How to clean up "brown water"

[Nathan A. Smith]

Hi,

Just joined the group -- looks like a great resource.

I have built a pond (my very first) that is about 9ft by 7 ft and 30"
deep at places. I have it inhabited by 7 goldfish and 2 koi (all are
under 5" right now). I have a waterfall powered by a 1200 gal/hour pump.
My skimmer is a "Savio compact skimmerfilter". The skimmer (at least
claims) is a skimmer, a biofilter, and UV (optional, of course). After
installing it -- I had to wonder about the biofiltering capabilites as the
matting quickly got clogged up with "stuff", so I added some lava rock int
he compartment that the pump resides.

Now, that I have described my pond -- the problem. I have mostly brown
water. It doesn't look like alge (at least I don't think so). However
adding a clarifier like "crystal lagoon" didn't clear it up. So what is
the best way to clear this up? And is there a way to keep the pond clean?

Also anyone have comments on the savio?

Thanks a lot for the information

Nasa

[Gale Pearce]

Wecome to the group :~)))

The Savio is a good skimmer, but the 2 pads are not enough for good bio
filtration - you need a separate filter for the skimmer to feed to, also I
wouldn't put lava rock in the pump compartment as it will eventually clog up
and starve your pump burning it out. Even though it is called a
"skimmerfilter", it is not really a bio filter. The 2 pads are there to
mechanically filter the water before the pump, keeping your pump running
free of debris. Any container (I use a 45 gal barrel for a pond close to
your size) with filter media in it will work well, then have that feed your
waterfall
Gale :~)
"Nathan A. Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Just joined the group -- looks like a great resource.
>
> I have built a pond (my very first) that is about 9ft by 7 ft and 30"
> deep at places. I have it inhabited by 7 goldfish and 2 koi (all are
> under 5" right now). I have a waterfall powered by a 1200 gal/hour pump.
> My skimmer is a "Savio compact skimmerfilter". The skimmer (at least
> claims) is a skimmer, a biofilter, and UV (optional, of course). After
> installing it -- I had to wonder about the biofiltering capabilites as the
> matting quickly got clogged up with "stuff", so I added some lava rock int
> he compartment that the pump resides.
>
> Now, that I have described my pond -- the problem. I have mostly brown
> water. It doesn't look like alge (at least I don't think so). However
> adding a clarifier like "crystal lagoon" didn't clear it up. So what is
> the best way to clear this up? And is there a way to keep the pond clean?
>
> Also anyone have comments on the savio?
>
> Thanks a lot for the information
>
> Nasa

[Coffee]

Add super activated carbon ( same stuff used in home aquariums) to your
waterfall.

Patty


"Nathan A. Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Just joined the group -- looks like a great resource.
>
> I have built a pond (my very first) that is about 9ft by 7 ft and 30"
> deep at places. I have it inhabited by 7 goldfish and 2 koi (all are
> under 5" right now). I have a waterfall powered by a 1200 gal/hour pump.
> My skimmer is a "Savio compact skimmerfilter". The skimmer (at least
> claims) is a skimmer, a biofilter, and UV (optional, of course). After
> installing it -- I had to wonder about the biofiltering capabilites as the
> matting quickly got clogged up with "stuff", so I added some lava rock int
> he compartment that the pump resides.
>
> Now, that I have described my pond -- the problem. I have mostly brown
> water. It doesn't look like alge (at least I don't think so). However
> adding a clarifier like "crystal lagoon" didn't clear it up. So what is
> the best way to clear this up? And is there a way to keep the pond clean?
>
> Also anyone have comments on the savio?
>
> Thanks a lot for the information
>
> Nasa

[Sue Walsh]

"Nathan A. Smith" > wrote in message
> I have built a pond (my very first) that is about 9ft by 7 ft and 30"
> deep at places. I have it inhabited by 7 goldfish and 2 koi (all are
> under 5" right now). I have a waterfall powered by a 1200 gal/hour pump.
> My skimmer is a "Savio compact skimmerfilter".

> Also anyone have comments on the savio?

I also run a savio skimmer/filter, but with a 3600 gal per hour pump
for about the same size pond you discribed (consider you may need a
larger pump). We find we need to clean the pads every do or two, but
it's easy so we don't mind (might be a problem if we decide to go on
vacation however). I also couldn't get the water clear so I finally
got one UV lite and now the water is crystal clear. We had a problem
at the beginning with frogs getting into the Savio Skimmer (poor
design) and being chewed up by the pump, but my husband put hardware
cloth over the opening and ran a handtowel through the handle so they
can't get in the unit anymore. In the fall when we have leaves we
will have to remove the hardware cloth, but for now it works. I
wouldn't recommend lava rock in the pump chamber as it makes it very
difficut to get to the pump if needed.

you can see my Ripplin Waters Pond at...

htpp://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd

Sue W
Brooksville, FL

[Sue Walsh]

"Nathan A. Smith" > wrote in message >...
>> Also anyone have comments on the savio?

Sorry, I forgot to mention I also run a home make bio filter seperate
from the Savio, which I clean only once last year.

you can see my Ripplin Waters Pond at...

http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd

Sue W
Brooksville, FL

[Nathan A. Smith]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:48:44 -0400, Gale Pearce wrote:

> Wecome to the group :~)))

Thanks!

>
> The Savio is a good skimmer, but the 2 pads are not enough for good bio
> filtration - you need a separate filter for the skimmer to feed to, also I
> wouldn't put lava rock in the pump compartment as it will eventually clog up
> and starve your pump burning it out.

Ok, I am confused. When I bought my pump orignally, I was told that
placing it in a box full of lava rock would be good to "protect it".

So how does lava rock clog up the filter? At worst it would seem that the
rock could put some rock dust in the pond....

Nasa


Even though it is called a
> "skimmerfilter", it is not really a bio filter. The 2 pads are there to
> mechanically filter the water before the pump, keeping your pump running
> free of debris. Any container (I use a 45 gal barrel for a pond close to
> your size) with filter media in it will work well, then have that feed your
> waterfall
> Gale :~)
> "Nathan A. Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just joined the group -- looks like a great resource.
>>
>> I have built a pond (my very first) that is about 9ft by 7 ft and 30"
>> deep at places. I have it inhabited by 7 goldfish and 2 koi (all are
>> under 5" right now). I have a waterfall powered by a 1200 gal/hour pump.
>> My skimmer is a "Savio compact skimmerfilter". The skimmer (at least
>> claims) is a skimmer, a biofilter, and UV (optional, of course). After
>> installing it -- I had to wonder about the biofiltering capabilites as the
>> matting quickly got clogged up with "stuff", so I added some lava rock int
>> he compartment that the pump resides.
>>
>> Now, that I have described my pond -- the problem. I have mostly brown
>> water. It doesn't look like alge (at least I don't think so). However
>> adding a clarifier like "crystal lagoon" didn't clear it up. So what is
>> the best way to clear this up? And is there a way to keep the pond clean?
>>
>> Also anyone have comments on the savio?
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the information
>>
>> Nasa

[Gale Pearce]

also I
> > wouldn't put lava rock in the pump compartment as it will eventually
clog up
> > and starve your pump burning it out.
>
> Ok, I am confused. When I bought my pump orignally, I was told that
> placing it in a box full of lava rock would be good to "protect it".
>
> So how does lava rock clog up the filter? At worst it would seem that the
> rock could put some rock dust in the pond....

Hi Nathan

Your Savio skimmer is protecting your pump with the coarse filter pads and
leaf basket in it - the lava rock isn't needed - BUT if you didn't have the
skimmer and just set the pump into the pond, it would clog up with plant
debris etc and cause your pump to starve for water, run hot and eventually
burning out the bearings. Actually, ( amending my first statement) the lava
rock might not hurt anything as the water is already prefiltered
mechanically by the basket and pads and IMHO it just isn't needed. I am sure
when you bought the pump, they didn't know about the skimmer - they assumed
you were putting the pump directly in the pond
Gale :~)

[Nathan A. Smith]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:03:56 -0400, Gale Pearce wrote:

>
> also I
>> > wouldn't put lava rock in the pump compartment as it will eventually
> clog up
>> > and starve your pump burning it out.
>>
>> Ok, I am confused. When I bought my pump orignally, I was told that
>> placing it in a box full of lava rock would be good to "protect it".
>>
>> So how does lava rock clog up the filter? At worst it would seem that the
>> rock could put some rock dust in the pond....
>
> Hi Nathan
>
> Your Savio skimmer is protecting your pump with the coarse filter pads and
> leaf basket in it - the lava rock isn't needed - BUT if you didn't have the
> skimmer and just set the pump into the pond, it would clog up with plant
> debris etc and cause your pump to starve for water, run hot and eventually
> burning out the bearings. Actually, ( amending my first statement) the lava
> rock might not hurt anything as the water is already prefiltered
> mechanically by the basket and pads and IMHO it just isn't needed. I am sure
> when you bought the pump, they didn't know about the skimmer - they assumed
> you were putting the pump directly in the pond
> Gale :~)

Ok cool,

I think I got all that.

The reason I was looking at placing lava rock into the basin around the
pump is to provide a place for "good bacteria" to live. In other words I
wanted to create a small bio-filter next to the pump. Since lava rock --
or some other material (like the nylon scrubbers) allow for bacteria to
grown on them -- wouldn't this work?

Nasa

[Ka30P]

Nasa wrote
>>The reason I was looking at placing lava rock into the basin around the
pump is to provide a place for "good bacteria" to live. In other words I
wanted to create a small bio-filter next to the pump. Since lava rock --
or some other material (like the nylon scrubbers) allow for bacteria to
grown on them -- wouldn't this work?<<

We did that for several years around our pump.
We cleaned it out once a year and really noticed an improved flow rate on the
waterfall after the yearly cleaning.
Lava rock has lots of little holes in it that tend to get clogged up and are
heavy and hard to clean.
Last year my DH said to heck with this and put the pump back in its slotted
black basket without the lava rock. It was heavy to get out of there and took a
lot of hosing off in a wheel barrel to clean it. So back it went into the pond
last summer without the lava rock.
Early this summer the pump died.
Was it old age? it must have been 7+ years old.
Or was it the fact that it didn't have the lava rock protecting it?
The new pump is back in the pond without lava rock so we'll see next year ;-)

Yes, lava rock will provide biological bug activity going on. Any rock with
water running over it in the pond will do the same. We have rock in our
waterfall, water hyacinths in the upflow stock tank and watercress at the
bottom of our waterfall all doing biological filtering duty along with plants
in the pond.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Ka30P]

PS - You can do the smell test with any filter material to make sure it is
efficient. If it practically knocks you over with 'ew du pond'
you've got dead spots and that's not good.
If it smells like fresh river water (mine own description from a childhood
spend sitting in Deer Crick) then it's working.
We've used black vinyl window screening (bought in 24 foot rolls at Lowe's) and
had it come out of the filter after a year, covered in loverly muck and no dead
spots.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Nathan A. Smith]

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 00:23:19 +0000, Ka30P wrote:

> PS - You can do the smell test with any filter material to make sure it is
> efficient. If it practically knocks you over with 'ew du pond'
> you've got dead spots and that's not good.
> If it smells like fresh river water (mine own description from a childhood
> spend sitting in Deer Crick) then it's working.
> We've used black vinyl window screening (bought in 24 foot rolls at Lowe's) and
> had it come out of the filter after a year, covered in loverly muck and no dead
> spots.
>
>
Cool, That's great to know. Thanks

Nasa


> kathy :-)
> algae primer
> http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>you can see my Ripplin Waters Pond at...
>
>http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd
>
>Sue W

Wow, Sue, very nice. I concur with your white lily being Virginia, have a
picture on my website of mine. That walking iris is impressive along with
your pond. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Gale Pearce]

Hi Nathan - Yes, you have the right idea, and it would work, it just isn't
large enough for the size of pond you have - the denser the media you use,
the more surface area you have for "good bacteria" to live on. The only
problem with this is, the denser it is, the quicker it plugs up and no
longer allows your pond water to pass through it and has to go around it, so
you only have the outside surfaces left for your bacteria to biologically
filter the water. Sponge has the most surface area, but clogs up in a few
days and is hard to rinse - then you have Scotch type scouring pads (which I
use) - more porous and easier to clean and will run all season without
cleaning if the quantity is large enough - then all the rest (screening,
lava rock, pea stone, hair curlers, cut up pop bottles and anything else you
can think of that will give you enough surface area to host enough "good
bacteria" to "eat" the stuff in your pond water that causes algae bloom
and/or cloudy/green water. You can use a smaller container than the 45 gal
drum I use, but will probably have to clean it more often, but just remember
it takes time for a filter to become biologically active, so you can't clean
it too often - the longer it runs between cleanings, the better it works
I also try to run my pond volume through my filter/ hour even though I
keep reading once every 2 to 4 hours is good
Gale :~)

> The reason I was looking at placing lava rock into the basin around the
> pump is to provide a place for "good bacteria" to live. In other words I
> wanted to create a small bio-filter next to the pump. Since lava rock --
> or some other material (like the nylon scrubbers) allow for bacteria to
> grown on them -- wouldn't this work?
>
> Nasa
>

[Nathan A. Smith]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:28:04 -0400, Gale Pearce wrote:

> Hi Nathan - Yes, you have the right idea, and it would work, it just isn't
> large enough for the size of pond you have - the denser the media you use,
> the more surface area you have for "good bacteria" to live on. The only
> problem with this is, the denser it is, the quicker it plugs up and no
> longer allows your pond water to pass through it and has to go around it, so
> you only have the outside surfaces left for your bacteria to biologically
> filter the water. Sponge has the most surface area, but clogs up in a few
> days and is hard to rinse - then you have Scotch type scouring pads (which I
> use) - more porous and easier to clean and will run all season without
> cleaning if the quantity is large enough - then all the rest (screening,
> lava rock, pea stone, hair curlers, cut up pop bottles and anything else you
> can think of that will give you enough surface area to host enough "good
> bacteria" to "eat" the stuff in your pond water that causes algae bloom
> and/or cloudy/green water. You can use a smaller container than the 45 gal
> drum I use, but will probably have to clean it more often, but just remember
> it takes time for a filter to become biologically active, so you can't clean
> it too often - the longer it runs between cleanings, the better it works
> I also try to run my pond volume through my filter/ hour even though I
> keep reading once every 2 to 4 hours is good
> Gale :~)
>
I turn my water over about 1 an hour as well.

As far as the bio material goes -- I am looking at switching out the
lava rock for the nylon scrubbers (I am as I am able to collect the
scrubbers from my local $1 store!).

Nasa

[Sue Walsh]

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote in message >...
>
> >you can see my Ripplin Waters Pond at...
>
> >http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd
> >
> >Sue W
>
> Wow, Sue, very nice. I concur with your white lily being Virginia, have a
> picture on my website of mine. That walking iris is impressive along with
> your pond. ~ jan
>
> See my ponds and filter design:
> http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

Thanks Jan, I've always been impressed with your pond information at
your site, so your compliment is really appreciated. Had a 24 count
of open lily flowers in the pond yesterday, with 6 being the Virginia
Whites. All of them are beautiful, I sure love the lilies. If I had
more room....I'd plant Lotus....

you can see my Ripplin Waters Pond at...

http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd

Sue W

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Thanks Jan, I've always been impressed with your pond information at
>your site, so your compliment is really appreciated.

<blush> ah gosh, shucks, thanks. ;o)

>Had a 24 count of open lily flowers in the pond yesterday, with 6 being the Virginia
>Whites.

That was another thing I was going to ask, what with your amazing multiple
blooms.... How are they planted, how often do you feed, how often do you
divide and how many rhizomes do you leave in a container when you do
divide? (Course I am keeping in mind that your are, if memory serves me, in
FL? which does hurt. ;o) ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Sue Walsh]

~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote in message >...

> >Had a 24 count of open lily flowers in the pond yesterday, with 6 being the Virginia Whites.
>
> That was another thing I was going to ask, what with your amazing multiple
> blooms.... How are they planted, how often do you feed, how often do you
> divide and how many rhizomes do you leave in a container when you do
> divide? (Course I am keeping in mind that your are, if memory serves me, in
> FL? which does hurt. ;o) ~ jan

Jan,
I only divide once in early spring. Lilies are planted in dish pans
with a mixture of 1/2 sand and 1/2 topsoil. When they were repotted
in spring 2 LARGE Lily fert tabs were added to each basket and only
one rhizome was left to grow per pot. I think not over crowding the
pots has something to do with the successful rate of flowers. Make
seperate pots with the remainder or give them away. Fertilizer tabs
should be added every 2-3 months until fall. If you only use the
regular size tabs I would add two every month. Yes, Florida sun does
help. I put handles of plastic covered heavy wire in an X across each
dishpan before planting so I can move them around and lift them out
for repotting. They are heavy but it does work.

Now if I just had some room for Lotus....

Can I grow a nice lotus in a 20 gallon barrel garden? If so Would it
need a pump or just plant it?

You can see my "Ripplin Waters" pond at

http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd

Sue W
Brooksville, FL

[Nedra]

The LOTUS!! My most favorite garden plant.
Of course you can plant a lotus in a 20 gallon container.
Just plant it. I would not plant it too deep however. Now that
I say that I'm wondering about your FL heat and sun?
If you don't doing some research, go to:
http://www.victoria-adventure.org
The gal's name is Babs Ellinwood and is the PCS for Lotses.

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Sue Walsh" > wrote in message
om...
> ~ jan JJsPond.us > wrote in message
>...
>
> > >Had a 24 count of open lily flowers in the pond yesterday, with 6 being
the Virginia Whites.
> >
> > That was another thing I was going to ask, what with your amazing
multiple
> > blooms.... How are they planted, how often do you feed, how often do you
> > divide and how many rhizomes do you leave in a container when you do
> > divide? (Course I am keeping in mind that your are, if memory serves me,
in
> > FL? which does hurt. ;o) ~ jan
>
> Jan,
> I only divide once in early spring. Lilies are planted in dish pans
> with a mixture of 1/2 sand and 1/2 topsoil. When they were repotted
> in spring 2 LARGE Lily fert tabs were added to each basket and only
> one rhizome was left to grow per pot. I think not over crowding the
> pots has something to do with the successful rate of flowers. Make
> seperate pots with the remainder or give them away. Fertilizer tabs
> should be added every 2-3 months until fall. If you only use the
> regular size tabs I would add two every month. Yes, Florida sun does
> help. I put handles of plastic covered heavy wire in an X across each
> dishpan before planting so I can move them around and lift them out
> for repotting. They are heavy but it does work.
>
> Now if I just had some room for Lotus....
>
> Can I grow a nice lotus in a 20 gallon barrel garden? If so Would it
> need a pump or just plant it?
>
> You can see my "Ripplin Waters" pond at
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenjd
>
> Sue W
> Brooksville, FL

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>(Sue Walsh) wrote:

> Yes, Florida sun does help.

You & I pretty much follow the same planting styles and care, so that long
growing season definitely makes a big difference.

>Now if I just had some room for Lotus....
>Can I grow a nice lotus in a 20 gallon barrel garden? If so Would it
>need a pump or just plant it?

Well, as Nedra mentioned, heat & sun. Whenever I've tried one separate from
the pond, they got too over heated. I use a plastic round dish pan/oat pan
(for feeding horses their oats) about 20" diameter for the Momo Botan I
have. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)