BIO Question ??

[Steve \(Dart\)]

I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it will
take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
How long until it is working at 100%?
Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?

I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The corrugated
plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All crammed
into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would have a
pic.
thanks

[how]

"Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
...
> I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it
will
> take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> How long until it is working at 100%?
> Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>snip

Hi,
Curious, is it upflow or down? Colonization has begun already and I'm not
sure what 100% working looks like. There is, for sure, a too small for the
pond size but that has many factors, i.e. number of fish, gallons, feeding
of fish, flow rate, mechanical filtration happening before the bio, etc. Big
is better.
Biofiltration stops at about 40 degrees f, that's about 4.4 c for those who
do it correctly, so letting it freeze or not requires a cleaning and a
restart in spring.
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[RichToyBox]

The amount of time for the filter to develop enough to eat all the ammonia
will be fairly short, probably less than 2 weeks. It is not until those
bacteria are producing the nitrites that the next group of bacteria can
start growing and they are slower to come up to speed. The time could be as
much as six weeks. The number of bacteria are determined by the amount of
food available, so once established, if you shock the pond with a large
influx of new fish, you will go through the cycle again. While going
through the cycle, monitor ammonia and nitrite levels. If the ammonia
starts to go high, use an ammonia binding chemical like Amquel, to
neutralize the ammonia to prevent burns to the gills. If the nitrites start
to go high, then you can add salt to neutralize the effect of the nitrites
on the fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
...
> I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it
will
> take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> How long until it is working at 100%?
> Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>
> I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The corrugated
> plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
crammed
> into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would have a
> pic.
> thanks
>
>

[George]

"Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
...
>I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it will
> take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> How long until it is working at 100%?
> Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>
> I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The corrugated
> plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All crammed
> into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would have a
> pic.
> thanks
>

I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever heard of.

[George]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:sLkJc.92580$Oq2.29332@attbi_s52...
> The amount of time for the filter to develop enough to eat all the ammonia
> will be fairly short, probably less than 2 weeks. It is not until those
> bacteria are producing the nitrites that the next group of bacteria can
> start growing and they are slower to come up to speed. The time could be as
> much as six weeks. The number of bacteria are determined by the amount of
> food available, so once established, if you shock the pond with a large
> influx of new fish, you will go through the cycle again. While going
> through the cycle, monitor ammonia and nitrite levels. If the ammonia
> starts to go high, use an ammonia binding chemical like Amquel, to
> neutralize the ammonia to prevent burns to the gills. If the nitrites start
> to go high, then you can add salt to neutralize the effect of the nitrites
> on the fish.

I'm interested in knowing how adding salt neutralizes the effect of nitrites on
freshwater fish, since it does nothing for sal****er fish.

[how]

" George" > wrote in message
...
> snip
> I'm interested in knowing how adding salt neutralizes the effect of
nitrites on
> freshwater fish, since it does nothing for sal****er fish.
>

Hi,
I don't do salt water fish but this link talks about 'brown blood disease'
or nitrite poisoning which can happen with fresh water fish. Do a google
using "salt + brown blood" for a few hundred thousand more.
http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1390.htm
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[George]

"how" > wrote in message
...
>" George" > wrote in message
> ...
>> snip
>> I'm interested in knowing how adding salt neutralizes the effect of
> nitrites on
>> freshwater fish, since it does nothing for sal****er fish.
>>
>
> Hi,
> I don't do salt water fish but this link talks about 'brown blood disease'
> or nitrite poisoning which can happen with fresh water fish. Do a google
> using "salt + brown blood" for a few hundred thousand more.
> http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1390.htm
> HTH -_- how
> no NEWS is good
>

The reason why I asked is that I do salt water aquariums as well as ponds, and I
know from experience that when setting up a sal****er tank you can't put
anything at all into the tank until the nitrogen cycle is completed, especially
when it is in the nitrite portion of that cycle because of the high toxicity of
nitrite. Thanks for the link.

[Steve \(Dart\)]

Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our birds,
coons and sun while I am at work.
The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the filter is
working at max capability.
Thanks
Steve
" George" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it
will
> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> > How long until it is working at 100%?
> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
> >
> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
corrugated
> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
crammed
> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would have
a
> > pic.
> > thanks
> >
>
> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever
heard of.
>
>

[George]

"Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our birds,
> coons and sun while I am at work.
> The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
> so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the filter is
> working at max capability.
> Thanks
> Steve

Depends on the size of the pond, but 2 gal/min doesn't seem to be very much. If
your pond is very big, it is possible that your filter will go septic, and start
cranking out foul-smelling hydrogen sulphide. Mine pumps about 1,400
gallon/hour for a 1,200 gallon pond (the container is an old jacuzzi swimming
pool filter with about 40 gallons capacity, half-filled with rounded gravel).
It also has a 5 gal capacity pre-filter. What size is your pond?

Here is a link to my web site that shows my pond:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm

You can see the pre-filter in the first picture. The main filter is below the
waterfall (which I have since made major modifications to).

> " George" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long it
> will
>> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
>> > How long until it is working at 100%?
>> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>> >
>> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
> corrugated
>> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
> crammed
>> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would have
> a
>> > pic.
>> > thanks
>> >
>>
>> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever
> heard of.
>>
>>
>
>

[Steve \(Dart\)]

My pond is about1300L or 300 imp gal
that means my pond gets turned over once every 2.5 hrs (give or take)
does that sound reasonable?
by the way, your yellow fish is HUGE !! It looks nice, i particularly like
the color.

Steve

" George" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our birds,
> > coons and sun while I am at work.
> > The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
> > so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the
filter is
> > working at max capability.
> > Thanks
> > Steve
>
> Depends on the size of the pond, but 2 gal/min doesn't seem to be very
much. If
> your pond is very big, it is possible that your filter will go septic, and
start
> cranking out foul-smelling hydrogen sulphide. Mine pumps about 1,400
> gallon/hour for a 1,200 gallon pond (the container is an old jacuzzi
swimming
> pool filter with about 40 gallons capacity, half-filled with rounded
gravel).
> It also has a 5 gal capacity pre-filter. What size is your pond?
>
> Here is a link to my web site that shows my pond:
>
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm
>
> You can see the pre-filter in the first picture. The main filter is below
the
> waterfall (which I have since made major modifications to).
>
> > " George" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long
it
> > will
> >> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> >> > How long until it is working at 100%?
> >> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
> >> >
> >> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
> > corrugated
> >> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
> > crammed
> >> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would
have
> > a
> >> > pic.
> >> > thanks
> >> >
> >>
> >> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever
> > heard of.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Depends a lot on what you have in the pond. Is the water clear? Have you
had the water tested? ~ jan

>On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:28:51 GMT, "Steve \(Dart\)" > wrote:

>My pond is about1300L or 300 imp gal
>that means my pond gets turned over once every 2.5 hrs (give or take)
>does that sound reasonable?
>by the way, your yellow fish is HUGE !! It looks nice, i particularly like
>the color.
>
>Steve
>
>" George" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our birds,
>> > coons and sun while I am at work.
>> > The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
>> > so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the
>filter is
>> > working at max capability.
>> > Thanks
>> > Steve
>>
>> Depends on the size of the pond, but 2 gal/min doesn't seem to be very
>much. If
>> your pond is very big, it is possible that your filter will go septic, and
>start
>> cranking out foul-smelling hydrogen sulphide. Mine pumps about 1,400
>> gallon/hour for a 1,200 gallon pond (the container is an old jacuzzi
>swimming
>> pool filter with about 40 gallons capacity, half-filled with rounded
>gravel).
>> It also has a 5 gal capacity pre-filter. What size is your pond?
>>
>> Here is a link to my web site that shows my pond:
>>
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm
>>
>> You can see the pre-filter in the first picture. The main filter is below
>the
>> waterfall (which I have since made major modifications to).
>>
>> > " George" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long
>it
>> > will
>> >> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
>> >> > How long until it is working at 100%?
>> >> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>> >> >
>> >> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
>> > corrugated
>> >> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
>> > crammed
>> >> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would
>have
>> > a
>> >> > pic.
>> >> > thanks
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever
>> > heard of.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[George]

"Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
...
> My pond is about1300L or 300 imp gal
> that means my pond gets turned over once every 2.5 hrs (give or take)
> does that sound reasonable?

I think that the recommended turnover is at least once per hour. Some say twice
per hour. But if you don't overpopulate the pond, you should be ok. I will add
though, that I think that that rate is somewhat marginal. Watch your water
quality carefully for large changes in a short period of time.

> by the way, your yellow fish is HUGE !! It looks nice, i particularly like
> the color.
>
> Steve

Thanks. It looks yellow in the picture only. The photos don't do it justice. I
have found it very hard to photograph because it is so white that it tends to
over-expose the image. I think the yellow coloring effect is at least in part
due to a combination of sunlight, the water, and the exposure setting on the
camera. When you see it in person, it is very white, with only a hint of
yellow. If I expose it normally, you can't see it's pink eyes because the
whiteness of its skin overpowers the pink. If I underexpose it, it looks
yellow. When it is near the surface, it is very white. When it is near the
bottom, it looks a slightly yellowish. The water is very clear. None of the
other fish display this color change that I've noticed.

The big guy is a little sick right now. We had a huge storm here Tuesday
evening that knocked the power out for nearly two days. I had a hard time
keeping the water aerated. I have solved it now (a lot of good it does after
the fact, but I'm ready for the next time), but the pH dropped rather rapidly
due to CO2 buildup, which I think stunted him a bit. It affected all of the
fish somewhat, but the others have already come around. He is much larger, and
has higher oxygen demands, so it affected him more. He is moving around, but is
a little sluggish, and hasn't properly eaten since the storm. He is also pretty
tempermental, and so my messing with the pond likely has also made him a little
skiddish. He came up to eat this evening, but just spit the food out after
taking it in his mouth. I've managed to get the O2 levels back up and added
sodium bicarbonate, and a little salt to the water. The pH is slowly coming
back up to normal. It dropped one whole point over night tuesday (from 7.8 to
6.8 in less than 8 hours). Hopefully, he will come around in a day or two. I
think he will be ok. He's been sick before, last year, so I know what to do if
he gets worse. I've noticed that albino fish seem to be a little less hardy
than their normal counterparts. By the way, my brother does a lot of
catfishing, and he estimates that it weighs about 6 pounds. The one time I got
him out of the pond (last year when he was sick) his weight (and thrashing)
badly damaged my fish net. I had to buy another one. He wasn't hurt by the
incident (except perhaps his pride). If I have to get him out this time, it is
going to be a real chore, because he is twice the size that he was last year.

> " George" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our birds,
>> > coons and sun while I am at work.
>> > The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
>> > so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the
> filter is
>> > working at max capability.
>> > Thanks
>> > Steve
>>
>> Depends on the size of the pond, but 2 gal/min doesn't seem to be very
> much. If
>> your pond is very big, it is possible that your filter will go septic, and
> start
>> cranking out foul-smelling hydrogen sulphide. Mine pumps about 1,400
>> gallon/hour for a 1,200 gallon pond (the container is an old jacuzzi
> swimming
>> pool filter with about 40 gallons capacity, half-filled with rounded
> gravel).
>> It also has a 5 gal capacity pre-filter. What size is your pond?
>>
>> Here is a link to my web site that shows my pond:
>>
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm
>>
>> You can see the pre-filter in the first picture. The main filter is below
> the
>> waterfall (which I have since made major modifications to).
>>
>> > " George" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how long
> it
>> > will
>> >> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
>> >> > How long until it is working at 100%?
>> >> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
>> >> >
>> >> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
>> > corrugated
>> >> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area. All
>> > crammed
>> >> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would
> have
>> > a
>> >> > pic.
>> >> > thanks
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've ever
>> > heard of.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

Koi wranglers use their nets to guide their fish into another container
(big bag or tub). After watching them, that is what I do with my koi and
goldfish, easier on them and me.... and in your case your net. ;o) Maybe it
would work for you? One word of warning, if using a tub, you do need to get
it covered if catfish are anything like koi and jump. ~ jan

>On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:34:45 -0400, " George" > wrote:

>The big guy is a little sick right now. Hopefully, he will come around in a day or two.
>The one time I got him out of the pond (last year when he was sick) his weight (and thrashing)
>badly damaged my fish net. I had to buy another one. He wasn't hurt by the
>incident (except perhaps his pride). If I have to get him out this time, it is
>going to be a real chore, because he is twice the size that he was last year.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[[email protected]]

I have a 600 gal/hr pump on a 1600 gallon koi pond and my pond is clear. I dont have
any big water falls and this rate is great for my veggie filter setup. better yet my
new pump is 55 watt which sips electricity in small amounts. Ingrid

"Steve \(Dart\)" > wrote:
>My pond is about1300L or 300 imp gal
>that means my pond gets turned over once every 2.5 hrs (give or take)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Steve \(Dart\)]

the water tested fine even before I put in the bio filter in. All the
nitrates and nitrites, KH, PH and ammonia were good.
3 koi 4-6 inch, 1 koi 1 inch, 5 chebunkins 2 inch.


"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Depends a lot on what you have in the pond. Is the water clear? Have you
> had the water tested? ~ jan
>
> >On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:28:51 GMT, "Steve \(Dart\)"
> wrote:
>
> >My pond is about1300L or 300 imp gal
> >that means my pond gets turned over once every 2.5 hrs (give or take)
> >does that sound reasonable?
> >by the way, your yellow fish is HUGE !! It looks nice, i particularly
like
> >the color.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >" George" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Thanks George, I also use them to cover the surface to keep our
birds,
> >> > coons and sun while I am at work.
> >> > The filter feeds from the bottom and pumps about 8L or 2 gal /min
> >> > so far everything is fine but was just wondering how long till the
> >filter is
> >> > working at max capability.
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Steve
> >>
> >> Depends on the size of the pond, but 2 gal/min doesn't seem to be very
> >much. If
> >> your pond is very big, it is possible that your filter will go septic,
and
> >start
> >> cranking out foul-smelling hydrogen sulphide. Mine pumps about 1,400
> >> gallon/hour for a 1,200 gallon pond (the container is an old jacuzzi
> >swimming
> >> pool filter with about 40 gallons capacity, half-filled with rounded
> >gravel).
> >> It also has a 5 gal capacity pre-filter. What size is your pond?
> >>
> >> Here is a link to my web site that shows my pond:
> >>
> >> http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/rockcat/pond/pond.htm
> >>
> >> You can see the pre-filter in the first picture. The main filter is
below
> >the
> >> waterfall (which I have since made major modifications to).
> >>
> >> > " George" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Steve (Dart)" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >I just built a bio filter with veg on top and was wondering how
long
> >it
> >> > will
> >> >> > take for this bios stuff to grow in the filter?
> >> >> > How long until it is working at 100%?
> >> >> > Can the bio freeze solid or should I sink it?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I used pot scrubbies and cut up election signs (Canadian). The
> >> > corrugated
> >> >> > plastic makes good medium with good water flow and surface area.
All
> >> > crammed
> >> >> > into a 5 gal (imp) plastic flower pot. If I had a digicam I would
> >have
> >> > a
> >> >> > pic.
> >> >> > thanks
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I have to say it. That is the best use of an election sign I've
ever
> >> > heard of.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

[George]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> Koi wranglers use their nets to guide their fish into another container
> (big bag or tub). After watching them, that is what I do with my koi and
> goldfish, easier on them and me.... and in your case your net. ;o) Maybe it
> would work for you? One word of warning, if using a tub, you do need to get
> it covered if catfish are anything like koi and jump. ~ jan

Yes, I've seen in a couple of books how they do that. If I need to get the big
guy out, I will try it that way. But any way you look at it, he's going to be a
bear to catch.

>>On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:34:45 -0400, " George" > wrote:
>
>>The big guy is a little sick right now. Hopefully, he will come around in a
>>day or two.
>>The one time I got him out of the pond (last year when he was sick) his weight
>>(and thrashing)
>>badly damaged my fish net. I had to buy another one. He wasn't hurt by the
>>incident (except perhaps his pride). If I have to get him out this time, it
>>is
>>going to be a real chore, because he is twice the size that he was last year.
>
> (Do you know where your water quality is?)

Yes. The day after the storm, when the fish were up gasping, everything
appeared normal except the pH. Of course, it was obvious that they were
oxygen-starved at the time, which is why I was so frantic to get the air pump
going. Once I did, they appeared to be ok. Even the catfish was moving around
and not gulping. I waited a day before I fed them, however (I didn't know how
long the electricity would be off, so I didn't want to foul the water up). On
the morning of the second day, the electricity came back on. I started to
slowly adjust the pH using sodium bicarbonate, and I fed them, but the catfish
refused to eat. I also slowly added a cup of pond salt to the water. He
wouldn't eat yesterday either. All of the other fish are eating like there is
no tomorrow (which is normal). As of this morning the pH is back up to 7.4 from
6.8 (before the storm, the pH was 7.8). The catfish is still not eating. It is
moving around pretty much like it always does, but isn't acting aggressive like
it usually does when it eats, and rarely comes to the top, as it always does
when I'm around, as if it is spooked (if I had been in that pond during that
storm, I might have gotten spooked as well, but I really don't know a lot about
catfish psychology). Finally, I've tried to examine it as closely as I can, and
I can find no lesions, red spots on it. NO parasites, of course. Whatever the
problem is, it is internal (most likely, in my opinion, inflamed gills, or - God
forbid - brain damage from oxygen starvation - I think it is the former rather
than the latter). Any ideas, anyone?

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:01:21 GMT, "Steve \(Dart\)" > wrote:

>the water tested fine even before I put in the bio filter in. All the
>nitrates and nitrites, KH, PH and ammonia were good.
>3 koi 4-6 inch, 1 koi 1 inch, 5 chebunkins 2 inch.

There ya go, the truth is in the tests, (as long as the tests are fresh)
and your water is clear and fish healthy, you must be doing all right.
Right? ;o)

The important thing to remember though, especially with koi, is that they
grow fast and what may work today could go downhill next year or next week.
Why it is nice to oversize a filter, for fish growth. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website