Re: Live sand in a plastic bag?

[SG]

In article >, Pszemol wrote:
>
>What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?

Real live sand can not survive in a sealed bag.

>Are there only anaerobic bacteria?

It is only bacteria, and probably only aerobic. The promotional
materical says that it speeds up the initial cycle.

I am fairly convinced that it is snake oil. Especially for a reef,
where all the bacteria you need is on the live rock.

[Rafal]

U¿ytkownik "SG" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
> In article >, Pszemol wrote:
> >
> >What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
>
> Real live sand can not survive in a sealed bag.
>
> >Are there only anaerobic bacteria?
>
> It is only bacteria, and probably only aerobic. The promotional
> materical says that it speeds up the initial cycle.
>
> I am fairly convinced that it is snake oil. Especially for a reef,
> where all the bacteria you need is on the live rock.

by the way ;-)
is someone here who have had any experiences with Worldwide Imports Ent.,
Inc. live sand?
has anyone of you observed the different algae kinds growth on it after
three or four days since you put it into the aquarium ?
thanks a lot

[Mooboy]

i think its more for looks,it is great looking sand and has some beneficial
bacteria

> wrote in message ...
> Recently my LFS introduced new product - I noticed on their shelfs
> live aragonite in a big, plastic bag, inside: wet sand...
>
> What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
> Are there only anaerobic bacteria? I doubt anything else survived
> weeks of shelf storage in this kind of conditions...
> Have you tried it already?
>
> BTW - if is it a real sand from an ocean bottom, how do they pack
> it to not smell killing anybody opens the bag with a terrible stench?

[ReeFeR_MaN]

Would there be a shelf life to "live sand" in a sealed bag?




"Mooboy" > wrote in message ...
> i think its more for looks,it is great looking sand and has some
beneficial
> bacteria
>
> > wrote in message ...
> > Recently my LFS introduced new product - I noticed on their shelfs
> > live aragonite in a big, plastic bag, inside: wet sand...
> >
> > What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
> > Are there only anaerobic bacteria? I doubt anything else survived
> > weeks of shelf storage in this kind of conditions...
> > Have you tried it already?
> >
> > BTW - if is it a real sand from an ocean bottom, how do they pack
> > it to not smell killing anybody opens the bag with a terrible stench?
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

the bag has a 1 year date printed on it as a shelf life.

I used a bag in a new reef back in February of this year that the lfs gave
me to try out. I was skeptical about it being "live" myself. when I opened
the bag, I took some of the H2O and put it in the hydrometer.............it
didn't even register, it appears to be fresh water so I just assumed they
referred to the "live" part as anaerobic bacteria. I filled the tank half
way added the 20# bag over top 40# of aragonite sand (the dead kind), added
a medium sized dead shrimp and the ANN cycle had spiked and returned to 0 in
just 4 days. so I would have to say that it does help kick start the cycle.

kc


"ReeFeR_MaN" > wrote in message
...
> Would there be a shelf life to "live sand" in a sealed bag?
>
>
>
>
> "Mooboy" > wrote in message ...
> > i think its more for looks,it is great looking sand and has some
> beneficial
> > bacteria
> >
> > > wrote in message
...
> > > Recently my LFS introduced new product - I noticed on their shelfs
> > > live aragonite in a big, plastic bag, inside: wet sand...
> > >
> > > What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
> > > Are there only anaerobic bacteria? I doubt anything else survived
> > > weeks of shelf storage in this kind of conditions...
> > > Have you tried it already?
> > >
> > > BTW - if is it a real sand from an ocean bottom, how do they pack
> > > it to not smell killing anybody opens the bag with a terrible stench?
> >
> >
>
>

[Pszemol]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message ...
> I used a bag in a new reef back in February of this year that the lfs gave
> me to try out. I was skeptical about it being "live" myself. when I opened
> the bag, I took some of the H2O and put it in the hydrometer.............it
> didn't even register, it appears to be fresh water so I just assumed they
> referred to the "live" part as anaerobic bacteria.

What product exactly have you tried out? What manufacturer?

> I filled the tank half
> way added the 20# bag over top 40# of aragonite sand (the dead kind), added
> a medium sized dead shrimp and the ANN cycle had spiked and returned to 0 in
> just 4 days. so I would have to say that it does help kick start the cycle.

Were there any live rock? How long does it take normally for you?

[Dragon Slayer]

> What product exactly have you tried out? What manufacturer?..

Carib Sea Inc. Ft. Pierce, Florida
Product # 00790 Reef Sand (use before 3/15/04)

a quote from the bag itself:
"20,000,000+ Bacteria Per Pound"



> Were there any live rock?

none at all, just the sand. at setup I had no spare LR to add and the lfs
had a very poor selection.

>How long does it take normally for you?

it has always been different from tank to tank. usually ammonia will start
to show within a few days of adding the dead shrimp (last tank I used the
skimming from my skimmer instead of the shrimp and it worked well) and the
shrimp will usually be visible in the tank for a week or so. the NO2 starts
around week 3 but is only slight, with a spike around week 4. NO3 usually
spikes a week after NO2. (then the little bounce back and forth)

IME with a tank that has a significant amount of LR that is fully cured, the
ANN cycle is very small and unless monitored very closely it can be missed
all together and for me at least happens within a week

all tanks are different, the larger the substrate size (CC on down to sugar
size sand) and amount of substrate the quicker the cycle "starts" IME (note
I only said start, not complete). the sugar fine sands seam to take the
longest to spike ammonia.

I think the reason for the slight cycle in the LR tanks is because the LR
has already been cycled (if its cured) and it takes care of the ANN cycle in
and of itself. the slight detection I would guess are the bacteria colonies
starting to form in the substrate and competing with the LR till an equal
balance is obtained between all parts of the tank.

just taking a stab in the dark here but I would think that when "live sand"
is packaged in a sealed bag, some of the bacteria and all the worms, bugs,
etc... die off in the bag, this in return feed other bacteria in the bag and
it continues in a cycle of its own. eventually all oxygen in the bag will
be consumed and the life cycle would end at that point, but again this is
just a WAG (wild ass guess) on my part.



as with all factors involved with marine reef keeping YMMV.

kc

[PaulB]

It is probably much like maturation fluid in a sealed bottle. If
bacteria can survive in a sealed bottle I don't see why it can't in a
bag, although I don't think that anything other than bacteria would.

Mine did have some dead plant parts and some shells which might have
been from things that died in the bag.


Pszemol wrote:
> Recently my LFS introduced new product - I noticed on their shelfs
> live aragonite in a big, plastic bag, inside: wet sand...
>
> What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
> Are there only anaerobic bacteria? I doubt anything else survived
> weeks of shelf storage in this kind of conditions...
> Have you tried it already?
>
> BTW - if is it a real sand from an ocean bottom, how do they pack
> it to not smell killing anybody opens the bag with a terrible stench?

[Dragon Slayer]

> They must clean it very good, sterile, and then inoculate with "good"
bacteria.


another quote from the bag:

"Bacterial efficiency has been boosted by Bacter-Vital coenzymic/bacterial
solution developed by Marc Weiss Companies."

[Dragon Slayer]

mine only had sand, no parts of anything else, it was very clean and no
smell at all.

as far as sand goes, it was great, but i would not pay the $30 for 20 lbs
price for it.

kc



"PaulB" > wrote in message
om...
> It is probably much like maturation fluid in a sealed bottle. If
> bacteria can survive in a sealed bottle I don't see why it can't in a
> bag, although I don't think that anything other than bacteria would.
>
> Mine did have some dead plant parts and some shells which might have
> been from things that died in the bag.
>
>
> Pszemol wrote:
> > Recently my LFS introduced new product - I noticed on their shelfs
> > live aragonite in a big, plastic bag, inside: wet sand...
> >
> > What is it exactly? How much life could survive in a sealed bag?
> > Are there only anaerobic bacteria? I doubt anything else survived
> > weeks of shelf storage in this kind of conditions...
> > Have you tried it already?
> >
> > BTW - if is it a real sand from an ocean bottom, how do they pack
> > it to not smell killing anybody opens the bag with a terrible stench?
>

[Pszemol]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message ...
> > They must clean it very good, sterile,
> > and then inoculate with "good" bacteria.
>
> another quote from the bag:
>
> "Bacterial efficiency has been boosted by Bacter-Vital
> coenzymic/bacterial solution developed by Marc Weiss Companies."

Ha! I think I made a good guess then :-)

[Pszemol]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message ...
> mine only had sand, no parts of anything else, it was very clean and no
> smell at all.
>
> as far as sand goes, it was great, but i would not pay the $30 for 20 lbs
> price for it.

What is the current price for a regular dry sand this quality in your area?
I do not know where can I find fine aragonite beside the fish store in
Chicago area. Any advice? I am looking for a "sugar crystals" sized variety.

BTW - What is "Southdown" exactly? You guys use this term frequently...

[Joe V.]

How much is a fair price for live sand? Went to a store that I really
enjoyed today, and the price at that store was $5/pound. ...

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> mine only had sand, no parts of anything else, it was very clean and no
> smell at all.
>
> as far as sand goes, it was great, but i would not pay the $30 for 20 lbs
> price for it.
>
> kc
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

"Southdown" is a company that bags crushed aragonite sand. However, I've read that they were sold some
time back, so other vendors now sell the same thing under different packaging.

Pszemol wrote:

> BTW - What is "Southdown" exactly? You guys use this term frequently...

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[SG]

In article >, Pszemol wrote:
>>
>> as far as sand goes, it was great, but i would not pay the $30 for 20 lbs
>> price for it.
>
>What is the current price for a regular dry sand this quality in your area?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ (currently down)
Has Agramax (sp??) sand of various sizes. I have never purchased them
or used that sand. I think it is $20/40lbs. For a DSB the oolic
variety which is the finest, is supposed to be the best.

[BigBru]

I often have to cycle a tank in as little time as possible. The live sand in
the bag works great, sometimes no ammonia spike at all. A reasonable lfs
will sell some really nice live sand (unbagged from FL), all critters
included, for about the same price per pound. If you are in a rush, the live
sand in a bag is a good way to go.

Bruce


"Joe V." > wrote in message
...
> How much is a fair price for live sand? Went to a store that I really
> enjoyed today, and the price at that store was $5/pound. ...
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > mine only had sand, no parts of anything else, it was very clean and no
> > smell at all.
> >
> > as far as sand goes, it was great, but i would not pay the $30 for 20
lbs
> > price for it.
> >
> > kc
> >
> >
>
>