filter,
feeding waterfall/stream. I'm not sure what pump I'll be using yet,
but It will be in the range of 2400gph to 3500gph. Since conventional
wisdom says a 4" pipe can handle 3000-3500 gph rather nicely.

I have a 2400-2500 gallon pond.

My "easy" thoughts are to slightly tilt the tank to one corner where a
drain would be installed. Yet there will be residual gunk on the
bottom due to the proposed tilt which would be very slight. I guess
the only other concept would be to somehow create a cone shape in the
tank but not sure what I can construct to accomplish that. Concrete?
Cut out bottom & dig the cone into the soil, liner it & have drain
there?

Still taking clever suggestions. :)

"how" > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> Settle chambers for mechanical filtration are the way to go, they don't
> choke the pump even if dirty. Size and shape can make a difference because
> the water must move slowly and not be agitated. The longer it stays in the
> settle area the more settles out. A long narrow tank (basin) with the water
> entering at the bottom of one end and pumped out from the top of the other
> end can be effective. Longer and deeper is better, also consider keeping the
> basin covered which removes the amount of water in the chamber from sun
> exposure. The correct size is dependent on the ponds volume and pump size. I
> don't know how big your pond is going to be but for example, if you are
> using a 1500 gph pump to move water through the 70 gallon tank then the
> water will be moving too fast to be really effective as a settle chamber.
> If you go with the Rubbermaid a wet vac can be used to keep the bottom
> clean. Because the bottom is flat using a valve to clean it would be
> ineffective, it would work but could take a lot of water.
> Remember you can't make one too big but you can make one too small.
> There are vortex filters also where the water can move faster but they
> 'settle' things centrifugally. They also clean much easier. The best of
> these are bought, IMO.
> HTH, -_- how
> no NEWS is good for a reply
>
>
> "Lisa" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I've been weighing between digging a settle chamber out of liner or
> > using a 70g rubbermaid stock tank I have on hand.
> > snips
> > This settle tank will be gravity fed and of course will be buried in
> > the ground.
> > But it's FLAT on the bottom.

[how]

Hi,
Don't tilt the tank in the ground - looks tacky. Tilt it to the desired
angle before installation and pour a concrete layer and when cured you have
a slanted bottom. A bulkhead fitting could be installed through the bottom
at the lowest point. Put the fitting in first and then the concrete. This
won't be optimal but better than a flat bottom.
The plan of creating a cone with liner in the soil is interesting but cones
work best if the water is delivered at a certain angle to the cone. Its the
turbulance thing again. I don't see this being practicle but if you do it
keep us posted.
Still don't think the Rubbermaid 70 gallon is big enough but it seems that
you have other mechanical filters in mind. Brushes work great also.
Personally never did the bead thing.
How is the 70 gallon tank going to the 50 gallon brush basin? Tell me you
are going to pump out of the 50 to the bead, right?
Remember ALL filters work, some better than others and some make you work
more.
HTH, -_- how
no NEWS is good for a reply


"Lisa" > wrote in message
om...
> How - Thanks for your input.
>
> The setup would be: 4" bottom drain to 70g settle, feeding 50g
> mechanical filter with brushes, feeding Ultima II 4000 bead filter,
> feeding waterfall/stream. I'm not sure what pump I'll be using yet,
> but It will be in the range of 2400gph to 3500gph. Since conventional
> wisdom says a 4" pipe can handle 3000-3500 gph rather nicely.
>
> I have a 2400-2500 gallon pond.
>
> My "easy" thoughts are to slightly tilt the tank to one corner where a
> drain would be installed. Yet there will be residual gunk on the
> bottom due to the proposed tilt which would be very slight. I guess
> the only other concept would be to somehow create a cone shape in the
> tank but not sure what I can construct to accomplish that. Concrete?
> Cut out bottom & dig the cone into the soil, liner it & have drain
> there?
>
> Still taking clever suggestions. :)

[Lisa]

I'll think about the concrete thing. I'm worried about cracking as
I'm in z5a Chicago area.

Yes - I'm still up in the air & taking suggestions for a vortex/settle
chamber. However, the area is wooded & digging a 1,000 vortex is
going to be tricky. :)

The plan is:
Vortex/Settle chamber feeding to
50 gallon mechanical filter w/brushes feeding to
Ultima II 4,000 bead filter (mostly bio but some mech, holds about
50g?) feeding to pond

The 70g settle will feed the 50g mech via a piece of 4" pipe.
In the settle water from the 4" bottom drain would come in on the side
with a sweep inside the tank. The output would be in the side and
water would flow into the mech chamber high & in the center of the 70g
(surface area). The plan would then probably be suspend some brushes
around the output pipe - or create some sort of microscreen ot even
separate the input/output pipe by horizontal screen (which I figure
would take a long time to become completely blocked) then flowing into
mech brush chamber.

What is your settle/vortex like? I'm still taking suggestions on it
and am willing to nix the 70g stock tank idea for something better.

"how" > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> Don't tilt the tank in the ground - looks tacky. Tilt it to the desired
> angle before installation and pour a concrete layer and when cured you have
> a slanted bottom. A bulkhead fitting could be installed through the bottom
> at the lowest point. Put the fitting in first and then the concrete. This
> won't be optimal but better than a flat bottom.
> The plan of creating a cone with liner in the soil is interesting but cones
> work best if the water is delivered at a certain angle to the cone. Its the
> turbulance thing again. I don't see this being practicle but if you do it
> keep us posted.
> Still don't think the Rubbermaid 70 gallon is big enough but it seems that
> you have other mechanical filters in mind. Brushes work great also.
> Personally never did the bead thing.
> How is the 70 gallon tank going to the 50 gallon brush basin? Tell me you
> are going to pump out of the 50 to the bead, right?
> Remember ALL filters work, some better than others and some make you work
> more.
> HTH, -_- how
> no NEWS is good for a reply
>
>
> "Lisa" > wrote in message
> om...
> > How - Thanks for your input.
> >
> > The setup would be: 4" bottom drain to 70g settle, feeding 50g
> > mechanical filter with brushes, feeding Ultima II 4000 bead filter,
> > feeding waterfall/stream. I'm not sure what pump I'll be using yet,
> > but It will be in the range of 2400gph to 3500gph. Since conventional
> > wisdom says a 4" pipe can handle 3000-3500 gph rather nicely.
> >
> > I have a 2400-2500 gallon pond.
> >
> > My "easy" thoughts are to slightly tilt the tank to one corner where a
> > drain would be installed. Yet there will be residual gunk on the
> > bottom due to the proposed tilt which would be very slight. I guess
> > the only other concept would be to somehow create a cone shape in the
> > tank but not sure what I can construct to accomplish that. Concrete?
> > Cut out bottom & dig the cone into the soil, liner it & have drain
> > there?
> >
> > Still taking clever suggestions. :)

[Karen Mullen]

In article >,
(Lisa) writes:

>But it's FLAT on the bottom. Does anyone have any clever ideas as to
>how I can create the most maintenance free situation for this settle
>chamber? How can I create a method to totally drain this tank to
>remove settled solids?

I have a 100 gallon stock tank. We dug out and area for a piece of PVC to sit
in the ground and drilled out a hole in the stock tank to take a fitting. When
it's time to drain it everything washes down the drain using the hose. But I'm
also on a slope and the drain line is lower than the tub.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[how]

Hi,
Don't know for sure because I don't do winter but if the settle basin
survives frost heaves I think the small amount of concrete in the bottom
would also. Perhaps someone from 'up there' can help. Back to the 70 gallon
tank, having the water enter at the mid point on the surface (correct me if
needed) wastes the limited potential of this basin as a settle chamber.
Point- the water has already 'settled' somewhat at the bottom drain in the
pond, leave it on the bottom of the tank. Settling takes time, don't make
the particulate matter settle again. Bring the water from the pond to the
bottom of the tank and at one end. Remove the water from the top at the
other end (standpipe/s with brush works). This makes the water stay in the
chamber longer and when it comes to settling slow is the way to go.
I have never used vortex filters myself (yes I've made barrel filters with
sort of centrifugal filtering) but am familiar with them and how they work.
I saw these http://www.suburbanpond.com/biofilter.htm at a pond show years
ago and was impressed, there are many others also. My best efforts use the
straight line approach (like the 70 gallon) and if built big enough work
very well. http://pondworld.com/filter.html
Mechanical filters don't remove anything from ponds they just hold it for us
to remove, so things like screens, mats, brushes used before the pump will
clog and must be included in the maintenance program.

"Lisa" > wrote in message
om...
> I'll think about the concrete thing. I'm worried about cracking as
> I'm in z5a Chicago area.
>
> Yes - I'm still up in the air & taking suggestions for a vortex/settle
> chamber. However, the area is wooded & digging a 1,000 vortex is
> going to be tricky. :)
>
> The plan is:
> Vortex/Settle chamber feeding to
> 50 gallon mechanical filter w/brushes feeding to
> Ultima II 4,000 bead filter (mostly bio but some mech, holds about
> 50g?) feeding to pond
>
> The 70g settle will feed the 50g mech via a piece of 4" pipe.
> In the settle water from the 4" bottom drain would come in on the side
> with a sweep inside the tank. The output would be in the side and
> water would flow into the mech chamber high & in the center of the 70g
> (surface area). The plan would then probably be suspend some brushes
> around the output pipe - or create some sort of microscreen ot even
> separate the input/output pipe by horizontal screen (which I figure
> would take a long time to become completely blocked) then flowing into
> mech brush chamber.
>
> What is your settle/vortex like? I'm still taking suggestions on it
> and am willing to nix the 70g stock tank idea for something better.
>
> "how" > wrote in message
>...
> > Hi,
> > Don't tilt the tank in the ground - looks tacky. Tilt it to the desired
> > angle before installation and pour a concrete layer and when cured you
have
> > a slanted bottom. A bulkhead fitting could be installed through the
bottom
> > at the lowest point. Put the fitting in first and then the concrete.
This
> > won't be optimal but better than a flat bottom.
> > The plan of creating a cone with liner in the soil is interesting but
cones
> > work best if the water is delivered at a certain angle to the cone. Its
the
> > turbulance thing again. I don't see this being practicle but if you do
it
> > keep us posted.
> > Still don't think the Rubbermaid 70 gallon is big enough but it seems
that
> > you have other mechanical filters in mind. Brushes work great also.
> > Personally never did the bead thing.
> > How is the 70 gallon tank going to the 50 gallon brush basin? Tell me
you
> > are going to pump out of the 50 to the bead, right?
> > Remember ALL filters work, some better than others and some make you
work
> > more.
> > HTH, -_- how
> > no NEWS is good for a reply
> >
> >
> > "Lisa" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > How - Thanks for your input.
> > >
> > > The setup would be: 4" bottom drain to 70g settle, feeding 50g
> > > mechanical filter with brushes, feeding Ultima II 4000 bead filter,
> > > feeding waterfall/stream. I'm not sure what pump I'll be using yet,
> > > but It will be in the range of 2400gph to 3500gph. Since conventional
> > > wisdom says a 4" pipe can handle 3000-3500 gph rather nicely.
> > >
> > > I have a 2400-2500 gallon pond.
> > >
> > > My "easy" thoughts are to slightly tilt the tank to one corner where a
> > > drain would be installed. Yet there will be residual gunk on the
> > > bottom due to the proposed tilt which would be very slight. I guess
> > > the only other concept would be to somehow create a cone shape in the
> > > tank but not sure what I can construct to accomplish that. Concrete?
> > > Cut out bottom & dig the cone into the soil, liner it & have drain
> > > there?
> > >
> > > Still taking clever suggestions. :)

[Lisa]

Yes - that's how it will be. Bottom drain enters bottom area, water
leaves settle/vortex from the top. In the middle of the tank.

Just looking for ways to drain it easy. Wish I could heat gun it a
bit to dip down in the center, but I don't have the know-how or tools.
So I'll probably just tilt the tank to one corner.

"how" > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> Don't know for sure because I don't do winter but if the settle basin
> survives frost heaves I think the small amount of concrete in the bottom
> would also. Perhaps someone from 'up there' can help. Back to the 70 gallon
> tank, having the water enter at the mid point on the surface (correct me if
> needed) wastes the limited potential of this basin as a settle chamber.
> Point- the water has already 'settled' somewhat at the bottom drain in the
> pond, leave it on the bottom of the tank. Settling takes time, don't make
> the particulate matter settle again. Bring the water from the pond to the
> bottom of the tank and at one end. Remove the water from the top at the
> other end (standpipe/s with brush works). This makes the water stay in the
> chamber longer and when it comes to settling slow is the way to go.
> I have never used vortex filters myself (yes I've made barrel filters with
> sort of centrifugal filtering) but am familiar with them and how they work.
> I saw these http://www.suburbanpond.com/biofilter.htm at a pond show years
> ago and was impressed, there are many others also. My best efforts use the
> straight line approach (like the 70 gallon) and if built big enough work
> very well. http://pondworld.com/filter.html
> Mechanical filters don't remove anything from ponds they just hold it for us
> to remove, so things like screens, mats, brushes used before the pump will
> clog and must be included in the maintenance program.
>
> "Lisa" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'll think about the concrete thing. I'm worried about cracking as
> > I'm in z5a Chicago area.
> >
> > Yes - I'm still up in the air & taking suggestions for a vortex/settle
> > chamber. However, the area is wooded & digging a 1,000 vortex is
> > going to be tricky. :)
> >
> > The plan is:
> > Vortex/Settle chamber feeding to
> > 50 gallon mechanical filter w/brushes feeding to
> > Ultima II 4,000 bead filter (mostly bio but some mech, holds about
> > 50g?) feeding to pond
> >
> > The 70g settle will feed the 50g mech via a piece of 4" pipe.
> > In the settle water from the 4" bottom drain would come in on the side
> > with a sweep inside the tank. The output would be in the side and
> > water would flow into the mech chamber high & in the center of the 70g
> > (surface area). The plan would then probably be suspend some brushes
> > around the output pipe - or create some sort of microscreen ot even
> > separate the input/output pipe by horizontal screen (which I figure
> > would take a long time to become completely blocked) then flowing into
> > mech brush chamber.
> >
> > What is your settle/vortex like? I'm still taking suggestions on it
> > and am willing to nix the 70g stock tank idea for something better.
> >
> > "how" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Hi,
> > > Don't tilt the tank in the ground - looks tacky. Tilt it to the desired
> > > angle before installation and pour a concrete layer and when cured you
> have
> > > a slanted bottom. A bulkhead fitting could be installed through the
> bottom
> > > at the lowest point. Put the fitting in first and then the concrete.
> This
> > > won't be optimal but better than a flat bottom.
> > > The plan of creating a cone with liner in the soil is interesting but
> cones
> > > work best if the water is delivered at a certain angle to the cone. Its
> the
> > > turbulance thing again. I don't see this being practicle but if you do
> it
> > > keep us posted.
> > > Still don't think the Rubbermaid 70 gallon is big enough but it seems
> that
> > > you have other mechanical filters in mind. Brushes work great also.
> > > Personally never did the bead thing.
> > > How is the 70 gallon tank going to the 50 gallon brush basin? Tell me
> you
> > > are going to pump out of the 50 to the bead, right?
> > > Remember ALL filters work, some better than others and some make you
> work
> > > more.
> > > HTH, -_- how
> > > no NEWS is good for a reply
> > >
> > >
> > > "Lisa" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > How - Thanks for your input.
> > > >
> > > > The setup would be: 4" bottom drain to 70g settle, feeding 50g
> > > > mechanical filter with brushes, feeding Ultima II 4000 bead filter,
> > > > feeding waterfall/stream. I'm not sure what pump I'll be using yet,
> > > > but It will be in the range of 2400gph to 3500gph. Since conventional
> > > > wisdom says a 4" pipe can handle 3000-3500 gph rather nicely.
> > > >
> > > > I have a 2400-2500 gallon pond.
> > > >
> > > > My "easy" thoughts are to slightly tilt the tank to one corner where a
> > > > drain would be installed. Yet there will be residual gunk on the
> > > > bottom due to the proposed tilt which would be very slight. I guess
> > > > the only other concept would be to somehow create a cone shape in the
> > > > tank but not sure what I can construct to accomplish that. Concrete?
> > > > Cut out bottom & dig the cone into the soil, liner it & have drain
> > > > there?
> > > >
> > > > Still taking clever suggestions. :)

[Sean Dinh]

Dig the hole for the tank. Dig the center deeper. The weight of the water will bow the middle of
the rubermaid tank's bottom, making sloped center. There is no need to pretreat it with a heat
gun.

Don't tilt the tank. It's weird that way.

Lisa wrote:

> Yes - that's how it will be. Bottom drain enters bottom area, water
> leaves settle/vortex from the top. In the middle of the tank.
>
> Just looking for ways to drain it easy. Wish I could heat gun it a
> bit to dip down in the center, but I don't have the know-how or tools.
> So I'll probably just tilt the tank to one corner.

[Lisa]

Sean - It won't dip. These tanks are amazingly strong.

I think tilting wouldn't be bad as I only need to have the water run
down. So only a slight (probably imperceivable) tilt is needed.

It was recommended to me to use a product called "Vinyl Patch" to
slightly cone the bottom to the drain. I've not used it before (or
any product like that).
Wondering if any one has played with it.

Sean Dinh > wrote in message >...
> Dig the hole for the tank. Dig the center deeper. The weight of the water will bow the middle of
> the rubermaid tank's bottom, making sloped center. There is no need to pretreat it with a heat
> gun.
>
> Don't tilt the tank. It's weird that way.
>
> Lisa wrote:
>
> > Yes - that's how it will be. Bottom drain enters bottom area, water
> > leaves settle/vortex from the top. In the middle of the tank.
> >
> > Just looking for ways to drain it easy. Wish I could heat gun it a
> > bit to dip down in the center, but I don't have the know-how or tools.
> > So I'll probably just tilt the tank to one corner.