crossbreeding fish species

[johnhuddleston]

Hi there, Does anyone have a URL or any information on crossbreeding
different species of fish, I know carp, goldfish, crucian carp and koi can
be interbred, but what about minnows and other fish types? would you be able
to fertilise a minnows egg with a goldfishes milt? it would be cool to have
a golfish type that didn`t exceed 2 inches etc... silly i know but i`m
interested in this stuff :)

--

[Dances With Ferrets]

I do not believe that what you are proposing is genetically possible.
It would be the equivalent of attempting to breed a toy poodle with a
rabbit.

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth "johnhuddleston" > on Sun, 22
Aug 2004 20:21:57 GMT,

>Hi there, Does anyone have a URL or any information on crossbreeding
>different species of fish, I know carp, goldfish, crucian carp and koi can
>be interbred, but what about minnows and other fish types? would you be able
>to fertilise a minnows egg with a goldfishes milt? it would be cool to have
>a golfish type that didn`t exceed 2 inches etc... silly i know but i`m
>interested in this stuff :)

Don't know if they can crossbreed or not, but isn't the rosy red minnow
already a goldfish type that doesn't exceed 2 inches?


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[Jeff Pratt]

Elizabeth Naime wrote:

> Quoth "johnhuddleston" > on Sun, 22
> Aug 2004 20:21:57 GMT,
>
>>Hi there, Does anyone have a URL or any information on crossbreeding
>>different species of fish, I know carp, goldfish, crucian carp and koi can
>>be interbred, but what about minnows and other fish types? would you be
>>able to fertilise a minnows egg with a goldfishes milt? it would be cool
>>to have a golfish type that didn`t exceed 2 inches etc... silly i know but
>>i`m interested in this stuff :)
>
> Don't know if they can crossbreed or not, but isn't the rosy red minnow
> already a goldfish type that doesn't exceed 2 inches?
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Only know that there is no spork.

Not quite. It's a cyprinid, so it's from the same family as goldfish, but
it IS a separate and distinct species. The Goldfish (Carassius auratus) is
a asian cyprinid, while the rosy red (Pimephales Promelas) is a north
american cyprinid. That being said, rosy reds have to be the most
interesting >$1 fish I have ever kept. They are community compatible,
BUT... when the male is protecting his breeding cave, he will happily
attack just about anything that ventures into his territory.

Jeff

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth Jeff Pratt > on Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:16:36 GMT,

>> Don't know if they can crossbreed or not, but isn't the rosy red minnow
>> already a goldfish type that doesn't exceed 2 inches?
>
>Not quite. It's a cyprinid, so it's from the same family as goldfish, but
>it IS a separate and distinct species.

Right -- sorry, I took "goldfish type" to mean gold/red colored fish
suitable for aquaria. So what I was thinking was, if the OP feels
there's a need for a peaceful coolwater fish that really CAN thrive in
small tanks, rosy reds are an existing fish that fits the bill
perfectly.

As for species, ah well, I've given up trying to figure out fish
crossbreeding, at least for the time being! Apparently koi and goldfish
do interbreed (though probably not directly), although the offspring are
reportedly sterile; and they're distinctly different species.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Seriously, though, what the hobby needs _isn't_ more hybrids.

To date Czech breeders have fooled me twice: first with Neolamprologus
"brevis" which grew too big, and had the shape, color and (bad)
disposition of Neolamprologus calliurus, but lacked calliurus
lyre-tail. I'm pretty sure they were brevis x calliurus hybrids.
Recently they got me with this Synodontis "multimaculatus":
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/name_that_synodontis.htm

A hybrid isn't so much a new breed, as the watering down of two old
ones. The problem with hybrids isn't so much that they may be sterile,
as that you don't know what they'll turn out like - will they become
like dad, like mom, or a combination?

If they're labelled as hybrids, and you know what the parent species
are, it's perhaps not so bad - you may be able to make a guess what
they'll turn out like, but usually one has no clue what the parents
were. I certainly don't for the Synodontis above, for instance,
although I might be able to take a guess.

Not to mention that one usually pay for purebred (atleast I did), and
then few people want mongrels. Making hybrids is easy - and pointless.

To the OP: If you want to create at miniature goldfish, hybridization
is the worst possible way to do it. You're almost guaranteed to end up
with a fish that's as plain-colored as the small parent, and as large
as the goldfish. Instead, the way to do it is to set up breeding
ponds, and breed on the 5% of fish which are smallest after, say, two
years, and repeat that a few times. In 10-15 years time, you'll have a
stable strain of miniature goldfish.

At which time you may realize that they look almost exactly like
leucistic gold barbs (Puntius sachsi), already available today:
http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/barb_gold_001_w180.jpg

[johnhuddleston]

okay, how about a new species then? genetically modified goldfish that
contain real gold :)

http://www.economist.com/diversions/displaystory.cfm?story_id=348179

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Seriously, though, what the hobby needs _isn't_ more hybrids.
>
> To date Czech breeders have fooled me twice: first with Neolamprologus
> "brevis" which grew too big, and had the shape, color and (bad)
> disposition of Neolamprologus calliurus, but lacked calliurus
> lyre-tail. I'm pretty sure they were brevis x calliurus hybrids.
> Recently they got me with this Synodontis "multimaculatus":
> http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/name_that_synodontis.htm
>
> A hybrid isn't so much a new breed, as the watering down of two old
> ones. The problem with hybrids isn't so much that they may be sterile,
> as that you don't know what they'll turn out like - will they become
> like dad, like mom, or a combination?
>
> If they're labelled as hybrids, and you know what the parent species
> are, it's perhaps not so bad - you may be able to make a guess what
> they'll turn out like, but usually one has no clue what the parents
> were. I certainly don't for the Synodontis above, for instance,
> although I might be able to take a guess.
>
> Not to mention that one usually pay for purebred (atleast I did), and
> then few people want mongrels. Making hybrids is easy - and pointless.
>
> To the OP: If you want to create at miniature goldfish, hybridization
> is the worst possible way to do it. You're almost guaranteed to end up
> with a fish that's as plain-colored as the small parent, and as large
> as the goldfish. Instead, the way to do it is to set up breeding
> ponds, and breed on the 5% of fish which are smallest after, say, two
> years, and repeat that a few times. In 10-15 years time, you'll have a
> stable strain of miniature goldfish.
>
> At which time you may realize that they look almost exactly like
> leucistic gold barbs (Puntius sachsi), already available today:
> http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/barb_gold_001_w180.jpg
>
>

[johnhuddleston]

pssst check the date ;)

"johnhuddleston" > wrote in message
...
> okay, how about a new species then? genetically modified goldfish that
> contain real gold :)
>
> http://www.economist.com/diversions/displaystory.cfm?story_id=348179
>
> "Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Seriously, though, what the hobby needs _isn't_ more hybrids.
> >
> > To date Czech breeders have fooled me twice: first with Neolamprologus
> > "brevis" which grew too big, and had the shape, color and (bad)
> > disposition of Neolamprologus calliurus, but lacked calliurus
> > lyre-tail. I'm pretty sure they were brevis x calliurus hybrids.
> > Recently they got me with this Synodontis "multimaculatus":
> > http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/name_that_synodontis.htm
> >
> > A hybrid isn't so much a new breed, as the watering down of two old
> > ones. The problem with hybrids isn't so much that they may be sterile,
> > as that you don't know what they'll turn out like - will they become
> > like dad, like mom, or a combination?
> >
> > If they're labelled as hybrids, and you know what the parent species
> > are, it's perhaps not so bad - you may be able to make a guess what
> > they'll turn out like, but usually one has no clue what the parents
> > were. I certainly don't for the Synodontis above, for instance,
> > although I might be able to take a guess.
> >
> > Not to mention that one usually pay for purebred (atleast I did), and
> > then few people want mongrels. Making hybrids is easy - and pointless.
> >
> > To the OP: If you want to create at miniature goldfish, hybridization
> > is the worst possible way to do it. You're almost guaranteed to end up
> > with a fish that's as plain-colored as the small parent, and as large
> > as the goldfish. Instead, the way to do it is to set up breeding
> > ponds, and breed on the 5% of fish which are smallest after, say, two
> > years, and repeat that a few times. In 10-15 years time, you'll have a
> > stable strain of miniature goldfish.
> >
> > At which time you may realize that they look almost exactly like
> > leucistic gold barbs (Puntius sachsi), already available today:
> > http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/barb_gold_001_w180.jpg
> >
> >
>
>