Comments on Findings?

[ManWorld42]

I am in the process of setting up a tank. I have been reading for
over a month. The following are my findings. Please comment on them.
I don't want to kill any fish.

I bought a 29Gal Corner tank with 30W fluorescent lighting. I have 40
pounds of rainbow gravel in it. It is about an inch or two in
thickness.

I am considering both a cool water approach and an warm water
approach. I am inclined to do a warm water approach since I want to
have plants in it. Here is the warm approach:

Filtration:
1. Hydro V Sponge filter with Maxi Jet 600 160gph as primarily
bio-filtration.
2. Fluval 2+ internal for secondary filtration.
Two filtration units are used in case of a malfunction or cleaning.

Heating
Visi-therm 150W and Visi-therm 75W. Two heaters are used instead of
one to reduce the chance of cooking the fish in case of a malfunction.
I need 200W+ of heating because my home is in the 50's in the winter.

Cleaning:
Python 25 ft.
6" net

Chemical:
Amquel +
- this will neutralize any chlorine during water changes since using
the Python
involves getting water straight from the tap.

Decoration:
Blue Ribbon Australian Barrier Reef Large
- it has a cave for my fish to hide
- it is large enough to hide the ugly sponge filter

Food:
1. TetaMin Tropical Flakes
2. Tetra Treat Bloodworms (Dried)

Plants
1. Hygrophila difformis
2. Rotala Rotundifolia (Rotalia Indica)
3. Bacopa caroliniana
- They are all easy plants available locally.

Fish:
1. 6 Zebra Danios
- 6 seems to be the minimum number of this schooling fish.
- I want a bigger schooling fish but my tank is too small. I really
would have
preferred Giant Danios .... Comments?
2. 1 Blue Gouramis
- Gouramis is a non-schooling fish that tends to attack other fish
even it own
kind. I believe it is too slow to hurt the Danios, please let me
know if I
am wrong.

Stocking order:
3 Zebras for 3 weeks.
3 More Zebras for 3 weeks.
Plants are introduced at week 6
- The water is not rich enough to support plants before this.
Actually, I don't think it will be rich enough at week 6.
- 12 hours of continuous daily lighting needs to be introduced at
this point.
At week 9 the Blue Gouramis is introduced. I may go for the Moombeam
Gouramis instead. We will see.

OR:
I may just get one male Blue Gouramis and put in the plants, wait for
them to grow and get 2 females ... If only they won't kick the crap
out of one another.

Cold Water Approach
2 comet goldfish
no heater, no plants, goldfish food, everything else the same.

I think the cold water approach is probably cheaper since I estimated
it will take over $50 a year to heat the tank for the warm water
approach. The problem with the comet is that they will outgrow the 36
gallon tank in a year or two.

Comments?

[NetMax]

midposted...

"ManWorld42" > wrote in message
m...
> I am in the process of setting up a tank. I have been reading for
> over a month. The following are my findings. Please comment on them.
> I don't want to kill any fish.
>
> I bought a 29Gal Corner tank with 30W fluorescent lighting. I have 40
> pounds of rainbow gravel in it. It is about an inch or two in
> thickness.
>
> I am considering both a cool water approach and an warm water
> approach. I am inclined to do a warm water approach since I want to
> have plants in it. Here is the warm approach:

You can have plants in a cool water application too, but they tend to get
eaten by Goldfish ;~)

> Filtration:
> 1. Hydro V Sponge filter with Maxi Jet 600 160gph as primarily
> bio-filtration.
> 2. Fluval 2+ internal for secondary filtration.
> Two filtration units are used in case of a malfunction or cleaning.

I'm not familiar with the Hydro V Sponge and I'm not a big fan of
internal filters as they take up valuable real-estate and are not as easy
to service as a powerfilter. These are personal preferences. The
redundancy is a good idea. While on the topic of filters, be sure to
cycle the tank properly.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html or fishless cycling:
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html.

> Heating
> Visi-therm 150W and Visi-therm 75W. Two heaters are used instead of
> one to reduce the chance of cooking the fish in case of a malfunction.
> I need 200W+ of heating because my home is in the 50's in the winter.

This site is good for calculating heat requirements, especially atypical
setups:
http://www.kernsanalysis.com/HeaterCalculator.cgi

> Cleaning:
> Python 25 ft.
> 6" net

I suggest you have 2 nets. One small 'chaser' and a large net which
stays motionless until the fish are inside. This is much easier on you,
your plants and the fish.

> Chemical:
> Amquel +
> - this will neutralize any chlorine during water changes since using
> the Python
> involves getting water straight from the tap.

Technically, if it's only chlorine, and your changes were small (10%),
you could be chemical-free. In real life, it is usually chloramine and
the water changes are larger (both requiring some chemical to de-chlor).

> Decoration:
> Blue Ribbon Australian Barrier Reef Large
> - it has a cave for my fish to hide
> - it is large enough to hide the ugly sponge filter

If this Barrier Reef is not made of an inert material, you want to know.
Ideally a hobbyist starts by determining what their natural water
conditions are (neutral, soft & acidic or hard & alkaline). Establish if
the conditions are close to neutral (ie: 6.8 to 7.5pH) or more to an
extreme (under 6.6pH or above 7.8pH). Based on those results, select
fish species which would most naturally do best in your local water. For
example, if your Barrier Reef was made of coral, and your water were hard
& alkaline and your selected fish were African Rift lake cichlids, then
this is a great combination. If your Barrier Reef is inert, then that
removes one variable, leaving you to look at water and fish.

> Food:
> 1. TetaMin Tropical Flakes
> 2. Tetra Treat Bloodworms (Dried)

TetraMin is a reputable company and perhaps hobbyists have stopped
boycotting them since their instant marine tank video fiasco ;~).

> Plants
> 1. Hygrophila difformis
> 2. Rotala Rotundifolia (Rotalia Indica)
> 3. Bacopa caroliniana
> - They are all easy plants available locally.

Corner tanks typically have poor lighting due to their extra depth and
smaller surface area for lighting. This makes live plants more of a
challenge. Perhaps some floating plants would do better to start with.
I often use Pennywort in corner tanks as it can bring leaves close to the
surface, looks attractive, stays thin and draws nutrients from water
column (don't need rich mulm).

> Fish:
> 1. 6 Zebra Danios
> - 6 seems to be the minimum number of this schooling fish.
> - I want a bigger schooling fish but my tank is too small. I really
> would have
> preferred Giant Danios .... Comments?

Pushing it with the Giants. Maybe go with Pearl danios.

> 2. 1 Blue Gouramis
> - Gouramis is a non-schooling fish that tends to attack other fish
> even it own
> kind. I believe it is too slow to hurt the Danios, please let me
> know if I
> am wrong.

Yes, the danios would be safe. Note that not all Gouramis have the same
disposition, and the Blues are up there, only passed by the Golds and
then their cousins, the Paradisefish and Bettas. Less agressive Gouramis
would be the Moonlight, Thicklipped, Dwarf, Pearl and any of the smaller
ones, Licorice, Croaking etc..

> Stocking order:
> 3 Zebras for 3 weeks.
> 3 More Zebras for 3 weeks.
> Plants are introduced at week 6
> - The water is not rich enough to support plants before this.
> Actually, I don't think it will be rich enough at week 6.
> - 12 hours of continuous daily lighting needs to be introduced at
> this point.
> At week 9 the Blue Gouramis is introduced. I may go for the Moombeam
> Gouramis instead. We will see.

Actually, the ammonia/nitrite spike will provide food for the plants
which can be introduced right away. Perhaps add some ferts in the
beginning. I'd add the 2nd batch of fish when your NM3/4 and NO2
readings were both zero (tank is cycled). I would also start with all
siz Zebras from day 1. When cycling with fish, I like to start with
around .25 to .33 of tank capacity (about 8 fish-inches in your case),
and then monitor your levels very carefully, adjusting with increased
water changes and reduced feedings. If you don't want to go to all the
trouble, fishless cycling is imo, much easier. Drop in enough ammonia to
register around 5ppm NH3/4, wait till NO2=zero, do large water change.
Seed the filter with old filter material from a friend's tank to speed up
the process.

> OR:
> I may just get one male Blue Gouramis and put in the plants, wait for
> them to grow and get 2 females ... If only they won't kick the crap
> out of one another.

They might.

> Cold Water Approach
> 2 comet goldfish
> no heater, no plants, goldfish food, everything else the same.

Cool water tanks should really have heaters as well. The thermostats are
just set much lower. A principle function of a heater is to prevent the
water from changing temperature too quickly. I try to keep the water
within 3F in 24 hours. More than that and the fish get stressed.

Imo, the filtration system would need to be beefed up considerably for
Goldfish. Forget dainty internal filters and go with an oversized
powerfilter for the mechanical filtration requirements. Also Comets are
less suitable for this than Fantails. Long cylindrical fish (Comets)
need more swimming area than shorter Fantails, so they will outgrow the
tank faster. If keeping Fantails, the doctrine is to raise the
temperature a new notches for them (as compared to Comets).

> I think the cold water approach is probably cheaper since I estimated
> it will take over $50 a year to heat the tank for the warm water
> approach. The problem with the comet is that they will outgrow the 36
> gallon tank in a year or two.

What happened to the corner 29g tank discussion? *oops*. If you are
concerned about heating costs, slap sheets of styrofoam on the sides and
bottom of the tank and keep a tight fitting cover (sponge filters and
canister filters (external or internal) are better for tight hoods).

> Comments?

You got em :o)
--
www.NetMax.tk

[ManWorld42]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> midposted...
>
> "ManWorld42" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I am in the process of setting up a tank. I have been reading for
> > over a month. The following are my findings. Please comment on them.
> > I don't want to kill any fish.
> >
> > I bought a 29Gal Corner tank with 30W fluorescent lighting. I have 40
> > pounds of rainbow gravel in it. It is about an inch or two in
> > thickness.
> >
> > I am considering both a cool water approach and an warm water
> > approach. I am inclined to do a warm water approach since I want to
> > have plants in it. Here is the warm approach:
>
> You can have plants in a cool water application too, but they tend to get
> eaten by Goldfish ;~)
>
That was what I read. Besides, I have to stick to the plant supply at
my LFS. They don't have much of a selection. Most of them only do
well in warm water.

> > Filtration:
> > 1. Hydro V Sponge filter with Maxi Jet 600 160gph as primarily
> > bio-filtration.
> > 2. Fluval 2+ internal for secondary filtration.
> > Two filtration units are used in case of a malfunction or cleaning.
>
> I'm not familiar with the Hydro V Sponge and I'm not a big fan of
> internal filters as they take up valuable real-estate and are not as easy
> to service as a powerfilter. These are personal preferences. The
> redundancy is a good idea. While on the topic of filters, be sure to
> cycle the tank properly.
> http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html or fishless cycling:
> http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html.
>
I can't hang an external off the back of the tank since it is a corner
tank. The Hydro V is a big ass sponge filter 6" dia and 4" high. It
should be pretty filtration. I plan to run it reversed if the
powerhead don't pop off.
> > Heating
> > Visi-therm 150W and Visi-therm 75W. Two heaters are used instead of
> > one to reduce the chance of cooking the fish in case of a malfunction.
> > I need 200W+ of heating because my home is in the 50's in the winter.
>
> This site is good for calculating heat requirements, especially atypical
> setups:
> http://www.kernsanalysis.com/HeaterCalculator.cgi
>
The site pretty much confirmed my research. I need about 150W or
more.

> > Cleaning:
> > Python 25 ft.
> > 6" net
>
> I suggest you have 2 nets. One small 'chaser' and a large net which
> stays motionless until the fish are inside. This is much easier on you,
> your plants and the fish.
>
Good idea. Thanks. I'll get a 4" brine shrimp net in case I want to
grow my own food one day.
> > Chemical:
> > Amquel +
> > - this will neutralize any chlorine during water changes since using
> > the Python
> > involves getting water straight from the tap.
>
> Technically, if it's only chlorine, and your changes were small (10%),
> you could be chemical-free. In real life, it is usually chloramine and
> the water changes are larger (both requiring some chemical to de-chlor).
>
I am pretty certain my water has chloramine.

> > Decoration:
> > Blue Ribbon Australian Barrier Reef Large
> > - it has a cave for my fish to hide
> > - it is large enough to hide the ugly sponge filter
>
> If this Barrier Reef is not made of an inert material, you want to know.
> Ideally a hobbyist starts by determining what their natural water
> conditions are (neutral, soft & acidic or hard & alkaline). Establish if
> the conditions are close to neutral (ie: 6.8 to 7.5pH) or more to an
> extreme (under 6.6pH or above 7.8pH). Based on those results, select
> fish species which would most naturally do best in your local water. For
> example, if your Barrier Reef was made of coral, and your water were hard
> & alkaline and your selected fish were African Rift lake cichlids, then
> this is a great combination. If your Barrier Reef is inert, then that
> removes one variable, leaving you to look at water and fish.
>
The Barrier Reef is a resin reproduction of the real thing. I only
saw a photo of it online, but the photo is beautiful. I decided to
get the medium. It is cheaper and will still hide the sponge filter.
> > Food:
> > 1. TetaMin Tropical Flakes
> > 2. Tetra Treat Bloodworms (Dried)
>
> TetraMin is a reputable company and perhaps hobbyists have stopped
> boycotting them since their instant marine tank video fiasco ;~).
>
> > Plants
> > 1. Hygrophila difformis
> > 2. Rotala Rotundifolia (Rotalia Indica)
> > 3. Bacopa caroliniana
> > - They are all easy plants available locally.
>
> Corner tanks typically have poor lighting due to their extra depth and
> smaller surface area for lighting. This makes live plants more of a
> challenge. Perhaps some floating plants would do better to start with.
> I often use Pennywort in corner tanks as it can bring leaves close to the
> surface, looks attractive, stays thin and draws nutrients from water
> column (don't need rich mulm).
>
Good suggestions but I have to stick to what I can get loccally.

> > Fish:
> > 1. 6 Zebra Danios
> > - 6 seems to be the minimum number of this schooling fish.
> > - I want a bigger schooling fish but my tank is too small. I really
> > would have
> > preferred Giant Danios .... Comments?
>
> Pushing it with the Giants. Maybe go with Pearl danios.

Probably stick with the Zebra.

>
> > 2. 1 Blue Gouramis
> > - Gouramis is a non-schooling fish that tends to attack other fish
> > even it own
> > kind. I believe it is too slow to hurt the Danios, please let me
> > know if I
> > am wrong.
>
> Yes, the danios would be safe. Note that not all Gouramis have the same
> disposition, and the Blues are up there, only passed by the Golds and
> then their cousins, the Paradisefish and Bettas. Less agressive Gouramis
> would be the Moonlight, Thicklipped, Dwarf, Pearl and any of the smaller
> ones, Licorice, Croaking etc..
>
Say, if the Gouramises I see in the fish store have their dorsal fins
folded down, are they in deep distress? I saw some Gold ones in
Petco, and they are on sale, I am thinking of taking a chance with
them considering that I have no fish right now. I may be saving some
lives.

> > Stocking order:
> > 3 Zebras for 3 weeks.
> > 3 More Zebras for 3 weeks.
> > Plants are introduced at week 6
> > - The water is not rich enough to support plants before this.
> > Actually, I don't think it will be rich enough at week 6.
> > - 12 hours of continuous daily lighting needs to be introduced at
> > this point.
> > At week 9 the Blue Gouramis is introduced. I may go for the Moombeam
> > Gouramis instead. We will see.
>
> Actually, the ammonia/nitrite spike will provide food for the plants
> which can be introduced right away. Perhaps add some ferts in the
> beginning. I'd add the 2nd batch of fish when your NM3/4 and NO2
> readings were both zero (tank is cycled). I would also start with all
> siz Zebras from day 1. When cycling with fish, I like to start with
> around .25 to .33 of tank capacity (about 8 fish-inches in your case),
> and then monitor your levels very carefully, adjusting with increased
> water changes and reduced feedings. If you don't want to go to all the
> trouble, fishless cycling is imo, much easier. Drop in enough ammonia to
> register around 5ppm NH3/4, wait till NO2=zero, do large water change.
> Seed the filter with old filter material from a friend's tank to speed up
> the process.
>
> > OR:
> > I may just get one male Blue Gouramis and put in the plants, wait for
> > them to grow and get 2 females ... If only they won't kick the crap
> > out of one another.
>
> They might.
>
> > Cold Water Approach
> > 2 comet goldfish
> > no heater, no plants, goldfish food, everything else the same.
>
> Cool water tanks should really have heaters as well. The thermostats are
> just set much lower. A principle function of a heater is to prevent the
> water from changing temperature too quickly. I try to keep the water
> within 3F in 24 hours. More than that and the fish get stressed.
>
> Imo, the filtration system would need to be beefed up considerably for
> Goldfish. Forget dainty internal filters and go with an oversized
> powerfilter for the mechanical filtration requirements. Also Comets are
> less suitable for this than Fantails. Long cylindrical fish (Comets)
> need more swimming area than shorter Fantails, so they will outgrow the
> tank faster. If keeping Fantails, the doctrine is to raise the
> temperature a new notches for them (as compared to Comets).
>
> > I think the cold water approach is probably cheaper since I estimated
> > it will take over $50 a year to heat the tank for the warm water
> > approach. The problem with the comet is that they will outgrow the 36
> > gallon tank in a year or two.
>
> What happened to the corner 29g tank discussion? *oops*. If you are
> concerned about heating costs, slap sheets of styrofoam on the sides and
> bottom of the tank and keep a tight fitting cover (sponge filters and
> canister filters (external or internal) are better for tight hoods).
>
It will cost me about $300 to get the tank set up. $75 on electricity
a years seems a little costly to me. But then, maybe I will get so
much pleasure from the tropicals that I won't mind.

> > Comments?
>
> You got em :o)