Why not UV?

[Newbie Bill]

I have read time and again you dont need UV to have a clear pond. I have
found this difficult on a regular basis. I dont get full out blooms but it
seems I am right on the edge of 'balance'. Some days it seems pretty clear
and others cloudy towards the bottom. My pond is 800 gals - 2 ft deep. The
traditional wisdom seems to be a)plants - my pond is stuffed with them
including some now rapidly multiplying floaters. b)shade - I get pretty much
full sun. That cant be easily changed. I do have very heavy coverage from
lilies and other - probably 70% or better. c) dont overfeed or overload
fish - I dont think I overfeed BUT the crux of the biscuit is I have lotsa
primarily comet type goldfish. I have around 30 most 3-5 inches. Most
ranges I have seen say this is acceptable though many of the 'crystal clear'
posters are very lightly stocked. My pond ,I consider a fish pond with
plants. Many seem to have a watergarden with some fish. All water quality
numbers are perfect except I do sometimes register as high as 10 in
nitrates. I have heard a few argue that a small amount of measurable
nitrates is beneficial to plants.
So bottom line - if I can find a bargain I might add UV. Aside from the
pride of being more or less an 'organic watergardener' I have three
questions. 1) Cost is always a consideration to this poor boy but what are
the other detriments to adding UV. 2)What size? Up to 16W seem to be
available at a reasonable price. This would be my target unless it seems
inadequate. My budget sez I'm not looking for a slam dunk 40W or bigger.
3)Are there negatives if I dont run it all the time to kinda check if I need
it. This would probably be a seperate small pump, slow running, homemade,
more mechanical filter. I can accept starting the season with green water.
I am just not in love with seeing it as regularly as I do. The only
negative I have found is the possibility that suspended algae is actually
growing to consume nitrates and UV might cause them to become excess. If I
had rountinely clear water and that was the case I would consider thinning
the herd.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

[Newbie Bill]

Believe me- money is right up at the top of the list of my priorities. I
dont have any kids to send to school but there is the small mater of food on
the table and a roof over my head. Nonetheless I might be willing/able to
pay the price for more consistent clearer water if it doesnt cost me in
other areas of my pond balance. I mean how can I obsess about my fish if I
cant always see them well:) I spend lotsa time by my pond to do some
figuring.
Bill

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't do UV because
> a) too much work, I'm from the lazy school of ponding ;-)
> b) too much money, three kids to put thru college
> c) I can get clear water without it and don't think crystal clear water is
what
> I want for the critters in my ponds.
> d) too complicated to think about, this may fall under the lazy school of
> ponding or the challenged school of ponding, I'm not sure...
>
> But I say if you can afford them, figure them out and do the work, go for
it!
> ;-)
>
>
>
> kathy :-)
> algae primer
> http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

UV water good. Green, murky water bad. Once you get it
all plumbed and wired, it's a no brainer. Lamps last
about 3 years (use a lamp until it burns out). The larger
the assembly the better the job it can do: consider that,
if you have:

3600 gl water
3600 gl/hour pump rate (1 gl per second)
1 gl exposure (ie, the UV assembly holds one gallon)

Then, at most, on any Sunday, you touch the 3600 gallons
of water 24 times a day, for a grand total of only 24
seconds. With lower pump rates, and smaller UV jobs,
that'll be less. What's the big deal? Only that 24
seconds a day means it can take several days to clear
up the water, that's all. Once it gets clear (you see
the bottom) all that matters is that the UV keeps it
that way. You won't be using the UV for any purpose
but to rid yourself of that stinkin', green water.

Feel free to adjust, correct, fold, spindle, & mutilate.
I only know UV is well worth it if you feed you fishies,
whales (grossed me out), or whatever else lurks in there.

--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD

[matrix j]

I got rid of green water years ago with UV.
The cool thing is that once I clear the water with the UV I can turn it
off and for some reason my pond stays clear until I get VERY heavy
rainfall.

AZ Ponds has the Laguna 25 watt "3000 gal"
at a steal price of $139 shipped.

(Laguna also has the best product support people that can help you out
with ANY questions you may have before or after you buy.....the number
is 1-800-724-2436")

My neighbor was tired of not seeing his fish so he is FINALLY ordering
his next week.
I live in the deeeeeep south with 98/104 degree temps..which by the way
algae adore...my Laguna cleared it up in EXACTLY 4 DAYS!

Belive me it was THE BEST $139 that I have spent on my pond period!
Get it..and forget algae forever!

Also I have never had any problems with Nitrates for some reason.
And no plants at all!

Yea I have been getting away with murder for about 14 years ;-)
Probaly because of all of the natural water changes...
No..I am not a dealer..just a UV believer! ha ha


Btw get the 25..you WILL make your pond bigger in the fututre...
I have done it 3 times already...and at $139 for 3000 gai well,..you do
the math...heh heh

E-mail me if you have any questions on the UV.

[Go Fig]

In article >, matrix j
> wrote:

> I live in the deeeeeep south with 98/104 degree temps..which by the way
> algae adore...my Laguna cleared it up in EXACTLY 4 DAYS!
>
> Belive me it was THE BEST $139 that I have spent on my pond period!
> Get it..and forget algae forever!

I've been preaching this here for almost a decade now, thanx for adding
your testimonial.

jay
Mon Jul 26, 2004

[Barbara2245]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message >...
> I have read time and again you dont need UV to have a clear pond. I have
> found this difficult on a regular basis. I dont get full out blooms but it
> seems I am right on the edge of 'balance'. Some days it seems pretty clear
> and others cloudy towards the bottom. My pond is 800 gals - 2 ft deep. The
> traditional wisdom seems to be a)plants - my pond is stuffed with them
> including some now rapidly multiplying floaters. b)shade - I get pretty much
> full sun. That cant be easily changed. I do have very heavy coverage from
> lilies and other - probably 70% or better. c) dont overfeed or overload
> fish - I dont think I overfeed BUT the crux of the biscuit is I have lotsa
> primarily comet type goldfish. I have around 30 most 3-5 inches. Most
> ranges I have seen say this is acceptable though many of the 'crystal clear'
> posters are very lightly stocked. My pond ,I consider a fish pond with
> plants. Many seem to have a watergarden with some fish. All water quality
> numbers are perfect except I do sometimes register as high as 10 in
> nitrates. I have heard a few argue that a small amount of measurable
> nitrates is beneficial to plants.
> So bottom line - if I can find a bargain I might add UV. Aside from the
> pride of being more or less an 'organic watergardener' I have three
> questions. 1) Cost is always a consideration to this poor boy but what are
> the other detriments to adding UV. 2)What size? Up to 16W seem to be
> available at a reasonable price. This would be my target unless it seems
> inadequate. My budget sez I'm not looking for a slam dunk 40W or bigger.
> 3)Are there negatives if I dont run it all the time to kinda check if I need
> it. This would probably be a seperate small pump, slow running, homemade,
> more mechanical filter. I can accept starting the season with green water.
> I am just not in love with seeing it as regularly as I do. The only
> negative I have found is the possibility that suspended algae is actually
> growing to consume nitrates and UV might cause them to become excess. If I
> had rountinely clear water and that was the case I would consider thinning
> the herd.
> Thanxx
> Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Two years ago I bought a Laguna Powerclear UV which is an out of the
pond filter. My water was so green I could only seen 6-12 inches down.
I now can see the fish and a rock that fell to the bottom. It Cost
$89, 6' of hose, a 2' wide planter to cover it on a board and some
larger clamps. My pond is in full sun and no amount of plants could
clear it. Happy water gardeningis watching my fish.

[Newbie Bill]

Thanks for the encouragement Barbara et al. Can I ask what size you bought
for what size pond?
Thanxx
Bill

"Barbara2245" > wrote in message
om...
> "Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
>...
> > I have read time and again you dont need UV to have a clear pond. I
have
> > found this difficult on a regular basis. I dont get full out blooms
but it
> > seems I am right on the edge of 'balance'. Some days it seems pretty
clear
> > and others cloudy towards the bottom. My pond is 800 gals - 2 ft deep.
The
> > traditional wisdom seems to be a)plants - my pond is stuffed with them
> > including some now rapidly multiplying floaters. b)shade - I get pretty
much
> > full sun. That cant be easily changed. I do have very heavy coverage
from
> > lilies and other - probably 70% or better. c) dont overfeed or overload
> > fish - I dont think I overfeed BUT the crux of the biscuit is I have
lotsa
> > primarily comet type goldfish. I have around 30 most 3-5 inches. Most
> > ranges I have seen say this is acceptable though many of the 'crystal
clear'
> > posters are very lightly stocked. My pond ,I consider a fish pond with
> > plants. Many seem to have a watergarden with some fish. All water
quality
> > numbers are perfect except I do sometimes register as high as 10 in
> > nitrates. I have heard a few argue that a small amount of measurable
> > nitrates is beneficial to plants.
> > So bottom line - if I can find a bargain I might add UV. Aside from
the
> > pride of being more or less an 'organic watergardener' I have three
> > questions. 1) Cost is always a consideration to this poor boy but what
are
> > the other detriments to adding UV. 2)What size? Up to 16W seem to be
> > available at a reasonable price. This would be my target unless it
seems
> > inadequate. My budget sez I'm not looking for a slam dunk 40W or
bigger.
> > 3)Are there negatives if I dont run it all the time to kinda check if I
need
> > it. This would probably be a seperate small pump, slow running,
homemade,
> > more mechanical filter. I can accept starting the season with green
water.
> > I am just not in love with seeing it as regularly as I do. The only
> > negative I have found is the possibility that suspended algae is
actually
> > growing to consume nitrates and UV might cause them to become excess.
If I
> > had rountinely clear water and that was the case I would consider
thinning
> > the herd.
> > Thanxx
> > Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
>
> Two years ago I bought a Laguna Powerclear UV which is an out of the
> pond filter. My water was so green I could only seen 6-12 inches down.
> I now can see the fish and a rock that fell to the bottom. It Cost
> $89, 6' of hose, a 2' wide planter to cover it on a board and some
> larger clamps. My pond is in full sun and no amount of plants could
> clear it. Happy water gardeningis watching my fish.

[Eric and Bobbie]

Eric wrote:
Savio 25 watt uv in the skimmer plug in uv and enjoy fish daily. No
chemicals no barly straw just a few pennies a day for the electric.

[Newbie Bill]

Karen - I have a 1600 gph Laguna pump. The pond has been going since
November. My filter is pretty low end (first try). It is a Laguna out of
pond gravity - basically a commercial storage tote with some bio media and a
coarse filter mat. That empties into a regular Rubbermaid storage tote
which I have stuffed an eggcrate mattress pad in, also gravity. I think this
would work very well except I have put in a couple of pieces of pvc pipe to
provide a path of least resistance so that it doesnt clog up and overflow.
Some of the water must and does go through the padding, just not all of it.
Currently I have about half my flow diverted just circulating the water. I
have had plans to eventually divert this half to a second filter that would
be a better mechanical filter. The bio part of existing system seems to be
working very well. This was part of my considerations which caused me to
think about the uv. Because I do have plenty o fishies I am reluctant to
change much with the filter right now. I would hate to have crystal clear
water to see my poisoned fish. For next season I would be very interested
in knowing how you 'reworked' your Skippy. I am vacillating between that
and a similar design very popular around here but it uses gravel and some
sort of air blower to help clean it out. It does require using the bottom
drain a bit more often to clear the settling portion. The Skippy does sound
very good but I must admit I have some minor reservations about how the
'scotchbrites' stand up over time. The stinky, slimy, attracts who knows
what, aspect described on his site at least causes me to think twice. Of
course people not loving gravel does as well.
Thanxx for the input
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

[Newbie Bill]

Okay - If I was going to do it today I would buy a 16W Laguna for about $100
shipping included. It is very slow flow (350 gph max), which is good for
me( I think). I was already thinking of running it independently on a very
low powered pump, with the possibility that it might even kill some bad pond
critters. Of course how would you really know. Sound alright??
Bill Brister - Austin, Texs


"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:35:20 GMT, "Newbie Bill"
> > wrote:
>
> >I have read time and again you dont need UV to have a clear pond. I have
> >found this difficult on a regular basis.
>
> Ultraviolet light in contact with water kills microscopic life,
> including algae, at different exposure rates. To insure efficiently
> of the UV filter/clarifier one would choose a wattage and water flow
> rate to match the pump you use to pass the water through the UV
> clarifier. to insure the uv light contact with the water is long
> enough to do the job. I have an 1800 gph pump and an 18 watt UV that
> clears up to 2000 gph.
>
> Only down side I know of is if you want to raise fry or tadpoles, the
> UV does kill some of the micriaquatics these small critters would feed
> on.
>
>
> Regards, Hal
> http://members.cox.net/hrclark1/Index.html

[Karen Mullen]

In article >, "Newbie Bill"
> writes:

> For next season I would be very interested
>in knowing how you 'reworked' your Skippy.

my filter is a 110 gallon (not rubbermaid, the cheaper kind) tub with and
upflow like the skippy design. the bottom has lava rock and rock next is blue
furnace filters, then a thick layer of netting from the yardgood store ($.89
yd) and the next layer is the same netting wrapped around 2 bags of quilt
batting from Walmart at $1.99 per bag, then the light crate and then plants.
my pump is a 3600gph with one inflow at 1 1/2 and 3 outflows each 1 1/2 to the
waterfall. this is the 4th year for my pond and the 2nd year with the correct
pump size and it has cleared on its own - no chemicals or treatments. all my
test results are perfect. I have over 50 fish, 3 koi and 5 mules, at least 5
frogs, newts and who knows what else. all are happy and healthy. BTW the
"scotchbrites" stand up extremely well better that the blue furnace filters.
if I could find big enough ones I'd use them instead.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[Gale Pearce]

BTW the "scotchbrites" stand up extremely well better that the blue
furnace filters. If I could find big enough ones I'd use them instead.

Hi Karen - I don't know how far Ashland Ohio is from New Boston Michigan ( ~
25 mi SW of Detroit), but Grassroots Nursery has all kinds of Scotch Brite
type pads in both cut pieces (which I have used for 10 yrs and they're still
good ) and in 4' wide rolls that you can buy by the running yard Phone
#(734) 753 9200 and www.grassrootsnursery.com
Gale :~)

[Newbie Bill]

Karen - Thanxx for the info. Mules?? as in donkey like?
Bill

[Karen]

In article >, "Gale Pearce"
> writes:

>
> BTW the "scotchbrites" stand up extremely well better that the blue
>furnace filters. If I could find big enough ones I'd use them instead.
>
>Hi Karen - I don't know how far Ashland Ohio is from New Boston Michigan ( ~
>25 mi SW of Detroit), but Grassroots Nursery has all kinds of Scotch Brite
>type pads in both cut pieces (which I have used for 10 yrs and they're still
>good ) and in 4' wide rolls that you can buy by the running yard Phone
>#(734) 753 9200 and www.grassrootsnursery.com
>

Thanks Gale,

I'll call them and see if they'll ship, Ashland is midway between Cleveland and
Columbus, not exactly an afternoon jaunt.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[Karen]

In article >, "Newbie Bill"
> writes:

> Mules?? as in donkey like?
>Bill

mules as in cross between koi and goldfish and are sterile.

karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

I'll jump on here with Slothead's endorsement of open cell ( I assume he
means) foam (plastic). Also called reticulated foam. $30 will give a sheet
that you can cut into pads to fit your present filter system.
www.aquaticeco.com

I'm slightly surprised you're having any luck with the eggcrate mattress
foam. Too many tiny holes/square inch, easy to clog. Usually, but probably
not always, that stuff is treated with anti- bacteria/molds and sometimes
fire retardants chemicals. Open cell foam, if seated well in the filter
will sieve out fine particles. ~ jan

I have never had UV and the couple times (in 9 years) that I've had slight
green tinted water, it was a water quality problem, not a filter problem
(i.e., too high pH, too many fish). Green water tells me when I have a
problem, before it becomes are really major problem:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

>On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:50:09 GMT, () wrote:

>Lava rock bad. It collects the goop, and even in the best of setups,
>becomes clogged. It becomes very heavy so attempts to get it out --
>and it will take several -- is back breaking. It's not real lava, by
>the way. All you want in your filter area is media that can take a
>licking and keep on ticking, and is easy to maintain/service. Open-
>cell plastic stuff works best. You can get the stuff in large rolls
>for about $100 (10 yards by 1, or about 100 sq feet by 2 inches) in
>bulk. Cut to size(s). These are "easily" removed for cleaning (hose
>off). This media lasts a very long time (10 years or more, easily).
>
>Pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
>
>KM (30 Jul 2004 05:34:12 GMT):
> >upflow like the skippy design. the bottom has lava rock and rock next
> >furnace filters, then a thick layer of netting from the yardgood store

I wouldn't call it "foam", that's all. It's more like
extruded strands (of plastic). Open-cell only because
it does have cells (sort of) and it is open (not dead-
ends like so-called lava rock). It's the stuff you can
throw over a sawhorse and spray with a hose to clean it
out. The goop mostly peels off, and the finer stuff
makes its way down through the media and out with the
bath water. I do this process three times a year. I've
got the (nearly) whole 100 sq feet in there. And it's
more like 1.5 inches, not 2. The 2-inch stuff is usually
the same as the 1.5, only less dense and more easily comes
apart. The even-firmer stuff is good but I like it in-
between so I can more easily shape it. I've got it so
the water has to flow through the media (300 gl filter
box; total water is < 3000 gl). It's not doing much good
if the water doesn't go through it, and if the water can
find away around, it will.

If I had to do it all over again ... I'd do it different.
Close to, but different from, what I have now. My first
mistake? Having more than one goldfish ! (eight years ago).
You might get lucky with only two, but three did me in.
They breed like rabbits. The koi, in eight years, have
only produced six... seven? Maybe eight. All different,
too. The GF are mostly all the same.


JJ (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:52:20 -0700):
>I'll jump on here with Slothead's endorsement of open cell ( I assume he
>means) foam (plastic). Also called reticulated foam. $30 will give a sheet
>that you can cut into pads to fit your present filter system.
>www.aquaticeco.com

--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD