? about water line freezing

[Mike Miller]

I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made. My
mistake was that the in-pond pump and waterfall were both at the same end of
the pond. The other end was a thin, narrow pebble beach. Because of its
thinness, and because the water was only circulating at one end, nutrients
never circulated either, and much organic matter seeped in through the beach
area.

Actually, this was interesting, because the WH at the end w/the waterfall
were always lush and green, whereas the WH near the non-circulating area
were puny and yellow (even w/weekly or so potash additions).

Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have a 1/2"
i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of the pond
(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end. My
question is, will this freeze during the winter?

In the past, the hose intersected the frozen surface of the water, then came
up through it vertically to get to the waterfall. Now it's going to be
immersed laterally in the frozen surface for 12', although still on. Or
maybe it should just go off during the winter, though I love it when it
runs. Opinions?

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

What Zone are you in? ~ jan

>On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:14:49 GMT, "Mike Miller" > wrote:

>I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made. My
>mistake was that the in-pond pump and waterfall were both at the same end of
>the pond. The other end was a thin, narrow pebble beach. Because of its
>thinness, and because the water was only circulating at one end, nutrients
>never circulated either, and much organic matter seeped in through the beach
>area.
>
>Actually, this was interesting, because the WH at the end w/the waterfall
>were always lush and green, whereas the WH near the non-circulating area
>were puny and yellow (even w/weekly or so potash additions).
>
>Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have a 1/2"
>i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of the pond
>(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end. My
>question is, will this freeze during the winter?
>
>In the past, the hose intersected the frozen surface of the water, then came
>up through it vertically to get to the waterfall. Now it's going to be
>immersed laterally in the frozen surface for 12', although still on. Or
>maybe it should just go off during the winter, though I love it when it
>runs. Opinions?
>

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Mike Miller]

Oh, right, Jan, sorry - z5, Chicago.

> What Zone are you in? ~ jan
>
> >On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:14:49 GMT, "Mike Miller" >
wrote:
>
> >I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made. My
> >mistake was that the in-pond pump and waterfall were both at the same end
of
> >the pond. The other end was a thin, narrow pebble beach. Because of its
> >thinness, and because the water was only circulating at one end,
nutrients
> >never circulated either, and much organic matter seeped in through the
beach
> >area.
> >
> >Actually, this was interesting, because the WH at the end w/the waterfall
> >were always lush and green, whereas the WH near the non-circulating area
> >were puny and yellow (even w/weekly or so potash additions).
> >
> >Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have a
1/2"
> >i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of the
pond
> >(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end. My
> >question is, will this freeze during the winter?
> >
> >In the past, the hose intersected the frozen surface of the water, then
came
> >up through it vertically to get to the waterfall. Now it's going to be
> >immersed laterally in the frozen surface for 12', although still on. Or
> >maybe it should just go off during the winter, though I love it when it
> >runs. Opinions?
> >
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Crashj]

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:EQ8Vc.1554$9d6.317@attbi_s54...
> Oh, right, Jan, sorry - z5, Chicago.
>
> > What Zone are you in? ~ jan
> >
> > >On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:14:49 GMT, "Mike Miller" >
> wrote:
> >
> > >I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made.
<>
> > >Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have a
1/2"
> > >i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of the
pond
> > >(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end.
My
> > >question is, will this freeze during the winter?

The waterfall? You betcha.
--
Crashj

[Mike Miller]

> > > >I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made.
> <>
> > > >Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have
a
> 1/2"
> > > >i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of
the
> pond
> > > >(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end.
> My
> > > >question is, will this freeze during the winter?
>
> The waterfall? You betcha.
> --
> Crashj

No, not the waterfall. It's never frozen enough to clog itself up the past
4 winters. But I'm thinking of moving water in a 1/2" tube, now instead of
intersecting with the "frost line" in the water as it has in the past, will
be running along the "frost line" for 12' before raising up to the
waterfall.

The waterfall moves enough to keep itself unfrozen, but will this much hose
stay unfrozen when laid flat along the frozen ice?

[how]

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:6rmVc.6853$9d6.558@attbi_s54...
> snip
> The waterfall moves enough to keep itself unfrozen, but will this much
hose
> stay unfrozen when laid flat along the frozen ice?
>
>
Hi,
If you promise not to post binaries again
(news:cmyUc.34460$TI1.18273@attbi_s52...) I'll leave winter questions alone
as I don't believe in it. In this case, you've answered your own question,
if it keeps moving it won't freeze. More correctly it will have to get much
colder than it has been. Others more familiar with ice may change our minds.
HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

[Mike Miller]

> Hi,
> If you promise not to post binaries again
> (news:cmyUc.34460$TI1.18273@attbi_s52...) I'll leave winter questions
alone
> as I don't believe in it. In this case, you've answered your own question,
> if it keeps moving it won't freeze. More correctly it will have to get
much
> colder than it has been. Others more familiar with ice may change our
minds.
> HTH -_- how
> no NEWS is good

Hey there. What is a binary that I posted? I'm confused about that. But
the water line will freeze eventually, moving or not. I just wanted to know
if anyone had experience with a line situated like this. But you could help
me with the posting binary part...?

[how]

"Mike Miller" > wrote in message
news:llsVc.24218$Fg5.13407@attbi_s53...
>
> > Hi,
> > If you promise not to post binaries again
> > (news:cmyUc.34460$TI1.18273@attbi_s52...)
> > snip

> Hey there. What is a binary that I posted? I'm confused about that. But
> the water line will freeze eventually, moving or not. I just wanted to
know
> if anyone had experience with a line situated like this. But you could
help
> me with the posting binary part...?
>

Hi,
Binaries are pictures and rec.ponds is a text only group. The link in my
reply post goes to the post (see above) you made about splicing liners and
shows a pic of your pond. Nice pic, nice pond, bad post. Post the pic to
alt.binaries.pictures.gardens and post here giving the subject line. There
are other places where you can post pics for free also, google can help.
Here, ice comes from the refrigerator so I'm not really the one to ask. It
can get cold enough to freeze moving water but you said the falls did not
freeze and in that situation I don't think the tube will with the pump on.
Up north I've heard of leaving the water dripping from faucets to keep the
pipes from freezing, no personal experience.
-getting some ice -_- how
no NEWS is good

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:49:06 GMT, "Mike Miller" > wrote:

>I have just finished expanding my pond, correcting a mistake I made.
>Anyway, now the in-pond pump is at the newly deepened end, and I have a 1/2"
>i.d. non-kinking hose coming up from the pump, skirting the edge of the pond
>(hidden under rocks), and leading to the waterfall at the other end.

> My question is, will this freeze during the winter?

I always thought that moving water wouldn't freeze, but supposedly in our
colder zones, moving water in a pipe has been known to freeze.

What you might do to prevent this, put a stock tank heater near the area
where the pump is, this will keep the water warmer and I think it might
make the 12' stretch without cooling down quick enough to freeze solid.

You could also lift the rocks and encase hose in the foam insulation pipe
wraps (look like swimming pool noodles) and put rocks back down. Hopefully
your set up is self draining if there is a power outage? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Crashj]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:58:31 -0700, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:49:06 GMT, "Mike Miller" > wrote:
>
<>
>> My question is, will this freeze during the winter?
>
>I always thought that moving water wouldn't freeze

Only because if it freezes it stops moving.
--
Crashj
--
Crashj