Re: Thinking tiny

[Richard Reynolds]

hows your
water quality(at least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity)
lighting
water motion in the tank
give details on everything dont say your levels are OK give us the levels.


--
Richard Reynolds




"rtk" > wrote in message ...
> Although I have two ponds, three critter tanks: 30, 75, 120 gallons, a
> 55 gal. cichid and a 38 gal.community tank, I have purchased only a
> little 20 tank for my first marine aquarium. So far, I have a clownfish
> and a yellow-tailed damsel with two anemones, some live rock and a
> shrimp plus an assortment of old dead shells and coral. The mechanics
> for my 20 long are a *skilter* 250 and under gravel filtering,
> pulverized stuff and a couple old sponges I got in Greece ages ago.
>
> My question: I have my browser open to PetSolution.com and I am
> entranced and tempted by everything I see. The mushrooms and corals and
> cucumbers, Oh my! I remind myself I'm supposed to be thinking small.
> So I found this newsgroup and I'm confident some of you will tell me You
> Must Get this! and definitely Don't get that! That's what I want to
> hear. I appreciate all warnings and suggestions.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[Richard Reynolds]

> I asked the pet shop to give me their old water so that I could have
> fish in it right away. Therefore I have not yet made measurements on my
> 6 1/2 day old tank. The lighting, I was told, was suitable for reefs
> and I should have asked exactly what it is. There is water movement
> from the powerhead that's used with the ugf although I don't have a tube
> + venturi attached. There are tons of tiny bubbles from the *skilter*.
> I have added a bit of store bought filtered water to replace the
> little that has been lost by evaporation.
> Ruth Kazez

you NEED to take those anemones back to the LFS, demand a full refund they never should
have sold them to you YET! a 6 day old tank is no place for anemone's

water doesnt cycle, using old water wont help, and the only anemone's that will survive a
cycle are the ones you dont want(ugly and eat $$$ fish including clowns), you need to go
out and buy test kits get ammonia nitrite nitrate and ph and something to test salinity
those you NEED and you need to test your tank water today, and post the results. if you
wanna go UGF you can, but be prepaired it takes work, most dont use them anymore, but they
do work there are just better ways. search for dsb's in this group you will find a few
posts over the last few days with details on how they work. a sump & refugium will allow
you to have a thin sand bed in the tank, and a larger filtering sand bed aside one can be
setup in a 10 gallon cheaply.

eventually you will need to know what kind of lights you have, if you describe the bulb,
here we can help you to identify what it is, and if its enough for a reef tank or not.
also if the skilter is producing bubbles in the tank, its not setup correct, or its still
too new to be usefull, either way its not doing its job yet.

--
Richard Reynolds

[rtk]

Phosphate: less than .50
Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6

I was asked didn't I cycle my freshwater tanks? Only the first, a 15
gallon. I used some of that water to kickstart my 38, then some of that
for the 55. I went on to use a bit of that water for my 120 gallon
turtle+fish tank and for my 75 gallon toads+fish tank. I also have tree
frogs. No water to speak of. I also used my tank water to get my 400
gallon pond started and again some of that water for my 2000 gallon
pond. So in all cases except the first little tank I was able to add
fish from the get go. My new 20 long marine tank was begun with old
water from the pet shop, so it seemed safe enough to put in two hardy
little fish. The anemones I knew might not make it, but in fact they
are looking full and healthy so far. I started with no ugf, just the
combo filter/skimmer, but I was dissatisfied with appearance of so
little ground, therefore I followed the advice of Blasiola's Sal****er
Aquarium Handbook and added the ugf, which I also use in my freshwater
tanks (in addition to other filtering), but with tubes and venturi for
maximum bubbles because I have heavy loads in those tanks.

I very much appreciate the responses to my request for caveats and
suggestions.

Ruth Kazez

[Bill]

Possibly a little troll...?

"rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
> > hows your
> > water quality(at least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity)
> > lighting
> > water motion in the tank
> > give details on everything dont say your levels are OK give us the
levels.
>
> I asked the pet shop to give me their old water so that I could have
> fish in it right away. Therefore I have not yet made measurements on my
> 6 1/2 day old tank. The lighting, I was told, was suitable for reefs
> and I should have asked exactly what it is. There is water movement
> from the powerhead that's used with the ugf although I don't have a tube
> + venturi attached. There are tons of tiny bubbles from the *skilter*.
> I have added a bit of store bought filtered water to replace the
> little that has been lost by evaporation.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[Toyfreek]

If you don't stop and do some research before you go any further you will be
in for a nightmare of a ride trying to get this "system" working correctly.
As said before bring the anemone back and do not shop at that LFS anymore
they aren't to be trusted.
lose the UGF and either go with a proper plenum or a Bare bottom tank with
lots of Live rock (DSB's aren't thought to be effective in small tanks like
a 20)
I am not saying those are the only two ways to do it just the easiest for
research and implementation.
If you can look directly at your lights without expieriencing pain in your
eyes there isn't enough light for anemone.
on my 7gallon nano I have 110W PC's and it is not enough for anemone IME
YMMV,
Toy
"rtk" > wrote in message ...
> Although I have two ponds, three critter tanks: 30, 75, 120 gallons, a
> 55 gal. cichid and a 38 gal.community tank, I have purchased only a
> little 20 tank for my first marine aquarium. So far, I have a clownfish
> and a yellow-tailed damsel with two anemones, some live rock and a
> shrimp plus an assortment of old dead shells and coral. The mechanics
> for my 20 long are a *skilter* 250 and under gravel filtering,
> pulverized stuff and a couple old sponges I got in Greece ages ago.
>
> My question: I have my browser open to PetSolution.com and I am
> entranced and tempted by everything I see. The mushrooms and corals and
> cucumbers, Oh my! I remind myself I'm supposed to be thinking small.
> So I found this newsgroup and I'm confident some of you will tell me You
> Must Get this! and definitely Don't get that! That's what I want to
> hear. I appreciate all warnings and suggestions.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[CapFusion]

"Toyfreek" > wrote in message
...
> If you have any Amonia you shouldn't have animals in there.
> Water does not cycle the tank it is the mature surface areas that breed
the
> bacteria you want in an oxygen rich enviroment like the water column. The
> tanks walls, rock, sand etc. is what Cycles not the water. however by
adding
> the "used" water from the LFS you are kick starting the process slightly
and
> if you bought good live rock you might expierience a small cycle that is
> over in a week or so. The presence of amonia at all in your tank makes me
> thing you have a ways to go yet.
> GL,
> Toy

I do not think he fully understand what cycle tank is. He believe using old
water is cycled tank.


> > Phosphate: less than .50
> > Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
> > PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6


What are the other water parameter?
So far you indicate Phosate, Ammonia and PH. What about Nitrite / Nitrate /
SG etc... The water will spike up and down until it stable. Your basic water
parameter atleast for these A/N/N should read all zero.

CapFusion,..

[rtk]

Bill wrote:
> Possibly a little troll...?
>
> "rtk" > wrote in message ...

Me trolling? I have no idea why you think that. Apparently what I've
done seems so outrageous to you that you assume I'm just trying to stir
up some hostility for the fun of it. I'll take a photo tomorrow and put
it on my website with my other stuff. For my freshwater, here's a page.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/AquariumWebStuff/Aquaria.html

Ruth Kazez

[CapFusion]

"Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
> Possibly a little troll...?

It (him?) seem to be round green shape with one eye and work in plixar
studio (?). Atleast from my viewing point. I think I heard this troll
calling his friend "Dada"(?), I think.

CapFusion,...

[Richard Reynolds]

just in thinking with the PH test kit. you should be using SW capiable test kits for all
your testing, sw ph should be in the 8.3 area. dumping in old water even in FW doesnt
CYCLE the aquarium, it just gets you 40%ish of the way there, ALL freshwater fish can
tolerate some levels of ammonia and nitrite, SW inverts (includes anemones) will not
tolerate it, and the apearance of health today means nothing, it takes a while for these
guys to start to die, then they go fast. your tank also hasnt completely finished and
will spike higher levels of either ammonia or nitrite i cant really know where you are in
the cycle but guessing the first spike hasnt happened, you would have had to be testing
this over the past 6 days to be able to tell me if ammonia has droped or not if it hasnt
then its going up, nitrite wont start to peak until ammonia is almost gone, then it will
peak also, both are significantly harmfull to inverts, including anemones.

I dont know that book but i suggest that you go out and purchase either a current book or
a more reliable one, sand isnt a bad thing, and a 1/2" layer does look good, but UGF's in
SW are prone to old tank syndrom much sooner than in a FW tank. along with many other
problems including an incomplete bio filtration (not removing nitrates) something that can
be acomplished using other filtration methods.

here is a very quick list of books i like, and think you will also, i have also ran and
still run FW tanks, and have been running a few 6 SW tanks for a while now.
there in some kind of order, of preference the first 2 are a tie for first and the others
are a good 2nd palce.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4878
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=8104
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=5032
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=6386


here are some specific ones you probibly will like, but maybee not use after you get used
to keeping SW tanks. in no order
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4738
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4731
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4727
the entire reef notes at
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/sc_view.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=8475 are good



--
Richard Reynolds




"rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
> Phosphate: less than .50
> Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
> PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6
>
> I was asked didn't I cycle my freshwater tanks? Only the first, a 15
> gallon. I used some of that water to kickstart my 38, then some of that
> for the 55. I went on to use a bit of that water for my 120 gallon
> turtle+fish tank and for my 75 gallon toads+fish tank. I also have tree
> frogs. No water to speak of. I also used my tank water to get my 400
> gallon pond started and again some of that water for my 2000 gallon
> pond. So in all cases except the first little tank I was able to add
> fish from the get go. My new 20 long marine tank was begun with old
> water from the pet shop, so it seemed safe enough to put in two hardy
> little fish. The anemones I knew might not make it, but in fact they
> are looking full and healthy so far. I started with no ugf, just the
> combo filter/skimmer, but I was dissatisfied with appearance of so
> little ground, therefore I followed the advice of Blasiola's Sal****er
> Aquarium Handbook and added the ugf, which I also use in my freshwater
> tanks (in addition to other filtering), but with tubes and venturi for
> maximum bubbles because I have heavy loads in those tanks.
>
> I very much appreciate the responses to my request for caveats and
> suggestions.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[CapFusion]

"rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Possibly a little troll...?
> >
> > "rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
> Me trolling? I have no idea why you think that. Apparently what I've
> done seems so outrageous to you that you assume I'm just trying to stir
> up some hostility for the fun of it. I'll take a photo tomorrow and put
> it on my website with my other stuff. For my freshwater, here's a page.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/AquariumWebStuff/Aquaria.html
>
> Ruth Kazez
>
I think he meant the Troll in Pixar or from the Pond "Toad" (or was that a
bullfrog?) that I saw. BTW, VERY nice pond / plant (FW tank) you have there.

CapFusion,...

[Teeb]

Biting my tongue and leaving this one to the guys.. sigh.. *old water*..

Teeb (shaking her head...)


"rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
> > hows your
> > water quality(at least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity)
> > lighting
> > water motion in the tank
> > give details on everything dont say your levels are OK give us the
levels.
>
> I asked the pet shop to give me their old water so that I could have
> fish in it right away. Therefore I have not yet made measurements on my
> 6 1/2 day old tank. The lighting, I was told, was suitable for reefs
> and I should have asked exactly what it is. There is water movement
> from the powerhead that's used with the ugf although I don't have a tube
> + venturi attached. There are tons of tiny bubbles from the *skilter*.
> I have added a bit of store bought filtered water to replace the
> little that has been lost by evaporation.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[Bill]

Hey RTK, I said "possibly a little troll" , if you didn't reply it would
have proved it wouldn't it have. All that you have in a 6 day old tank is
far from ... well I'm sure you'll get posts explaining why you shouldn't.
Good thing your asking question, best of luck.


"rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Possibly a little troll...?
> >
> > "rtk" > wrote in message ...
>
> Me trolling? I have no idea why you think that. Apparently what I've
> done seems so outrageous to you that you assume I'm just trying to stir
> up some hostility for the fun of it. I'll take a photo tomorrow and put
> it on my website with my other stuff. For my freshwater, here's a page.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/AquariumWebStuff/Aquaria.html
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Ruth,

I've read all the replies to you, and everyone is in shock. That's it in a
nutshell. I read your first post, quoted below, and thought "okay.. looks good"
and when I read your follow up that the tank is 6 days old, I was immediately
shocked and cried outloud "Oh my god!"...

Please do listen to the recommendations. Your freshwater knowledge is
practically useless with sal****er tanks. And that is said in a nice way, not
with hostility.

Your skilter will hardly keep up with your 20g, even though you may believe it
will. I had one on my 29g for a long time, and it didn't do the job. Trust me.

Here's what you need *now.*

1) Remove your UGF and replace it with a sand bed. 4" is ideal, but since your
tank is small, 3" is okay. The sand will breed all types of tiny creatures that
will process fish waste and excess food. Within the layers of sand, a chemical
reaction will occur and your nitrates will be de-nitrified, causing Nitrogen
bubbles to form. These will rise when ready and pop at the surface.

2) Buy a lot of LR. 20 to 30lbs of fully cured Live Rock (smells clean and
fresh, not rotten and stinky). Put it in your tank with your new sand.

3) Get a good protein skimmer. The Aqua C Remora will do the job extremely
well. It is rated up to 65g, so your 20g will be wel skimmed.

The three things above will provide your filtration completely. No filter pads
or floss will be necessary.

It will take 3 - 4 weeks to cycle the tank and have it ready for your first
inhabitant. (Your current livestock needs to go back to the fish store. Have
them hold it until your tank is ready to support life.)

Please do re-read this article: http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

#4) Ask your LFS what lights you have, if you can't easily identify them.

#5) Buy test kits for sal****er. .5ppm of Phosphates is incredibly high, and
you'll hav more algae than you can image. .2 in my tank was bad. Your goal is
..003ppm. You want to test Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia, pH, Alkalinity,
Salinity, Temperature, & Phosphates. In a future post, we can post all of the
goal ranges for each, to help you compare your current parameters to the ones
you want to attain for a successful tank.

Keep reading the messages in this newsgroup. We are a very friendly bunch, but
we care very much for these creatures to not only survive, but thrive. So we
can be very intense at times.

Marc


rtk wrote:

> Although I have two ponds, three critter tanks: 30, 75, 120 gallons, a
> 55 gal. cichid and a 38 gal.community tank, I have purchased only a
> little 20 tank for my first marine aquarium. So far, I have a clownfish
> and a yellow-tailed damsel with two anemones, some live rock and a
> shrimp plus an assortment of old dead shells and coral. The mechanics
> for my 20 long are a *skilter* 250 and under gravel filtering,
> pulverized stuff and a couple old sponges I got in Greece ages ago.
>
> My question: I have my browser open to PetSolution.com and I am
> entranced and tempted by everything I see. The mushrooms and corals and
> cucumbers, Oh my! I remind myself I'm supposed to be thinking small.
> So I found this newsgroup and I'm confident some of you will tell me You
> Must Get this! and definitely Don't get that! That's what I want to
> hear. I appreciate all warnings and suggestions.
>
> Ruth Kazez

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Richard Reynolds]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message ...
> Hi Ruth,
>
> I've read all the replies to you, and everyone is in shock.

the king has arived, and once again is correct!!

> Keep reading the messages in this newsgroup. We are a very friendly bunch, but
> we care very much for these creatures to not only survive, but thrive. So we
> can be very intense at times.

intense ok i can handle that :)

> Marc

--
Richard Reynolds

[rtk]

After reading all the notes twice I went to bed totally convinced I
would find the Baghdad of little aquariums this morning, but whew! my
two tiny fish are still there, the clownfish seemingly unknowing that
his tentacled home is indeed (I'm really convinced)temporary and the old
sponge I picked up in Greece ages ago still the hiding spot for the y/t
damsel. After looking at the spectacular altogether professional
jewelled reef photographed by Marc Levenson, I can begin to understand
everybody's dismay at what I have done. *Thinking Tiny* is really what
I'm doing and my methods are clearly not the first steps to anything in
that league. However, I am going to replace the light bulb and put a
firm lid on my temptations to add anything living beyond more rock. The
ugf, I understand, is retro equipment but I suspect it will support such
a barely populated tank as they have in the past. I am going to print
out M.L.'s note and take it to the LFS. I think that perhaps if I make
a clear distinction between a viable home for two hardy fish and an
environment for maintaining a reef garden, I can anticipate fewer
problems (although I haven't actually had any yet, I understand it's too
soon). I hesitate to point to any pics I take today now that I have
seen what kind of league I'm in, but, oh well, I'll have a new page up
and running later today, while my fish are not yet homeless little critters.

Thank you all again (except the troll accuser)

Ruth Kazez

[CapFusion]

"Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
> Awww, I did wish you best of luck.. Weeding out the trolls is an important
> task, you sure I don't get a thank you, you were probably taken more
> serously afterwards.
>
Humm..... Bill maybe you can be our royal "Troll sniffer". Sniff out any
troll that maybe lurking about. Heehe.

CapFusion,...

[rtk]

Believe me, I am acutely aware that I am showing a small zircon to the
owners of dramatic diamonds and rubies. However, it's amazing how much
pleasure and satisfaction such a minimal effort has given me. The
advice in this news group did not fall on deaf ears. I have ordered a
74 watt 50/50 bulb which I am (maybe naively again) supposing to be a
good choice. I spoke to the lfs owner who (naively again,perhaps) I did
trust to make some of my choices. He helped assemble the impressive
reef tank at Penn State University and is not just a clerk at a chain
who would not care if everything went bad. I didn't mention feeding.
Possibly I'm messing up there, too. Last night I shared a bit of our
scallops with them. This morning they were treated to two big flakes.
I gave them a couple crumbs of my turtles' dried shrimp and even let
them have a couple baby guppies. I will confess in future notes whatever
disasters come my way. The tank has been fun, I hope not too temporarily.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/Sal****erStuff/Sal****erTank.html

Ruth Kazez

[Marc Levenson]

Ruth, buying something on impulse is easy to do, and we've all done it in some
form or fashion.

You are actually on the right track, because you didn't get hostile and run off,
but stuck around long enough to get some good advice. Your little tank looks very
nice. It is considered a "nano" to some, and you should have many hours of joy
ahead of you.

When I was 11, I had a 20g Long for my invertebrate tank. Anything that crawled
was exciting to me. That was over 25 years ago, and we didn't have the lighting
available that exists today. 74w really isn't much, but you are using them over a
shallow tank. I agree with Rick, if you can double them, your anemone will
thrive.

As you've had other tanks for some time, you know how you can grow empathy for the
creatures contained within. An anemone can live for 100 years or more in the
wild, and an aquarist can kill it in a month. I've had many aenones in the past 5
years, and never gave that too much thought. My last one was purchased over 13
months ago, and I'm very pleased to say it is still alive today. It likes to
deflate and give off the impression that it will be dead soon, but a few hours
later it perks up to my delight. Here's a page with some various looks it has
provided over the past year:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/bta.html

And let me say this: For a loooooong time, I was very hostile to the idea of
paying $400 for the lights for a $40 anemone. About a little over a year ago, I
decided to see what alternatives there was to NO (normal output fluorescent) bulbs
that didn't break the bank. VHO is very popular, but you have to replace the
bulbs every 6 months, plus they can run rather hot. MH (metal halide) are even
more expensive, but the bulbs are good for a year. Power Compacts fit my needs,
plus the bulbs are good for a year as well, and ran cheaper than VHO.

I've had great success under my PC lighting. You can buy a retro kit (you install
it yourself in your canopy) with 2 ballasts and 4 bulbs for $199 from
hellolights.com Now here's a thought - this is after all, all up to you - you
could by that retro kit, and only use one ballast and two bulbs for a full year,
having the extra ballast as a backup and 2 extra bulbs which you can use for the
following 12 months.

This hobby doesn't have to break the bank, but it likes to try. ;)

Feed very lightly for now. Your anemones are relatively small, but they do need
to eat since they aren't being fed with light at this point. So go to the
supermarket and buy some uncooked shrimp from the deli section. Take a shrimp and
cut it into 6 equal sized pieces, and feed that little piece to each anemone every
third day. If you see food expelled in your tank (slimed chuck of shrimp), you've
overfed. Mine rarely ever expels any food of any kind, because I only feed what
he can consume.

If you overfeed your tank, you may run into serious water quality issues, and that
*will* be detrimental to your tank. Anemones need very low nitrates, so you are
striving to keep those under 10ppm. Thus you need a test kit to determine that
your water is still good. Water changes will dilute those. So if you did a 10g
water change on your 20g, your nitrates will be cut in half.

Hope this helps you some. Keep reading, and soon you'll have a gorgeous nano reef
to show off to your friends (and that will include us!)

Marc


rtk wrote:

> Believe me, I am acutely aware that I am showing a small zircon to the
> owners of dramatic diamonds and rubies. However, it's amazing how much
> pleasure and satisfaction such a minimal effort has given me. The
> advice in this news group did not fall on deaf ears. I have ordered a
> 74 watt 50/50 bulb which I am (maybe naively again) supposing to be a
> good choice. I spoke to the lfs owner who (naively again,perhaps) I did
> trust to make some of my choices. He helped assemble the impressive
> reef tank at Penn State University and is not just a clerk at a chain
> who would not care if everything went bad. I didn't mention feeding.
> Possibly I'm messing up there, too. Last night I shared a bit of our
> scallops with them. This morning they were treated to two big flakes.
> I gave them a couple crumbs of my turtles' dried shrimp and even let
> them have a couple baby guppies. I will confess in future notes whatever
> disasters come my way. The tank has been fun, I hope not too temporarily.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/Sal****erStuff/Sal****erTank.html
>
> Ruth Kazez

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[rtk]

Marc Levenson wrote:
> Ruth, buying something on impulse is easy to do, and we've all done it in some
> form or fashion.

The final decision was abrupt, but I've been coveting sal****er since
having swum in Australia's Great Barrier Reef and around the Big Island
in Hawaii often. I became convinced when I saw several very small long
tanks at quite a few aquariums. Okay, so the movie was an extra push.

>
> You are actually on the right track, because you didn't get hostile and run off,

Nah, these guys don't scare me. I've hung around the triathlon group
and lurked at rec.bike.racing where the going really gets tough. I
haven't seen a single nasty word on ramr, but maybe a little tiny
annoyance that it should be so easy for one person when it's been so
laborious for another. Like I haven't paid my dues?

>
> When I was 11, I had a 20g Long for my invertebrate tank. Anything that crawled
> was exciting to me.

I still feel that way about every bug that comes near my ponds. They
are instanteously my pets as well.

> As you've had other tanks for some time, you know how you can grow empathy for the
> creatures contained within. An anemone can live for 100 years or more in the
> wild, and an aquarist can kill it in a month.

Substitute *turtle* for anemone and the same is true. I take great care
of my turtles, frogs and toads and I'm as attached to them as to my
cichlids and other indoor fish, to my koi and shubunkins.

VHO is very popular, but you have to replace the
> bulbs every 6 months.

VHO is what I ordered. I rotate my bulbs, giving 6 month old ones to
less needy inhabitants, changing the double lights on my tanks so that
one bulb is fresh and the other 6 months + old.


> Feed very lightly for now.

I'm a chronic underfeeder of myself as well as my pets. I tried what
you said, but using a scallop because I'm out of shrimp. Fun watching
them work on it.

I got some new test stuff, strips instead of little tubes. Apparently
wholesome neglect which works so well with plants and children is less
successful with anemones.

Thank you again, Marc, I've been scrutinizing your website. (Brittany
Spears? Really?)

Ruth Kazez

[Marc Levenson]

rtk wrote:

> I got some new test stuff, strips instead of little tubes. Apparently
> wholesome neglect which works so well with plants and children is less
> successful with anemones.
>
> Thank you again, Marc, I've been scrutinizing your website. (Brittany
> Spears? Really?)
>
> Ruth Kazez

Test strips are good at first, but quickly lose accuracy. I found out later that the
reason they say "closed lid tightly" on the packaging is because the oxygen ruins the
contact spots on the strips.

Why? Can you hook me up? Love that girl! What a great smile. <sigh>

Marc, next in line for J-lo btw.....


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Richard Reynolds]

> Test strips are good at first, but quickly lose accuracy. I found out later that the
> reason they say "closed lid tightly" on the packaging is because the oxygen ruins the
> contact spots on the strips.

just a side note, my LFS now has these in individually wraped packing, its kinda cool ive
been comparing them to my normal kits and for the last week or so they have been just as
acurate, a little more $ but a whole lot less time.

too bad a wider range of tests isnt available, i do have ammonia, nitrite/nitrate, ph, and
alk

--
Richard Reynolds

[Toyfreek]

RTK said
>"I have ordered a
>74 watt 50/50 bulb which I am (maybe naively again) >supposing to be a
>good choice. I spoke to the lfs owner who (naively >again,perhaps) I did
>trust to make some of my choices."

I'm sorry I am not trying to be mean....but
The LFS guy is a loser no matter what tank he "helped with" he is still a
schmoe who sold you worthless crap and then let you put animals in the
worthless crappy setup.

Rtk Said Agian
>"even let
>them have a couple baby guppies. "

You really have no Idea of the care of your animals, I beg you please do
some reading fast. it is really, really, really bad to feed freshwater fish
"guppies" to salt water fish. everything I have ever read says that there is
a freshwater enzyme that is not good for sal****er fish and can cause liver
failure.
Grocery store scallops if premium dry pack are ok, the smaller ones are
injected with varius chemicals. if they aren't about the size small pancake
prolly not a good choice.

Rtk Said again
>"I have ordered a
>74 watt 50/50 bulb which I am (maybe naively again) >supposing to be a
>good choice."

A 74W Bulb??? really never seen one of those before. would this be a compact
flouresent bulb? Metal halide? incandescent? I mean please, there is tons
of great lighting info out there, why haven't you even tried to find out
before ordering something that ultimately is going to have to be replaced or
your animals will suffer and ultimately perish.
Try to search lighting at WWW.reefcentral.com or WWW.reefs.org or
www.thereeftank.com heck try to search sal****er + Lighting at
www.google.com bet you could have done better than a 74w bulb of unknown
type.
either you are lazy or you just don't care either way I feel for your
animals.
I am usually not a mean guy, but people like you make me frustrated.
Toy

"rtk" > wrote in message ...
> Believe me, I am acutely aware that I am showing a small zircon to the
> owners of dramatic diamonds and rubies. However, it's amazing how much
> pleasure and satisfaction such a minimal effort has given me. The
> advice in this news group did not fall on deaf ears. I have ordered a
> 74 watt 50/50 bulb which I am (maybe naively again) supposing to be a
> good choice. I spoke to the lfs owner who (naively again,perhaps) I did
> trust to make some of my choices. He helped assemble the impressive
> reef tank at Penn State University and is not just a clerk at a chain
> who would not care if everything went bad. I didn't mention feeding.
> Possibly I'm messing up there, too. Last night I shared a bit of our
> scallops with them. This morning they were treated to two big flakes.
> I gave them a couple crumbs of my turtles' dried shrimp and even let
> them have a couple baby guppies. I will confess in future notes whatever
> disasters come my way. The tank has been fun, I hope not too temporarily.
>
>
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/Sal****erStuff/Sal****erTank.ht
ml
>
> Ruth Kazez
>

[rtk]

I gave a link to the wrong page. I repeat I realize this is just a
peanut. I've since added more rock and a hermit crab. Why do I have
the feeling I am disappointing a couple of you by not bringing news of
total disaster yet? So far, so good. Maybe it's evil and the marine
gods are on the wrong side, but there has been no disaster yet.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/Sal****erStuff/Sal****erTank.html


Ruth Kazez

[L8N DEB]

> Why do I have
>the feeling I am disappointing a couple of you by not bringing news of
>total disaster yet? So far, so good. Maybe it's evil and the marine
>gods are on the wrong side, but there has been no disaster yet.
I've been sitting back seeing how this was going to pan out. Here's my
$.02.
Why do you insist on tempting the Marine gods? Do you think that the
posters who have warned you of an impending disaster are doing so in spite? Has
it dawned on you that alot of us have done many hours of research, have had our
tanks for, in some cases, many years, and in some cases, have had happen the
very disaster you are being warned against?
Please, if in fact you are not a troll, take the advice you've been given.
Take back the animals you are tortureing, do much more research, and ask
questions to experienced reef aquarists. Post on Reef Central. Only then will
you begin to be prepared for reef husbandry.

[CapFusion]

"L8N DEB" > wrote in message
...
> > Why do I have
> >the feeling I am disappointing a couple of you by not bringing news of
> >total disaster yet? So far, so good. Maybe it's evil and the marine
> >gods are on the wrong side, but there has been no disaster yet.
> I've been sitting back seeing how this was going to pan out. Here's
my
> $.02.
> Why do you insist on tempting the Marine gods? Do you think that the
> posters who have warned you of an impending disaster are doing so in
spite? Has
> it dawned on you that alot of us have done many hours of research, have
had our
> tanks for, in some cases, many years, and in some cases, have had happen
the
> very disaster you are being warned against?
> Please, if in fact you are not a troll, take the advice you've been
given.
> Take back the animals you are tortureing, do much more research, and ask
> questions to experienced reef aquarists. Post on Reef Central. Only then
will
> you begin to be prepared for reef husbandry.

I would just give out the opinion and leave it as that. If he is a troll,
then the "Marine Gods" will take care of that. Suggestion / advice are given
as is and anyone hear it or not are up to them to decide what to do with it.
No one can force other upon what they can or can not do. It is his life and
the critter is in his hand. Marine critter does not view as higher value
when compare to human critter which can put you in jail if it die or abused.
So there no point of continuing this fustration. Let continue with other
poster that may take this NG suggestion / advise. And as for those other,
the "Marine God" can take care of them.

Enough said.....

CapFusion,...