Butcher Block Countertop

[Dan White]

Hi. I am putting a hard rock maple countertop in my deli. I found what
seems to be a good supplier that has good prices for unfinished 1.5"
countertops. I had a couple of questions/comments if anybody cares to lend
a hand.

First, here are the dimensions of what I need:

- 36" x 15 ft.
- 36" x 5 ft.
- 24" or 25" x 4 ft.
- 12" x 14 ft.
- 12" x 11' 8"

1. Can anybody recommend (email?) someone who makes quality counters at a
good price?
2. Only the 36" x 15 ft. piece is going to have food contact, so I was going
to use mineral oil for that one. The others are either for checkout or for
customer seating and I though I'd use a poly or other nice finish. Any
comment?
3. Should I seal the end grain with paint or other? Some of the end grains
will be visible, so I'd like to use something that is durable and looks OK,
like maybe a clear sealer.
4. Some of these pieces will be joined together in an L shape. I was
thinking of putting L shaped plywood down first, and then laying the two
pieces on top of that. Then I could drill into each piece from underneath
the plywood. I'm not sure if this will give me the best, most seamless fit
(probably not). Any suggestions here?

Thanks for any help,
dwhite

[Dan White]

Oops. Silly me. Wrong group.

dwhite

[Vicki S]

lol...no problem. My dinning room suite is made of hard rock maple and
is of the highest quality. Very fine wood there and a very fine grain.
Good luck and I hope you find out what you were looking for.

Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

Visit me on line at
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[Billy]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
t...


| 2. Only the 36" x 15 ft. piece is going to have food contact, so I
was going
| to use mineral oil for that one. The others are either for
checkout or for
| customer seating and I though I'd use a poly or other nice finish.
Any
| comment?


I've always used peanut oil for wood that will have food contact.
YMMV


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[Dan White]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> t...
>
>
> | 2. Only the 36" x 15 ft. piece is going to have food contact, so I
> was going
> | to use mineral oil for that one. The others are either for
> checkout or for
> | customer seating and I though I'd use a poly or other nice finish.
> Any
> | comment?
>
>
> I've always used peanut oil for wood that will have food contact.
> YMMV
>

Well, they really don't recommend using vegetable, etc. oils. I guess if it
is a relatively small cutting board that gets a lot of washing you can get
away with it. On a 45 square foot countertop, the food oils will go rancid
eventually and leave an odor, according to the manufacturer. I guess my M
V'd on that one! :)

dwhite

[Jeff Pratt]

Billy wrote:

>
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> t...
>
>
> | 2. Only the 36" x 15 ft. piece is going to have food contact, so I
> was going
> | to use mineral oil for that one. The others are either for
> checkout or for
> | customer seating and I though I'd use a poly or other nice finish.
> Any
> | comment?
>
>
> I've always used peanut oil for wood that will have food contact.
> YMMV
>
>

You might want to be careful using peanut oil. Anyone with nut allergies
that eats food prepared on that wood could die.

Jeff

[Billy]

"Jeff Pratt" > wrote in message
news:es_%c.113946$A8.71420@edtnps89...
| Billy wrote:
|
|
| You might want to be careful using peanut oil. Anyone with nut
allergies
| that eats food prepared on that wood could die.
|
| Jeff

The things I used it for were made for myself. Reminds me of the
requirement at my kids school this year. There is ONE STUDENT that
has a peanut allergy, so EVERY FAMILY must change their lives for
him. I can't send any of my kids to school with any peanut product in
their lunch, in case they trade lunches with this kid. Pfft.


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[Jim85CJ]

"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives for him."
That's what you get from a government school.

Billy wrote:
> "Jeff Pratt" > wrote in message
> news:es_%c.113946$A8.71420@edtnps89...
> | Billy wrote:
> |
> |
> | You might want to be careful using peanut oil. Anyone with nut
> allergies
> | that eats food prepared on that wood could die.
> |
> | Jeff
>
> The things I used it for were made for myself. Reminds me of the
> requirement at my kids school this year. There is ONE STUDENT that
> has a peanut allergy, so EVERY FAMILY must change their lives for
> him. I can't send any of my kids to school with any peanut product in
> their lunch, in case they trade lunches with this kid. Pfft.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 9/3/2004
>
>

[Vicki S]

>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>for him." That's what you get from a
>government school.

I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.

Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

Visit me on line at
http://shamrock4u.250free.com

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[Jeff Pratt]

Vicki S wrote:

>
>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>government school.
>
> I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>
> Vicki

Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really put your
child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's child?

Jeff

[Sue]

Actually some peanut allergies are so severe that a child opening a
lunchbox containing peanuts in the same room could cause a full-on
anaphylactic reaction.
British air companies don't serve peanuts for this reason.

I have some allergies that are only triggered by direct contact or injestion
but have a friend with a nut allergy who had a reaction to almond shampoo -
her boyfriend had used it!

Surely any parent should understand the danger! They would soon shout if
their child was at risk. Any child who will only eat PB&J sandwiches could
have them - minus the PB!






"Vicki S" > wrote in message
...
>
> >"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> >for him." That's what you get from a
> >government school.
>
> I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>
> Vicki

[Jim85CJ]

so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid... makes
sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and everyone else
can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to bend over backwards
for the one or two oddballs out there?
Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...

Jeff Pratt wrote:

> Vicki S wrote:
>
>
>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>government school.
>>
>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>>others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>
>>Vicki
>
>
> Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really put your
> child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's child?
>
> Jeff

[Jeff Pratt]

Jim85CJ wrote:

> so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid... makes
> sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and everyone else
> can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to bend over backwards
> for the one or two oddballs out there?
> Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...

Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other, DEATH. Yup,
seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I can't shoot a firearm
within the city. It sure would be convenient to be able to do my target
shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't be justified though.

Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.

Jeff


> Jeff Pratt wrote:
>
>> Vicki S wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>>government school.
>>>
>>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>>>others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>>
>>>Vicki
>>
>>
>> Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really put
>> your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's child?
>>
>> Jeff

[Jim85CJ]

separate the problem kid out... problem dealt with... thanks god for
private schools...

Jeff Pratt wrote:

> Jim85CJ wrote:
>
>
>>so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid... makes
>>sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and everyone else
>>can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to bend over backwards
>>for the one or two oddballs out there?
>>Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...
>
>
> Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other, DEATH. Yup,
> seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I can't shoot a firearm
> within the city. It sure would be convenient to be able to do my target
> shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't be justified though.
>
> Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>>Jeff Pratt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Vicki S wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>>>government school.
>>>>
>>>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>>>>others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>>>
>>>>Vicki
>>>
>>>
>>>Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really put
>>>your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's child?
>>>
>>>Jeff
>
>

[Jeff Pratt]

Jim85CJ wrote:

> separate the problem kid out... problem dealt with... thanks god for
> private schools...

How does that deal with the problem? If the kind can have a deadly reaction
to aerosolized nut products? You would literally have to have a separate
entrance, classroom, ventilation system, etc, etc, etc. If the school were
to do that, I'm fairly certain they would have the entire community up in
arms over the "waste of taxpayer dollars". Or do you intend to pay for his
private schooling? Same problem. From where I stand, it looks like
banning peanuts is the least bad solution.

Jeff

> Jeff Pratt wrote:
>
>> Jim85CJ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid... makes
>>>sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and everyone else
>>>can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to bend over backwards
>>>for the one or two oddballs out there?
>>>Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...
>>
>>
>> Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other, DEATH.
>> Yup,
>> seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I can't shoot a
>> firearm
>> within the city. It sure would be convenient to be able to do my target
>> shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't be justified though.
>>
>> Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>>Jeff Pratt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Vicki S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>>>>government school.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>>>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>>>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>>>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask
>>>>>for others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for
>>>>>them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Vicki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really put
>>>>your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's child?
>>>>
>>>>Jeff
>>
>>

[RedForeman ©®]

|| separate the problem kid out... problem dealt with... thanks god for
|| private schools...
||
|| Jeff Pratt wrote:
||
||| Jim85CJ wrote:
|||
|||
|||| so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid...
|||| makes sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and
|||| everyone else can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to
|||| bend over backwards for the one or two oddballs out there?
|||| Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...
|||
|||
||| Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other,
||| DEATH. Yup, seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I
||| can't shoot a firearm within the city. It sure would be convenient
||| to be able to do my target shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't
||| be justified though.
|||
||| Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.
|||
||| Jeff
|||
|||
|||
|||| Jeff Pratt wrote:
||||
||||
||||| Vicki S wrote:
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||||| "EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
||||||| for him." That's what you get from a
||||||| government school.
||||||
|||||| I would be telling the school where they can stick their
|||||| peanutbutter rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent
|||||| would not send them to school with something they would not eat.
|||||| Seems the parent of this child has not set down with their own
|||||| child and told them not to ask for others food, instead they are
|||||| trying to make the school do it for them.
||||||
|||||| Vicki
|||||
|||||
||||| Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really
||||| put your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's
||||| child?
|||||
||||| Jeff

Back when I was a kid, *stop laughing*.... Before the administration got in
a hissy about stuff like this, the 'parents' were responsible for their
children... not the school.. A parent tells their child that this will
happen if they trade food... if they do, they learn the hard way... it
wouldn't happen again, that's for sure... the 'parents' were smart enough
to tell the child what happens when and if, and the child was smart enough
to know what not to do and what it could do...

I still think the child should be left to it's own problem and if eating
seperately is needed then fine, but the school should not be 'reworked'
because of 1 kid... that is the 'parent's' problem.... not every OTHER
parents.....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
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| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
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| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

[Jim85CJ]

agree 100%

RedForeman ©® wrote:

> || separate the problem kid out... problem dealt with... thanks god for
> || private schools...
> ||
> || Jeff Pratt wrote:
> ||
> ||| Jim85CJ wrote:
> |||
> |||
> |||| so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid...
> |||| makes sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and
> |||| everyone else can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to
> |||| bend over backwards for the one or two oddballs out there?
> |||| Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...
> |||
> |||
> ||| Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other,
> ||| DEATH. Yup, seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I
> ||| can't shoot a firearm within the city. It sure would be convenient
> ||| to be able to do my target shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't
> ||| be justified though.
> |||
> ||| Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.
> |||
> ||| Jeff
> |||
> |||
> |||
> |||| Jeff Pratt wrote:
> ||||
> ||||
> ||||| Vicki S wrote:
> |||||
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||||| "EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> ||||||| for him." That's what you get from a
> ||||||| government school.
> ||||||
> |||||| I would be telling the school where they can stick their
> |||||| peanutbutter rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent
> |||||| would not send them to school with something they would not eat.
> |||||| Seems the parent of this child has not set down with their own
> |||||| child and told them not to ask for others food, instead they are
> |||||| trying to make the school do it for them.
> ||||||
> |||||| Vicki
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||| Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really
> ||||| put your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's
> ||||| child?
> |||||
> ||||| Jeff
>
> Back when I was a kid, *stop laughing*.... Before the administration got in
> a hissy about stuff like this, the 'parents' were responsible for their
> children... not the school.. A parent tells their child that this will
> happen if they trade food... if they do, they learn the hard way... it
> wouldn't happen again, that's for sure... the 'parents' were smart enough
> to tell the child what happens when and if, and the child was smart enough
> to know what not to do and what it could do...
>
> I still think the child should be left to it's own problem and if eating
> seperately is needed then fine, but the school should not be 'reworked'
> because of 1 kid... that is the 'parent's' problem.... not every OTHER
> parents.....
>

[Vicki S]

>Actually some peanut allergies are so
>severe that a child opening a lunchbox
>containing peanuts in the same room
>could cause a full-on anaphylactic
>reaction.


>British air companies don't serve peanuts
>for this reason.
>I have some allergies that are only
>triggered by direct contact or injestion but
>have a friend with a nut allergy who had a
>reaction to almond shampoo - her
>boyfriend had used it!


>Surely any parent should understand the
>danger! They would soon shout if their
>child was at risk. Any child who will only
>eat PB&J sandwiches could have them -
>minus the PB!

The original post said nothing about airborne allergies to peanuts. He
said his child could not bring in a PB sandwich due to the possibility
of sharing. I stand by my statement that it is the responsibility of
the parent to teach their own child to not take food from another
student. It is not the responsibility of government to dictate what
children can eat.

Botanical shampoos and body washes are very popular these days. If you
want schools to boycott peanuts what is to stop the government from
making malls, grocery stores, etc... not allow their customers which use
these products from shopping there. How well do you think that will go
over for the 99.99% of customers being told that they can't shop there
if they use any botanical products, because there is a small chance that
someone may have a reaction. Or better yet, just ban these products
from being sold.

I too know people who have allergies and they take personal
responsibility for them selves. I personally have allergies (some which
would kill me) and I have never told others that they can't eat or do
something which I can't. If my child could not eat peanuts than besides
teaching my own child, a polite statement to the child's teacher would
be enough. If the teacher just tells all the children to not share with
anyone than there would not be a problem. That way there is no finger
pointing and everyone is happy. I can just imagine how that child would
feel if the other students start picking on him/her because they can't
eat what they like. And we all know how cruel children can be.

Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

Visit me on line at
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(put to Vicki in subject line or my spam filter will discard)

[Vicki S]

>agree 100%

Same here! I often wonder how it is that I got to be the age I am. We
rode our bikes without helmets, swam without lifeguards, and ate PB&J.
Where is the sense of "personal responsibility" these days.

Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

Visit me on line at
http://shamrock4u.250free.com

To send e-mail delete webtv.net and add msn.com
(put to Vicki in subject line or my spam filter will discard)

[Jim85CJ]

How about sleeping in the back of the station wagon on long trips...

Vicki S wrote:

>>agree 100%
>
>
> Same here! I often wonder how it is that I got to be the age I am. We
> rode our bikes without helmets, swam without lifeguards, and ate PB&J.
> Where is the sense of "personal responsibility" these days.
>
> Vicki
>
>
> "It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."
>
> ~ Robert E. Lee~
>
> Visit me on line at
> http://shamrock4u.250free.com
>
> To send e-mail delete webtv.net and add msn.com
> (put to Vicki in subject line or my spam filter will discard)
>

[Philip Lewis]

(Vicki S) writes:
>>agree 100%
>Where is the sense of "personal responsibility" these days.
I agree as well.

As has been suggested the child doesn't appear to be airborn allergic.
Teach him/her to not eat peanut products, and not eat foods of unknown
peanut contact.

What if someone in the house makes a peanut butter sandwich and leaves
some on the counter and the next person to make a salami sandwich is
contaminated?

As far as airborn allergies, again I say accept personal
responsibility. What if this kid were at the mall and sat on a bench
where the person sitting before was a midget elephant keeper at the
circus. Think of the peanut residue which could have been left on that
bench. (Do you know how many peanuts a midget elephant can eat?!
Enough that it won't fit in my pajamas, which at least helps it not
get shot.)

If the enviroment can kill you, you need to limit your exposure to the
enviroment.

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

[Aquarijen]

"Vicki S" > wrote in message
...
>
>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>government school.
>
> I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>
> Vicki

With a sensitive peanut allergy, the child could have an adverse reaction to
the *breath* of another child who ate peanuts. A peanut allergy is serious.
It is not from trading the food that those rules come from.
-Jen

[Aquarijen]

Kids with very bad peanut allergies can die from the *breath* of someone who
has eaten peanuts. If they are sensitive, they can die from peanut smell.
Pretty scarey, huh?

How does a parent who is required by law to send their child to school
safeguard against that if even only 10% of children eat PB&J sandwitches?
How about the bully kid who might breathe in the kid's face?

Thank goodness my kid is only allergic to wheat and milk. Much easier than
a peanut allergy. At least he won't die from the smell or touch of wheat or
milk. PIA, but still workable - at least he doesn't need too much
modification. I do hate it when they have field trips to restaurants
though. He has to bring his own lunch and this usually ruffles the feathers
of the restaurant people.

He, too likes peanut butter and I feel for anyone whose kid goes where it is
not allowed.
-Jen

[Jim85CJ]

"die from the *breath*"
Oh come on now... stick the damn kid in a bubble then...

Aquarijen wrote:

> Kids with very bad peanut allergies can die from the *breath* of someone who
> has eaten peanuts. If they are sensitive, they can die from peanut smell.
> Pretty scarey, huh?
>
> How does a parent who is required by law to send their child to school
> safeguard against that if even only 10% of children eat PB&J sandwitches?
> How about the bully kid who might breathe in the kid's face?
>
> Thank goodness my kid is only allergic to wheat and milk. Much easier than
> a peanut allergy. At least he won't die from the smell or touch of wheat or
> milk. PIA, but still workable - at least he doesn't need too much
> modification. I do hate it when they have field trips to restaurants
> though. He has to bring his own lunch and this usually ruffles the feathers
> of the restaurant people.
>
> He, too likes peanut butter and I feel for anyone whose kid goes where it is
> not allowed.
> -Jen
>
>

[TYNK 7]

>bject: Re: Butcher Block Countertop
>From: "Aquarijen"
>Date: 9/10/2004 3:13 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Vicki S" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>government school.
>>
>> I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>
>> Vicki
>
>With a sensitive peanut allergy, the child could have an adverse reaction to
>the *breath* of another child who ate peanuts. A peanut allergy is serious.
>It is not from trading the food that those rules come from.
>-Jen

I know this is off topic, but I just have to ask.
For real? Just from the breath?
I had a peanut allergic 3 yr old in my day care kids when I worked at a center
years ago.
Luckily, he wasn't that bad off, cuz the kids ate it all around him and he was
always trying to sneak some from the other kids. I and the other teacher sure
had to watch him like a hawk on peanut butter days..or peanut ingredients.

[CaptRon]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> Back when I was a kid, *stop laughing*.... Before the administration got
in
> a hissy about stuff like this, the 'parents' were responsible for their
> children... not the school.. A parent tells their child that this will
> happen if they trade food... if they do, they learn the hard way... it
> wouldn't happen again, that's for sure... the 'parents' were smart enough
> to tell the child what happens when and if, and the child was smart enough
> to know what not to do and what it could do...


My nephew is 2 1/2 years old. His peanut allergy is so severe that he can
go into anaphalactic shock (know that's spelled wrong) if the kid next to
him has peanut butter residue on his hands and they pick up the same book.
Would it be fair for her child to possibly die because your kid didnt wash
his hands after lunch?

For them, its not just a matter of them removing all peanut products from
their home/child but mom and dad cant even have something cooked in peanut
oil if they go out on a date.

dainerra

[CaptRon]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> || separate the problem kid out... problem dealt with... thanks god for
> || private schools...
> ||
> || Jeff Pratt wrote:
> ||
> ||| Jim85CJ wrote:
> |||
> |||
> |||| so hundreds of kids need to be inconveinced because of one kid...
> |||| makes sense to me. Make the darn kid eat in the classroom and
> |||| everyone else can eat in the cafeteria. Why do we always have to
> |||| bend over backwards for the one or two oddballs out there?
> |||| Hell, can't even get peanuts on an airplane anymore...
> |||
> |||
> ||| Hmmm on the one hand we have inconvenience, and on the other,
> ||| DEATH. Yup, seems like a logical proposition to me. Just like I
> ||| can't shoot a firearm within the city. It sure would be convenient
> ||| to be able to do my target shooting in the back yard. It wouldn't
> ||| be justified though.
> |||
> ||| Sometimes life is a pain in the ass. Grow up and deal with it.
> |||
> ||| Jeff
> |||
> |||
> |||
> |||| Jeff Pratt wrote:
> ||||
> ||||
> ||||| Vicki S wrote:
> |||||
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||||| "EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> ||||||| for him." That's what you get from a
> ||||||| government school.
> ||||||
> |||||| I would be telling the school where they can stick their
> |||||| peanutbutter rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent
> |||||| would not send them to school with something they would not eat.
> |||||| Seems the parent of this child has not set down with their own
> |||||| child and told them not to ask for others food, instead they are
> |||||| trying to make the school do it for them.
> ||||||
> |||||| Vicki
> |||||
> |||||
> ||||| Really not trying to start a flame war here, but would you really
> ||||| put your child's picky tastes above the life of someone else's
> ||||| child?
> |||||
> ||||| Jeff
>
> Back when I was a kid, *stop laughing*.... Before the administration got
in
> a hissy about stuff like this, the 'parents' were responsible for their
> children... not the school.. A parent tells their child that this will
> happen if they trade food... if they do, they learn the hard way... it
> wouldn't happen again, that's for sure... the 'parents' were smart enough
> to tell the child what happens when and if, and the child was smart enough
> to know what not to do and what it could do...
>
> I still think the child should be left to it's own problem and if eating
> seperately is needed then fine, but the school should not be 'reworked'
> because of 1 kid... that is the 'parent's' problem.... not every OTHER
> parents.....
>
> --
> | RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
> | ==========================
> | 2003 TRX450ES
> | 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> | '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> | ==========================
> | ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> | ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
> | for any questions you may have....
> | www.gmail.com
>
>

[blank]

[NetMax]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >bject: Re: Butcher Block Countertop
> >From: "Aquarijen"
> >Date: 9/10/2004 3:13 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Vicki S" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> >>>for him." That's what you get from a
> >>>government school.
> >>
> >> I would be telling the school where they can stick their
peanutbutter
> >> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send
them
> >> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of
this
> >> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask
for
> >> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for
them.
> >>
> >> Vicki
> >
> >With a sensitive peanut allergy, the child could have an adverse
reaction to
> >the *breath* of another child who ate peanuts. A peanut allergy is
serious.
> >It is not from trading the food that those rules come from.
> >-Jen
>
> I know this is off topic, but I just have to ask.
> For real? Just from the breath?
> I had a peanut allergic 3 yr old in my day care kids when I worked at a
center
> years ago.
> Luckily, he wasn't that bad off, cuz the kids ate it all around him and
he was
> always trying to sneak some from the other kids. I and the other
teacher sure
> had to watch him like a hawk on peanut butter days..or peanut
ingredients.
>

Just an observation; everything in nature evolves to it's most successful
form through the testing of naturally occurring genetic mutations (as
hobbyists we see this in the variety of behaviour niches our fish
occupy). Only recently (last 150 years?) mankind has become the sole
exception, turning 180 degrees around, making serious efforts to
accommodate genetic variances which appear to have no evolutionary
advantages (ie: allergies), while at the same time striving towards the
lowest common denominators (ie: rules, warning labels, product designs
etc aimed at the most ignorant).

At one extreme, I think most of us don't feel too much sympathy for
Darwin award winners (these are the people who through their own acts of
stupidity remove themselves from the genetic pool,
http://www.darwinawards.com/ ), and at the other extreme, we will go to
almost any effort to protect our children (who cannot protect
themselves).

It will probably get worst before it gets better - peanuts banned from
the state of California, perfume-tax to subsidize special schools, public
building ban on carpets, motorcycles outlawed etc etc ;~), and since I
think that as a society we will not have enough of a moral backbone to
make the right decisions, I hope that medical science can pull itself out
of the dark-ages and come up with some solutions (at least for the
allergies).

NetMax

[sophie]

In message >, Larry Blanchard
> writes
>In article >,
says...
>> Just an observation; everything in nature evolves to it's most successful
>> form through the testing of naturally occurring genetic mutations (as
>> hobbyists we see this in the variety of behaviour niches our fish
>> occupy). Only recently (last 150 years?) mankind has become the sole
>> exception, turning 180 degrees around, making serious efforts to
>> accommodate genetic variances which appear to have no evolutionary
>> advantages (ie: allergies), while at the same time striving towards the
>> lowest common denominators (ie: rules, warning labels, product designs
>> etc aimed at the most ignorant).
>>
>How about that! We agree on something :-).
>
>Although I am puzzled that I never had allergies at all until I passed
>60. Now I do. But they're fairly mild so don't bother me much. I
>wonder if "late onset" allergies are genetic or environmental?

both, according to the balance of medical opinion. You have a genetic
tendency to overreact to certain stimuli (allergies are, very
over-simplistically, a monstrous overreaction of the body's defences)
and it is believed that continued exposure to the stimulus/i will cause
you eventually to react. That's one mechanism, anyway.
--
sophie

[RedForeman ©®]

|| "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
||| Back when I was a kid, *stop laughing*.... Before the
||| administration got in a hissy about stuff like this, the 'parents'
||| were responsible for their children... not the school.. A parent
||| tells their child that this will happen if they trade food... if
||| they do, they learn the hard way... it wouldn't happen again,
||| that's for sure... the 'parents' were smart enough to tell the
||| child what happens when and if, and the child was smart enough to
||| know what not to do and what it could do...
||
|| My nephew is 2 1/2 years old. His peanut allergy is so severe that
|| he can go into anaphalactic shock (know that's spelled wrong) if the
|| kid next to him has peanut butter residue on his hands and they pick
|| up the same book. Would it be fair for her child to possibly die
|| because your kid didnt wash his hands after lunch?
||
|| For them, its not just a matter of them removing all peanut products
|| from their home/child but mom and dad cant even have something
|| cooked in peanut oil if they go out on a date.
||
|| dainerra

I'm coming from experience... I have allergies...but I deal with it, I don't
impose upon other peoples' lives because of it, and I don't want to be
imposed upon because of YOUR problems...

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

[FrugalEnvy]

(Vicki S) wrote in message >...
> >"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> >for him." That's what you get from a
> >government school.
>
> I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
> rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
> to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
> child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
> others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>
> Vicki
>
Hate to burst your bubble, here, but even private schools must conform
to the ADA or face federal lawsuit, and multi-system, fatal allergies
are covered by the ADA. You cannot force an allergic child to go to
private school or be homeschooled.
It's unduly harsh to expect a 5, 6 or 7 year old (or even older) to
know when another child's sticky peanut butter hands have used a
doorknob, and not to use it. Or to expect them to know when a table
or monkey bars, desk in a classroom, or the like, is covered with
peanut traces. It takes EXTREMELY SMALL AMOUNTS of peanut protein to
cause a potentially fatal-in-10-to-20-minutes reaction. Peanut
allergy is unique in that way - the amount that can cause fatality.
Do you really believe a child of 5 or 6 should die because of a
misjudgement? Do you really believe depriving other children of
peanut products for 5 out of 21 meals per week is comparable to
another child's right to not live in fear of death (not to mention the
fear on the part of the parents who send their kids out every day.)
Peanut allergic individuals are not "problem" kids. Peanut allergies
are increasing by leaps and bounds. So is asthma and other
'autoimmune' type of issues. The kids are likely 'canaries in the
well' and as a society maybe it's something in the way we manufacture
food, or the polluted air, or who knows what. Some say we are even
TOO CLEAN which does not explain why germ-exposed kids in daycare get
just as many of these peanut allergies.
Whatever the cause, it is certainy not the fault of these kids who are
afflicted. Try to have a little compassion.
As a society we reap what we sow, perhaps, but don't add to it by
saying, "If they are lax in judgement at 6, well by gum golly, they
can just die."
What kind of thinking adult would feels that way?
Just some thoughts for your consideration.

[Jim85CJ]

FrugalEnvy wrote:

> (Vicki S) wrote in message >...
>
>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>government school.
>>
>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>>others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>
>>Vicki
>>
>
> Hate to burst your bubble, here, but even private schools must conform
> to the ADA or face federal lawsuit, and multi-system, fatal allergies
> are covered by the ADA. You cannot force an allergic child to go to
> private school or be homeschooled.
> It's unduly harsh to expect a 5, 6 or 7 year old (or even older) to
> know when another child's sticky peanut butter hands have used a
> doorknob, and not to use it. Or to expect them to know when a table
> or monkey bars, desk in a classroom, or the like, is covered with
> peanut traces. It takes EXTREMELY SMALL AMOUNTS of peanut protein to
> cause a potentially fatal-in-10-to-20-minutes reaction. Peanut
> allergy is unique in that way - the amount that can cause fatality.
> Do you really believe a child of 5 or 6 should die because of a
> misjudgement? Do you really believe depriving other children of
> peanut products for 5 out of 21 meals per week is comparable to
> another child's right to not live in fear of death (not to mention the
> fear on the part of the parents who send their kids out every day.)
> Peanut allergic individuals are not "problem" kids. Peanut allergies
> are increasing by leaps and bounds. So is asthma and other
> 'autoimmune' type of issues. The kids are likely 'canaries in the
> well' and as a society maybe it's something in the way we manufacture
> food, or the polluted air, or who knows what. Some say we are even
> TOO CLEAN which does not explain why germ-exposed kids in daycare get
> just as many of these peanut allergies.
> Whatever the cause, it is certainy not the fault of these kids who are
> afflicted. Try to have a little compassion.
> As a society we reap what we sow, perhaps, but don't add to it by
> saying, "If they are lax in judgement at 6, well by gum golly, they
> can just die."
> What kind of thinking adult would feels that way?
> Just some thoughts for your consideration.

All the "normal" people should walk around in bubble suits so the
"special needs" people can walk around normally.

[sophie]

In message >, Jim85CJ
> writes
>
>
>FrugalEnvy wrote:
>
>> (Vicki S) wrote in message
>...
>>
>>>>"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
>>>>for him." That's what you get from a
>>>>government school.
>>>
>>>I would be telling the school where they can stick their peanutbutter
>>>rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send them
>>>to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of this
>>>child has not set down with their own child and told them not to ask for
>>>others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for them.
>>>
>>>Vicki
>>>
>> Hate to burst your bubble, here, but even private schools must
>>conform
>> to the ADA or face federal lawsuit, and multi-system, fatal allergies
>> are covered by the ADA. You cannot force an allergic child to go to
>> private school or be homeschooled.
>> It's unduly harsh to expect a 5, 6 or 7 year old (or even older) to
>> know when another child's sticky peanut butter hands have used a
>> doorknob, and not to use it. Or to expect them to know when a table
>> or monkey bars, desk in a classroom, or the like, is covered with
>> peanut traces. It takes EXTREMELY SMALL AMOUNTS of peanut protein to
>> cause a potentially fatal-in-10-to-20-minutes reaction. Peanut
>> allergy is unique in that way - the amount that can cause fatality.
>> Do you really believe a child of 5 or 6 should die because of a
>> misjudgement? Do you really believe depriving other children of
>> peanut products for 5 out of 21 meals per week is comparable to
>> another child's right to not live in fear of death (not to mention the
>> fear on the part of the parents who send their kids out every day.)
>> Peanut allergic individuals are not "problem" kids. Peanut allergies
>> are increasing by leaps and bounds. So is asthma and other
>> 'autoimmune' type of issues. The kids are likely 'canaries in the
>> well' and as a society maybe it's something in the way we manufacture
>> food, or the polluted air, or who knows what. Some say we are even
>> TOO CLEAN which does not explain why germ-exposed kids in daycare get
>> just as many of these peanut allergies.
>> Whatever the cause, it is certainy not the fault of these kids who are
>> afflicted. Try to have a little compassion.
>> As a society we reap what we sow, perhaps, but don't add to it by
>> saying, "If they are lax in judgement at 6, well by gum golly, they
>> can just die."
>> What kind of thinking adult would feels that way?
>> Just some thoughts for your consideration.
>
>All the "normal" people should walk around in bubble suits so the
>"special needs" people can walk around normally.

we get the wrong kind of fish in here for trolling.

--
sophie
netnanny of the day.

[Sue]

> All the "normal" people should walk around in bubble suits so the
> "special needs" people can walk around normally.

& what is normal???

[Jim85CJ]

I'll decide that and let you know...

Sue wrote:

>>All the "normal" people should walk around in bubble suits so the
>>"special needs" people can walk around normally.
>
>
> & what is normal???
>
>

[Billy]

"Vicki S" > wrote in message
...
|
| >"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
| >for him." That's what you get from a
| >government school.
|
| I would be telling the school where they can stick their
peanutbutter
| rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send
them
| to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of
this
| child has not set down with their own child and told them not to
ask for
| others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for
them.
|

It's the way our society has degraded. Parents don't want to be
parents anymore. They want others to make rules to protect them,
rather than being proactive and doing something about an issue
themselves. You're damn right I'd expect that kid to be kept home. If
he's in that much mortal danger, why are they sending him to a public
school? The bleeding-hearts can cry and sob all they want, but I will
never believe that 800 students and their families should be
inconvenienced so that one kid out of that 800 with a "health issue"
can be sent to school. If it were my kid, I wouldn't send him anyway,
how do I know some other kid didn't bring a PB cracker in his pocket?
If my child was in that much danger, I'd take steps to protect him,
not make the ADA and the school district and the government make new
rules so that I don't have to be a parent. We live in the age of the
victim, of irresponsibility, or blaming others. Nobody wants to do
anything.


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[Billy]

"Sue" > wrote in message
...
|
| > All the "normal" people should walk around in bubble suits so the
| > "special needs" people can walk around normally.
|
| & what is normal???
|
Anyone that can eat lunch without worrying about anaphylactic
shock.<g>


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[FrugalEnvy]

"> It's the way our society has degraded. Parents don't want to be
> parents anymore. They want others to make rules to protect them,
> rather than being proactive and doing something about an issue
> themselves. You're damn right I'd expect that kid to be kept home. If
> he's in that much mortal danger, why are they sending him to a public
> school? The bleeding-hearts can cry and sob all they want, but I will
> never believe that 800 students and their families should be
> inconvenienced so that one kid out of that 800 with a "health issue"
> can be sent to school. If it were my kid, I wouldn't send him anyway,
> how do I know some other kid didn't bring a PB cracker in his pocket?
> If my child was in that much danger, I'd take steps to protect him,
> not make the ADA and the school district and the government make new
> rules so that I don't have to be a parent. We live in the age of the
> victim, of irresponsibility, or blaming others. Nobody wants to do
> anything.
Whereas I would say it's idicative of the way our society has degraded
that people are so selfish that they cannot give up one item for one
meal 5 days out of 7 in order to protect the life of peanut allergic
children.
Have you ever heard of the pathology of superiority? Myopia,
allergies and the like are concentrated in gifted children
disproportionately. Are you saying a gifted child should not be
educated because he or she happens to have a peanut allergy? What a
waste of potential for society.
Parents of peanut allergic kids ARE taking serious steps to protect
their kids - by making sure the ADA is followed in the schools - and
by "parenting" and taking this responsibility - they get criticism
from the likes of you. If they weren't taking responsbility, not
stepping up and "parenting" - but just saying, What the hell,
hopefully Johnny won't die at school - but it's too hard for me to
take the heat from those ignorant parents out there who don't get this
- that would be a bad parent who doesn't want to bother.
You have it completely backwards. Do you think it's FUN for those
parents to step up and be derided, met with hostility, and be told
that peanut butter is more important than their children's lives?

[axemanchris]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Vicki S" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | >"EVERY FAMILY must change their lives
> | >for him." That's what you get from a
> | >government school.
> |
> | I would be telling the school where they can stick their
> peanutbutter
> | rule. My kids love PB&J sandwiches and as a parent would not send
> them
> | to school with something they would not eat. Seems the parent of
> this
> | child has not set down with their own child and told them not to
> ask for
> | others food, instead they are trying to make the school do it for
> them.
> |
>
> It's the way our society has degraded. Parents don't want to be
> parents anymore. They want others to make rules to protect them,
> rather than being proactive and doing something about an issue
> themselves. You're damn right I'd expect that kid to be kept home. If
> he's in that much mortal danger, why are they sending him to a public
> school? The bleeding-hearts can cry and sob all they want, but I will
> never believe that 800 students and their families should be
> inconvenienced so that one kid out of that 800 with a "health issue"
> can be sent to school. If it were my kid, I wouldn't send him anyway,
> how do I know some other kid didn't bring a PB cracker in his pocket?
> If my child was in that much danger, I'd take steps to protect him,
> not make the ADA and the school district and the government make new
> rules so that I don't have to be a parent. We live in the age of the
> victim, of irresponsibility, or blaming others. Nobody wants to do
> anything.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

In Canada many companies are now marketing complete lines of "safe to share"
and guaranteed peanut free products.... like popular chocolate bars & ice
cream. Not all, but many schools in our area are peanut free. I have never
heard of an incident involving a child being mean to another because they
can't eat peanut butter at school. They know they can have it at home.
Children have an extraordinary ability to care for one another. They don't
want to hurt their friends. Perhaps we parents can take some lessons from
them. It takes very little creativity to be able to come up with a
replacement for peanuts in a child's lunch. I can't believe people are so
selfish that a simple substitution in a lunch that could mean the difference
between an innocent child's life and death is such an issue. Aren't we
better than that?

Jacqui