Chemistry/Plant help Please!

[Bill Stock]

I posted this one before, but I'll try again.

My Lillies and Water Hyacinths seem to be deteriorating from the inside out.
Looks like they're burning up.

PH seems to be about 8, KH 300+, Total Hardness 75 or so. Nitrates and
Nitrites are nil. Plants did very well last year, WH took over the pond. I
have not added any Potash yet. GF seem OK. Algea is doing well. :(

Tested all this a couple of more times and checked the local water supply. A
more resonable set of readings would be PH 7.5+. KH 150+ and GH about 75.
The local water authority claims PH of 7.5, KH of 80+ and GH of 141. I've
got a limestone waterfall, so that's why the KH is higher. The strips say
to read them at 25 sevconds, but if I leave them they keep getting darker
and darker. So is 150 KH the real number?

Any thoughts on my "rotting plants", assuming my chemistry is reasonable?
The lillies have two flowers now, but have stopped opening during the day.
Too cool perhaps. I've added a heaping teaspoon of Potash to my 500 Imp
gallons for now.

Any help appreciated.

[San Diego Joe]

"Bill Stock" wrote:

> I posted this one before, but I'll try again.
>
> My Lillies and Water Hyacinths seem to be deteriorating from the inside out.
> Looks like they're burning up.
>
> PH seems to be about 8, KH 300+, Total Hardness 75 or so. Nitrates and
> Nitrites are nil. Plants did very well last year, WH took over the pond. I
> have not added any Potash yet. GF seem OK. Algea is doing well. :(
>
> Tested all this a couple of more times and checked the local water supply. A
> more resonable set of readings would be PH 7.5+. KH 150+ and GH about 75.
> The local water authority claims PH of 7.5, KH of 80+ and GH of 141. I've
> got a limestone waterfall, so that's why the KH is higher. The strips say
> to read them at 25 sevconds, but if I leave them they keep getting darker
> and darker. So is 150 KH the real number?
>
> Any thoughts on my "rotting plants", assuming my chemistry is reasonable?
> The lillies have two flowers now, but have stopped opening during the day.
> Too cool perhaps. I've added a heaping teaspoon of Potash to my 500 Imp
> gallons for now.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
>
This is probably a long shot, but are the leaves turning brown from the
outside inward? It may be there is too much salt in the water. If so, you
might try a partial water change.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.



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[Bill Stock]

"San Diego Joe" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" wrote:
>
> > I posted this one before, but I'll try again.
> >
> > My Lillies and Water Hyacinths seem to be deteriorating from the inside
out.
> > Looks like they're burning up.
> >
> > PH seems to be about 8, KH 300+, Total Hardness 75 or so. Nitrates and
> > Nitrites are nil. Plants did very well last year, WH took over the pond.
I
> > have not added any Potash yet. GF seem OK. Algea is doing well. :(
> >
> > Tested all this a couple of more times and checked the local water
supply. A
> > more resonable set of readings would be PH 7.5+. KH 150+ and GH about
75.
> > The local water authority claims PH of 7.5, KH of 80+ and GH of 141.
I've
> > got a limestone waterfall, so that's why the KH is higher. The strips
say
> > to read them at 25 sevconds, but if I leave them they keep getting
darker
> > and darker. So is 150 KH the real number?
> >
> > Any thoughts on my "rotting plants", assuming my chemistry is
reasonable?
> > The lillies have two flowers now, but have stopped opening during the
day.
> > Too cool perhaps. I've added a heaping teaspoon of Potash to my 500 Imp
> > gallons for now.
> >
> > Any help appreciated.
> >
> >
> This is probably a long shot, but are the leaves turning brown from the
> outside inward? It may be there is too much salt in the water. If so, you
> might try a partial water change.


The lilies are getting long perfectly straight cracks in them from the edge
to the middle. Then seem to be rotting away from the outside tp the inside
as you indicated. Until a couple of weeks ago the pond was getting constant
water changes, before I fixed my leaky waterfall. I'm not sure where any
salt would be coming from, how can I test for salt? Perhaps I was not adding
enough dechlor.

The Water Hyacinths look awful too, pale yellow and seem to be rotting away
from the outside. I did notice that one has a very large hole in it. I
suspect a bird did this. The Iris are completely gone now, eaten/rotted
away. I also noticed that last year's WH are doing much better than the new
WH. The old WH have small air filled bulbs, while the new WH have large
fibrous bulbs. The old WH were kept in the aquarium during the winter with
the GF and had basically NO roots when I put them outside. They've got 4"
roots now.

It might just be a lack of sun, it's been a very poor summer.

>
> San Diego Joe
> 4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
> Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.
>

Thanks Joe

[Bill Stock]

"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:33:56 -0400, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
> >Tested all this a couple of more times and checked the local water
supply. A
> >more resonable set of readings would be PH 7.5+. KH 150+ and GH about 75.
> >The local water authority claims PH of 7.5, KH of 80+ and GH of 141. I've
> >got a limestone waterfall, so that's why the KH is higher. The strips
say
> >to read them at 25 sevconds, but if I leave them they keep getting darker
> >and darker. So is 150 KH the real number?
> >
> >Any thoughts on my "rotting plants", assuming my chemistry is reasonable?
> >The lillies have two flowers now, but have stopped opening during the
day.
> >Too cool perhaps. I've added a heaping teaspoon of Potash to my 500 Imp
> >gallons for now.
>
> My blooms only last for three days then drop below the surface and
> fade away.
>
> I don't know what to tell you about test strips, I use a differnt test
> with drops and 5ml tubes from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc, but your
> limestone waterfall caught my eye. I use a sock full of ground
> limestone to buffer my pH and it ususally keeps it around 7.8 mornings
> and 8.2 evenings. My lilies are in pots with garden soil and stones
> to keep the fish from rooting through the dirt and expelling it to the
> pond floor.

Yes my Lillies are in stone covered baskets to keep the GF out. PH seems to
hover between 7 and 8. I think my limestone (KH) keeps it pretty stable.

> I've only seen water hyacinths rot in a 20 gallon container of water
> from very acid water, pH below 6 caused by rain. I've heard they
> don't grow well in very high pH either. I hope someone else can help
> you.

I had not heard this. I'll have to do some more reading.

Thanks.


> Regards,
>
> Hal

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

WH can't take up the nutrients when the pH seems to be very high or very
low, I don't know what the exact numbers are, but my educated guess is 6.5
to 8.5 with the middle being the best. As with all plants, taking up
nutrients becomes less and less as the scale goes higher or lower from
their best point. Which, btw, is also how efficient one's bacterial works
in one's filter.

WH though have been an enigma around here, making me wonder if the south
finally found a way to control them, sprayed the lot unknowingly to
vendors, who shipped them north and now they're all failing to thrive?

I've got a pH of 8 in my koi pond and usually by this time have HUGH WH in
my filter, they rotted away this year. Yet ones that were put in holding
tubs with lilies and a few tadpoles lived, didn't grow vigorously, but are
green and have small babies. One of those I just recently moved to the
filter to see what happens. Salt level 0.08% and I've had WH thrive in salt
of 0.12% before. ~ jan



>> I've only seen water hyacinths rot in a 20 gallon container of water
>> from very acid water, pH below 6 caused by rain. I've heard they
>> don't grow well in very high pH either. I hope someone else can help
>> you.
>
>I had not heard this. I'll have to do some more reading.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Bill Stock]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
s.com...
> WH can't take up the nutrients when the pH seems to be very high or very
> low, I don't know what the exact numbers are, but my educated guess is 6.5
> to 8.5 with the middle being the best. As with all plants, taking up
> nutrients becomes less and less as the scale goes higher or lower from
> their best point. Which, btw, is also how efficient one's bacterial works
> in one's filter.
>
> WH though have been an enigma around here, making me wonder if the south
> finally found a way to control them, sprayed the lot unknowingly to
> vendors, who shipped them north and now they're all failing to thrive?
>
> I've got a pH of 8 in my koi pond and usually by this time have HUGH WH in
> my filter, they rotted away this year. Yet ones that were put in holding
> tubs with lilies and a few tadpoles lived, didn't grow vigorously, but are
> green and have small babies. One of those I just recently moved to the
> filter to see what happens. Salt level 0.08% and I've had WH thrive in
salt
> of 0.12% before. ~ jan

Yep, not sure what's up with the WH this year. I've added Potash, so we
will see.


>
> >> I've only seen water hyacinths rot in a 20 gallon container of water
> >> from very acid water, pH below 6 caused by rain. I've heard they
> >> don't grow well in very high pH either. I hope someone else can help
> >> you.
> >
> >I had not heard this. I'll have to do some more reading.
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

According to my crappy test strips. PH 7 - 8, KH 150+ and GH 75+. Not sure
why GH is so low, when the tap water is 140+.

[Karen Mullen]

In article >, "Bill Stock" >
writes:

>Any thoughts on my "rotting plants",

I had some WH I bot start to turn brown and rot, but I added potash once a week
for 3 weeks and they are now putting out new growth from the rotted area and
are a healthy looking green.

Also, when I lived in Houston, TX I had a ph of 9 in my pond and my WH and WL
did fine, grew like mad, so I'm not so sure a high ph will kill them.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[Happy'Cam'per]

Bill

Your plants are'nt doing well because they have nothing to munch on!!! You
say your Nitrates are NIL. Either remove 2 thirds of all WH or add more fish
to keep the balance. I would just remove most of the plants that are'nt
looking too hot and give it a week or so. The Nitrate should build up again
and your plants will flourish. Also add that Potash aswell.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[Bill Stock]

"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message
...
> Bill
>
> Your plants are'nt doing well because they have nothing to munch on!!! You
> say your Nitrates are NIL. Either remove 2 thirds of all WH or add more
fish
> to keep the balance. I would just remove most of the plants that are'nt
> looking too hot and give it a week or so. The Nitrate should build up
again
> and your plants will flourish. Also add that Potash aswell.
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Thanks.

Funny thing is the WH from the aquarium seem better, than the new larger WH.
They have about four inches of roots, whereas they had none when I added
them to the pond. The aquarium GF savaged them over the winter. I think the
birds are pecking at the new WH too, as they can sit on the Iris pot, which
is just under the surface. At least I know what's happening to my Iris. I
found a couple of GF sitting on top of the stones munching away this
morning. I did not think there was room for them to get in there.

I have nine feeder GF in about 500 gallons, which should be lots of poop.
But they've just started eating the fish food after a month. I bought bigger
fish last year, but the Heron got a few, so I went for the 22 cent variety
this yeear.