salt bath questions

[figaro]

I just got a call from a friend with a sick fish. I set up a small 50
gallon water feature for him and his largest sarassa comet is not doing
well. I went through the typical questions but could not make a diagnosis
due to my lack of experience. He was just going to bury it.

This leads me to my question. Could someone give me a generic salt bath
recipe for a generally ill fish. Many people are not willing to go to the
pet store for medications or special aquarium salt for a goldfish especially
when they cost more than the fish did. Sad, but it is reality. I need a
recipe that the average person could make at home.

One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
gallon.

I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.

[Phisherman]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:19:57 GMT, figaro > wrote:

>I just got a call from a friend with a sick fish. I set up a small 50
>gallon water feature for him and his largest sarassa comet is not doing
>well. I went through the typical questions but could not make a diagnosis
>due to my lack of experience. He was just going to bury it.
>
>This leads me to my question. Could someone give me a generic salt bath
>recipe for a generally ill fish. Many people are not willing to go to the
>pet store for medications or special aquarium salt for a goldfish especially
>when they cost more than the fish did. Sad, but it is reality. I need a
>recipe that the average person could make at home.
>
>One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
>water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
>measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
>if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
>gallon.
>
>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.

The strength of the bath and the duration of the bath depends on the
condition of the fish. For a weak bath, use one teaspoon of salt to a
gallon of water and leave the fish in this for 24 hours. If the fish
is still sick use a fresh bath every 24 hours. Use a cup (rather than
a net) to move the sick fish. For a strong bath, use one tablespoon
of salt to a gallon of water for 15 to 30 minutes. You can use 2
tablespoons for a very sick fish. Most fresh water fish can endure a
salt bath. However dwarf catfish should not be given any salt baths.

Do not use table salt. Aquarium salt is inexpensive and available at
most pet stores.

[figaro]

I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
----------------------

> From: Phisherman >
> Organization: AT&T Worldnet
> Reply-To:
> Newsgroups: rec.ponds
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:42:57 GMT
> Subject: Re: salt bath questions
>
> The strength of the bath and the duration of the bath depends on the
> condition of the fish. For a weak bath, use one teaspoon of salt to a
> gallon of water and leave the fish in this for 24 hours. If the fish
> is still sick use a fresh bath every 24 hours. Use a cup (rather than
> a net) to move the sick fish. For a strong bath, use one tablespoon
> of salt to a gallon of water for 15 to 30 minutes. You can use 2
> tablespoons for a very sick fish. Most fresh water fish can endure a
> salt bath. However dwarf catfish should not be given any salt baths.
>
> Do not use table salt. Aquarium salt is inexpensive and available at
> most pet stores.

My friend will not make a special trip to buy aquarium salt for this one
goldfish (he lives an hour away or I would give him some of mine) and I was
hoping to give him something he could use at home to help the fish. What
is it about table salt that will harm the fish?

But thanks for the recipe. I'll keep it in my file for future problems.

[Crashj]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:22 GMT, figaro > wrote:

>>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.

Kosher salt and sea salt are commonly available at the grocery store.
Table salt has chemicals added in small amounts so that it does not
clump. While these are not harmful to us in the quantities used for
seasoning and preservation, fish are immersed in it, so it is a
concern. In addition, Iodide is added since it is deficient in our
soils.

--
Crashj

[Phisherman]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:22 GMT, figaro > wrote:

>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
>----------------------
>
>> From: Phisherman >
>> Organization: AT&T Worldnet
>> Reply-To:
>> Newsgroups: rec.ponds
>> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:42:57 GMT
>> Subject: Re: salt bath questions
>>
>> The strength of the bath and the duration of the bath depends on the
>> condition of the fish. For a weak bath, use one teaspoon of salt to a
>> gallon of water and leave the fish in this for 24 hours. If the fish
>> is still sick use a fresh bath every 24 hours. Use a cup (rather than
>> a net) to move the sick fish. For a strong bath, use one tablespoon
>> of salt to a gallon of water for 15 to 30 minutes. You can use 2
>> tablespoons for a very sick fish. Most fresh water fish can endure a
>> salt bath. However dwarf catfish should not be given any salt baths.
>>
>> Do not use table salt. Aquarium salt is inexpensive and available at
>> most pet stores.
>
>My friend will not make a special trip to buy aquarium salt for this one
>goldfish (he lives an hour away or I would give him some of mine) and I was
>hoping to give him something he could use at home to help the fish. What
>is it about table salt that will harm the fish?
>
>But thanks for the recipe. I'll keep it in my file for future problems.


Additives to make the salt pourable and iodine. I'm not familiar with
kosher salt but if there are no additives, it should be safe. Another
thing, make sure when the fish is transferred to/from the bath make
sure the temperatures of both waters is the same.

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#salt
any kind of salt is fine for a salt dip of less than 5 minutes.
1/2 cup salt with no additives per gallon of tank water (no temp shock)
Ingrid

figaro > wrote:

>I just got a call from a friend with a sick fish. I set up a small 50
>gallon water feature for him and his largest sarassa comet is not doing
>well. I went through the typical questions but could not make a diagnosis
>due to my lack of experience. He was just going to bury it.
>
>This leads me to my question. Could someone give me a generic salt bath
>recipe for a generally ill fish. Many people are not willing to go to the
>pet store for medications or special aquarium salt for a goldfish especially
>when they cost more than the fish did. Sad, but it is reality. I need a
>recipe that the average person could make at home.
>
>One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
>water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
>measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
>if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
>gallon.
>
>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Dave]

Crashj > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:22 GMT, figaro > wrote:
>
> >>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
> >>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
> >>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
>
> Kosher salt and sea salt are commonly available at the grocery store.
> Table salt has chemicals added in small amounts so that it does not
> clump. While these are not harmful to us in the quantities used for
> seasoning and preservation, fish are immersed in it, so it is a
> concern. In addition, Iodide is added since it is deficient in our
> soils.

Kosher salt or sea salt? I have both in my pantry. The kosher salt box
says it includes yellow prussiate of soda as an anti-caking agent. The
sea salt cannister says it contains magnesium carbonate.

[Phisherman]

On 25 Aug 2004 16:00:40 -0700, (Dave) wrote:

>Crashj > wrote in message >...
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:22 GMT, figaro > wrote:
>>
>> >>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>> >>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>> >>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Kosher salt and sea salt are commonly available at the grocery store.
>> Table salt has chemicals added in small amounts so that it does not
>> clump. While these are not harmful to us in the quantities used for
>> seasoning and preservation, fish are immersed in it, so it is a
>> concern. In addition, Iodide is added since it is deficient in our
>> soils.
>
>Kosher salt or sea salt? I have both in my pantry. The kosher salt box
>says it includes yellow prussiate of soda as an anti-caking agent. The
>sea salt cannister says it contains magnesium carbonate.


Neither one is a good choice. Ask your druggist if he would sell you
some pure Sodium Chloride. Don't you have a WalMart, KMart, Target
or pet store? They have aquarium salt.

[figaro]

>>>>> I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>>>>> one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can
>>>>> this
>>>>> be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your
>>>>> help.
>>>
>>> Kosher salt and sea salt are commonly available at the grocery store.
>>> Table salt has chemicals added in small amounts so that it does not
>>> clump. While these are not harmful to us in the quantities used for
>>> seasoning and preservation, fish are immersed in it, so it is a
>>> concern. In addition, Iodide is added since it is deficient in our
>>> soils.
>>
>> Kosher salt or sea salt? I have both in my pantry. The kosher salt box
>> says it includes yellow prussiate of soda as an anti-caking agent. The
>> sea salt cannister says it contains magnesium carbonate.
>
>
> Neither one is a good choice. Ask your druggist if he would sell you
> some pure Sodium Chloride. Don't you have a WalMart, KMart, Target
> or pet store? They have aquarium salt.

Thanks for all the info. I told my friend to use 3 tbs. of whatever salt he
had in one gallon of pond water for 10 minutes. The fish sounded pretty far
gone, could be dropsy or constipation from his description. I'll find out
tonight if the fish has shown any improvement. And I'll buy him some
aquarium salt for his upcoming birthday so he can have a better chance in
the future. I hate to see animals suffer even if they only cost a few
cents. I appreciate the quick responses here. Good group of people.

[Newbie Bill]

You can buy him somethng even nicer if you just buy rock salt:) Around here
its about 3.50 for 25# or 60 cents for a 1# box.
Bill

"figaro" > wrote in message
...
>
> >>>>> I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt
that
> >>>>> one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand.
Can
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for
your
> >>>>> help.
> >>>
> >>> Kosher salt and sea salt are commonly available at the grocery store.
> >>> Table salt has chemicals added in small amounts so that it does not
> >>> clump. While these are not harmful to us in the quantities used for
> >>> seasoning and preservation, fish are immersed in it, so it is a
> >>> concern. In addition, Iodide is added since it is deficient in our
> >>> soils.
> >>
> >> Kosher salt or sea salt? I have both in my pantry. The kosher salt box
> >> says it includes yellow prussiate of soda as an anti-caking agent. The
> >> sea salt cannister says it contains magnesium carbonate.
> >
> >
> > Neither one is a good choice. Ask your druggist if he would sell you
> > some pure Sodium Chloride. Don't you have a WalMart, KMart, Target
> > or pet store? They have aquarium salt.
>
> Thanks for all the info. I told my friend to use 3 tbs. of whatever salt
he
> had in one gallon of pond water for 10 minutes. The fish sounded pretty
far
> gone, could be dropsy or constipation from his description. I'll find out
> tonight if the fish has shown any improvement. And I'll buy him some
> aquarium salt for his upcoming birthday so he can have a better chance in
> the future. I hate to see animals suffer even if they only cost a few
> cents. I appreciate the quick responses here. Good group of people.
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

This is a little late, but you might want to do a little detective work and
tell him to take a water sample to the pet store, most likely the fish got
in this condition due to poor water quality. Was he monitoring his
ammonia/nitrites? pH/KH? Does sound like it. Water changes? ~ jan

>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:19:57 GMT, figaro > wrote:

>I just got a call from a friend with a sick fish. I set up a small 50
>gallon water feature for him and his largest sarassa comet is not doing
>well. I went through the typical questions but could not make a diagnosis
>due to my lack of experience. He was just going to bury it.
>
>This leads me to my question. Could someone give me a generic salt bath
>recipe for a generally ill fish. Many people are not willing to go to the
>pet store for medications or special aquarium salt for a goldfish especially
>when they cost more than the fish did. Sad, but it is reality. I need a
>recipe that the average person could make at home.
>
>One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
>water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
>measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
>if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
>gallon.
>
>I would also appreciate it if someone could address the type of salt that
>one can use. Common table salt is what most people have on hand. Can this
>be used? How about Kosher salt? Other suggestions? Thanks for your help.

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Dave]

figaro > wrote in message >...
> [...]
> One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
> water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
> measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
> if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
> gallon.
>

I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.

[RichToyBox]

Assure good water quality. Test ammonia and nitrites, should be 0. Test
pH, should be between 7 and 9. Do a partial water change and don't forget
the dechlor.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Dave" > wrote in message
om...
> figaro > wrote in message
>...
> > [...]
> > One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
> > water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how
to
> > measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to
understand
> > if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
> > gallon.
> >
>
> I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
> cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
> aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.

[Phisherman]

On 26 Aug 2004 13:30:02 -0700, (Dave) wrote:

>figaro > wrote in message >...
>> [...]
>> One recipe I found mentioned 3 ounces of dissolved salt in one gallon of
>> water for 10 minutes. The average person is not going to understand how to
>> measure 3 ounces of dissolved salt. It would be much easier to understand
>> if the measurements were in teaspoons, tablespoons and cups of salt per
>> gallon.
>>
>
>I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
>cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
>aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.


Two tablespoons in 20 gallons is so weak, but that might be good for
preventative treatment. Two tablespoons in a gallon of water and
bath the fish in this for 15-20 minutes, repeat the treatment every 24
hours. Be careful with any temperature changes. Withhold food and do
a 50% water change to your tank.

[figaro]

I have learned so much from this group. Thanks to all. As far as water
quality, for those of you who just joined this discussion, my friend is not
really a ponder and just wants something relaxing to sit by. He will not go
to the pet store to save a very cheap goldfish. We can't all be
enlightened. So getting him to purchase water testing equipment and
actually using it for a 50 gallon water feature is beyond his capabilities.

However, I tried to account for this when I set up his system. I put a tall
flower pot filled with gravel on a milk crate in the middle of the
rubbermaid tank as a small biological filter. The pump line runs up through
the gravel and shoots up about 6 inches high before falling back into the
pot and draining into the pond. It runs 24/7 and the tank is filled with
plants. It has worked well to keep the water crystal clear and the fish very
healthy.

Some possible reasons for the problem;

A water addition the day before which he assures me was nothing unusual
(possible gill burn?), and the growth of some fry that he had last year and
is unwilling to part with despite his pond being a little overstocked (he
knows the pet store will take them back but can't bring himself to sell
them). I have offered to take some of his excess in my larger pond but he
still refuses because he does not want to break up the family!

So you can see my dilemma. I will get him some salt and print out that
goldfish disease thing that someone provided (I think Jan). I have a
feeling one more ill fish and he will give me the extras but until then, I
can only ask him to try simple things to help the critters.

The bad news, his fish died that same day. The good news, the rest of the
fish appear very healthy and active although a little depressed over the
loss of their biggest friend. Thanks again for the advice and the
compassion.


> From: ~ jan JJsPond.us >
> Organization: Newsfeed.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 100,000+ UNCENSORED
> Newsgroups.
> Newsgroups: rec.ponds
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:24:12 -0700
> Subject: Re: salt bath questions
>
> This is a little late, but you might want to do a little detective work and
> tell him to take a water sample to the pet store, most likely the fish got
> in this condition due to poor water quality. Was he monitoring his
> ammonia/nitrites? pH/KH? Does sound like it. Water changes? ~ jan
>
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:19:57 GMT, figaro > wrote:
>
>> I just got a call from a friend with a sick fish. I set up a small 50
>> gallon water feature for him and his largest sarassa comet is not doing
>> well. I went through the typical questions but could not make a diagnosis
>> due to my lack of experience. He was just going to bury it.
>>

[Dave]

Phisherman > wrote in message >...
> On 26 Aug 2004 13:30:02 -0700, (Dave) wrote:
> >
> >I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
> >cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
> >aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.
>
> Two tablespoons in 20 gallons is so weak, but that might be good for
> preventative treatment. Two tablespoons in a gallon of water and
> bath the fish in this for 15-20 minutes, repeat the treatment every 24
> hours. Be careful with any temperature changes. Withhold food and do
> a 50% water change to your tank.

No improvement after the first bath.

[Dave]

Phisherman > wrote in message >...
> On 26 Aug 2004 13:30:02 -0700, (Dave) wrote:
> >
> >I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
> >cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
> >aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.
>
> Two tablespoons in 20 gallons is so weak, but that might be good for
> preventative treatment. Two tablespoons in a gallon of water and
> bath the fish in this for 15-20 minutes, repeat the treatment every 24
> hours. Be careful with any temperature changes. Withhold food and do
> a 50% water change to your tank.

After two baths the fish seems to possibly be showing signs of
improvement this morning. S/he is not sitting as motionless, is
swimming around a bit more and seems more buoyant, sitting more
lightly upon the bottom. Hasn't eaten in at least four days. This a
seven inch GF (not counting tail). Do I continue baths and how do I
decide when to try feeding? Thanks.

[Phisherman]

On 29 Aug 2004 07:53:35 -0700, (Dave) wrote:

>Phisherman > wrote in message >...
>> On 26 Aug 2004 13:30:02 -0700, (Dave) wrote:
>> >
>> >I have a large unhappy (moping at bottom and not eating) GF in a three
>> >cubic foot (20 gallon?) tank. I've now applied 2 tablespoons of
>> >aquarium salt. What other steps would be appropriate? Thanks.
>>
>> Two tablespoons in 20 gallons is so weak, but that might be good for
>> preventative treatment. Two tablespoons in a gallon of water and
>> bath the fish in this for 15-20 minutes, repeat the treatment every 24
>> hours. Be careful with any temperature changes. Withhold food and do
>> a 50% water change to your tank.
>
>After two baths the fish seems to possibly be showing signs of
>improvement this morning. S/he is not sitting as motionless, is
>swimming around a bit more and seems more buoyant, sitting more
>lightly upon the bottom. Hasn't eaten in at least four days. This a
>seven inch GF (not counting tail). Do I continue baths and how do I
>decide when to try feeding? Thanks.

Keep giving him a salt bath everyday. A goldfish can easily live two
weeks without any food, much longer with cool temperatures. With the
fish still staying near the bottom, continue to withhold food.
Another 50% water change to your tank is a good idea. When the fish
starts actively swimming, offer food in small amounts being careful to
remove uneaten food within a minute or so. It is important to keep
the water clean which can be a chore with goldfish, especially a large
goldfish in a 20 gallon tank. Good luck.