September 7th 04, 02:55 PM
wrote:
>reposting of my earlier message:
>
>Jo Ann supplied the following observation and experiment she's been
>running. Remember that this is a single incident AND it is in a tank.
>This mean there could be unknown factors at work or
>this may not apply to any other tank, water pH, condition, etc.
>
>she super sterilized a tank in advance of moving fish into it. Unknown
>to her, Steve had put a small amount of Microlift (an organic waste
>remover) into this tank to see if it would help reduce the ammonia levels
>of these fish when they started spawning. The stuff had been sent to them
>to try out.
>
>The first thing she noticed was that peroxide did not clear the purple
>sterilizing level of PP in the tank. She then dumped all water, changed media and
>cleaned the gravel. Steve added a few more drops of Microlift to the tank (without
>telling Jo Ann). This is classic example of a blinded study cause Jo Ann sure was in
>the dark.
>
>Jo Ann put in the fish. Soon she noticed the fish were lethargic and the
>physical showed that the gills were liver colored purple. She immediately
>checked the water parameters but the ammonia was not bad. She did a water
>change anyway. Soon the fins were shredded and she moved the fish to fresh
>water, did scrapes and found nothing. Some of the fish died, others
>recovered after being moved to fresh water.
>
>She dumped all the water in the tank again, left the media. She left the
>tank for 2 weeks with no fish and then tested for ammonia which was now off
>scale. She did another super PP treatment and once again the peroxide
>wouldnt remove the PP. ONce again she dumped the tank, left the media.
>The next day the ammonia was 0.1.
>
>2 weeks later fish came in, put in the tank but didnt check ammonia in the
>empty tank. 3 days later the fish were spawning and the ammonia was off
>the charts. She did a 50% water. 3 days later the fins were shredding and
>on the fish were on the bottom and lethargic. A scrape showed nothing,
>gills were purple. The fish were moved out of the tank. Some of the fish
>died, the rest have neural damage and probably wont survive.
>
>She did 2- 100% water changes on the fishless tank, but the ammonia was
>still off the wall 24hrs later. Did another 100% water change on the empty
>tank, AND replaced the media completely and found ammonia at 0.1 later that
>evening. Steve now told her he had added the Microlift.
>
>Jo Ann is planning on adding some experimental fish to this tank in the
>future to see just how residual the effect is going to be.
>
>Note: The bacteria in the Microlift is purple bacteria. Some species of
>purple bacteria reduce nitrates to ammonia. Also, purple bacteria eat H2S
>and so are sold in an H2S formula to keep em alive. All additions of
>Microlift were less than the recommended dose. Jo Ann has acidic water,
>adds a calcium buffer to the water and salt. This was the only tank the
>Microlift was added to, no other tanks of fish (with no Microlift) have
>these symptoms.
>
>eventually Jo Ann moved the fish out and used an overnight bleaching of the tanks...
>it generated a foul odor, so be sure to have good ventilation.
>
>as to your problem. I have koi outside in a raised pond (1.5 feet above ground, 2.5
>feet below ground) and I am in zone 5, colder than you. I have a 1600 gallon pond
>and drop a 500 watt tank heater (aquatic ecosystems, in a protective jacket) into the
>pond and cover the pond with plain old 6 mil plastic over a wooden lean to.
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm
>the water stayed at or above 50o for all but 1 month of winter. I continued to feed
>my koi for all but that one month. GF will do just as well in those temps.
>
>you are going to have to thin out your pond until you have a maximum of 1 goldfish
>per 20 gallons of pond. if you would like some natural "birth control" get 3 Orfes.
>they eat the eggs and fry and with them around you wont have excess GF.
>
>Ingrid
>
>
>"Tom Puskar" > wrote:
>
>>I'm new to this group so apologies if this has already been covered.
>>
>>I have an outdoor pond stocked with goldfish. My original 10 goldfish are
>>very prolific and I now have more than 100 fish of various sizes and types.
>>This year alone the outdoor pond has generated over 30 new fish.
>>
>>I'm in zone 6 and we've had a few brutal winters in the past two years. To
>>preserve my finned friends, I built a 300 gallon indoor pond and also have a
>>100 gallon aquarium and a 29 gallon aquarium--all overstocked!
>>
>>Here's my problem and I'd appreciate help. I appear to have a pretty severe
>>ammonia problem in all the indoor tanks. Although I haven't lost a single
>>fish (and they are breeding in the 300 gallon tank) I keep getting ammonia
>>readings off the scale on the standard kits.
>>
>>I do water changes, charge the aquaria with Cycle or MicrobeLift but the
>>readings are still high. I put ammo rocks (or chips as appropriate) in the
>>tanks but still get high readings. Nitrates are also usually pretty high.
>>
>>I hate to get rid of my fish but I need to fix this problem. The fish range
>>in size from tiny fry (1 inch or less) to 6-8 inches long.
>>
>>Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>
>>I hate to make this a marathon post and would be glad to discuss additional
>>details offline.
>>
>>Thanks to anyone with ideas.
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
>reposting of my earlier message:
>
>Jo Ann supplied the following observation and experiment she's been
>running. Remember that this is a single incident AND it is in a tank.
>This mean there could be unknown factors at work or
>this may not apply to any other tank, water pH, condition, etc.
>
>she super sterilized a tank in advance of moving fish into it. Unknown
>to her, Steve had put a small amount of Microlift (an organic waste
>remover) into this tank to see if it would help reduce the ammonia levels
>of these fish when they started spawning. The stuff had been sent to them
>to try out.
>
>The first thing she noticed was that peroxide did not clear the purple
>sterilizing level of PP in the tank. She then dumped all water, changed media and
>cleaned the gravel. Steve added a few more drops of Microlift to the tank (without
>telling Jo Ann). This is classic example of a blinded study cause Jo Ann sure was in
>the dark.
>
>Jo Ann put in the fish. Soon she noticed the fish were lethargic and the
>physical showed that the gills were liver colored purple. She immediately
>checked the water parameters but the ammonia was not bad. She did a water
>change anyway. Soon the fins were shredded and she moved the fish to fresh
>water, did scrapes and found nothing. Some of the fish died, others
>recovered after being moved to fresh water.
>
>She dumped all the water in the tank again, left the media. She left the
>tank for 2 weeks with no fish and then tested for ammonia which was now off
>scale. She did another super PP treatment and once again the peroxide
>wouldnt remove the PP. ONce again she dumped the tank, left the media.
>The next day the ammonia was 0.1.
>
>2 weeks later fish came in, put in the tank but didnt check ammonia in the
>empty tank. 3 days later the fish were spawning and the ammonia was off
>the charts. She did a 50% water. 3 days later the fins were shredding and
>on the fish were on the bottom and lethargic. A scrape showed nothing,
>gills were purple. The fish were moved out of the tank. Some of the fish
>died, the rest have neural damage and probably wont survive.
>
>She did 2- 100% water changes on the fishless tank, but the ammonia was
>still off the wall 24hrs later. Did another 100% water change on the empty
>tank, AND replaced the media completely and found ammonia at 0.1 later that
>evening. Steve now told her he had added the Microlift.
>
>Jo Ann is planning on adding some experimental fish to this tank in the
>future to see just how residual the effect is going to be.
>
>Note: The bacteria in the Microlift is purple bacteria. Some species of
>purple bacteria reduce nitrates to ammonia. Also, purple bacteria eat H2S
>and so are sold in an H2S formula to keep em alive. All additions of
>Microlift were less than the recommended dose. Jo Ann has acidic water,
>adds a calcium buffer to the water and salt. This was the only tank the
>Microlift was added to, no other tanks of fish (with no Microlift) have
>these symptoms.
>
>eventually Jo Ann moved the fish out and used an overnight bleaching of the tanks...
>it generated a foul odor, so be sure to have good ventilation.
>
>as to your problem. I have koi outside in a raised pond (1.5 feet above ground, 2.5
>feet below ground) and I am in zone 5, colder than you. I have a 1600 gallon pond
>and drop a 500 watt tank heater (aquatic ecosystems, in a protective jacket) into the
>pond and cover the pond with plain old 6 mil plastic over a wooden lean to.
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm
>the water stayed at or above 50o for all but 1 month of winter. I continued to feed
>my koi for all but that one month. GF will do just as well in those temps.
>
>you are going to have to thin out your pond until you have a maximum of 1 goldfish
>per 20 gallons of pond. if you would like some natural "birth control" get 3 Orfes.
>they eat the eggs and fry and with them around you wont have excess GF.
>
>Ingrid
>
>
>"Tom Puskar" > wrote:
>
>>I'm new to this group so apologies if this has already been covered.
>>
>>I have an outdoor pond stocked with goldfish. My original 10 goldfish are
>>very prolific and I now have more than 100 fish of various sizes and types.
>>This year alone the outdoor pond has generated over 30 new fish.
>>
>>I'm in zone 6 and we've had a few brutal winters in the past two years. To
>>preserve my finned friends, I built a 300 gallon indoor pond and also have a
>>100 gallon aquarium and a 29 gallon aquarium--all overstocked!
>>
>>Here's my problem and I'd appreciate help. I appear to have a pretty severe
>>ammonia problem in all the indoor tanks. Although I haven't lost a single
>>fish (and they are breeding in the 300 gallon tank) I keep getting ammonia
>>readings off the scale on the standard kits.
>>
>>I do water changes, charge the aquaria with Cycle or MicrobeLift but the
>>readings are still high. I put ammo rocks (or chips as appropriate) in the
>>tanks but still get high readings. Nitrates are also usually pretty high.
>>
>>I hate to get rid of my fish but I need to fix this problem. The fish range
>>in size from tiny fry (1 inch or less) to 6-8 inches long.
>>
>>Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>
>>I hate to make this a marathon post and would be glad to discuss additional
>>details offline.
>>
>>Thanks to anyone with ideas.
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.