Hlep

[Pond Diver]

Help me.

My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
How I don't know...

My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable. Anyway,
I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed the
string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.

Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is 18-24
inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim reaper
is on their shoulders.

Help!!

PondDiver

[Pond Diver]

See! Its got me so flustered I can't spell HELP


"Pond Diver" > wrote in message
...
> Help me.
>
> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
> How I don't know...
>
> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
Anyway,
> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
the
> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
>
> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
18-24
> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
reaper
> is on their shoulders.
>
> Help!!
>
> PondDiver
>
>

[Benign Vanilla]

"Pond Diver" > wrote in message
...
> Help me.
>
> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
> How I don't know...
>
> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
Anyway,
> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
the
> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
>
> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
18-24
> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
reaper
> is on their shoulders.

You say your params are OK. Is your ammonia zero? In warmer water, you'll
tend to have less oxygen. In a small amount like 250 gallons, you are more
suscetible to swings in chemistry, and the fish are more at risk. If you are
losing 2-3 per day...how many do you have in 250 gallons?

Are there any outside issues? Chemicals being sprayed, etc?

Are the plants OK?

Are any other critters dieing?

BV.

[Bonnie]

> You say your params are OK. Is your ammonia zero? In warmer water, you'll
> tend to have less oxygen. In a small amount like 250 gallons, you are more
> suscetible to swings in chemistry, and the fish are more at risk. If you are
> losing 2-3 per day...how many do you have in 250 gallons?
>
> Are there any outside issues? Chemicals being sprayed, etc?
>
> Are the plants OK?
>
> Are any other critters dieing?
>
> BV.
>
>

Yea, what he said. A ph of 8 is fine for a pond. I think
something else is most likely the problem.

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

[tim chandler]

Do you have any aeration at all, a bubbler, a waterfall, anything to put
some oxygen into the water?

"Pond Diver" > wrote in message
...
> Help me.
>
> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
> How I don't know...
>
> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
Anyway,
> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
the
> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
>
> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
18-24
> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
reaper
> is on their shoulders.
>
> Help!!
>
> PondDiver
>
>

[SanDiegoJoe]

"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

>
> "Pond Diver" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Help me.
>>
>> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
>> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
>> How I don't know...
>>
>> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
>> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
> Anyway,
>> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
>> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
>> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
> the
>> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
>> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
>>
>> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
>> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
> 18-24
>> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
>> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
> reaper
>> is on their shoulders.
>
> You say your params are OK. Is your ammonia zero? In warmer water, you'll
> tend to have less oxygen. In a small amount like 250 gallons, you are more
> suscetible to swings in chemistry, and the fish are more at risk. If you are
> losing 2-3 per day...how many do you have in 250 gallons?
>
> Are there any outside issues? Chemicals being sprayed, etc?
>
> Are the plants OK?
>
> Are any other critters dieing?
>
> BV.

If your parameters are good, I think we had a thread awhile back about
runoff into the pond containing pesticide. Any chance of that?


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons. Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[George]

"Pond Diver" > wrote in message
...
> See! Its got me so flustered I can't spell HELP

It would help if you provoded at least partial shade. The fact that your string
algae has died back tells me that you may have a problem with oxygen deficiency.
Try adding an aerator. A pH of 8.0 is ok for a pond. What kind of fish do you
have, and what are their symptoms? Are they gulping air at the surface?

>
> "Pond Diver" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Help me.
>>
>> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
>> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
>> How I don't know...
>>
>> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
>> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
> Anyway,
>> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
>> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
>> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
> the
>> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
>> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
>>
>> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
>> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
> 18-24
>> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
>> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
> reaper
>> is on their shoulders.
>>
>> Help!!
>>
>> PondDiver
>>
>>
>
>

[Barbara2245]

"tim chandler" > wrote in message >...
> Do you have any aeration at all, a bubbler, a waterfall, anything to put
> some oxygen into the water?
>
> "Pond Diver" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Help me.
> >
> > My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly why.
> > But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around 8.0)
> > How I don't know...
> >
> > My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now the
> > pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
> Anyway,
> > I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything came
> > back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a pH
> > of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even noticed
> the
> > string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
> > Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
> >
> > Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
> > because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
> 18-24
> > inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
> > length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
> reaper
> > is on their shoulders.
> >
> > Help!!
> >
> > PondDiver
> >
> >

You had too many fish and now they are down to a safer amount. A pond
needs a pump-fountain to get oxygen in to the water and a bio-filter
to handle the ammonia, etc. The pond needs 60% surface coverage to
keep the temps down especially in a smaller pond. My pond is in full
sun and the well water has a 8.4 pH. Even when I had a smaller pond
there were no problems due to the fountain-pump and bio-filter. Invest
in Low-Maintanence Water Gardens by Helen Nash. Good luck.

[Pond Diver]

Noticed my lillies are turning yellow and dying. Some pads aren't even
getting large, just turning brown around the edges

No other critters other than goldfish. I HAD around 25 or so. I had 19 in
the 250 gal and 6 in the smaller 90 gal


>
> Are the plants OK?
>
> Are any other critters dieing?
>
> BV.
>
>

[Pond Diver]

nope, we purposely do not use pesticides in the backyard period due to our
dogs and the pond(s).


..
"SanDiegoJoe" > wrote in message
...
> "Benign Vanilla" wrote:
>
> >
> > "Pond Diver" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Help me.
> >>
> >> My fish are dying at a rate of 2 - 3 per day. I don't know exactly
why.
> >> But I suspect it is a combination of temperature and pH. (pH around
8.0)
> >> How I don't know...
> >>
> >> My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy. But now
the
> >> pond is cooler sense the outdoor temps have become more tolerable.
> > Anyway,
> >> I noticed I was loosing some fish. I tested the water and everything
came
> >> back OK except the water hardness, and pH. Both were way high. like a
pH
> >> of 8.0. Ammonia and nitrate levels were great. Hell, I've even
noticed
> > the
> >> string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as
well!!!!
> >> Something is in my pond water and its killing my fish.
> >>
> >> Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond
deeper
> >> because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is
> > 18-24
> >> inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches
in
> >> length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim
> > reaper
> >> is on their shoulders.
> >
> > You say your params are OK. Is your ammonia zero? In warmer water,
you'll
> > tend to have less oxygen. In a small amount like 250 gallons, you are
more
> > suscetible to swings in chemistry, and the fish are more at risk. If you
are
> > losing 2-3 per day...how many do you have in 250 gallons?
> >
> > Are there any outside issues? Chemicals being sprayed, etc?
> >
> > Are the plants OK?
> >
> > Are any other critters dieing?
> >
> > BV.
>
> If your parameters are good, I think we had a thread awhile back about
> runoff into the pond containing pesticide. Any chance of that?
>
>
> San Diego Joe
> 4,000 - 5,000 Gallons. Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[[email protected]]

high temp requires serious aeration
the depth is not suitable for stability if the temp swings wildly it will kill GF
pH is fine
major problem is you are way overstocked. figure 20-30 gallons of water per GF
1. start doing large water changes, like 50 gallons
2. get an air pump and 2 large air stones
3. add a pound of crystal salt... that is rock salt for water softeners or kosher
salt, no additives. that will help the survivors throw off whatever

if you got birds bathing in the pond they are bringing diseases in.. but I think your
major problem is overstocking.. you dont say what kind of filter you got going on
there. Ingrid


"Pond Diver" > wrote:
>My pond is in full sun and can get quite warm above 80F easy.
>string algae that started to grow dropped deader than a hammer as well!!!!
>Any ideas? Can temp cause a high pH level? Should I make my pond deeper
>because its in full sun and can get quite warm? The current depth is 18-24
>inches and approx 250gal. I had about 20 goldfish averaging 3-6 inches in
>length. I'm down to about 8 and they're moaping around like the grim reaper
>is on their shoulders.
>
>Help!!
>
>PondDiver
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> high temp requires serious aeration
> the depth is not suitable for stability if the temp swings wildly it will
kill GF
> pH is fine
> major problem is you are way overstocked. figure 20-30 gallons of water
per GF
> 1. start doing large water changes, like 50 gallons
> 2. get an air pump and 2 large air stones
> 3. add a pound of crystal salt... that is rock salt for water softeners or
kosher
> salt, no additives. that will help the survivors throw off whatever
>
> if you got birds bathing in the pond they are bringing diseases in.. but I
think your
> major problem is overstocking.. you dont say what kind of filter you got
going on
> there. Ingrid
<snip>

I partially concur.

1. Get some aeration going. You can never have too much
2. Shade the pond if possible to help keep temps down.
3. Partial water changes will help keep the temps down, but BE SURE TO TREAT
FOR CHLORINE/CHLORAMINE.

As Ingrid would suspect, I don't agree with the salt item. :) But hey Ingrid
3 out of 4 aint' bad is it?

BV.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Pondiver,

You have tooo many fish in your ponds with no
filtration or at least you didn't mention any
filtration. You also didn't relate the size of your
fish. The big ones always die off first when the
conditions cause stress, especially when the stress is
low values of oxygen.

pH 8 is fine for Goldfish. And hard water is fine,
mine is usually around 300ppm. My ponds are usually
about ph 8.3 . You didn't mention your water quality
measurements, but any ammonia and/or nitrites are bad
especially when the temps climb.

I started out with 100 gallon pond and temps would get
up to 85 plus degrees when out the outside air temps
got to 108 and I never lost a fish. I had a simple
bucket filter though, which worked great running with
an old Sears Craftsman 350 gph pump, but I had only 6
fish in the pond. If you have no filtration you should
have only one fish per 20 or 25 gallons. Just remember
any thing that you put in the pond like the pot for a
lily takes away water volume by displacement.

OK all that being said, if oxygen is your problem, do
not, I repeat, DO NOT add salt to you pond for any
reason. Salinity, even is low concentrations takes
away the waters ability to hold oxygen and combine that
with high temp water you have death situation. A drop
on only .5mg of oxygen per liter and cause death of
your largest fish if the water is already low on
oxygen. Also, you didn't say where you lived, at least
where I read, so you also have to remember that
altitude also reduces the higher your elevation.

So to remedy this situation is first get an airline and
airstone in the pond pumping air into the pond. Next
reduce you stocking levels to 1 fish per 20 or 25
gallons. You tend should think about a simple filter
to put on your pond. Water movement is always good.
When I had my first 100 gallon pond and water temps
almost went into the 90's the fish don't do a lot of
moving around, they just sat around on the bottom under
the shade of the lilies pads floating above.

HTH

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------------
Pond Diver wrote:
> Noticed my lillies are turning yellow and dying. Some pads aren't even
> getting large, just turning brown around the edges
>
> No other critters other than goldfish. I HAD around 25 or so. I had 19 in
> the 250 gal and 6 in the smaller 90 gal
>
>
>
>>Are the plants OK?
>>
>>Are any other critters dieing?
>>
>>BV.
>>
>>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/do.html
"Four pounds of salt per hundred gallons of water (5 ppt) will decrease the oxygen
saturation levels about 1 mg/l. I havent had time to check those stats, but 4 lbs is
0.2%, way over recommended levels. 1 lb per 100 gallons would drop saturation 1/4 of
a mg/l and the benefit of the salt vastly exceeds the possibility of an oxygen
problem. There is NO PROBLEM if the water is being properly aerated.
Consider that a great great many of the people on this list have sufficient salt
levels in their TAP water right out of the facet. I dont cause my water comes from
Lake Michigan and I am not near salt water like on the coasts.
It is always a good idea to determine how much salt is in the tap water before adding
more of course. Ingrid


>OK all that being said, if oxygen is your problem, do
>not, I repeat, DO NOT add salt to you pond for any
>reason. Salinity, even is low concentrations takes
>away the waters ability to hold oxygen and combine that
>with high temp water you have death situation. A drop
>on only .5mg of oxygen per liter and cause death of
>your largest fish if the water is already low on
>oxygen.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.