Sick goldfish, advice requested

[Heather M. Fieldhouse]

This has not been a good pond year for me. After five years of having no
problems at all, we had something (probably a raccoon) get in the pond and
clean out half the fish, including my oldest fish (about 10 years) that I'd
had since he was a little feeder fish living in a 3-gallon tank in my dorm
room at college. It happened because one night our waterfall got blocked by
leaves and drained about half the pond water before we found it, and some
predator took the opportunity to just wade into the shallow pond.

So, that was the beginning of the summer. Now this: last week my husband and
I started to notice one of our big old comets changing from orange to white.
At first we thought it was just a normal color change, but then we noticed
that her dorsal fin is also ragged. We netted her (a difficult ordeal) and
looked at her up close, and it appears that she's missing scales and the
white skin underneath is covered with little red dots. It reminded me of
ammonia burns (unfortunately I have experience with that due to a mishap with
some aquarium fish) but I tested the water and there is no detectable
ammonia. We decided to keep an eye on her to see if it got worse or better.

Today we were out feeding the fish and I noticed that other fish are showing
the same symptoms. Many of our fish are white or calico colored, so it
probably went unnoticed for a while. But now I can see that perhaps a third
of the fish in the pond have missing scales, irritated skin, and in some
cases also ragged dorsal fins. Most of the fish still appear fine. Those
fish that do have the symptoms aren't showing any change in their behavior --
their appetite is still fine and I haven't seen any flashing.

We haven't added any new fish or even plants to the pond in years, so there
isn't an obvious avenue for disease to have entered the pond. My hunch is
water quality problems, but we've never had to worry about the pond water
quality before so I don't really know what I should be testing. What should
I test for besides ammonia? pH, maybe?

Thanks,
Heather

[[email protected]]

birds and other wildlife and the air brings in disease.
change some water, add 0.9lb of rock salt per 100 gallons.
if you got PP do 3 treatments with a day in between treatments. or, use formalin
product in the same way.
do some big water changes. toss in a cup of peroxide after each water change.
Ingrid

Heather M. Fieldhouse > wrote:
>We haven't added any new fish or even plants to the pond in years, so there
>isn't an obvious avenue for disease to have entered the pond. My hunch is
>water quality problems, but we've never had to worry about the pond water
>quality before so I don't really know what I should be testing. What should
>I test for besides ammonia? pH, maybe?
>
>Thanks,
>Heather



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[RichToyBox]

Yes. Test pH and KH. It is possible you have experienced a pH crash, and
the fish are swimming in some pretty acid water.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Heather M. Fieldhouse" > wrote in message
bal.net...
> This has not been a good pond year for me. After five years of having no
> problems at all, we had something (probably a raccoon) get in the pond and
> clean out half the fish, including my oldest fish (about 10 years) that
I'd
> had since he was a little feeder fish living in a 3-gallon tank in my dorm
> room at college. It happened because one night our waterfall got blocked
by
> leaves and drained about half the pond water before we found it, and some
> predator took the opportunity to just wade into the shallow pond.
>
> So, that was the beginning of the summer. Now this: last week my husband
and
> I started to notice one of our big old comets changing from orange to
white.
> At first we thought it was just a normal color change, but then we noticed
> that her dorsal fin is also ragged. We netted her (a difficult ordeal)
and
> looked at her up close, and it appears that she's missing scales and the
> white skin underneath is covered with little red dots. It reminded me of
> ammonia burns (unfortunately I have experience with that due to a mishap
with
> some aquarium fish) but I tested the water and there is no detectable
> ammonia. We decided to keep an eye on her to see if it got worse or
better.
>
> Today we were out feeding the fish and I noticed that other fish are
showing
> the same symptoms. Many of our fish are white or calico colored, so it
> probably went unnoticed for a while. But now I can see that perhaps a
third
> of the fish in the pond have missing scales, irritated skin, and in some
> cases also ragged dorsal fins. Most of the fish still appear fine. Those
> fish that do have the symptoms aren't showing any change in their
behavior --
> their appetite is still fine and I haven't seen any flashing.
>
> We haven't added any new fish or even plants to the pond in years, so
there
> isn't an obvious avenue for disease to have entered the pond. My hunch is
> water quality problems, but we've never had to worry about the pond water
> quality before so I don't really know what I should be testing. What
should
> I test for besides ammonia? pH, maybe?
>
> Thanks,
> Heather
>

[Heather M. Fieldhouse]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:44 -0400, RichToyBox wrote
(in message <QbaXc.92438$TI1.89314@attbi_s52>):

> Yes. Test pH and KH. It is possible you have experienced a pH crash, and
> the fish are swimming in some pretty acid water.
>

Thanks. I haven't tested KH yet, but I did test pH earlier and found that it
is 8.0, which I understand is within the acceptable range. Can you tell me
what the KH should be?


Heather

[Heather M. Fieldhouse]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:27:51 -0400, wrote
(in message >):

> birds and other wildlife and the air brings in disease.
> change some water, add 0.9lb of rock salt per 100 gallons.
> if you got PP do 3 treatments with a day in between treatments. or, use
> formalin
> product in the same way.
> do some big water changes. toss in a cup of peroxide after each water
> change.

Thanks for your advice. I hope you'll excuse my ignorance, but what is PP?
I do know what Formalin is and have used it before. I did a partial water
change earlier this evening since I know it's generally a good idea when
anything is amiss. I'll also try the rock salt.


Thanks,
Heather

[RichToyBox]

KH should be a minimum of 40, with 80 being a better low end value, and may
go as high as 300. If your pH is 8, then I don't think is a KH problem.
Low KH is an indication of the impending pH crash with pH going down to 5
quickly which can kill fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Heather M. Fieldhouse" > wrote in message
bal.net...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:44 -0400, RichToyBox wrote
> (in message <QbaXc.92438$TI1.89314@attbi_s52>):
>
> > Yes. Test pH and KH. It is possible you have experienced a pH crash,
and
> > the fish are swimming in some pretty acid water.
> >
>
> Thanks. I haven't tested KH yet, but I did test pH earlier and found that
it
> is 8.0, which I understand is within the acceptable range. Can you tell
me
> what the KH should be?
>
>
> Heather
>

[RichToyBox]

PP is potassium permanganate. Good stuff. Look at koivet.com for dosing
and precautions.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Heather M. Fieldhouse" > wrote in message
bal.net...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:27:51 -0400, wrote
> (in message >):
>
> > birds and other wildlife and the air brings in disease.
> > change some water, add 0.9lb of rock salt per 100 gallons.
> > if you got PP do 3 treatments with a day in between treatments. or, use
> > formalin
> > product in the same way.
> > do some big water changes. toss in a cup of peroxide after each water
> > change.
>
> Thanks for your advice. I hope you'll excuse my ignorance, but what is
PP?
> I do know what Formalin is and have used it before. I did a partial water
> change earlier this evening since I know it's generally a good idea when
> anything is amiss. I'll also try the rock salt.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Heather
>

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#POTASSIUM

Heather M. Fieldhouse > wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:27:51 -0400, wrote
>(in message >):
>
>> birds and other wildlife and the air brings in disease.
>> change some water, add 0.9lb of rock salt per 100 gallons.
>> if you got PP do 3 treatments with a day in between treatments. or, use
>> formalin
>> product in the same way.
>> do some big water changes. toss in a cup of peroxide after each water
>> change.
>
>Thanks for your advice. I hope you'll excuse my ignorance, but what is PP?
>I do know what Formalin is and have used it before. I did a partial water
>change earlier this evening since I know it's generally a good idea when
>anything is amiss. I'll also try the rock salt.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Heather



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

does he still recommend tossing in dry PP? or does this now include making a stock
solution which is safer? Ingrid

"RichToyBox" > wrote:

>PP is potassium permanganate. Good stuff. Look at koivet.com for dosing
>and precautions.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[RichToyBox]

He doesn't address the use of a stock solution. I make appropriate amout of
solution for each treatment using a plastic drink cup with water, measure in
the appropriate amount of PP, and then pour the liquid PP into the pond and
continue the dilution and rinsing of the cup with pond water. Storage of
the dry is easier than storage of preprepared stock solution.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

> wrote in message
...
> does he still recommend tossing in dry PP? or does this now include
making a stock
> solution which is safer? Ingrid
>
> "RichToyBox" > wrote:
>
> >PP is potassium permanganate. Good stuff. Look at koivet.com for dosing
> >and precautions.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

but using dry stuff without diluting has been deadly to so many koi. even diluted in
a plastic cup may not be diluted enough if they swim thru it. I would say dilute
into a 5 gallon container.
then there is the problem of correctly measuring out the right weight each time when
the weight is often a very small quantity. much easier to pour a stock solution out.
much less likely to get it wrong. Ingrid

"RichToyBox" > wrote:

>He doesn't address the use of a stock solution. I make appropriate amout of
>solution for each treatment using a plastic drink cup with water, measure in
>the appropriate amount of PP, and then pour the liquid PP into the pond and
>continue the dilution and rinsing of the cup with pond water. Storage of
>the dry is easier than storage of preprepared stock solution.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.