kiddie pool still stumps me

[Newbie Bill]

I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or 3
of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the roseys
made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple of
baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small taro.
The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for about
30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but water
temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food but
never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost temporary
fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?

Bill Brister

[grubber]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
> the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or
3
> of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the
roseys
> made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
> water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple of
> baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small
taro.
> The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
> shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for about
> 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
> see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but
water
> temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
> the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
> algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food but
> never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost
temporary
> fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?
>
> Bill Brister
>
>

Did you fill it with pond water or 'hose' water? Also, hotter water will
hold less oxygen, so these lovely fall days in Austin may be the issue. Try
an airstone to add O2.

[Ka30P]

Hi Bill,

With no pump I wonder if they are dying of oxygen deprivation over night when
plants use oxygen instead of producing it. An easy way to check is to get up
before sunrise and see if they are gasping at the surface of the water. I had
this happen in my frog bog when I put fish in. As soon as the sun hit the bog
the fish went back below the surface.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Newbie Bill]

I guess 76 seems so cool to me I had not seriously considered this. I
have resisted equiptment since I will have to run an extension cord out the
window untill I am move confident of my 'experiment' and also sink the pool.
Tell me more about the pond water. I tried this initially with only
slightly better results, but the mosquitos seemed to be magnetized to it.
Currently I only have 'dechlored' water. The plants seem to be doing
relatively well even in the shade. I havent monitored for water temperature
swings which might be contributing since it is only 70 gallons above ground.
The fish seem partially bloated by the time I find them in the morning,
which I thought meant they were dying early in the evening. So I thought I
would see them searching for oxygen, but they rarely come to the surface.
Any further ideas would be much appreciated. I may just have to run the
cord and refill with pond water to narrow down my problem. I have seen
several small still ponds around the area just loaded with anacharis and
lilies with several fantails or orandas. I am missing something - perhaps
it is the aged water. Kathy - did you aerate to solve your problem? Do
you think an airstone will move the water enough to deter the mosquitos. I
may just be striving for too much from too little. At least one of the
still ponds I saw was using dunks. I'm just so dad blasted cheap:( Heck
thats half of my motivation - to keep from having to compost overgrowing
plants. Thanxx

Bill Brister

"grubber" > wrote in message
...
> "Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant
keep
> > the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2
or
> 3
> > of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the
> roseys
> > made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen.
The
> > water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple
of
> > baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small
> taro.
> > The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump,
its
> > shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> > unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for
about
> > 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> > treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can
barely
> > see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but
> water
> > temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses
at
> > the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> > variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
> > algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food
but
> > never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost
> temporary
> > fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?
> >
> > Bill Brister
> >
> >
>
> Did you fill it with pond water or 'hose' water? Also, hotter water will
> hold less oxygen, so these lovely fall days in Austin may be the issue.
Try
> an airstone to add O2.
>
>

[Ka30P]

Bill wrote >>So I thought I
would see them searching for oxygen, but they rarely come to the surface.<<

You've got to observe the pond before sunrise.
It really is dramatic, having seen it myself, that as soon as the sun rises the
fish disappear from gasping at the surface. No, I didn't aerate the pond, I
removed all the fish and used Mosquito Bits (the granular version of Mosquito
Dunks) to take care of the mosquito problem. I used Bits because of the all the
nooks and crannies in this pond and I wanted to get the stuff everywhere in the
pond. A Bit would work fine for a kiddy pond. I decided to move the fish as I
wanted frogs to breed in the pond and I didn't want the fish to be eating up
the eggs. A bonus was all the dragon and damselflies that breed out of that
pond and finding other interesting insects.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[grubber]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
...
> I guess 76 seems so cool to me I had not seriously considered this. I
> have resisted equiptment since I will have to run an extension cord out
the
> window untill I am move confident of my 'experiment' and also sink the
pool.
> Tell me more about the pond water.


As far as the temps, I was basically saying that it's a lot warmer now and
what might have worked in the spring when nights were cooler might not work
now.

On the pond water vs tap water, in aquariums it generally takes a few weeks
to cycle so starting a new tank with 'used' water is recommended. My wife
used to regularly clean the tank by putting the fish in bowls while she
replaced the water and rinsed the gravel in a colander. Fish never lasted
very long, but now that it is never cleaned, the fish are happy and growing
old.

[Newbie Bill]

Thanxx for the answers. I suspect that somewhere in your and Kathy's
advice is a very good start. I have just returned with a pump and 5" 'air
stone', and 4 more roseys. I think I will just try that first, and then the
pond water - mostly because I am lazy and the water has aged 10-14 days now.
I would be curious to know (probably unknowable) if her past failures were
because she was putting the fish in a bowl (stress?) or because she was
killing the cycling bacteria by washing the gravel, resulting in poisoning,
ecspecially if she doesnt have an independent bio filter. Coincidentally we
have just added 2 fish to our new aquarium and I am wrestling with the right
thing to do. Frequent water changes seem to be mandatory. But, our water
has ammonia and nitrites.If I bind them before adding to tank, I am
concerned my benefecial bacteria will starve and die out, after a month of
no fish cycling.
Thanxx again
Bill Brister

"grubber" > wrote in message
...
> "Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I guess 76 seems so cool to me I had not seriously considered this. I
> > have resisted equiptment since I will have to run an extension cord out
> the
> > window untill I am move confident of my 'experiment' and also sink the
> pool.
> > Tell me more about the pond water.
>
>
> As far as the temps, I was basically saying that it's a lot warmer now and
> what might have worked in the spring when nights were cooler might not
work
> now.
>
> On the pond water vs tap water, in aquariums it generally takes a few
weeks
> to cycle so starting a new tank with 'used' water is recommended. My wife
> used to regularly clean the tank by putting the fish in bowls while she
> replaced the water and rinsed the gravel in a colander. Fish never lasted
> very long, but now that it is never cleaned, the fish are happy and
growing
> old.
>
>

[~ Windsong ~]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
> the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or
3
> of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the
roseys
> made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
> water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent.

## What *ARE* the parameters? I use these pools all the time and the fish
don't die. Too many at once and ammonia will become a problem as you know.
Maybe these fish were sick when you bought them... ???

I have a couple of
> baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small
taro.
> The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
> shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> unknown plastic content.

## The pool plastic is safe. People allow small children to play in them.
Even newborn fish thrive in them.

I have been floating the new fish bags for about
> 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
> see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but
water
> temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
> the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> variety you see all over and many report using successfully

## I don't believe the plastic is toxic. I've been using these blue and
green kiddy pools for years now.

and 2) no
> algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food but
> never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost
temporary
> fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?

## I believe this is a fish problem. They're either sick when you get them
or there needs to be some oxygenation in these pools. I have small cheap
power heads moving the water in them if there are more than a few fish.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"A new survey of online daters found that
47% of people believe that their online date will
go well... the other 53% are still missing."
~~<~~<~~{@
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ Windsong ~]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
...
> I guess 76 seems so cool to me I had not seriously considered this. I
> have resisted equiptment since I will have to run an extension cord out
the
> window untill I am move confident of my 'experiment' and also sink the
pool.
> Tell me more about the pond water. I tried this initially with only
> slightly better results, but the mosquitos seemed to be magnetized to it.

** If mosquitoes are attracted to this pool you need some water movement. I
have an extension cord feeding 3 kiddy pools behind my house. Just don't
let the plugs get wet, keep them covered with something watertight. Make
sure you have one of those breakers.

> Currently I only have 'dechlored' water. The plants seem to be doing
> relatively well even in the shade. I havent monitored for water
temperature
> swings which might be contributing since it is only 70 gallons above
ground.
> The fish seem partially bloated by the time I find them in the morning,
> which I thought meant they were dying early in the evening. So I thought I
> would see them searching for oxygen, but they rarely come to the surface.
> Any further ideas would be much appreciated. I may just have to run the
> cord and refill with pond water to narrow down my problem. I have seen
> several small still ponds around the area just loaded with anacharis and
> lilies with several fantails or orandas.

## If it's only 70 gallons and "still water," keep the fish numbers down to
no more than a few.

I am missing something - perhaps
> it is the aged water. Kathy - did you aerate to solve your problem? Do
> you think an airstone will move the water enough to deter the mosquitos.

## Yes, mosquitoes will not lay eggs in moving water. They like stagnant
water - the same kind of water that kills fish.

I
> may just be striving for too much from too little. At least one of the
> still ponds I saw was using dunks. I'm just so dad blasted cheap:( Heck
> thats half of my motivation - to keep from having to compost overgrowing
> plants. Thanxx

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"A new survey of online daters found that
47% of people believe that their online date will
go well... the other 53% are still missing."
~~<~~<~~{@
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ Windsong ~]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
. com...
> Thanxx for the answers. I suspect that somewhere in your and Kathy's
> advice is a very good start. I have just returned with a pump and 5" 'air
> stone', and 4 more roseys. I think I will just try that first, and then
the
> pond water - mostly because I am lazy and the water has aged 10-14 days
now.

** We don't age the water. I put the fish in right away with no problem.
As soon as the chlorine is gone.

> I would be curious to know (probably unknowable) if her past failures were
> because she was putting the fish in a bowl (stress?)

** More like ammonia poisoning.

or because she was
> killing the cycling bacteria by washing the gravel, resulting in
poisoning,

** That would be my best guess.

> ecspecially if she doesnt have an independent bio filter. Coincidentally
we
> have just added 2 fish to our new aquarium and I am wrestling with the
right
> thing to do. Frequent water changes seem to be mandatory. But, our water
> has ammonia and nitrites.If I bind them before adding to tank, I am
> concerned my benefecial bacteria will starve and die out, after a month of
> no fish cycling.
> Thanxx again
> Bill Brister

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"A new survey of online daters found that
47% of people believe that their online date will
go well... the other 53% are still missing."
~~<~~<~~{@
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Barbara2245]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message >...
> I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
> the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or 3
> of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the roseys
> made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
> water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple of
> baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small taro.
> The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
> shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for about
> 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
> see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but water
> temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
> the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
> algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little f
lake food but
> never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost temporary
> fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?

You need to put a small pump to spray the water in the air to add O2
to the water. The plants add O2 during the day but use it at night so
thats when the fish die. Fish are timid at first and need a pipe or
flower pot to hide in.
Give them some shade so you do not have a fish fry one day. Good
luck.

[RichToyBox]

Most of the responses have addressed oxygen levels, and some have suggested
ammonia. Since the fish are dying within a day, I doubt the ammonia level
would climb high enough to do the fish in in only one day, particularly with
only a few small fish. I also wonder about the oxygen level, since the
number and size of the fish is small, it doesn't seem possible that it is
oxygen. I would suspect sick fish when you bought them. It could also be
chlorine from chloramine treated water, which is very hard to get the
chlorine to leave the water.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
> the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or
3
> of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the
roseys
> made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
> water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple of
> baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small
taro.
> The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
> shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for about
> 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
> see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but
water
> temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
> the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
> algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food but
> never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost
temporary
> fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?
>
> Bill Brister
>
>

[Bill Stock]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm still trying to get my still water kiddie pool going, but I cant keep
> the fish alive. I have been using small rosey reds or feeder comets 2 or
3
> of each. The comets frequently die over the first night. One of the
roseys
> made it a week. Lethargy and hiding is the only symptom I have seen. The
> water parameters are perfect but the fish sure arent. I have a couple of
> baby lilies, a handful of submerged plants, some floaters and a small
taro.
> The only thing different than my thriving pond is no filter or pump, its
> shaded and water temp is 12 degrees lower (76), it is not sunk yet, and
> unknown plastic content. I have been floating the new fish bags for about
> 30 minutes. I used it in the spring to hold plants while doing a PP
> treatment (also treated it) and numerous tadpoles and several 'can barely
> see them they're so small' fry were fine. It was in the sun then but
water
> temps were probably similar because of the season. My two best guesses at
> the problem are 1)toxic plastic, although it is the same blue plastic
> variety you see all over and many report using successfully and 2) no
> algae=starving the fish. I have tried giving them a little flake food but
> never seen them eating it. This was going to be my ultra low cost
temporary
> fix for wanting more plants and no mosquitos. Any ideas?
>
> Bill Brister
>


If it's a new kiddie pool, it could be the platicizers leaching out of the
plastic. Does it smell like a new car?

[Karen]

In article >, "Newbie Bill"
> writes:

> Do
>you think an airstone will move the water enough to deter the mosquitos.

when I moved from Houston I put my fish in a swimming pool and added a spitter
on the side and a small pump with bell fountain, the fish did fine for about 1
month before the pond was completed. sounds like you need oxygen in the water
from some source, airstone spitter, filter etc.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Frequent water changes seem to be mandatory. But, our water
>has ammonia and nitrites.If I bind them before adding to tank, I am
>concerned my benefecial bacteria will starve and die out, after a month of
>no fish cycling.

Binding the ammonia makes it non-toxic to the fish, it is still available
to the bacteria to feed on. Use salt for the nitrite, again, it doesn't
"do" anything to the nitrite, salt just makes the fish tolerate it better.
The cycling process will still continue, one adjusts the chemistry so the
fish can tolerate it. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~