Betta needs help

[Kodiak]

Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
now. Any ideas?
....Kodiak

[Donald K]

Kodiak wrote:

> Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped
> that
> now. Any ideas?
> ...Kodiak

They like some salt, prolly a bit less than you would for heavy duty
goldfish.

What is the tank temp? Low to mid 70 deg F is good.

Is the fish really 1 year old, or have you had him for one year? Bettas
will live from 2 (average) to 5 years (special cases), but they are
usually about 8-12 months old when you buy them...

Is he bored? Is he showing signs of dropsey?

Are you sure your water only has chlorine and not chloramine?

-Donald
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#TUB_TO_TUB

"Kodiak" > wrote:

>Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
>Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
>50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
>I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
>I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
>now. Any ideas?
>...Kodiak
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Kodiak]

Your right, I've only had him a year, but he could be older,
not much older I think since I got him from walmart and
I think they must have a connection straight to a breeder.
I didn't know they have such short lives.
No signs of Dropsy
The dechlorinator is also a chloramine eliminator.
I thought that was the problem so I stopped it.
The temp is mid to high 70's, is that too high?
I thought these were tropical fish?
I will try a .05% salt solution.
(half the recommended for goldies)
I don't think he's bored, I have him next to another guy who's
doing great, once in a while I remove the cardboard between the
two tanks so they can show off/fight, but the lethargic guy is
barely putting up a fight anymore and sits on the bottom mostly.
Thanks...
....Kodiak

"Donald K" > wrote in message
...
> Kodiak wrote:
>
> > Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> > Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> > 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> > I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> > I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped
> > that
> > now. Any ideas?
> > ...Kodiak
>
> They like some salt, prolly a bit less than you would for heavy duty
> goldfish.
>
> What is the tank temp? Low to mid 70 deg F is good.
>
> Is the fish really 1 year old, or have you had him for one year? Bettas
> will live from 2 (average) to 5 years (special cases), but they are
> usually about 8-12 months old when you buy them...
>
> Is he bored? Is he showing signs of dropsey?
>
> Are you sure your water only has chlorine and not chloramine?
>
> -Donald
> --
> "One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
> see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
> words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Donald K]

Kodiak wrote:

> Your right, I've only had him a year, but he could be older,
> not much older I think since I got him from walmart and
> I think they must have a connection straight to a breeder.
> I didn't know they have such short lives.
> No signs of Dropsy
> The dechlorinator is also a chloramine eliminator.
> I thought that was the problem so I stopped it.
> The temp is mid to high 70's, is that too high?
> I thought these were tropical fish?
> I will try a .05% salt solution.
> (half the recommended for goldies)
> I don't think he's bored, I have him next to another guy who's
> doing great, once in a while I remove the cardboard between the
> two tanks so they can show off/fight, but the lethargic guy is
> barely putting up a fight anymore and sits on the bottom mostly.
> Thanks...

Temp is OK.
Really hard to make a diagnosis.
If it were my fish?
I'd do a big water change then BetaMax him as per directions.

(And I'd be getting ready to say good-bye)

I've only had spotty luck when they go into "lie on the bottom" mode.

-D
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[IDzine01]

Hi Kodiak,
If he's in a half gallon bowl, I'm assuming it's not cycled. Bettas
are extremely sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. They require 100%
water changes to be performed before any ammonia becomes present. If
you haven't already, purchase an ammonia test kit. (preferably the
test tube kind like the ones Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells). In a
tank that small you may have to change the water every week or less.
Each betta produces ammonia at a different rate depending on the fish,
the amount and type of food you feed, the tank size, filtration and
water additives. As you know, Bettas are also sensitive to chlorine
and chloramines. If you haven't contacted your local water supplier,
you should be treating for both. While chlorine dissipates after
several hours, chloramines does not. Many water treatment facilities
now treat their water with chloramines. I personally use Kordon's
NovAqua and AmQuel together to keep Chlorine, chloramines and heavy
metals at bay. AmQuel (or AmQuel Plus) also will help neutralize
ammonia if you need to buy yourself an extra day before your water
change.

When you clean out your bowl, take your betta out using a cup (nets
can tare fragile fins) and clean the tank using just hot water making
sure to also clean any gravel, marbles or decor well. This will insure
there is no ammonia in the water.

Honestly, there are MANY things that can cause a betta to become
lethargic. I'll list a couple of possible things you can do to ensure
he stays healthy and you can check them against your current
practices.

1. Really 1 gal is the smallest recommended tank size (2.5 gal or
larger is greatly preferred)
2. The perfect temperature is 78 F. (25.5 C) Although between 75 and
81 is safe as long as it's stable. Anything less then 75 can cause
lethargy and less then 70 can cause illness or even death.
3. Water should be treated for chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals
4. should not be OVER or underfed. Live or frozen foods are preferred
over dry pellet, flake or freeze dried.
5. Regular testing of ammonia, nitrites and pH is essential and
testing of nitrates, kh, and gh is not a bad idea either
6. Tank water must be changed (100%) before any ammonia becomes
present. (Unless tank is cycled, then 20% water changes will do)

If he's not well, it may be best to move him away from any fish he may
be flaring at regularly. (aka another betta) Being in constant
fight-mode can be stressfull for any betta, but especially one that's
a little under the weather.

Well, those are the very basics. I hope something will stand out to
you and your betta will feel better soon.



"Kodiak" > wrote in message >...
> Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
> now. Any ideas?
> ...Kodiak

[Mookie]

You got some excellent advice in this thread.

100% water change.
Betamax
Salt (max 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons)

This should make him healthy again. Betas are usually about a year when
sold because people like them with the big fins, which take about that long
to develop. If you've had him a year, I doubt it is old age.

When he's healthy again cut the salt in half. The salt really keeps them
healthy.

Good luck



"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi Kodiak,
> If he's in a half gallon bowl, I'm assuming it's not cycled. Bettas
> are extremely sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. They require 100%
> water changes to be performed before any ammonia becomes present. If
> you haven't already, purchase an ammonia test kit. (preferably the
> test tube kind like the ones Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells). In a
> tank that small you may have to change the water every week or less.
> Each betta produces ammonia at a different rate depending on the fish,
> the amount and type of food you feed, the tank size, filtration and
> water additives. As you know, Bettas are also sensitive to chlorine
> and chloramines. If you haven't contacted your local water supplier,
> you should be treating for both. While chlorine dissipates after
> several hours, chloramines does not. Many water treatment facilities
> now treat their water with chloramines. I personally use Kordon's
> NovAqua and AmQuel together to keep Chlorine, chloramines and heavy
> metals at bay. AmQuel (or AmQuel Plus) also will help neutralize
> ammonia if you need to buy yourself an extra day before your water
> change.
>
> When you clean out your bowl, take your betta out using a cup (nets
> can tare fragile fins) and clean the tank using just hot water making
> sure to also clean any gravel, marbles or decor well. This will insure
> there is no ammonia in the water.
>
> Honestly, there are MANY things that can cause a betta to become
> lethargic. I'll list a couple of possible things you can do to ensure
> he stays healthy and you can check them against your current
> practices.
>
> 1. Really 1 gal is the smallest recommended tank size (2.5 gal or
> larger is greatly preferred)
> 2. The perfect temperature is 78 F. (25.5 C) Although between 75 and
> 81 is safe as long as it's stable. Anything less then 75 can cause
> lethargy and less then 70 can cause illness or even death.
> 3. Water should be treated for chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals
> 4. should not be OVER or underfed. Live or frozen foods are preferred
> over dry pellet, flake or freeze dried.
> 5. Regular testing of ammonia, nitrites and pH is essential and
> testing of nitrates, kh, and gh is not a bad idea either
> 6. Tank water must be changed (100%) before any ammonia becomes
> present. (Unless tank is cycled, then 20% water changes will do)
>
> If he's not well, it may be best to move him away from any fish he may
> be flaring at regularly. (aka another betta) Being in constant
> fight-mode can be stressfull for any betta, but especially one that's
> a little under the weather.
>
> Well, those are the very basics. I hope something will stand out to
> you and your betta will feel better soon.
>
>
>
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
>...
> > Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> > Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> > 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> > I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> > I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
> > now. Any ideas?
> > ...Kodiak

[Kodiak]

One thing i was doing when doing the 50% water once a week,
was removing the fish and 50% of the water, flushing the gravel
under the tap. Then i rinse and immediately put in aged dechlorinated
temp matched water, and then adding in the 50% old water with the fish
back into the tank.

Do you think I'm killing the biobugs in the tank? I didn't think there were
a significant amount of biobugs in a betta tank, ie: a small tank with no
filtration and no water movement. Am I wrong?
....Kodiak


"Mookie" > wrote in message
news:tpxSc.79361$J06.50479@pd7tw2no...
>
> You got some excellent advice in this thread.
>
> 100% water change.
> Betamax
> Salt (max 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons)
>
> This should make him healthy again. Betas are usually about a year when
> sold because people like them with the big fins, which take about that
long
> to develop. If you've had him a year, I doubt it is old age.
>
> When he's healthy again cut the salt in half. The salt really keeps them
> healthy.
>
> Good luck
>
>
>
> "IDzine01" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi Kodiak,
> > If he's in a half gallon bowl, I'm assuming it's not cycled. Bettas
> > are extremely sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. They require 100%
> > water changes to be performed before any ammonia becomes present. If
> > you haven't already, purchase an ammonia test kit. (preferably the
> > test tube kind like the ones Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells). In a
> > tank that small you may have to change the water every week or less.
> > Each betta produces ammonia at a different rate depending on the fish,
> > the amount and type of food you feed, the tank size, filtration and
> > water additives. As you know, Bettas are also sensitive to chlorine
> > and chloramines. If you haven't contacted your local water supplier,
> > you should be treating for both. While chlorine dissipates after
> > several hours, chloramines does not. Many water treatment facilities
> > now treat their water with chloramines. I personally use Kordon's
> > NovAqua and AmQuel together to keep Chlorine, chloramines and heavy
> > metals at bay. AmQuel (or AmQuel Plus) also will help neutralize
> > ammonia if you need to buy yourself an extra day before your water
> > change.
> >
> > When you clean out your bowl, take your betta out using a cup (nets
> > can tare fragile fins) and clean the tank using just hot water making
> > sure to also clean any gravel, marbles or decor well. This will insure
> > there is no ammonia in the water.
> >
> > Honestly, there are MANY things that can cause a betta to become
> > lethargic. I'll list a couple of possible things you can do to ensure
> > he stays healthy and you can check them against your current
> > practices.
> >
> > 1. Really 1 gal is the smallest recommended tank size (2.5 gal or
> > larger is greatly preferred)
> > 2. The perfect temperature is 78 F. (25.5 C) Although between 75 and
> > 81 is safe as long as it's stable. Anything less then 75 can cause
> > lethargy and less then 70 can cause illness or even death.
> > 3. Water should be treated for chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals
> > 4. should not be OVER or underfed. Live or frozen foods are preferred
> > over dry pellet, flake or freeze dried.
> > 5. Regular testing of ammonia, nitrites and pH is essential and
> > testing of nitrates, kh, and gh is not a bad idea either
> > 6. Tank water must be changed (100%) before any ammonia becomes
> > present. (Unless tank is cycled, then 20% water changes will do)
> >
> > If he's not well, it may be best to move him away from any fish he may
> > be flaring at regularly. (aka another betta) Being in constant
> > fight-mode can be stressfull for any betta, but especially one that's
> > a little under the weather.
> >
> > Well, those are the very basics. I hope something will stand out to
> > you and your betta will feel better soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> > > Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> > > 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> > > I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> > > I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped
that
> > > now. Any ideas?
> > > ...Kodiak
>
>

[Donald K]

Kodiak wrote:

> Do you think I'm killing the biobugs in the tank? I didn't think there
> were a significant amount of biobugs in a betta tank, ie: a small tank
> with no filtration and no water movement. Am I wrong?

The normal paradym with betta tanks is that you are removing the ammonia
etc with water changes rather than relying on an established biofilter.

If you have the test kits, it is probably worth testing ammonia every
day for a week or so to actually determine if you're having a
significant build up.

That being said, I keep bettas in Explorer 2's with biowheels and count
on an established cycle rather than do the 2x or 1x a week 100% water
change.

The www.bettatalk.com site is certainly the net's... um... er... most
enthusiastic betta site...

-Donald
--
Please pardon the spelling, it's late and I'm too lazy to reconfigure my
broken spell checker.

[IDzine01]

I also highly recommend...

http://p198.ezboard.com/faquariumbbsfrm3

These people are amazing.


Donald K > wrote in message >...
> Kodiak wrote:
>
> > Do you think I'm killing the biobugs in the tank? I didn't think there
> > were a significant amount of biobugs in a betta tank, ie: a small tank
> > with no filtration and no water movement. Am I wrong?
>
> The normal paradym with betta tanks is that you are removing the ammonia
> etc with water changes rather than relying on an established biofilter.
>
> If you have the test kits, it is probably worth testing ammonia every
> day for a week or so to actually determine if you're having a
> significant build up.
>
> That being said, I keep bettas in Explorer 2's with biowheels and count
> on an established cycle rather than do the 2x or 1x a week 100% water
> change.
>
> The www.bettatalk.com site is certainly the net's... um... er... most
> enthusiastic betta site...
>
> -Donald

[surewest]

Well the aging of the water works for the chlorine,
but not the chloramines that cities now also add to their
water treatment. I would go back to using the neutralizer.

--


Dr5000

| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>

All I ask is a chance to
.....prove money CAN'T make me happy.
_______________________
"Kodiak" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
> now. Any ideas?
> ...Kodiak
>
>

[Kodiak]

I went back to the neutralizer, added the salt, and change 50% every 2 days
he seems to be doing better, but not out of the woods yet.
....Kodiak

"surewest" > wrote in message
...
> Well the aging of the water works for the chlorine,
> but not the chloramines that cities now also add to their
> water treatment. I would go back to using the neutralizer.
>
> --
>
>
> Dr5000
>
> | ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> | ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
>
> All I ask is a chance to
> ....prove money CAN'T make me happy.
> _______________________
> "Kodiak" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Fish about 1 yr old, has become extremely lethargic.
> > Sits on the bottom. He's in a half gallon bowl. I usually change
> > 50% water once a week, now i'm doing 30% every 2 days.
> > I use dechlorinated (aged 48hours) temperature matched water.
> > I was also adding dechlornator stress relief formula, but i stopped that
> > now. Any ideas?
> > ...Kodiak
> >
> >
>
>