How to fix leak????

[GoldLexus]

Here is a link of pictures of our pond/waterfall leak
http://public.fotki.com/Nikkiekoala/our_garden/
We attempted to fix it at the beginning of the season. We used great stuff
to stop the waters path.
We didn't have a leak for around 6 weeks. The leak started out slowly. When
we saw the water
getting cloudy with dirt we thought is was due to the construction behind us
(I posted about that last week)
but now it appears to be leaching in from the side of the pond. Over the
last 5 days we started to see
that the ground in front of the pond was damp and has increasingly gotten
worse to where now it is puddling.
Obviously, the leak isn't fix, we just addressed it with a temp. band aid.
Does anyone have a suggestion on
how we can stop the leak?? The Greatstuff worked for a while. If we weren't
on the right track the leak would have
been as bad as it was at the end of the season last year, when we started
the falls this season. Right?
There are descriptions with each picture in the link above. Look at the
pictures with the 'new' star those are the
ones of the leak.
Thanks!!!!

[Go Fig]

Why is the rock above it so wet ?

I would cement in the corner slopping back to the pond, you could even
inlay some rocks into the cement... but despite you very good efforts
to show the problem, its still hard for me to get a feel for the area.

If the falls are off, it shouldn't be leaking then right ?

jay
Mon Aug 02, 2004





In article >, GoldLexus
> wrote:

> Here is a link of pictures of our pond/waterfall leak
> http://public.fotki.com/Nikkiekoala/our_garden/
> We attempted to fix it at the beginning of the season. We used great stuff
> to stop the waters path.
> We didn't have a leak for around 6 weeks. The leak started out slowly. When
> we saw the water
> getting cloudy with dirt we thought is was due to the construction behind us
> (I posted about that last week)
> but now it appears to be leaching in from the side of the pond. Over the
> last 5 days we started to see
> that the ground in front of the pond was damp and has increasingly gotten
> worse to where now it is puddling.
> Obviously, the leak isn't fix, we just addressed it with a temp. band aid.
> Does anyone have a suggestion on
> how we can stop the leak?? The Greatstuff worked for a while. If we weren't
> on the right track the leak would have
> been as bad as it was at the end of the season last year, when we started
> the falls this season. Right?
> There are descriptions with each picture in the link above. Look at the
> pictures with the 'new' star those are the
> ones of the leak.
> Thanks!!!!
>
>

[GoldLexus]

Right, no leaking when the falls are off. Are you referring to the large
rock wall? If so it is wet due to waterfall splash.

"Go Fig" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why is the rock above it so wet ?
>
> I would cement in the corner slopping back to the pond, you could even
> inlay some rocks into the cement... but despite you very good efforts
> to show the problem, its still hard for me to get a feel for the area.
>
> If the falls are off, it shouldn't be leaking then right ?
>
> jay
> Mon Aug 02, 2004
>
>
>
>
>
> In article >, GoldLexus
> > wrote:
>
> > Here is a link of pictures of our pond/waterfall leak
> > http://public.fotki.com/Nikkiekoala/our_garden/
> > We attempted to fix it at the beginning of the season. We used great
stuff
> > to stop the waters path.
> > We didn't have a leak for around 6 weeks. The leak started out slowly.
When
> > we saw the water
> > getting cloudy with dirt we thought is was due to the construction
behind us
> > (I posted about that last week)
> > but now it appears to be leaching in from the side of the pond. Over the
> > last 5 days we started to see
> > that the ground in front of the pond was damp and has increasingly
gotten
> > worse to where now it is puddling.
> > Obviously, the leak isn't fix, we just addressed it with a temp. band
aid.
> > Does anyone have a suggestion on
> > how we can stop the leak?? The Greatstuff worked for a while. If we
weren't
> > on the right track the leak would have
> > been as bad as it was at the end of the season last year, when we
started
> > the falls this season. Right?
> > There are descriptions with each picture in the link above. Look at the
> > pictures with the 'new' star those are the
> > ones of the leak.
> > Thanks!!!!
> >
> >

[how]

"GoldLexus" > wrote in message
...
> Right, no leaking when the falls are off. Are you referring to the large
> rock wall? If so it is wet due to waterfall splash.
>
> "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Why is the rock above it so wet ?
> >
> snips

Hi,
My guess is that the plumbing or perhaps a basin higher in the waterfall is
leaking. I think it could explain the wet rock that Go Fig mentions and also
the puddles. Start at the very top of the falls and eliminate all
possibilities on the way down. One thing you may try is to get another pump
and hose, shut the system down and pump to the top first and see what
happens. Working your way down may show something. You know about how plants
or detritus can divert water on waterfalls right?
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[GoldLexus]

The basin above the area in question could contribute a small amount to the
leak BUT it is not the main problem. That rock is always wet like that when
the falls are running. I can stand on the edge of that rock and the top of
my feet get wet from the splash. The drop at the top is about 1 1/2 feet,
the second drop is about 3 feet , the third drop is about 4 feet (rough
guesstimate) the water lands on a small ledge of cement behind the log
before going into the pond. The water comes down at a pretty good rate so
there is a lot of splash.
We ran the waterfall for a little over 6 weeks before we had serious
leaking. We are losing 5-6 inches of water in a 24 hr. period. If the basin
above was the culprit it would have started leaking when the waterfall was
turned on.

"how" > wrote in message
...
> "GoldLexus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Right, no leaking when the falls are off. Are you referring to the
large
> > rock wall? If so it is wet due to waterfall splash.
> >
> > "Go Fig" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Why is the rock above it so wet ?
> > >
> > snips
>
> Hi,
> My guess is that the plumbing or perhaps a basin higher in the waterfall
is
> leaking. I think it could explain the wet rock that Go Fig mentions and
also
> the puddles. Start at the very top of the falls and eliminate all
> possibilities on the way down. One thing you may try is to get another
pump
> and hose, shut the system down and pump to the top first and see what
> happens. Working your way down may show something. You know about how
plants
> or detritus can divert water on waterfalls right?
> HTH -_- how
> no NEWS is good
>
>

[RichToyBox]

If the leak is where you suspect it to be, then you might try using mortar
or great stuff to build a dam near the end of the timber to prevent water
from flowing over to the area that is leaking. To get the quantity of leak
you are describing, it would take more than splash to let that much water
out of the pond. It looks like the big rock stays wet from splash, but it
also looks as if water is able to run behind the timber to the area in
question.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html
"GoldLexus" > wrote in message
...
> Here is a link of pictures of our pond/waterfall leak
> http://public.fotki.com/Nikkiekoala/our_garden/
> We attempted to fix it at the beginning of the season. We used great stuff
> to stop the waters path.
> We didn't have a leak for around 6 weeks. The leak started out slowly.
When
> we saw the water
> getting cloudy with dirt we thought is was due to the construction behind
us
> (I posted about that last week)
> but now it appears to be leaching in from the side of the pond. Over the
> last 5 days we started to see
> that the ground in front of the pond was damp and has increasingly gotten
> worse to where now it is puddling.
> Obviously, the leak isn't fix, we just addressed it with a temp. band aid.
> Does anyone have a suggestion on
> how we can stop the leak?? The Greatstuff worked for a while. If we
weren't
> on the right track the leak would have
> been as bad as it was at the end of the season last year, when we started
> the falls this season. Right?
> There are descriptions with each picture in the link above. Look at the
> pictures with the 'new' star those are the
> ones of the leak.
> Thanks!!!!
>
>

[GoldLexus]

We have tried using the greatstuff in that area and it seemed to work for 6
weeks. But than the leak came back with a vengence. Either we didn't 'dam'
it up well enough or the greatstuff failed. Being as the greatstuff worked
for 6 weeks makes me think we are on the right track at the source of the
leak. We may need to use some other method. Mortar may be what we have to
do. My husband wants to try the greatstuff again but I am afraid after time
we will have the same problem.

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:fqPPc.239546$Oq2.29870@attbi_s52...
> If the leak is where you suspect it to be, then you might try using mortar
> or great stuff to build a dam near the end of the timber to prevent water
> from flowing over to the area that is leaking. To get the quantity of
leak
> you are describing, it would take more than splash to let that much water
> out of the pond. It looks like the big rock stays wet from splash, but it
> also looks as if water is able to run behind the timber to the area in
> question.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html
> "GoldLexus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Here is a link of pictures of our pond/waterfall leak
> > http://public.fotki.com/Nikkiekoala/our_garden/
> > We attempted to fix it at the beginning of the season. We used great
stuff
> > to stop the waters path.
> > We didn't have a leak for around 6 weeks. The leak started out slowly.
> When
> > we saw the water
> > getting cloudy with dirt we thought is was due to the construction
behind
> us
> > (I posted about that last week)
> > but now it appears to be leaching in from the side of the pond. Over the
> > last 5 days we started to see
> > that the ground in front of the pond was damp and has increasingly
gotten
> > worse to where now it is puddling.
> > Obviously, the leak isn't fix, we just addressed it with a temp. band
aid.
> > Does anyone have a suggestion on
> > how we can stop the leak?? The Greatstuff worked for a while. If we
> weren't
> > on the right track the leak would have
> > been as bad as it was at the end of the season last year, when we
started
> > the falls this season. Right?
> > There are descriptions with each picture in the link above. Look at the
> > pictures with the 'new' star those are the
> > ones of the leak.
> > Thanks!!!!
> >
> >
>
>

[how]

"GoldLexus" > wrote in message
...
> We have tried using the greatstuff in that area and it seemed to work for
6
> weeks. But than the leak came back with a vengence. Either we didn't 'dam'
> it up well enough or the greatstuff failed. Being as the greatstuff worked
> for 6 weeks makes me think we are on the right track at the source of the
> leak.
>snip

Hi,
In your pic 'leakywaterfall001a-vi.jpg' the concrete wall is very wet, this
was pointed out by Gofig. One drop of water a second is approximately 1.66
gallons per day or 11.5 gallons a week and there is a lot more than one drop
per second keeping that wall wet. It is obvious that some water is 'going
over this wall' also. You could find where this splash is originating and
redirect it with stones, etc.
Question - Is there liner under and behind this wall? If not then the leak
may be somewhere in the interface between the concrete wall and the rocks
below it. I am assuming the liner is under the rocks but to eliminate leaks
in this area it would have to be behind the wall also.
Question - Basins on the waterfall have been mentioned, are these actually
small 'ponds' I.E. will hold water with the pump off? If this is the case do
they stay full when the pump is off?
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[GoldLexus]

"how" > wrote in message
...>
Hi,
> In your pic 'leakywaterfall001a-vi.jpg' the concrete wall is very wet,
this
> was pointed out by Gofig. One drop of water a second is approximately 1.66
> gallons per day or 11.5 gallons a week and there is a lot more than one
drop
> per second keeping that wall wet. It is obvious that some water is 'going
> over this wall' also. You could find where this splash is originating and
> redirect it with stones, etc.

It is redirected. Here is an updated link to the pictures (rather than use
the fotki album which shrinks the pictures. I made a quick web page so the
pictures are larger and added some more pictures to help get a better idea
of what is going on) http://mysite.verizon.net/res7js4r/Leakywaterfall.htm
Like I mention on the web page both concrete walls are wet. The water is way
over on the right side of the falls but there is no leak there. The concrete
wall is wet, the ground above it is damp but not saturated and the area
beside the pond bone dry (unlike the lift side which has a major puddle
now).

> Question - Is there liner under and behind this wall? If not then the leak
> may be somewhere in the interface between the concrete wall and the rocks
> below it. I am assuming the liner is under the rocks but to eliminate
leaks
> in this area it would have to be behind the wall also.

The liner is under the concrete wall.

> Question - Basins on the waterfall have been mentioned, are these actually
> small 'ponds' I.E. will hold water with the pump off? If this is the case
do
> they stay full when the pump is off?

The basin is more of a landing. Water collects but quickly washes over the
edge.

Hope the new web page will help see better the problem. We are turning off
the fall soon once we get a temp. pump/filter to keep our fish happy. It is
losing water very fast now, it was about 5-6 inches in 24 hrs. but I think
is getting to be close to 8 inches per 24 hrs. Also need to let it dry out
to repair it. We just want to make sure we find the actually problem and fix
it correctly. Everyone here is so helpful and knowledgable I am sure we will
nail this down.



> "GoldLexus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We have tried using the greatstuff in that area and it seemed to work
for
> 6
> > weeks. But than the leak came back with a vengence. Either we didn't
'dam'
> > it up well enough or the greatstuff failed. Being as the greatstuff
worked
> > for 6 weeks makes me think we are on the right track at the source of
the
> > leak.
> >snip
>

> HTH -_- how
> no NEWS is good
>
>

[how]

"GoldLexus" > wrote in message
...
> snips
> It is redirected. http://mysite.verizon.net/res7js4r/Leakywaterfall.htm
> Like I mention on the web page both concrete walls are wet. The water is
way
> over on the right side of the falls but there is no leak there. The
concrete
> wall is wet, the ground above it is damp but not saturated and the area
> beside the pond bone dry (unlike the left side which has a major puddle
> now).
>
> The basin is more of a landing. Water collects but quickly washes over
the
> edge.
>

Hi,
How many gallons in the pond?
You did not answer whether or not there is liner behind the entire
waterfall. You may know this already but in an ideal setup there is a liner
that would direct any water that gets behind the falls back into the pond.
Also you said that there was liner under the wall, does it rise up behind
the wall or is the wall just on top of it? There may be a couple of leaks in
this setup because the water on the pebbles (pic 4) appears higher than the
ponds water level. This is a strong indication that the fall and or the
plumbing is leaking. Also the area that you foamed before is below this,
correct?
(Two leaks???)
The first thing I would do is with a submersible pump and tubing, pump water
to the top of the fall with the pond shut down. This will eliminate a leak
in the plumbing which is a real possibility. If the leak stops replace
plumbing, if not back to square one.
The 'basin' above the wood edged one is suspicious, you can see moisture
above the concrete wall in pic 2 (from top). This could be water drifting
behind the falls.
If you get to mortaring, use hydraulic cement instead. It is harder to use
because it cures in minutes (make small batches and when all else fails,
read the directions ;-) ) but is waterproof. Can even be used underwater.
WEAR gloves.
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[GoldLexus]

Thanks for your respone, it gives us something to look at.
We can rule out any problem with the plumbing, all plumbing is on the
opposite (right side) side of the pond.
Yes there is water in the pebbles that is where all the water is going that
is leaking.
In picture 2 & 3 (same location different angles) you can see at the bottom
of the concrete wall along the rocks it is wet, that wettness follows all
the way to the grassy area in pic. 4 there I see a puddle and mud, the water
proceeds between to two stones in pic. 4 and puddles up in the pebbles. That
is where it is a absolute wet mess.
As for the liner, it looks like it doesn't not go behind the falls but I can
say for sure. The concrete wall is sitting on the liner along the sides.
We are going to turn off the falls, let everything dry out than try some
'bucket tests' to see if that will help nail our problem down.
I think you are right tho' that the ledge above the log is suspect. I will
let you know what we find out.

"how" > wrote in message
...
> "GoldLexus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > snips
> > It is redirected.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7js4r/Leakywaterfall.htm
> > Like I mention on the web page both concrete walls are wet. The water is
> way
> > over on the right side of the falls but there is no leak there. The
> concrete
> > wall is wet, the ground above it is damp but not saturated and the area
> > beside the pond bone dry (unlike the left side which has a major puddle
> > now).
> >
> > The basin is more of a landing. Water collects but quickly washes over
> the
> > edge.
> >
>
> Hi,
> How many gallons in the pond?
> You did not answer whether or not there is liner behind the entire
> waterfall. You may know this already but in an ideal setup there is a
liner
> that would direct any water that gets behind the falls back into the pond.
> Also you said that there was liner under the wall, does it rise up behind
> the wall or is the wall just on top of it? There may be a couple of leaks
in
> this setup because the water on the pebbles (pic 4) appears higher than
the
> ponds water level. This is a strong indication that the fall and or the
> plumbing is leaking. Also the area that you foamed before is below this,
> correct?
> (Two leaks???)
> The first thing I would do is with a submersible pump and tubing, pump
water
> to the top of the fall with the pond shut down. This will eliminate a leak
> in the plumbing which is a real possibility. If the leak stops replace
> plumbing, if not back to square one.
> The 'basin' above the wood edged one is suspicious, you can see moisture
> above the concrete wall in pic 2 (from top). This could be water drifting
> behind the falls.
> If you get to mortaring, use hydraulic cement instead. It is harder to use
> because it cures in minutes (make small batches and when all else fails,
> read the directions ;-) ) but is waterproof. Can even be used underwater.
> WEAR gloves.
> HTH -_- how
> no NEWS is good
>
>
>